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Implanted memories of Blue Skies

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posted on May, 16 2011 @ 07:09 AM
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reply to post by micpsi
 




www.nizkor.org...

As another example, in debate the burden of proof is placed on the affirmative team. As a final example, in most cases the burden of proof rests on those who claim something exists (such as Bigfoot, psychic powers, universals, and sense data).


This has been gone over countless times.

No one can show evidence of their existence. So we keep asking, because they keep claiming it to be true.




posted on May, 16 2011 @ 07:10 AM
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I can buy this theory.... maybe.

I have often wondered about adults, and recovered memories. This is slightly off topic, but may not be too far off.

A friend of mine is going through therapy to recover missing memories or time. Her therapist introduced the idea that she was sexually abused. And so my friend took it and ran with it, and has somehow come up with this memory of a brother who abused her. But the family is absolutely horrified, saying nothing ever happened. Her brother is crushed, because he says he never touched her and would never think of doing such a thing. They were close as a family, but since my friend began therapy to seek missing time .... she has decided that what her therapist concluded as correct. This destroyed the relationship she had with her entire family. The family wants to sue the therapist.

So what do we believe and can we trust our memories? Or do we trust what is introduced to us and do we believe this.



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 07:11 AM
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Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by Uncinus
 



Given this, and the fact that the main evidence for the chemtrail theory is people supposedly remembering bluer or clearer skies


I honestly don't get when people claim that the skies aren't clear blue anymore. I see clear blue skies all the time.

Maybe it isn't the clouds...maybe it is their eyes getting older and/or used to the blueness of the sky.



I am seeing blue skies as well, however, the sun's color and brightness has changed to me. I'm 25 years old.



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 07:17 AM
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reply to post by Uncinus
 


Although this chemtrail stuff isn't nearly within my confort zone, I have to S&F this thread for the sheer interest of the information it shares.

I already knew that memory was conditioned and dynamic, which if you think of it has tremendous implications. Besides the influence of time and the possibility of suggestion the article talks about, I read once in one of Edgar Morin's books that memory -event short-term - works according to your beliefs and preconceptions.

An example he gave: He once witnessed an accident between a car and a motorcycle. His memory was that it was the car driver's fault. He immediately ran to the scene, finding everyone OK, but when he offered himself to testify as a witness he came to realize (talking to both drivers) that his perception of the event he had witnessed just a few yards away was totally wrong and that in fact it was the motorcycle driver's fault. He also understood that his recognition of the motorcycle's supposed fragility regarding the car had conditioned him to remember the accident the other way around.

Since I read that I have payed attention to situations like these, and I observed this sort of thing happen many times.

One of the easiest situations to pay attention to is live sports phenomena, especially fouls. If you witness a game involving two teams you are indifferent to and then discuss two or three polemic decisions from the referee with both sides you will get astonishingly different perspectives, which will differ from your own. Sports is a good test field because people relate to their team in a belief-system perspective.

Other good examples are line calls in tennis matches when there is hawkeye technology. You can see some very surprised players when the hawkeye proves them wrong by a few inches, because although they were near and actually saw it, they perceived it wrong.

Still, as interesting as the research and facts on memory may be, trying to disprove chemtrails using this argument seems a bit far-fetched.



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 07:41 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 08:01 AM
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Originally posted by hypattia
reply to post by weedwhacker
 


HIGH-bypass turboFAN engine technologies cause the increase in more persistent contrails today, compared to the older LOW-bypass turboFAN and even older straight turboJET engines.

So then..... our memories of blue skies, are not faulty?





Its a lie, proofen to be one through all the research of alluminium increase and Barrium increase in the environment and much more. Come on, their are scientists, loads of scientists giving their spare time to the chemtrail research. You think all this thousands of people are all fools, suffering on false memory syndrom, or what? Were I live, the planes draw tiny tight circels into the air, circels so small and tight, that its on the edge of the curve a plane that large can fly. So why are they flying small tight circels, that behave like chemtrails? Come on, open your eyes and stop listening to lies from strangers!
edit on 16-5-2011 by CarlitosAmsel because: (no reason given)
Why should our memory of blue sky suddenly be faulty? Because some fools invented a false memory syndrom? Fly to areas were there is no spraying of Chemtrails, there you will see the blue sky exactly the way you remember it! Come on, sober up and look at it! Here are people who want to rob the last rest of our independence by robbing our memories, claiming, they are faulty !!! Once we accept such crap, one can do everything whit us that one wishes to do...- Do you want to become unreliable, on expert opinion dependent whores, even down to such details as is the color of the sky? What if tomorrow they poison our skys RED! Do you then want to sit in a corner telling yourself, you fool had mistakingly thought all your life, the sky is blue!? Have you lost all your pride? F*ck them Goons with their faulty memory syndrom !! Now go and scramble! With a little bit of luck and half an ounce brain you'll find some reasons to justifie lying down in that faulty memory crap and feel yourself avantgarde...-
edit on 16-5-2011 by CarlitosAmsel because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 08:45 AM
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Oh I get it. There never was blue skies and we are just imagining it from our childhood. The skies really are white now with just a tinge of blue and it always was like that! lol.



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 08:48 AM
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Originally posted by TheReturnisNear
Oh I get it. There never was blue skies and we are just imagining it from our childhood. The skies really are white now with just a tinge of blue and it always was like that! lol.


Yea, thats what it boils down to in the end...! The blue skies of your memory are false memory. The skies have never been different then what you see today ! Everybody born about 1985 or later, cant even remember different skies or different trails as those they see today... Its only us elder people who still remember and we, so some would like to have it, suffer on false memory syndrom...
RIGHT ON !! @@@1000TonBlocks@@@!!
edit on 16-5-2011 by CarlitosAmsel because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 09:03 AM
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reply to post by Uncinus
 


interesting post and will certainly give some food-for-thought to those who use the 'bluer skies' thing as evidence. Strong memories do tend to appear bigger, brighter and more colourful in your mind, especially if it is a memory associated with an emotianally charged moment.

I'm not one of the people who claim to remember bluer skies, however. It's never come in to the equation for me. Where does this thread leave me?

I find it interesting that people with, purportedly, photographic memories also remember the sky being bluer and sun being more yellow. Good post op and something to think about.



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 09:14 AM
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In my honest opinion, memory is one of those things that, well, what you have to think about is, what I am trying to say is.... Damn it, I forgot what I was going to say. Bad luck about Bin Laden huh!



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 09:24 AM
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Originally posted by CarlitosAmsel

Originally posted by hypattia
reply to post by weedwhacker
 


HIGH-bypass turboFAN engine technologies cause the increase in more persistent contrails today, compared to the older LOW-bypass turboFAN and even older straight turboJET engines.

So then..... our memories of blue skies, are not faulty?





Its a lie, proofen to be one through all the research of alluminium increase and Barrium increase in the environment and much more. Come on, their are scientists, loads of scientists giving their spare time to the chemtrail research. You think all this thousands of people are all fools, suffering on false memory syndrom, or what? Were I live, the planes draw tiny tight circels into the air, circels so small and tight, that its on the edge of the curve a plane that large can fly. So why are they flying small tight circels, that behave like chemtrails? Come on, open your eyes and stop listening to lies from strangers!
edit on 16-5-2011 by CarlitosAmsel because: (no reason given)
Why should our memory of blue sky suddenly be faulty? Because some fools invented a false memory syndrom? Fly to areas were there is no spraying of Chemtrails, there you will see the blue sky exactly the way you remember it! Come on, sober up and look at it! Here are people who want to rob the last rest of our independence by robbing our memories, claiming, they are faulty !!! Once we accept such crap, one can do everything whit us that one wishes to do...- Do you want to become unreliable, on expert opinion dependent whores, even down to such details as is the color of the sky? What if tomorrow they poison our skys RED! Do you then want to sit in a corner telling yourself, you fool had mistakingly thought all your life, the sky is blue!? Have you lost all your pride? F*ck them Goons with their faulty memory syndrom !! Now go and scramble! With a little bit of luck and half an ounce brain you'll find some reasons to justifie lying down in that faulty memory crap and feel yourself avantgarde...-
edit on 16-5-2011 by CarlitosAmsel because: (no reason given)


so, what have you done to fight the new world order today? if the situation is so dire and the experts, thousands of them apparently, all agree, then what are you doing sitting in front of your computer?! you should be in the streets rioting! if a massive, clandestine campaign to poison our skies and populace isn't enough to mobilize you, then what will it take? dying the sky red?

see, these chemtrail theories are fun, i watched 'what in the world are they spraying' too, but they always stop as soon as you turn the computer off. almost as if you didn't believe it in your heart, but only on the forums.

the simple fact is that human memory can sometimes be wrong and that in general air traffic frequency has increased drastically over the past half-century. those two things combined give the impression that something horrible is underfoot.

I hate persistent contrails and I wish that there were something we could do about it. like write letters to our congressmen and senators. oh, wait. i did that already. i've taken action in my life to draw attention to the pollution, both visual and chemical, in our skies. what have YOU done to combat this massive spraying campaign that you are convinced exists and threatens humanity's existence?



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 09:56 AM
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Originally posted by CarlitosAmsel
Its a lie, proofen to be one through all the research of alluminium increase and Barrium increase in the environment and much more. Come on, their are scientists, loads of scientists giving their spare time to the chemtrail research.


Really, who?

And where are the test results that show aluminum increase? Because all the ones I've seem have been incredibly mistaken in their methodology - like testing dirt instead of water.


Were I live, the planes draw tiny tight circels into the air, circels so small and tight, that its on the edge of the curve a plane that large can fly. So why are they flying small tight circels, that behave like chemtrails?


You live in Germany. Probably it's military jets practicing. Or possibly AWACS. I'm sure you get lots of straight lines as well from the regular traffic.



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 10:09 AM
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Originally posted by Alchemist13
Still, as interesting as the research and facts on memory may be, trying to disprove chemtrails using this argument seems a bit far-fetched.


It's not really going to disprove anything. It's just demonstrating the weakness of the main piece of evidence offered.

Another thing that has been demonstrated in this thread is the sheer variety in the recollections of people regarding when they first saw chemtrails.

A good way to debunk it would be to gather as many accounts of "when did you first see chemtrails", and see if they correlate. Initially the differences could be down to people being in different places. But eventually you'll get people in the same place saying they first saw them at different times, years different.

Say, Los Angeles (or SoCal in general), there must be tens of chemtrail believers in Los Angeles, maybe even a few hundred. What is the likelihood they all agree on when the spraying started. I'd put money on there being a ten year variation.

Which just goes to show you can't trust your memory (or if you like, you can't trust other people's memories).

Just find ten chemtrailers for the same place, and you'll have chemtrails debunked.



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 10:12 AM
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It is actually easy. One remembers the way one has marveld about the beauty of the BLUE in the sky, the dept of it, and that special kind of blue. Then look at todays skies and ask yourself, why it does not inspire to marvel about its beauty any more...- Where has the MAGIC of a pure blue sky gone? Why is it all of the sudden so dull and hardly worth looking at, while back then, a pure blue sky, speckled with a few snow withe fluffy clouds, the clouds white in front of the deep blue of the sky, was something to stand in aw of. Where have all does wonderous aspects of the sky gone, why is it suddenly nothing but a dull something that one only looks at to see how the weather will become? THE MAGIC OF OUR SKIES HAS VANISHED! WHERE HAS IT GONE?? That is all one has to realize. No need to ask yourself "Was the sky back then equaly blue as today, or was it a bit more blue, or maybe a bit less and so yes, how much more or lesse?" What are you, a Mosquitof*cker?
edit on 16-5-2011 by CarlitosAmsel because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 10:24 AM
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Originally posted by CarlitosAmsel
It is actually easy. One remembers the way one has marveld about the beauty of the BLUE in the sky, the dept of it, and that special kind of blue. Then look at todays skies and ask yourself, why it does not inspire to marvel about its beauty any more...- Where has the MAGIC of a pure blue sky gone? Why is it all of the sudden so dull and hardly worth looking at it all, while back then, the sky was something to stand in aw of. Where have all does wonderous aspects of the sky gone, why is it suddenly nothing but a dull something that one only looks at to see how the weather will become?


But the whole question here is if your memory of a sparkling blue sky is accurate. Did you move? What time period are you talking about.

I remember the summer of 1976 in England. Gloriously hot and sunny, blue skies for what seemed like forever. Then months of storms came. I was young then, and that summer of 1976 became fixed in my mind as "what summer should be like". England's subsequent weather sadly disappointed, but if I think back to "what was summer like as a child", I remember 1976, not the sad excuses for summer that came after it. My memory just fixed and idealized that time.

I moved, and I'm in Los Angeles now, near the sea. The sky is often deep blue, but it's also often a milky blue, due to the moisture in the air, from the proximity of the ocean, and the natural (and unnatural) smog of Los Angeles caused by the topology of the LA basin. The sky has not changed. I moved.

[Edit] Looking back at photos of summer 1976 (not mine), it's interesting that they don't show skies that look particularly different to skies of today:

www.flickr.com...
edit on 16-5-2011 by Uncinus because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 10:27 AM
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I am talking about the last 58 years, and yea, I moved. I have been all around the globe, and I have seen the skies of my childhood on some of the places...-

If you dont know what a clear blue sky looks like, without Chemtrails or Chemtrail Dust all over it, then I feel sorry for you, because then you realy missed something. Something even, that makes a part of your life.
edit on 16-5-2011 by CarlitosAmsel because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 10:28 AM
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reply to post by binkbonk
 

Yeah, it is called SMOG. Last week Jets flew over all day long making contrails and yet the sky remained clear blue. In my area SMOG doesn't happen much as it is a low population city.

Just go the flickr and enter contrail into the search. Plenty of good pics clearly showing them coming from the engines. These are photographers that careless about silly conspiracy theories.



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 10:29 AM
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Originally posted by CarlitosAmsel
I am talking about the last 58 years, and yea, I moved. I have been all around the globe, and I have seen the skies of my childhood on some of the places...-


So is that the answer to your question "what have the skies of our childhood gone?"

Have you gone back to the place of your childhood for a year to see what the skies are like there?



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 10:31 AM
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Originally posted by jaydeePNW
Just go the flickr and enter contrail into the search. Plenty of good pics clearly showing them coming from the engines. These are photographers that careless about silly conspiracy theories.


And note that many of those photos of contrails are on a nice blue sky.



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 10:31 AM
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No its not Smog. I am no fool. I can distinquish smog from Chemtrails and Chemtrail S*it all around the sky. You might be so simpleminded not tohave trained your eyes at such things, but dont tell me I am so stupid not to tell the difference between smog and Chemts*it. You are beginning to become insulting, you know that? You are insulting not only my intelligence but my humanity. Its a very sad thing if you are in such a state not being able to see whats going on above your head. Thats very sad, but if this is the case, I am not going to argue with you "Is it real, is it not?" You cant see it and so be it...-

You are so right @@@1000TonBlocks@@@ these are worthless shills. Lets leave them on their own.
edit on 16-5-2011 by CarlitosAmsel because: (no reason given)







 
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