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Implanted memories of Blue Skies

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posted on May, 15 2011 @ 11:41 PM
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For myself, I remember short contrails. I only started noticing long, persistent trails that spread out to form as a haze in the late 90's.
For all the contrail conspiracies, wouldn't the simplest answer be that there are more pollutants in the air now than there was before? Water vapour needs a particle to form around in order to condense and become a cloud. look it up. This from Wikipedia...

Cloud condensation nuclei or CCNs (also known as cloud seeds) are small particles (typically 0.2 µm, or 1/100 th the size of a cloud droplet [1]) about which cloud droplets coalesce. Water requires a non-gaseous surface to make the transition from a vapour to a liquid. In the atmosphere, this surface presents itself as tiny solid or liquid particles called CCNs.

en.wikipedia.org...

Or this,
espere.mpch-mainz.mpg.de...

Persistent contrails are simply the visible manifestation of air pollution. While no less important, air pollution is hardly a conspiracy.




posted on May, 16 2011 @ 12:14 AM
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you know, I went to Disney World once, but now that you mention it, it may have been just a big junk yard with lots of contraptions and stuff. I really don't trust my memory. In fact, it probably wasn't even my parents that took me. It could have been the neighbors that abducted me. I just can't remember. Damn, i hate when that happens. I may not have really graduated in 1979. I've just been writing it down for so long, I came to believe it! But what if I really didn't graduate at all? And my friend Steve? He didn't really have a 70's 'fro but was really bald! OMG! My whole life could be a false memory! I hope I don't sound like an utter idiot, because, well, I don't remember.



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 12:18 AM
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Well all i know is that there isnt that many con trials in Australia, the sky still is blue and when i look at maps of america i see contrails in weather photos more then i see them over here... so it just tells me that theres more planes flying now then there was 50 years ago..



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 12:23 AM
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I go back and forth on this whole "chem"trail topic. I can't say i agree with the OP in regards to implanted memories. One thing I will say is that - even if these trails are nothing more than vapor clouds caused by ordinary commercial jets it's a terrible pollution that uglies the skies. On the other hand - the aspect of these trails that seems suspicious to me is not the fact that they formed in the first place but rather the strange effects they produce.

If the debunkers are correct and these are just harmless clouds then please help me understand some of the below oddities:

1) "chem"trails appear to cast shadows of themselves that float in the sky next to the trail. I've never seen this effect while observing a conventional, short "con"trail.

2) After a heavy morning of "spaying" the sky turns to a white haze in the afternoon that produces giant prismatic halows around the sun along with "rainbow" clouds.

3) Some trails twist like a quarkscrew even while the source (jet) is still visible and it's not performing barrel-rolls and there's no break in the trail. I've never observed natural clouds twist like this.

The above questions are obviously rhetorical as I don't expect anyone to have convincing (or provable) explainations. My point rather is that I'm not so much swayed by the large plumes of lingering cloud-trails left by jets but rather the strange effects that accompany them.
I fully accept the notion that highbypass turbo fans produce larger trails than older designs and there certainly is more airtraffic now than ever before. What I have a harder time accepting are the strange anomalies that accompany these trails.

I live in the Northwestern United States. A turning point for me in my internal debate over "chem"trails vs "con"trails was the day I looked up and there before me were at least two layers of "chem"trails stacked one right above the other. Identical flightpaths other than altitude. Even stranger was the fact that they made a perfect U-turn, 180 degrees and proceeded off in the direction from which they had come. I did not witness the jets perform this manuver just the trails they left behind. Like crop dusters circling around and making a second pass. My biggest regret that day was not snapping a photo with my phone.

I believe the debunkers are right. They are right in that atmospheric vapors condense into clouds regardless of whether the vapors were put there by jet engines or nature. What I'm concerned with are the peripheral anomalies that aren't so easily explained.

Peace out



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 12:26 AM
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reply to post by Uncinus
 


I don't think this was the best study.. all the events listed except spilling the punch bowl probably happened to everyone sometime or another sometime within their childhood years. It seem more likely that people would maybe be confused.. than create an entire false memory. I don't I think this study could have been done better.



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 12:27 AM
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Originally posted by Vitres DeLaver

...Water vapour needs a particle to form around in order to condense and become a cloud. look it up. This from Wikipedia...

en.wikipedia.org...

Or this,
espere.mpch-mainz.mpg.de...


Like Barium?



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 12:29 AM
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Originally posted by Vitres DeLaver
For myself, I remember short contrails. I only started noticing long, persistent trails that spread out to form as a haze in the late 90's.
For all the contrail conspiracies, wouldn't the simplest answer be that there are more pollutants in the air now than there was before? Water vapour needs a particle to form around in order to condense and become a cloud. look it up. This from Wikipedia...

Cloud condensation nuclei or CCNs (also known as cloud seeds) are small particles (typically 0.2 µm, or 1/100 th the size of a cloud droplet [1]) about which cloud droplets coalesce. Water requires a non-gaseous surface to make the transition from a vapour to a liquid. In the atmosphere, this surface presents itself as tiny solid or liquid particles called CCNs.

en.wikipedia.org...

Or this,
espere.mpch-mainz.mpg.de...

Persistent contrails are simply the visible manifestation of air pollution. While no less important, air pollution is hardly a conspiracy.


This is the best explanation I've seen for "chemtrails".. besides the whole theres no such thing as chemtrails they are called persistant contrails.



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 12:34 AM
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reply to post by archetype_one
 


You didn't think there would be answers and explanations....



1) "chem"trails appear to cast shadows of themselves that float in the sky next to the trail. I've never seen this effect while observing a conventional, short "con"trail.


I have seen the shadows of even the "short" contrails....on the ground below me. From the cockpit. From my airplane. Also, those made by other airplanes. This, when the skies below were clear of clouds, and the Sun was up at a high angle, and the angle was right to see our own shadow.

The effect from the ground requires a less-than-perfectly clear airmass....the haze (could be high humidity, could be regular pollutants, smog, smoke) allow the shadow to show up, in "mid air" so to speak. It is a rare occurrence....and, a "short" contrail's shadow, cast like that, is just not as noticeable as the longer ones...width has a lot to do with it, too.





2) After a heavy morning of "spaying" the sky turns to a white haze in the afternoon that produces giant prismatic halows around the sun along with "rainbow" clouds.


That phenomenon has been seen, and recorded throughout history, long before airplanes were even invented. High cirrus clouds, in certain configurations, reflecting the Sunlight. Simple, you can Google it. "Sundogs" is one name...




3) Some trails twist like a quarkscrew even while the source (jet) is still visible and it's not performing barrel-rolls and there's no break in the trail. I've never observed natural clouds twist like this.


Two things: Wingtip vortices. (vortexes....spell check doesn't like the proper spelling). They can alter the appearance of the contrail, once it's formed, in some cases....it depends a lot on the winds, the up and down drafts that exist, at that time and place.

Also, the winds, already mentioned. Shearing forces, of the winds at work. Google for "cirrus clouds" and pick "Images".....you will see dozens of examples of the varitety of shapes that can form.



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 12:56 AM
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reply to post by weedwhacker
 


Lol - awesome. Thanks for those speedy and very rational replies to my questions : ) I feel much better. Ya know, the only theory about "chem"trails I would even be willing to entertain is that TPTB may be trying to shield us from monster solarflares by dumping reflective metals into the atmosphere - not that I know enough about that to know if it would even be an effective plan of action.

Curiosity fuels my interest in these topics, not paranoia. I'll accept your answers and move on.

Peace out
edit on 16-5-2011 by archetype_one because: Typo



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 01:00 AM
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edit on 16-5-2011 by archetype_one because: Double post



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 01:32 AM
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Originally posted by Uncinus
Someone once noted that if you accused someone of having no sense of humor, they would react more strongly than if you called them a racist. Everyone thinks they have a good sense of humor.

The same might be said for memory. Everyone think they have a great memory, and if you question their recollection of events, even their childhood recollection, you might as well have questioned their sanity.

But research shows that memories, especially childhood memories, can very easily be created with only simple suggestions. See Scientific American September 1997, vol 277 #3 pages 70-75


The researchers told the students that the study was about how people remember shared experiences differently. In addition to actual events reported by parents, each participant was given one false event, either an overnight hospitalization for a high fever and a possible ear infection, or a birthday party with pizza and a clown that supposedly happened at about the age of five. The parents confirmed that neither of these events actually took place.

Hyman found that students fully or partially recalled 84 percent of the true events in the first interview and 88 percent in the second interview. None of the participants recalled the false event during the first interview, but 20 percent said they remembered something about the false event in the second interview. One participant who had been exposed to the emergency hospitalization story later remembered a male doctor, a female nurse and a friend from church who came to visit at the hospital.

In another study, along with true events Hyman presented different false events, such as accidentally spilling a bowl of punch on the parents of the bride at a wedding reception or having to evacuate a grocery store when the overhead sprinkler systems erroneously activated. Again, none of the participants recalled the false event during the first interview, but 18 percent remembered something about it in the second interview.

For example, during the first interview, one participant, when asked about the fictitious wedding event, stated, "I have no clue. I have never heard that one before." In the second interview, the participant said, "It was an outdoor wedding, and I think we were running around and knocked something over like the punch bowl or something and made a big mess and of course got yelled at for it. "


There are many other studies on the way that your mind can create false memories.

Given this, and the fact that the main evidence for the chemtrail theory is people supposedly remembering bluer or clearer skies, and shorter contrails (to an extent that contradicts known science), wouldn't it be reasonable to question those memories? Is it not possible that those memories might have been prompted to some degree - either by an idealizing of blue skies from happy childhood summers and family photos, or from the suggestion of contrails being shorter, a suggestion raised or reinforced by a peer group.

How much do you trust your memory?


Because I am a freak of nature and have a stable long term memory. Technically my first memory was around 1 1/2ish. I always thought it was just a dream I remembered but found out that wasn't the case....

But I remember(26 atm) when I was 15ish and went with my dad to my grandparents place to remove a workbench(they where selling the house/property). I brought a friend at the time with to help lift the work bench and he commented on how blue the sky looked(it looked awesome at night too).

Guess what? It was only 15ish miles away from the small town we lived in at the time so no chemtrails responsible! My Guess is a combination of light pollution, automobile exhaust close to the ground(like in between the ground and beneath where planes fly[eeekkkkkk bad revelation have to think on this concept more]) and lack of trees around(was an old, dusty coal town).

If you want to see blue skies just try and go to a rural area on a nice day. Granted they seem to be rarer and rarer but bleh...



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 01:53 AM
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reply to post by binkbonk
 


Unfortunately that has become the norm.



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 02:13 AM
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This "false memory" game has been introduced into the public debate a couple of years ago. As I recall, it was at first used to protect sex offenders against the memory of child witnesses. It is essentially a NWO trick to detache us from ourselfs and the world to "play ball" with us, Surely, people remember one and the same event different on a subjectiv level. But if you bring five or ten or hunderd people together and you gather their memory about a certain event, the truth of the event will come forward.
edit on 16-5-2011 by CarlitosAmsel because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 02:18 AM
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Originally posted by CarlitosAmsel
This "false memory" game has been introduced into the public debate a couple of years ago. As I recall, it was at first used to protect sex offenders against the memory of child witnesses. It is essentially a NWO trick to detache us from ourselfs and the world to "play ball" with us, Surely, people remember one and the same event different on a subjectiv level. But if you bring five or ten or hunderd people together and you gather their memory about a certain event, the truth of the event will come forward.
edit on 16-5-2011 by CarlitosAmsel because: (no reason given)



Description of Appeal to Fear

The Appeal to Fear is a fallacy with the following pattern:

Y is presented (a claim that is intended to produce fear).
Therefore claim X is true (a claim that is generally, but need not be, related to Y in some manner).
This line of "reasoning" is fallacious because creating fear in people does not constitute evidence for a claim.

www.nizkor.org...

Any evidence?



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 02:32 AM
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Are you trying to tell the world that it is wrong to believe a claim just because it creates fear in us? Now, Jesus, this realy is a deep insight and we must get very scientific about it...-

In this thread we discuss the truthworthyness of memory, at the same time in another thread there is being discussed, that the greatest conspiracy theory of all is to make us believe in conspiracies. What I see is, that both just alienates us from ourselfs, confuses our existence beyond believe and furthers our helplessnes
edit on 16-5-2011 by CarlitosAmsel because: (no reason given)

edit on 16-5-2011 by CarlitosAmsel because: (no reason given)

edit on 16-5-2011 by CarlitosAmsel because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 02:38 AM
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Nope.

Just showing what your claim is without evidence.




posted on May, 16 2011 @ 02:53 AM
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I didn't want to believe in Chemtrails and attributed my faulty memory for remembering short contrails and clear blue skies. But now I have moved to a country in the developing world, where there are no contrails. I know their is air traffic up there, but I have not seen a single chemtrail in 2.5 years since I left the USA. I have been left with no options other than to realize that they regularly spray some chemical s**t over western countries.

So its just the opposite, people would rather believe that their memory is faulty than that their government has a not so secret project to gas them.



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 02:55 AM
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reply to post by kurokami
 

At what latitude do you reside?



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 02:56 AM
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The answer to this is quite simple:

I live in one of the sunniest countries on the planet - also a country which most people would consider to be third-world. We do not have chemtrails here (if we do, it is minor compared to the scale that America gets it).

Every day (except of course if it's rainy weather) I look up and see the most glorious blue skies, wispy little clouds - I see in fact what most people recall from earlier years.

In my case "seeing is really believing". No chemtrails = brilliant blue skies!



posted on May, 16 2011 @ 02:56 AM
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reply to post by shimmeringsilver73
 

At what latitude do you reside?




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