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Originally posted by itsthetooth
Very interesting, and I almost believe most of it. It least in the idea that it's possible. I have learned in my age you have to be open to understand without prejudice. When I was younger I wasn't like that. In your case I might of said to myself, I don't understand it therefore it cant be true. I learned the hard way that often times people are right on track and its at least worth a little effort to try to see other views. Frankly the whole idea of spirit in ghost realm scares the hell out of me trying to understand it. Spirit in the telepathic sense is easy to understand but also scary. I like your views, and I have nothing that says Greys didn't create us. It is an open possibility. Of course there questions, like why, and why put us on earth, and what did they get out of it. My only concern is the blue laminate. You are also saying they have somehow managed to figure out how to copy that master element that is so dear. Keep in mind that copying DNA again DOES NOT make you a creator, but a mad scientist. If they programmed that DNA manually then why do we also have 2nd hand lab alterations as well? Something is amiss here. As a joke, I like to tell hardcore religious folk that don't accept the facts of the DNA that what must have happened is GOD created us but at the last minute while dumping us off here on earth, he realized some changes needed to be made but didn't have his MASTER GOD DNA equipment readilly available so had to use his ACME pocket DNA kit which does not result in genuine appearance. They grays do have unfair abilities, by no means do I think they are the master creators of everything as a result. Your example of them having to alter us because of mind conflicts, is a contradiction in design. It's like saying they made us, just not originally how they wanted to. I guess there could be reasons, like they copied us from another race, again, making them not the creator. I find it very easy to find ways to dismiss things that most likely aren't the genuine creator. And it's not hard to do, because there would be not a single way to disprove the real thing.
edit on 15-5-2011 by itsthetooth because: syntax
Originally posted by itsthetooth
I have removed myself from the current beliefs of sin, and going to hell. I'm sorry but it all looks like gods plan to control us. Honestly, ask yourself, why would our creator be trying to control us? Because it's not easy for him? Or is it because he made us with flaws? Are you questioning his abilities? God and the creator are not one in the same to me. God was someone that tried to convince us (or we possibly misunderstood) that he was our creator. There are a plethora of things that make it so.
Have you spoke with these Aliens, and they told you they are really God.
They've done everything in their power to make us feel guilty and ashamed if we feel angry. No, you must learn to turn the other cheek... uh huh. What abusive dictator wouldn't love a population so weak and unwilling to lift a hand in it's own defense.
Originally posted by FreedomCommander
reply to post by itsthetooth
Your reasoning stands firm, however my belief that God is my Heavenly Father does not waver. I do believe that he's there but not to hurt or make afraid. If you have the chance, you might want to turn to another book, "The Book Of Mormon." The bible has been translated a lot of times, this one, only once.
*snip* (so I don't get another smack on the hand for excessive quoting)
Originally posted by iterationzero
reply to post by itsthetooth
It seems that your definition of "official" is vastly different from the norm.
Can you explain in more detail what you mean by the following two statements:
MTDNA only holds a very limited portion of all mothers of your lineage. A baseline was easy to determine on how many are present.
Limited how? Limited based on the fact that it's just matrilineal? And a baseline of what? And how many of what?
Limited in its just matrilineal.
The 50,000 year variance stems from us making assumptions in the length of lives. Living in the year 2011 there is simply no logical excuse that explains the missing time on earth.
No, the discrepancy was due to imprecise molecular dating methods. The method has been further refined and it's known to be closer to 200kya than 150kya. So there's no "missing time", it's just an imprecise measurement.
Sooo, your saying the year we live in now 2011 minus BC years adds up 200,000?
Biblical reference isn’t even close to explaining this.
Agreed. Literal interpretations of Genesis have done an inordinate amount of damage to the progress of our understanding of the world around us and our own evolution.
I agree but not on the idea that heaven is a spiritual place. It would appear to be more of a physical place. Another planet.
I think the people that wrote the Bible would disagree with your interpretation.
I know they would disagree, its the why I was trying to expose it. I find NOTHING that states it isn't physical.
This also explains a time difference as well as there is probably a different time line in the rotation of the planet. It could also explain the circadian rhythm disorder.
There's a pretty wide range of circadian rhythm disorders, and they're not shared by the entire population. If we had a genetic relation back to another planet, as you suggest, shouldn't a larger portion of the population, if not the entire population, be experiencing essentially the same disorder? It depends on other health factors and environment. At the same time thats not to say everyone on the home planet always gets perfect sleep. I think its more of an issue of percentage in contrast. It's not proof, just an observation.
If you have any doubts when someone says earth is not your home, I start an 8 thousand paragraph that wouldn't even be the beginning. In comparison to saying god was an alien I could present you with probably 12 profound elements that make it so. The difference here is how much we know about aliens. We know very little, probably 25 things about them. If I'm able to tie 12 of those to the start of our existence here on earth, that is truly amazing. The problem is that they are profound elements and not everyone believes in these things.
If it is true that we aren’t living on our home planet, our lives would be filled with adaptation, sickness and disease. We would also not know our purpose in life and spend a lot of time studying our planet as it would be new to us. The planet would seem to not fit us in many ways and we would probably rely greatly on doctors in our attempts to try to survive on the wrong planet. After careful thought, I realize it’s more than obvious this isn’t our home. People have mentioned this to me in the past and I just took in passing but never really thought about it in detail. It would appear that we have been placed in a compromising position. What has been done to us is cruelty in epic proportions.
I would argue that all of these "symptoms" that you're describing would be featured in any species, particularly one that has self-awareness. We're not the only organisms that experience "adaptation, sickness and disease". Most of the universe is incapable of sustaining life, and our own planet consists of a wide range of environments. It seems as though you're asserting that an organism that evolved on this planet would be adapted for every possible condition that exists on this planet. Basic understanding of the theory of evolution would suggest that this is not the case.
Of course its not the case. Cause of anything does not trigger adaptation. seriously your making me laugh on this part. Walk down the pharmacy isles in stores and look at how much we are adapting because of how sick we are. Make a list of sickness and disease for humans compared to animals. I would venture to say that humans get more their fair share. The day animal and plant life adopt medics and pharmaceuticals to survive is the day I will consider differently. In fact just take the "A's" of what we deal with by alphabet and compare. Otherwise you in for a long find, on the human side anyhow.
Adam and Eve were supposedly the first to start our race. If this is true than we would have a gross amount of defects in our genes, and we do. Over 4000 defect genes, 1000% above the normal observed amount compared to other life here on earth. Incest could be one cause for this. If not, then there had to be other people to start us as a new race. The bible makes no reference but there are missing pages. It hasn’t been mentioned before but gross defects could also stem from us not being on our correct planet and eating the correct diet. Humans will forever suffer while on earth. From what we understand about genetics, it would take a lot of people to start out a race, to avoid defects. It doesn’t matter; MTDNA tells us we didn’t start according to when the bible says we did. We are missing over 192,000 years of our lineage and we didn’t live it here on earth. Something is very wrong.
You seem to be at odds with yourself in this paragraph. First you're stating that the Bible must be wrong about how long we've been in existence because we know we've been here as H. sapiens for ca. 200k years. But then you try to say that we're "missing" 96% of our time here based on the young Earth creationist view that we've only been here since 6000 BC. We have a paleontological/archaeological record that is essentially free of gaps in terms of the evolution of modern humans. Why try to suggest that we were somewhere else for 192k years when we have evidence that we weren't?
Oh but we do have proof. Zacaria sitchian even points it out. Anyhow. There is contradictions even in the bible about able being sent to town after murdering his brother. It would appear there might have been other races here before, so it becomes an issue of race. Your choice, either god wasn't the creator, or he wasn't the creator.
Over three decades of study of the paranormal tell me that super powers of the mind, holds, TGA (amnesia), paralysis, telepathy, mind probing, thought control and emotion control, as well as other odd things seem to be normal and common place in reports. I accept most reports I have viewed as valid based on there being over 4 million of them, and they are consistent in details. If they are hallucinations then 4 million people around the globe that don’t know each other are all having the same hallucinations. Some reports are presented by hard core religious folks, as well as other avid non believers of paranormal life. Interviews from contacts that reveal a person in shambles, not understanding what, why, and how things have happened.
Can you cite sources for what you're claiming here? First, 4M reports spread out over, currently, 7B people living on this planet isn't much. Internal consistency isn't a substitute for real validation of the claims made in those reports. And you're only assuming that all of these people live in isolation from each other in terms of the content of those reports.
No some of them don't even speak the same language. It's not a percentage idea based on our count, its a percentage based on probability. Now just explain how they are all having the same hallucinations. Why not paul bunion, why not witches, why not wizards, why not monkeys, giants, talking pigs, or pixies?
As with all of them, the experience is never positive. There are also reports of people claiming contacts that seem happy with the outcome, yet have nothing positive to say about the details. It’s as though they were brain washed to believe it was a good experience, even though they explain invasive painful procedures that have nothing positive. I make this observation because there is simply never anything positive behind the details. If I have reviewed over 10,000 reports, I feel confident to say that ET is not our friend.
I’m finding stories from people claiming to be abducted that don’t believe in ET. At the same time I’m finding it hard to find an atheist claiming they were recently saved by Jesus. One author claims that religious folks are hallucinating. based on the fact they believe they will get to go to heaven, I can see the connection. People that get abducted get nothing positive out of the experience. It seems to add credibility to the reports. Anyone can lie or claim to believe in something not real. When there is nothing to gain from it, it could add validity.
I fail to see how this supports your thesis.
Well I honestly don't see it as a thesis. I think some people tell the truth. So even if only one out of 4 million was telling the truth, its real. Or do we ignore it because it was only one person? People don't lie, the person lies.
If Adam and Eve, or any others, were abducted and brought to earth, it surly fits the description of what aliens do, they abduct people. Adam and Eve not realizing what has happened to them also fits the third most common element known about aliens, they erase memory (TGA). TGA is real and must be aggressively recognized. TGA is also what has, and what will continue to keep most people from believing in other life. Interviews simply make the victim look stupid as they unravel an abduction story that appears to be riddled full of holes. It doesn’t mean people don’t lie or make up abductions, but it sure explains the holes of memory in credible cases. Some people get back there memory days later.
Which Adam and Eve are you referring to: Y-chromosome Adam and mitochondrial Eve or Biblical Adam and Eve? I'm assuming it's the former, because you've seemingly already stated that the Bible is wrong in terms of timing. Further, you've made the point that we can trace back to our matrilineal MRCA existing about 200kya. If that ancestor, along with the patrilineal MRCA, were brought to this planet, then why do we share as much DNA as we do with other species?
We don't. We have 2 less chromosomes than primates. Doesn't sound like much but that adds up to 3 million proteins, which is a lot. I think its so stupid how people miss whats going on with the comparison. Our DNA better be close, we are very similar.
This is because it’s a well known fact that exposing someone to familiar surroundings is the best chance at them getting back there memory.
Do you have a citation for this?
I don't have a link, but any search will do on amnesia, or any doctor will agree. Your kidding, you never heard this. I first new about this like 35 years ago. It hasn't changed.
Not all of it comes back in some cases. While this might sound like a sci-fi, we can induce large amounts of alcohol and get the same effect. There is also a PTSD clause in here as well. It’s a known fact that some victims of PTSD can exhibit TGA signs. Being abducted is no doubt a traumatic experience, but I don’t think that’s what causes this in abductions, it seems to be induced, or it’s a power.
It seems like you're asserting some kind of PTSD/TGA combination via racial memory here. Or are you asserting that we've all been abducted? This is a confusing paragraph in terms of your thesis.
Neither. Being abducted can cause TGA. Just like being in a bad car or motorcycle accident. While the symptoms are the same, I'm trying to clarify that its not how the TGA is being generated in an abduction, it's induced.
There are also sections of the bible that support this as well. One part, God is asking “Where are you?” Assuming a slight translation or writing error, it makes total sense if he had asked “Do you know where you are?” As though he was confirming that his memory had been erased. After much research, the old belief of god being all mighty and omnipotent and everything as unexplainable magic, has now turned to almost always explainable technology with ever so slightly rearranged wording.
Can you provide a citation for this as well as the original Hebrew for comparison? Assuming mistranslations is dubious when you're not providing a comparison of the modern vs. the original.
Sorry, it was actually a question I got off this site.
Other study I did was on life in general. It would appear that whoever or whatever created us, and all life, seems to have a pattern. Most things have two eyes, two ears, a brain, arms, legs, limbs etc. On a rare occasion we find similarities that are to close to explain. Evolving from primates has been ruled out. There are simply too many holes in the theory. If God was a space alien and not our real creator, I’m having one heck of a time finding a single clue that proves it wrong. I’m digging deep and can’t seem to find anything, but in more attempts seem to prove more that he was an alien.
What "study" have you done, precisely? Why has "evolving from primates" been ruled out? Common ancestry going back much much farther than 200kya has been proven genetically, so why would we, as beings from another planet, have such similar DNA to species that evolved on a totally different planet?
Well as you can see, this is why having 3 decades of looking at this could not be condensed into one page.
The biggest problem is evidence of transgression. There simply is none. A handful of bones have been presented but simply can't account for an entire race evolving. In addition to an excuse of a virus destroying remains, then destroying itself. Just the biggest bull I have ever heard. I'm sorry, I don't buy it. , if you agree we evolved, we did a sucky job. We are sick, weak, do nothing but adapt to survive, and don't fit in. Honestly we would be better to go back to primates. We are also missing two chromosomes so that means we DE - evolved. Those two are fused which is a lab technique. Probably the biggest hole is primates are still here. Why didn't they evolve. The day I can have sex with a primate and make a baby is the day evolution will stick. Until then I don't ever get the urge to swing on trees or throw poo.
This was actually the starting section that made me wonder about humans. Something seemed odd, in that almost every report about other life, always involved powers like telepathy. It seemed as though the creator had another common pattern amongst humanoid creations in general. They always seem to have telepathy. I wondered, why don’t humans. I pondered the idea that maybe we did and they were disabled or removed. We do have several vestigial organs and supposedly only use 10% of the capacity of our brains, but that is simply not proof. I wanted multiple things before I would call it proof. One thing funny about vestigial organs is that science is actually unsure in a lot of ways what their purpose is. In addition, some things could be labeled as such but might do a lot more than we know.
Many species have vestigial organs, and there is absolutely no scientific evidence that we only use 10% of our brains.
You are correct. We don't use 10% of our brains, we only use 10% of the capacity or ability of our brains. I know its hard to imagine that our big fat heads (and vestigial organs) do anything other then basic physical and basic mental work. If your right, then we are the only oddballs by comparison to noticed elements about other humanoid life. So what do you think the pineal gland does ?
I wanted to set some ground rules to get to the bottom of any findings. A creator should be a creator and not a destroyer. Too many times in the bible, there are events of god punishing us inhumanely. Killing mass amounts of people. It made no sense to me that a creator would do such a thing for ANY reason. It always falls back on respecting the design. We are of an intelligent design, more so than we realize.
I think you're totally overlooking the sociopolitical aspect of the Bible as a tool for control of a populace by an elite in power. The elite use the tenets of a religion to control the masses under threat of divine retribution. Why assume that the Bible is factually correct with regard to the powers of a creator when there is no objective evidence to support that?
Well its corrupt, but that doesn't mean its not fact.
I have absolute confidence believing whoever or whatever created us, knew exactly what they were doing and didn’t make a mistake. Religious views challenge this and use the excuse that god gave us free will but wanted us to conform to his desires. Another words he was smart enough to make us but not smart enough to make us exactly the way he wanted. I can’t accept this for some reason. Maybe it’s because we have over 5 million species on earth alone, and it just seems like very few if any errors were made. We might laugh or ridicule some designs but it’s all in the limits of our understanding.
You're presupposing the existence of a creator when there is no objective evidence for one. Very few errors were made? There are more extinct species than currently exist. How is that "very few errors"?
So dying is not normal?
One assumption I made, that I stand firm on, is the love of life. Whoever made us must have a fondness for life. All the species just on earth alone add up to a crazy amount. To make it more complicated, if you cut any of us open, there is more life inside, even in our blood, life made up of life, made up of more life. Stranger yet, is everything is given the ability to reproduce, to make ongoing life. There is no question about it, the creator loves life. Anytime god would punish us and kill people, it goes against the very idea of a creator. There also seems to be a large grace period since the last time god has made a physical appearance here on earth. I don’t think it’s because we are being perfect angels either. Believing god had good reason to ever punish us is also like saying we were the only mistake out of all the other life here. It just doesn’t make any sense.
In Sodom and Gamora, god appears to drop an atomic bomb on the city. It has the flash, the explosion, the same heat that turns the sand to glass and even the radiation. Why is our alleged creator dropping atomic bombs on us? It’s looking like he’s not our creator. Another observation is that god never showed his face anywhere in the bible. It’s as though he was hiding. From what, is the question. The best answer I could find is that we knew him, well his race anyhow. Showing his face could have restored memory to all of the TGA victims and expose his doings.
"Fire and brimstone" is idiomatic, not literal, based on the original text. In fact, nothing you mention regarding a nuclear weapon is mentioned in the Bible.
Do you honestly think they would have had the words nuclear weapon or atomic bomb back then. Are you not placing yourself in the right mindset when you honestly look at these things? Aside, its sounds like the wrong version. Where did you take ground to think or assume it's not literal?
Then the Lord rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the Lord out of heaven; And he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground. But his wife looked back from behind him, and she became a pillar of salt. ( ya shes toast )And Abraham gat up early in the morning to the place where he stood before the Lord: And he looked toward Sodom and Gomorrah, and toward all the land of the plain, and beheld, and, lo, the smoke of the country went up as the smoke of a furnace. And it came to pass, when God destroyed the cities of the plain, that God remembered Abraham, and sent Lot out of the midst of the overthrow, when he overthrew the cities in the which Lot dwelt.
No flash, no explosion, no "sand to glass", no radiation. And these are just the issues with the first 40% of your post. You seem to be at odds with yourself over whether the Bible is factually correct, allegorical, an "ancient alien hypothesis" kind of record, or factually incorrect. You're making an extraordinary claim, and that requires extraordinary evidence to support it. You're simply not meeting the burden of evidence and this is so far off of being "official" it's not even funny.
Originally posted by NightGypsy
A good point, DragonriderGal.
This is exactly why mankind has wandered this Earth in a state of confusion and dissolution....not understanding why we have such inner conflict.....
It's because what we've been taught makes no damn sense. Everything that has been shoved down our throats is a complete and total contradiction! It doesn't jive....it doesn't have a ring of truth. Only the truth can set us free from this turmoil.
People tell us we shouldn't question why so many horrible things happen in this world. We're not supposed to question God's ways. We're supposed to look at the world as a beautiful place.
The Earth is, indeed, beautiful, but the Earth with the human species populating it is not. This world has much more potential for beauty, but we have made it an ugly place. This world is not beautiful because we are a very confused, despondent species who has a higher intelligence, but who appears to have been manipulated and deceived by an outside force for reasons we have yet to understand.
Originally posted by itsthetooth
Adam and Eve were supposedly the first to start our race. If this is true than we would have a gross amount of defects in our genes, and we do.
1 When human beings began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them, 2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of humans were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose. 3 Then the LORD said, “My Spirit will not contend with humans forever, for they are mortal; their days will be a hundred and twenty years.”
4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.
5 The LORD saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time.