It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

The Spiritual Conspiracy - is that you can "Achieve" Enlightenment. Answer is the total opposite!

page: 2
8
<< 1   >>

log in

join
share:

posted on May, 14 2011 @ 10:32 PM
link   


Let me clarify. The answer is simple. Your either ARE, or your are NOT. Simple as that. There is no 'achieving' levels of enlightenment, and that is the conspiracy I believe in the spiritual realm that has been pushed into the public by the so called powers that be.


I had a teacher once that stated that it is simply a matter of opening a different set of eyes and that it could happen in an instant. The most enlightening experiences I've had is when I've been completely in the present moment and absolutely in a state of bliss. You are right. Education can form the framework for your mind to understand, but your mind has nothing to do with enlightenment. It is a state, an experience. I didn't really understand what my teacher had said until years later when I experienced what he meant and still I continued to chop wood and carry water.




posted on May, 14 2011 @ 11:18 PM
link   

Originally posted by Im a Marty
Yes I've had a kundalini experience a few times - those times were very intense, I can't explain it other than being aware of many realities at once, ........


Exactly. The trick is choosing to remain open to all that is around us in each moment, but, be balanced Here too. And there my friend is the great secret of 'enlightenment', just as you have been learning.


Originally posted by Im a Marty
What I was writing in the OP was something more simpler than trying to 'awaken the snake' and being more aware with this ability. It was more of a letting go and laughing and feeling cheery and just that moment.... that small moment when you realise everything in and around you does not make one ounce of difference in the grand scheme of things, and the feeling of bliss overwhelms you and have a grin on your face for a period of time, because all the bills, and stresses of life, work, family and what not - couldn't permeate that current state of being.


Yes.. I call that "Unreasonable Joy".. because it is Joy that is not Dependant on Any Stimulus.. you have no 'reason' to be so joy-filled. And you can choose it in any moment you desire.

Thank you for sharing and clarifying with me today.



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 12:29 AM
link   
reply to post by troubleshooter
 


Enlightenment has very little to do with God. Particularly the sky-God of scripture where clerics have despoiled with their dogmatic interpretations and distortions such as your post.

If what you say is all what is needed then why is the world the way it is and humans so out of balance, confused, and seeking something.

Your simplistic dogma is no longer accepted by intelligent people.

edit on 15-5-2011 by inforeal because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 12:55 AM
link   

Originally posted by inforeal
reply to post by troubleshooter
 


Enlightenment has very little to do with God. Particularly the sky-God of scripture where clerics have despoiled with their dogmatic interpretations and distortions such as your post.

If what you say is all what is needed then why is the world the way it is and humans so out of balance, confused, and seeking something.

Your simplistic dogma is no longer accepted by intelligent people.

edit on 15-5-2011 by inforeal because: (no reason given)


If it works for him, it works for him. If it doesn't work for you, it doesn't work for you.

'Course, if it actually worked for him, he wouldn't be here trying to validate himself by attacking others with it. 'Course, neither would you


"Seeking enlightenment" is the problem. What, exactly, are you seeking? Desiring to end your own desire is a kind of silly thing, when you think about it. Worrying for peace is another silly thing.

The OP is right in one way - all the books and teachers in the world won't help you. But he's also wrong; it's not a matter of "you have it or you don't" - it can be achieved. And it can be lost, and regained, and set aside, and picked up again.

The trick is acceptance. Taking things as they come. Knowing who you are, and why you are. it's an internal thing, and all the guru on the mountain can do for you is tell you who and why he is, and hope that you pick up on how he found that out about himself.



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 01:26 AM
link   
Its not that, its that there is a false enlightenment, and a true enlightenment.

And no, I don't mean in the "duality" sense, but rather, one seeks enlightenment through the ego, and the other seeks to deconstruct the ego, re-energise the spirit, activate the soul, and eventually work to evolve the being.
edit on 15-5-2011 by SystemResistor because: (no reason given)


Generally, enlightenment that is preached, is really to re-awaken those who were once higher beings, i.e. who had already evolved to such a level over the millions of lifetimes that they had already experienced in prior incarnations.

My advice? First step: Honesty. Second step: Empathy. Third Step: Courage.
edit on 15-5-2011 by SystemResistor because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 01:30 AM
link   
My ego is acting itself out through you. Because i am the all, then i am you arguing with myself in order to keep my self distracted to fully understand the ego. Enlightenment is nothing more then a word to distract yourself from yourself.

Figure that one out.



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 02:59 AM
link   

Originally posted by inforeal
Because people are not successful at striving for what they have come to believe is enlightenment doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. Many in this age who haven’t succeeded have become cynical that it doesn’t have a reality. But that is a symptom of the greatest veil to enlightenment—the ego. . . . I haven’t arrived at it therefore it must not exist!

The idea that enlightenment is easy or should be effortless is another absurd notion coming out of this new-age, but nothing is further from the truth.

How could the highest condition of consciousness—enlightenment—not be difficult to attain?

It takes tremendous effort to arrive at it and those who say otherwise are the conspirators, not the notion that it exists.


Both are true, both are false... People spend so much time obsessing over their ego(which is merely ones individual space/time perspective) that they ignore the general concept of super ego's and Id(I am really starting to think Freud ripped off rationalism and bastardized with irrational drug induced hysteria nonsense).

Personally, spiritual "enlightenment" seems like a fools task. So many reach for it only to be burned by the fires of zealotry. Seeking greater degrees of general awareness by self control and self evaluation of ones appetites, spirit and reason is far more noble. This whole business of spiritual enlightenment, seeking to know what others do not for the sake of it; just seems incredibly vain and self defeating.
edit on 15-5-2011 by korathin because: added the word "be"



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 03:00 AM
link   
reply to post by TheWalkingFox
 


I am and didn’t validate anything but my own opinion, having nothing to do with any holy book, so for you to stupidly put me in the box with this guy is proof of your own ignorance.



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 03:22 AM
link   
You do realize the very fact of you TRYING to reach enlightenment so hard for no other than your ego...is quite literally going to keep you AWAY from Enlightenment correct?
The very act of searching for no other than fueling the go is going to take you every bit further away from it.
Seek from within, for the betterment of yourself. If it happens it happens, if not...then it doesn't.

LIVE IN THE PRESENT. =]



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 03:29 AM
link   
reply to post by onequestion
 


The ego does have that function, however, it is like a computer system. If you are pro then you can basically re-wire or re-engineer it, deconstruct it, modify it etc etc. I recommend that you simply find a way to disconnect it, I have done so, usually like pulling out pieces of spaghetti, its as if my being is connected by all these wires and plugs. There are also all kinds of portals, as well as small kinds of "machines" and devices.
edit on 15-5-2011 by SystemResistor because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 03:32 AM
link   
reply to post by kaskade
 


Then what was Buddha doing for 6 years wondering and seeking, playing Chinese checkers?



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 03:40 AM
link   
Krishnamurti has said this for years!

Jiddu Krishnamurti talk on Enlightenment

Question: What is enlightenment?
Jiddu Krishnamurti -To be enlightened about what? Please let us be rational. For instance, one is enlightened about one's relationship with another. That is, one has understood that one's relationship with another is based on one's image about the other, however intimate. That image has been put together through many years of constant reaction, indifference, comfort, nagging, all that goes on between man and woman.

So the relationship is between the two images. That is what one calls relationship. Now, if one perceives the truth of this, one says one is enlightened about it. Or, one is enlightened about violence; one sees clearly, without distortion, the whole movement of violence. Or one sees how sorrow arises, and the ending of sorrow is that one is enlightened about it. But we do not mean that. We mean something else: "I am enlightened, I will tell you about it, come to me".

If we really go into what enlightenment, illumination, the voice of truth, is, then we must go carefully into the question of time. The so-called enlightened people have said that you come to it through time, gradually, life after life - if you believe in reincarnation - until you come to the point when you are enlightened - about everything.

They say it is a gradual process of experience, knowledge, a constant movement from the past to the present and the future, a cycle. Now, is enlightenment, the ultimate thing, a matter of time? Is it? Is it a gradual process, which means a process in time, the process of evolution, the gradual becoming? We must understand the nature of time, not chronological time, but the psychological structure which has accepted time: "I hope ultimately to get there". The desire, which is part of hope, says, "I will ultimately get there".

The so-called enlightened people are not enlightened, for the moment they say, "I am enlightened", they are not. That is their vanity. It is like a man saying, "I am really humble" - when a man says that you know what he is. Real humility is not the opposite of vanity. When vanity ends the other is. Those who have said they are enlightened, say you must attain it, step by step, practise this, do that, don't do this; become my pupil, I'll tell you what to do, I'll give you an Indian name, or a new Christian name, and so on. And you, an irrational human being, accept this nonsense. So you ask, what is that supreme enlightenment? A mind that has no conflict, no sense of striving, of going, moving and achieving.

One must understand this question of psychological time, the constant becoming, or not becoming - which are the same. When that becoming is rooted in the mind it conditions all your thinking, all your activity; then it is a matter of using time as a means of achieving. But, is there such a thing as becoming? "I am violent, I will be non-violent". That means that becoming is an idea. I am violent and I project the idea of not being violent, so I create duality; the violent and non-violent, and so there is conflict. Or I say, "I must control myself, I must suppress, I must analyse, I must go to a psychologist, I must have a psycho-therapist".

Without creating the opposite the fact is violence. The fact. The non-violence is non-fact. If you see the truth that if I am violent, the concept of non-violence brings about this conflict between the opposites, the non-fact has no value. Now to observe the whole movement of violence, anger, jealousy, hatred, competition, imitation, conformity, do so without any direction, without any motive. If you do that, there is the end of violence, which is immediate perception and action.

So, one can see that illumination, the sense of ultimate reality, is not of time. This goes against the whole psychology of the religious world, the Christians with their souls, with their saviours, with their ultimate.

Perception is action, not perception, interval, then action. In the interval there arises the idea. The mind, the brain, the whole human nervous and psychological structure, can be free of this burden of a million years of time so that you see something clearly and therefore that action is invariably immediate. That action will be rational, not irrational. That action can be explained logically, sanely.

That ultimate thing, which is truth, is not to be achieved through time. It can never be achieved; it is there; or it is not there.



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 04:56 AM
link   
Well done padawan.
You have found the awnser



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 09:53 AM
link   
reply to post by korathin
 


You make some decent points regarding the id and superego, but enlightenment is for those who believe in its reality not those who don’t.

That’s why generally schools, such as Sufism that seek enlightenment, don’t proselytize much.

Regarding your words:


this whole business of spiritual enlightenment, seeking to know what others do not for the sake of it; just seems incredibly vain and self defeating.

This statement is problematic imo because people who seek enlightenment are not doing it for power or to know something others don’t know, but to realize their own inner light. Those who have the attitude you are referring to are unlikely to succeed because their intentions are not correct.

There is an old Sufi saying:


Cultivate the manners of a dervish then wear a stylish cap!



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 11:40 AM
link   
reply to post by inforeal
 





Then what was Buddha doing for 6 years wondering and seeking, playing Chinese checkers?


Simple answer: working on getting out of his own way.



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 12:13 PM
link   
It is said that the Primeval man could walk upright as men now do, backwards or forwards as he pleased, and he could also roll over and over at a great pace, turning on his four hands and four feet, eight in all, like tumblers going over and over with their legs in the air; this was when he wanted to run fast …

Terrible was their might and strength, and the thoughts of their hearts were great, and they made an attack upon the gods ... Doubt reigned in the celestial councils. Should they kill them and annihilate the race with thunderbolts, as they had done the giants, then there would be an end of the sacrifices and worship which men offered to them; but, on the other hand, the gods could not suffer their insolence to be unrestrained.

At last, after a good deal of reflection, Zeus discovered a way. He said: 'I have a plan which will humble their pride and improve their manners; men shall continue to exist, but I will cut them in two and then they will be diminished in strength and increased in numbers; this will have the advantage of making them more profitable to us. They shall walk upright on two legs, and if they continue insolent and will not be quiet, I will split them again and they shall hop about on a single leg.' "



posted on May, 18 2011 @ 12:23 PM
link   

Originally posted by dizziedame
reply to post by Im a Marty
 


. . . I create my own music and allow it to clean my mind of all the clutter.

I make music on my instrument with my eyes closed and when I finish a session I feel like I am being let down softly from where ever it was that my mind went.

Best wishes on your journey.



Wow - beautiful words like a little poem.
You trasnported me and I don't even create my own music.
You have a lyrical and beautiful way with words I hope you create more then music . . .
edit on 18-5-2011 by TheBirdisDone because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 18 2011 @ 12:54 PM
link   
reply to post by 1Starman
 


What if we were all together enlightened about ourselves and eachother.





top topics



 
8
<< 1   >>

log in

join