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Risking One's Neck for Better Grog: Mutinies Reveal Tipping Points for Collective Unrest

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posted on May, 14 2011 @ 03:26 PM
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Risking One's Neck for Better Grog: Mutinies Reveal Tipping Points for Collective Unrest


www.sciencedaily.com

But mutinies continue to occur, especially in the armed forces of developing nations. And mutinies have similarities to other types of rebellions, including worker strikes, riots, prison rebellions and political uprisings.

University of Washington sociologists are studying naval records of mutinies as a way to see how modern-day ill-treatment toward subordinates can lead to violence.

...mutinies emerged because of unpaid and delinquent wages or excessive punishment.

Pfaff, an expert on collective action -- how groups of people work together toward a common goal. Previously, he's stu
(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on May, 14 2011 @ 03:26 PM
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I'm a little surprised by this article in one matter:


The work is funded by the U.S. Air Force Office of Scientific Research and by the Harry Frank Guggenheim Foundation, which funds research on violence, aggression and dominance.

The sociologists are focusing on Royal Navy mutinies from 1740-1820, a period in which Great Britain achieved global dominance on the shoulders of her navy.


This should also be brought to the attention of the members of Congress, the Pres, and the Supreme Court.

There is unbridled civil disturbance going on all over the GLOBE, not simply and only in the good 'ole USA.

Will they seek to make things better before this "tipping point" is reached? Will they do what's necessary to avoid it?

As noted, it takes a LOT of sustained discomfot/unhappiness/inadequacy of care provided by the authorities for the lorded-over to finally shout "ENOUGH'!!

But it DOES happen.
Evidence can be found on any world newspage, in many, many aspects of United States society.

I would like ATS members to think about and contribute their thoughts - what would it take for YOU to say
"Enough" "I've had it", and start organizing a grassroots rebeliion...

I often see, and remark myself, that many on this site discuss "it could be done - it will take everyone" -
SO...
What would be your personal scenario? Your tipping point?

I will share mine if others are willing to discuss this thoughtfully and sincerely...
and if anyone is monitoring ATS for signs of that tipping point, that critical mass, we might just be able to make a diff ... maybe.


www.sciencedaily.com
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on May, 14 2011 @ 03:38 PM
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I think they just want to find the bare minimum in terms of treatment we will tolerate so they can provide that.

Ideally for them, (any employer) you pay the absolute minimum you can to keep people working. This isnt good for us. Its good for them. Also, insight into who the people who are willing to be the "ring leader" is, can lead to them targeting and eliminating people with that psychology so that they can lower the standards of treatment even more.

The only good thing in this for "us" the worlds little people, is that as they move towards globalization, the distribution of wages and resources will necessarily thin out over the first world, while increasing to some degree in the the third world, initially. But as the population grows, it will eventually begin to go down hill for all of us.

This, in short, predicts that there will be a global mutiny at some point. IF they dont control the population so that they can keep rations at just above mutiny levels.

Edit to add,

You can also see this predisposition to "mutiny" in many of the worlds revolutions. Russia, France, etc. Jared Diamond pointed out in Collapse the role hunger played in the genocide in Rwanda, too.
edit on 14-5-2011 by Illusionsaregrander because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 14 2011 @ 03:54 PM
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reply to post by Illusionsaregrander
 





insight into who the people who are willing to be the "ring leader" is, can lead to them targeting and eliminating people with that psychology so that they can lower the standards of treatment even more.


I certainly know from experience that this is true at a corporate level. I was working as a first-level supervisor, and when the staff I for whom I was responsibile insofar as delegating workload, timing issues for tasks, and other various changes to "policy" and "expectations" as handed down from on high finally became rattled enough to gripe, it was I who heard them out and then carried their complaints upward.

I was priveleged (?) to be party to upper management discussions prior to addressing these "inferiors" problems in the so-called "open door" hearings of their grievances. I was not a corporate veteran - I'd had no part or experience in any corporation of that size (a major publicly traded industry) prior to having this position. I happened to agree with the workforce, that their protests were reasonable, and that management was not addressing those grievances with respect and dignity for those individuals.

One manager responded to my suggestion for redress and compromise that "The thing is, we must absolutely at all costs PREVENT them forming a union."

I was soon after "disciplined" and pretty much run out of the business, suddenly a paraiah with the uppers who had been previously championing me and "grooming" me and "mentoring" me for further promotions.

That's all I will say about that - but I agree with you completely. As the article states, it requires a "ring-leader" who is willing to risk their neck. We call them "whistle-blowers".

"Open door policies" are, in my opinon, an invitation to come and complain to whomever, and then be told what the CEO says. Management above my level were ready to deliver bad news and exploitative management because that was what they were TOLD TO DO.
I have stated before that I simply refused, because I thought what they were doing was hypocritical and disrespectful....and.....Poof! End of my managerial support.

But you know what? When I left that job, the staff - the front-line staff on whom that business depended - wished me well and all the best and blessings and godspeeds and thank yous like mad. Hugs, tears, the whole shebang. A lot of those workers had been there for 20 years or even longer, and seen one after another "manager" come and go in their climb up the ladder. They knew they had power. THey also knew that the "open door policy" was a joke. Sure you can say what you want, but NOTHING will be done about it.

End of my tenure as a whistle-blower. End of my tenure as a change-agent (my profession by training). End of my efforts to make a difference at the ground level on behalf of those who, were they to all call in sick on the same day, would have shut that operation down completely and immediately.

sigh....



posted on May, 14 2011 @ 03:57 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 


Dearest, WildTimes. Thank you for the post. Super important stuff. I can't tell you how excited I am to to have the link to this article. I never ever thought to look directly at mutinies.

Myself and others have been on 3 different threads for the past few weeks trying to formulate some conception of the control system. Your link and thread seem to fit right in and I know the others will be excited, too so I am going to link up your thread so they can see your stuff.

If I may be so bold I think that you might appreciate the information on the other threads as well; things are getting pretty interesting...

Take Back The Noosphere!
www.abovetopsecret.com...

It's our future, what do you want to see?
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Oprah Winfrey, The Eighth Sphere and the Secret War for Your Soul,
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Thanks again.



posted on May, 14 2011 @ 04:01 PM
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An additional thought - regarding the fact that the events they are studying happened a little less than 200 years ago and that some might say "ancient history", who cares?

Sure, those were our 6x or 8x-great-grandparents (or what have you), but....if people can and do live 100 years, from that point of view, it's not long ago at all. It's two consecutive lifetimes. And that's not long at all, in terms of history.

The USA is still a very young country - in terms of history, almost an "experiment", just as it was when the Puritans first decided to come here and bring their "grand experiment" to the New World. The USA is still a fledgling in terms of some cultures, though an upstart extraordinaire and with undeniable successes in many, or at least some, areas.



posted on May, 14 2011 @ 04:04 PM
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Thanks!! I recognize both of you from threads I have followed closely - and will definitely have a looksee! I can't tell you how priveleged that makes me feel in this online community! I'm pretty new here, but I think hard on these things.

I bow to those of you who speak so eruditely about so many important issues - and you know who you are!



posted on May, 14 2011 @ 04:07 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 


Yeah. I studied business for three years before switching to philosophy because I couldnt stomach the ethics.

The bad thing about human nature is, like the article says, that people want better, but they want someone else to pay the price for it. So yeah, everyone hugged and wished you Godspeed, and they would have gladly taken any benefits you could have won them, but they wouldnt pay the price for getting better for everyone by collectively rising up.

Humans beings are nasty and selfish on the whole. And the people at the bottom get what they deserve for the most part, because their selfishness and self interest keeps them from actually helping the more selfless minority who will actually fight for the benefit of the whole group, and even risk themselves to do so.

In natural selection terms, the more altruistic and group oriented minority should probably just abandon the top and the bottom to each other, and let them cannibalize one another, and form their own groups.

I also figured out a while back that the reason we have sociopathic leaders is because of the nasty selfishness of those at the bottom. They want brutal people to lead them, who will kill off their enemies and plunder their resources, hoping for some crumbs to fall down to them. (Trickle down economics) It almost serves them right that what really ends up happening is that they are exploited themselves by the same people they hope will brutalize their competitors.

Ah well. I used to feel a great deal of pity for the common man, but the more I know, the more I realize that they are not so different on the whole from those who exploit them.



posted on May, 14 2011 @ 04:32 PM
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Very interesting thoughts. I will consider them further -
it certainly seems that fighting for either side as little to no effect unless you are in the upper echelons, with a few exceptions like Erin Brokovitch and those other bootstrap heroes who manged to bring the bad guys to their knees.

It's hard, and largely thankless work. It's discouraging, and exhausting. I became aware of two things:

A) I became so invested in the hardships of others that I began to suffer for it myself, emotionally and in terms of energy and self-care.

B) It's perhaps just as important to help individuals to find a way (given what they have and what is actually available to them) to transform their lives into versions less despairing than to try to change the entire system. Systems at a macro level are really really difficult to change. Personal systems (behavior of individuals) is also very difficult, but more possible. In the end the vast majority of us can only control one person, and that's ourselves.

So, when I had lost count of the people whose lives I lightened up a little bit, I decided to focus instead on my immediate loved ones and on my own growth. If I can move around on the planet making people laugh, and perhaps rekindle a sense of empowerment and hope to those who are despairing, even one encounter at a time, I will have lived a good life.

If I Could Stop One Heart From Breaking

IF I can stop one heart from breaking,
I shall not live in vain;
If I can ease one life the aching,
Or cool one pain,
Or help one fainting robin
Unto his nest again,
I shall not live in vain.

Emily Dickinson


That may be all I will ever accomplish, aside from raising two great kids, one male, one female, and contributing to the fleeting joy of those among whom I live and move. If it is, well, I'll wish I had been a major hero, but I'll be able to sleep at night.



posted on May, 14 2011 @ 04:44 PM
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I can't recall the specific study, but years ago I read a paper charting patterns in the circumstances which lead to revolution. What was found, again and again, was that a population will indefinitely endure ever-worsening conditions.

However, should living conditions improve for a period, only to be followed by further decline, a revolt is inevitable.

To my mind, a more productive way to address the difficult circumstances imposed by a corrupt and ethically bankrupt power structure is to create an alternative to that structure. Rather than a revolt which destroys valuable infrastructure, and involves all sorts of unsavory excesses on the part of rulers and rebels alike, simply withdraw from the system.

What would this look like to me? No official payrolls, barter-based local economies, artisinal products, everyone involved in food production, no banks, locally based utilities, parents participating directly in their children's education, and symbiotic community relationships.

Global information exchange, local everything else.

Want to be a rebel? Become as self-sufficient as possible, and offer assistance to all those who would like to do the same.
edit on 14-5-2011 by mistermonculous because: Woot.



posted on May, 14 2011 @ 04:57 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 


Reciprocal Altruism.

Find people who practice it, and make yourself a community of them, and dont waste your time on those who do not practice it.

Natural selection is. Its just a fact. You can say God made it a fact, or you can say nature made it a fact. But either way, we can see it at work everywhere. And its a really bad strategy to sacrifice yourself for those who will not reciprocate it.

Clinging to the bosom of your family is a very good plan. At some point in time, the current dominating exploitative strategy is going to come to a crashing end. And when it does, its MY hope that the more cooperative, more altruistic, less exploitative survive because their nature makes them help one another.

Just dont waste your efforts on the wrong people. It is an unfortunate? Fortunate? truth that the qualities SOME of us value are not the same qualities natural selection chooses. An example.

www.cliftonuu.org...


In his profound and stirring book, Man’s Search for Meaning, Holocaust concentration
camp survivor Viktor Frankl wrote;

On the average, only those prisoners could keep alive who, after years of trekking
from camp to camp, had lost all scruples in their fight for existence; they were
prepared to use every means, honest and otherwise, even brutal force, theft, and
betrayal of their friends, in order to save themselves. We who have come back, by
the aid of many lucky chances or miracles—whatever one may choose to call
them—we know: the best of us did not return.[19]


Many spiritual people long for a day when humanity is this shining thing, this kinder, more equitable, more humane thing. We actually have to select for that, if thats what we want. Because nature has other ideas. However nature also equipped us with intelligence, and we can choose to mold ourselves in a more human fashion.

It does mean, though, that we have to discriminate against those who do NOT carry the quality of reciprocal altruism.

I know it sounds harsh. But I have spent over a decade on the subject, and I wouldnt be saying it if the facts did not back it up.


edit on 14-5-2011 by Illusionsaregrander because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 14 2011 @ 05:12 PM
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reply to post by mistermonculous
 


YESSS!!!! I've been saying that for years. YEARS!!!

Abolish distance trading.

Everyone leave the system. Live in small villages where every member contributes to the best of their ability, and in return, everyone sees to it that none are destitute. Barter. Trade skills. Trade goods. Have common gardens. Have enough people with enough skills that all needs are met without need for a giant oversight entity (funny to me how "oversight" has two such different meanings: a) overlooked, b) the process of looking over--- or perhaps I am using it incorrectly?)...

A village, that raises skilled children who are educated by their educated elders. How I would love to do that. It's the getting out of the grid/the system that's so hard to bring from dream to fruition.

If anyone at all has followed my posts from thread to thread, it's a theme they might have noticed...

If anyone wants to start local ATS chapter villages -- off the mainstream system -- let me know. There are survivalist groups and "communes" in almost every state...I often think that's where I would head if the SHTF...

And I wonder myself - how far would I have to be pushed to do it? Most of my social contacts already think I'm a bit "off"...an idealistic dreamer. I did find 3 other ATS members who indicated interest in local chapter formation - but none of us live within range for less than a day's drive, and even further.



posted on May, 14 2011 @ 05:15 PM
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And its a really bad strategy to sacrifice yourself for those who will not reciprocate it.
reply to post by Illusionsaregrander
 


Heh. Yeah, boundaries. Personal boundaries. NOT my strongest suit. Boy howdy, you haven't any idea how far I let it go, either. And I won't tell you....let's say I should have a doctorate from the School of Hard Knocks.

So, where do I find the others? I didn't find them after all in the "institutions" of social workers. A few, yes, but they burned out just like I did. Lots of the ones who stayed became....well....something other than the idealistic change agents they had started out to be.



posted on May, 14 2011 @ 05:33 PM
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Originally posted by wildtimes

Heh. Yeah, boundaries. Personal boundaries. NOT my strongest suit. Boy howdy, you haven't any idea how far I let it go, either. And I won't tell you....let's say I should have a doctorate from the School of Hard Knocks.


Im not surprised. It was clear in your story about fighting the big guys in your company.



Originally posted by wildtimes
So, where do I find the others? I didn't find them after all in the "institutions" of social workers. A few, yes, but they burned out just like I did. Lots of the ones who stayed became....well....something other than the idealistic change agents they had started out to be.



Its because of what I said earlier, that probably sounded awful to your kind ears. The people at the bottom are usually not that different in quality from the people at the top. They are still predators, just not as successful at it.

Key to success in finding other reciprocal altruists. Stop listening to people. "Users" "cheaters" "predators" whatever you want to call them are masters of sounding good. Because the end justifies the means to them. And its all about them. They will be victims, heroes, whatever you want them to be. Whatever will work to get YOU to work for them.

Start watching people. Especially, watch how they treat people who can do nothing for them. People with no power, no popularity, ugly people they dont want to sleep with, homeless people, elderly neighbors, the clerk at the store. Notice if their actions show concern for the other persons feelings, their needs, their wants. Notice if they totally ignore the powerless, and if they automatically gravitate towards the people with power. Notice who notices the less popular and is kind to them.

Lots of people are friendly, but its so you will listen to them, and their needs, and their stories. Pay attention to who asks you how you are doing, and then really follows up on it. Be wary of the people who want to help others to appear sainted, or to get into heaven, (which is just another form of self interest) and those who are just helpful to whomever, whenever.

If you really start watching people, you will see them. They are more rare than you think, but they are out there.




edit on 14-5-2011 by Illusionsaregrander because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 02:04 AM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 





I would like ATS members to think about and contribute their thoughts - what would it take for YOU to say "Enough" "I've had it", and start organizing a grassroots rebeliion...


Arrr you scurvy knave, thinking of rebellion are we now? Them's treasonous thoughts, punishable by some sort of punishment I guess.



I would like ATS members to think about and contribute their thoughts - what would it take for YOU to say "Enough" "I've had it", and start organizing a grassroots rebeliion...

You know I never thought about it, but the day I cant afford the grey poupon with my caviar spread deli sandwiches. Or they make me get up really early and listen to some stupid thing or another that they spout. Then I think it's rebellion time. Or if enough people feel like it! then sure why not, but the rebellion better be at noon or night, I ain't getting up early with all these busy bodies over anything, more of a night person anyways.

Anyways interesting thread S@F to bump this for more opinions, since mine sucks so much. Better to get more angles on it.



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 02:29 AM
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reply to post by Illusionsaregrander
 



I also figured out a while back that the reason we have sociopathic leaders is because of the nasty selfishness of those at the bottom. They want brutal people to lead them, who will kill off their enemies and plunder their resources, hoping for some crumbs to fall down to them. (Trickle down economics) It almost serves them right that what really ends up happening is that they are exploited themselves by the same people they hope will brutalize their competitors.



Its because of what I said earlier, that probably sounded awful to your kind ears. The people at the bottom are usually not that different in quality from the people at the top. They are still predators, just not as successful at it.



Ah well. I used to feel a great deal of pity for the common man, but the more I know, the more I realize that they are not so different on the whole from those who exploit them.


"As above and so bellow" Hermes the Thrice Great.

You know you should be careful or one day you to will be seeing mysteries in everything, and talking about crazy theories here on ATS and saying things that make no sense to anybody else, who knows you might even be called a nutter. Or if your really unlucky you might even catch that disease called being a little enlightened.

Ah just messing a little, but ya it seems to be like the top and bottom have many things in common.



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 10:39 AM
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reply to post by Illusionsaregrander
 





If you really start watching people, you will see them. They are more rare than you think, but they are out there.


Heh. Okay, my kneejerk reaction to this was - "I do watch people! I've been watching and listening to people for my whole cognizant life!! For crying out loud, I have been a student of 'behavior' since I was a kid! That's the reason I became a social worker, after working as a support staff member for troubled kids. But I've always been a writer, a watcher, and thinker, fascinated by others."

But then I thought: Okay, no need to be defensive. Illusions has a good point. For some weird reason (I think there's a tattoo on my forehead that only sociopaths or the needy can see) people seem compelled to tell me their problems. Doesn't matter if it's a teen on a train, a clerk at a home improvement warehouse, a frustrated coworker, a client, a friend of my kid's, another customer waiting at a mechanic's garage -- it just seems that people who want to vent or need support are drawn to me...and talk to me....perfect strangers to close friends, since I was a preteen, it seems.

And I am always willing to listen respectfully, empathetically, and believe the person is the best expert on themselves, and see my role as giving them an opportunity to "share" with another soul their burdens, to perhaps hear a different perspective, or at the very least to let them know they have been heard.

My problem, as I think about Reciprocal Altruism, is that I often trust that the person will NATURALLY be that way. That I will be appreciated. When I first started working with troubled kids, as a classroom support person in the urban core, I found that the kids with the most volatile, explosive behaviors were calmed by me. They sought me out rather than the "social workers" who were there to "counsel" them.

I was then urged by the head social worker to apply to graduate school, as I seemed "to really have an ability to reach these kids". So I did. And I finished the program with honors. And instead of being placed back where this all began, I was forced by the university to take a practicum in a different area - Community Mental Health in the Urban Core - and I protested.
I said, No, I want to work with kids.
And they said, Too bad, we're sticking you in CMH.

And, as I might have predicted (had I known myself this well then), I couldn't stick the landing.

I still fantasize that one day I'll be an old granny, bent and grey and rocking in my chair, and one of those kids (who are all grown now), will seek me out and say, "I just wanted to let you know how much you helped me."

I used to tell people, "If I can change this child's trajectory by just one degree, and instead of killing someone they merely take their wallet, I will consider I have had a positive impact."

Since I left that profession working with troubled youth, 15 years have passed. Over the first five years or so I did occasionally get stopped in the grocery or wherever by kids with whom I had worked. They did remember me, and made it a point to say hello and fill me in. This means the world to me.

Anyway, Illusions, you and I have lots we could talk about, I suspect.

The sum of this post/reply is that, I know I know less than I thought I knew before -- but I do know some stuff, and I do watch people. I thank you for your straightforward advice, I totally agree with it, and I admit to my own vulnerability to sociopaths and narcissists. Oh yes, I admit it. Mea Culpa.

"Fool me once, my fault...." etc.

In the end it was my inability to really tell the sociopaths from the vulnerable and authentic that led to my retreat.
I preferred feeling I could trust anyone who SEEMED authentic and genuine. That feeling is gone. I have become a cynical, distrustful person. I hope this can change, but I wonder.

This is how modern society has damaged me. I trusted until I was betrayed. Now, I suspect betrayal rather than Reciprocal Altruism. And it hurts my soul.



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 10:49 AM
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reply to post by galadofwarthethird
 


Wow! Okay, fair enough, grey poupon caviar and early morning meetings...
Thanks very much!!

Pass the brie, please.

No, seriously, thanks for your response. I detect a tongue-in-cheek tone, hope I'm not mistaken (see above self-disclosure), and I DO hope others will respond. I'd sincerely like to know. Maybe I'll write a book about it.



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 10:59 AM
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Originally posted by galadofwarthethird

"As above and so bellow" Hermes the Thrice Great.

You know you should be careful or one day you to will be seeing mysteries in everything, and talking about crazy theories here on ATS and saying things that make no sense to anybody else, who knows you might even be called a nutter. Or if your really unlucky you might even catch that disease called being a little enlightened.

Ah just messing a little, but ya it seems to be like the top and bottom have many things in common.


It could be. I tend not to talk as much about "enlightenment" but not because I disregard it. But because most of the people discussing it are so ego charged and mistaken its not really worth the effort. I just leave them to the game of enlightenment, and the ego aggrandizement. For me, its not the point. Enlightenment just is the ability to see "What IS." Its not some magical thing that will allow you to pull Ferraris out of your vision board and its certainly not something that aggrandizes the ego.



posted on May, 15 2011 @ 11:36 AM
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Originally posted by wildtimes

But then I thought: Okay, no need to be defensive. Illusions has a good point. For some weird reason (I think there's a tattoo on my forehead that only sociopaths or the needy can see) people seem compelled to tell me their problems.


What they can see is, "I need/want to be helpful, and this is a character trait that can be exploited."


Originally posted by wildtimes
And I am always willing to listen respectfully, empathetically, and believe the person is the best expert on themselves, and see my role as giving them an opportunity to "share" with another soul their burdens, to perhaps hear a different perspective, or at the very least to let them know they have been heard.


I dont guess you can see the flaw in your logic here? You are assuming honesty. You arent assuming that people tell the stories they believe will get them the reaction they want. And where does this belief in honesty come from? Little children begin to lie very early on, and it only increases as they get more skillful. Politicians lie, salesmen lie, your teenagers lie, husbands and wives lie, parents lie to children, people lie on resumes. Where is this assumption of honesty coming from?

I have insight into this because my natural mother is highly intelligent, (156) and also a sociopath. I didnt spend my whole life with her, but I spent enough of my life with her to see very clearly how they operate. Not for an hour in an interview, where they can work their charms, but for the whole day everyday where I could watch the charm go on with certain people, and then the mask come off when at home. I watched her provoke people into violence so she could play the victim, and I watched her manipulate judges, cops, social workers, psychologists, etc.

You are also assuming a level of personal insight that I dont know if I can agree with. She very clearly had insight into others, but she seemed to completely lack any insight into the very real fact that she was not a victim but the cause of her own problems. And it was this belief in her own victimhood that allowed her to do things she intellectually knew were wrong.


Originally posted by wildtimes
I found that the kids with the most volatile, explosive behaviors were calmed by me. They sought me out rather than the "social workers" who were there to "counsel" them.


Being helpful, being "the one" who can work magic, is an egoic weakness that can skew your view. It feels good, and it may even be grounded in reality. You may really have a gift with true victims, and there are many. But the need or want to feel that way is the door a sociopath uses to gain access to you.


Originally posted by wildtimes
I still fantasize that one day I'll be an old granny, bent and grey and rocking in my chair, and one of those kids (who are all grown now), will seek me out and say, "I just wanted to let you know how much you helped me."


Again, not to be cruel, but notice the desire for external reinforcement of your helpfulness. It something that can be manipulated, either by withholding, or dangling like a carrot, or by giving. I am sure there are kids you DID help. And they may come tell you. But the need or want to hear praise or validation is something that can be exploited by the unsavory among us.



Originally posted by wildtimes
I used to tell people, "If I can change this child's trajectory by just one degree, and instead of killing someone they merely take their wallet, I will consider I have had a positive impact."


Its safer to not attach to the outcome, and instead find satisfaction in just doing your best, all the time.


Originally posted by wildtimes
Anyway, Illusions, you and I have lots we could talk about, I suspect.


I bet we do. And I have enjoyed it so far.


Originally posted by wildtimes
The sum of this post/reply is that, I know I know less than I thought I knew before -- but I do know some stuff, and I do watch people. I thank you for your straightforward advice, I totally agree with it, and I admit to my own vulnerability to sociopaths and narcissists. Oh yes, I admit it. Mea Culpa.


Lol. Its strange to me that people feel ashamed? upset? of their weaknesses. We all have them. The secret is to know what they are, know your vulnerabilities, the things that people can exploit about you, and operate with awareness of them. And to shift your reward system from an externally driven one to an internally driven one.

And absolutely do NOT, lol, make the mistake of assuming that "because I would do, would never do this, (lie, exploit, etc) other people surely must be the same deep inside."

Its not true. There are all kinds of people, all levels of intelligence and natural altruism, self awareness, etc., and you have to be very sure you are not looking through a filter of "this is what I would do" or "what I would want" or "what I was taught people want."

In philosophy, Socrates argued that the only thing that made him the wisest of all men was that he alone knew he didnt know. Many people took that to mean he was being a smart ass. But he was very serious. THINKING you know, prevents you from really, really looking with the sharpest most intelligent eyes.

Look at every person and situation as if it were an alien species you had encountered for the first time today and assume nothing. Its a whole different kind of watching than the watching that originates from what you think you know about a thing.



Originally posted by wildtimes
I hope this can change, but I wonder.

This is how modern society has damaged me. I trusted until I was betrayed. Now, I suspect betrayal rather than Reciprocal Altruism. And it hurts my soul.



You have to participate in your own betrayal in many ways. If you can become more dispassionate, and more observant, you wont be tricked, and if you arent tricked, you wont feel betrayed. AND, you will be able to identify people you can trust.
edit on 15-5-2011 by Illusionsaregrander because: (no reason given)



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