Teacher 'Refused To Hang Child's Drawing Of U.S. Flag Because It Would Offend Jehovah's Witness S

What confuses me is the fact that the school flies the flag out front... So, if the teacher is so worried about this student being offended... It seems like they would have tried to do something about that....

I have a feeling that this whole JW thing is just being used as an excuse. I do not think we are getting the full story... I am thinking that the teacher, for what ever reason, had a problem with him hanging that picture up...

Perhaps the kid really wasn't supposed to be drawing, and that is why, but now there are claims of discrimination so they are claiming they were trying to protect the rights of another student, in order to protect the teacher? I don't know...

But if he was not supposed to be drawing, why did the teacher not stop him from doing so?

We are not getting the full story from either side, I think...

Originally posted by TheAnnouncementMovement
reply to post by pityocamptes

 

Really? Care to explain? I'm pretty sure that the 200+ JW's I talked to last month probably had their head screwed on tighter than anyone I've talked to on here, including you.

I take it you have never been a JW, have you? I was for decades, as WAS my family - very high in the org. They are a dangerous CULT. Religious studies have shown that they have the poorest educated, highest mental issues, pedophiles, and on and on. So yes I know what I am talking about, and could out debate you with PROOF on this subject until hell freezes over...

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox

Originally posted by Intelearthling
The irony of your opinion on this subject matter is that many men, women and children have given their lives in the last 235 years for you to have the right to say this.

This right doesn't exist in many nations so you should be grateful you live in the United States.

No one has ever died for my right to speak freely - except perhaps, at the hands of a mob of rednecks with a rope.

Soldiers do not die to protect the rights of citizens; they die to protect the wealth of their commanders. This is the case in every nation on earth, but is especially true in the United States, where we have not faced an existential conflict since 1783. Stressing this point is the fact that when these soldiers go to war, our "rights" to speak freely are often hideously curtailed, whether by law (such as the Espionage Act) or by media culture.

TheWalkingFox, I nearly stood up and cheered when I read your post. Truth and logic are rarely spoken as well as you have shared it. I wish your post would be displayed on large plaques permanently mounted on the outside of every armed forces recruiting station across the country. If I knew where you lived I'd send you the best bottle of wine I could afford. Bless your heart.

Originally posted by pityocamptes

I take it you have never been a JW, have you? I was for decades, as WAS my family - very high in the org.

How high up the organization would that be?

They are a dangerous CULT. Religious studies have shown that they have the poorest educated, highest mental issues, pedophiles, and on and on.

You've been here since "07".. you know for us to deny ignorance we need backing/proof of such a claim (regardless of the faith, cult, religion, whatever). So could you provide us with some credible links to your information please? This might make for some interesting discussion on our weekly radio program. In fact would you be interested in coming on the program and sharing your views on why they are a "dangerous CULT"?

Thanks!
Johnny

reply to post by JohnnyAnonymous




Bethel, MS, special pioneer, elder, city overseer - thirty years in. My family was/is very social with many of the upper "brothers" at bethel, financial, etc.

www.seanet.com...

Books from former governing body member - Franz, ie crisis of conscience, etc.

Failure to allow members/children to take blood, allow Malawi brothers to die, rape, etc. over .25 cent political card, but allow Mexican brothers to pay bribes to obtain "military" service card.

Member (NGO) of the UN, even though they spoke bad of them for decades (Wild Beast).

Do not allow college, and forbid internet chat rooms, especially those geared towards disproving the JW's.

Tax records for JW's in NY (Bethel) showed that they brought in close to 1 BILLION dollars, and they are considered one of the top businesses in Brooklyn.

Owner of RJ Reynold stocks, Randcam stocks (tobacco and mil), although they condemn patrons to invest or participate in these businesses...

I could go on all day and night...

I appreciate the invite and could no doubt share lots of stories. Unfortunately, I still have family in and have done a successful "fade" which has taken me close to a decade. I do not want to risk my family, marriage, and the possibility of being DF'd.

If you are interested in finding someone, I would recommend going to Jehovahs-Witness.net where you will find ex bethelites, elders, co's etc who are more in a position to talk openly. Its sad that this "religion" does not let you leave on your own terms. DF'ing is the worst possible thing any religion could do for self, and family, Its plain evil.

You may want to contact Barbara Anderson - she was pretty much at the top in Bethel (as far as a female can get) and exposed the pedophile issues going on at bethel and the national congregations. She can be found at Jehovahs-Witness.net and Silent Lambs.

reply to post by badw0lf

Why? so you get to die, or to deny another soldier life by refusing your blood? You guys crack me up, and you're related tom e - I love my cousin, but shes batwhoopsie.

i would never deny giving blood if someone needed it, sounds like you have a lot of homework to do

reply to post by pityocamptes


I think we are talking about 2 complete different types of people. The JW's I talk to on the weekend talk about the illuminati and similar subjects. They also encourage questioning their teachings and finding my own answers outside of the book. And can you show me some evidence of these "religious studies?"

I'm pretty sure you're talking about catholics.

reply to post by pityocamptes


it's true that the religion has its share of bad history, but what religion doesn't? christians have killed, muslims have killed, jews, etc..

but you are focusing on all the bad things that have happened, while ignoring the positive side, which is that it brings people together, it teaches morals, and the biggest goal of jehovah's witnesses is to simply preach the word of the bible.

anyway, it sounds like you have had family or you yourself have been a member of the organization, and got a bad taste of it. please understand that most jehovah's witnesses that i know do go to college, they work decent jobs, they run businesses or invest in them, they pay taxes, many choose to serve their country (such as myself, I am now a Marine Corps Sergeant), many choose to give blood and even accept it (though many prefer to take a blood substitute), and yes, we respect the flag.

love to all!

reply to post by burntheships


Do we have to be so sentitive? Why this is news is beyond me lol Did this make headlines? I bet it did

Originally posted by pityocamptes

www.seanet.com...

I will peruse through JW Research, but I have to say that the little designed website seems in the onset to be a two person show (Ken Raines and a Jerry Bergman, Ph.D), that for reasons unknown (conspiratorial perhaps?) have an "in" for Jehovah's Witnesses... and Microsoft which the website owner Ken Raines apparently hates even more (which involves more theories on his part).

I've not found those statistics yet that you mentioned... and so far I've not read anything that doesn't sound like about every other religion that wants to have complete subjection over their church, congregation, group. And I have yet to research any Cult, Faith, Organization, Religion that didn't have some type of skeletons in the closet.

I guess to just boil it down simply, what I'm looking for is the link/references for the raw data/statistics on the claims you made.

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox

Originally posted by Intelearthling
The irony of your opinion on this subject matter is that many men, women and children have given their lives in the last 235 years for you to have the right to say this.

This right doesn't exist in many nations so you should be grateful you live in the United States.

No one has ever died for my right to speak freely - except perhaps, at the hands of a mob of rednecks with a rope.

Soldiers do not die to protect the rights of citizens; they die to protect the wealth of their commanders. This is the case in every nation on earth, but is especially true in the United States, where we have not faced an existential conflict since 1783. Stressing this point is the fact that when these soldiers go to war, our "rights" to speak freely are often hideously curtailed, whether by law (such as the Espionage Act) or by media culture.

The only response I'll give to your post is there's no use in trying to talk to someone as liberal as you. You're in some kind of fantasy world and you're completely removed from reality.

Do you really believe that solidiers go to war to protect the wealth of their commanders and not the freedom of their families? You're living in a dream world buddy. Lay off the dope!

reply to post by burntheships


In my humble opinion. If Ole Glory offends anybody in America, They need to be stripped of their citizenship and deported. I know that's drastic but so is our troops fighting and dying for that very symbol that some morons are offended by. It spits on every single one of our hero's that are prepared and have made the ultimate sacrifice.It doesn't matter if you support the people sending our troops to battle. That is a separate group of individuates that you can choose to agree or disagree with them. Protest them all you want. Or vote them out.

But when it get's to the point where you confuse our national flag as a symbol of political administrations and their policy's then you don't deserve to be an American citizen. Our great flag stands for the PEOPLE of this great nation, also our history and especially our Military past and present. It's evil and borderline treason that it can offend you. Why would these people want to be in this country anyhow if Ole Glory offends them. That was our battle flag that freed the slaves. Created our nation. Destroyed evil empires in the great wars. The only people that flag should offend in my opinion is Hitler, The Japanese Empire of world war two.And Ex slave traders. Notice their all dead. Our flag isn't or wasn't Clinton's flag, Bush's or Obama's. It's our flag. It symbolizes a great idea. Now is the United States and it's people perfect? of course not. But I do believe we try to be the good guy's. If you want make a statement, Vote or protest... But don't mess with our Flag. You might offend a veteran and end up getting your jaw broke.

reply to post by Intelearthling


If you truly belief that. You are less educated than my ten year old son. Where did your parents immigrate from? I bet you don't even know. I'll try and educate you and even give you names. Try moving to China and speaking against their government. The stupidity of some people truly amazes me. Have you ever even read the declaration of Independence? Do you think the War of independence was actually fought? I personally know of 6 people in my family that fought in that war. 4 in the War of 1812. What in your mind do you think they were fighting for? free WiFi?

reply to post by Intelearthling


Additionally do you even know any soldiers? Have you ever spoken your thoughts to one. No of course not. Because your a coward. You actually make me ill. I'm embarrassed for you. It seems unfair for you to think that way with out speaking to a soldier face to face about your views that just popped into your head probably from the help of a crack pipe. I would seriously pay to watch you tell a man a WW2 vet that. Watching a 75 old man curb stomp you would make my day. Where do these people come up with this stuff. So you believe your freedoms just poof, happened?

reply to post by tothetenthpower


It starts with the parents, not the teachers. I get really tired of teachers being blamed. I teach in a middle school where the kids are rough, tough, and have no respect for teachers, or any other adult. It starts at home, friend.

Looks to me like the kid found out that the Jehovah's Witness boy didn't pledge allegiance to the flag and then drew the flag in spite. The flag drawing was not what she had asked him to do, and was offensive due to it being spiteful and she refused to hang it up. The bigoted fathers of the boy gets involved and blames the teacher and the Jehovah's witness rather then punishing his child for being a schmuck.

Originally posted by Intelearthling
The only response I'll give to your post is there's no use in trying to talk to someone as liberal as you.

With convalescent therapy, you can overcome this crippling handicap. However, I apologize for making you feel threatened. While I will not commit myself to making your experience on ATS more comfortable - we just can't function as a brainless echo chamber here - I will offer my sympathy for the suffering you must endure, as a victim of this socially and mentally crippling disability. My thoughts are with you and I wish you a speedy and thorough recovery.

You're in some kind of fantasy world and you're completely removed from reality.

In my fantasy world, we try to not repeat ourselves in a single sentence. The word "and" is a lady - you can't just use her for whatever you please. My personal reality is a capably literate one.

Do you really believe that solidiers go to war to protect the wealth of their commanders and not the freedom of their families?

Do you believe that if it were about fighting for the freedoms of their families, drafts, conscription, and impressment would have ever been needed? if it were something like fighting for freedoms, would the military currently need to be firing its propaganda cannons full-blast, but still coming up short on recruits?

Take for instance, the revolutionary war. What was that bout? The ignorant peasant-patriot thinks that that war was all of the American colonies, screaming in King George III's face in one voice, "FREEEEEEEEDOOOOOOM!" while of course someone plays a little tune on a snare and fife.

Why then, did Patrick Henry ("Give me liberty, or give me death," remember? Heck of a thing for a slaveowner to say) despair over the fact that only - in his words - one-third of the Colonials support the revolutionary cause? Why then, were most of the men of the continental army draftees?

Fact of the matter, the men now lionized as our "founding fathers" were, one and all, wealthy. Very wealthy. Born a century earlier, they all could have been royalty. Most were wealthy from land and slaves - George Washington had the most slaves of any single landowner in all thirteen colonies, and they made him very wealthy - wealthy enough to buy an army. And reasonably enough, they wanted to be more wealthy. Standing in the way was the British Crown, which levied taxes, and the British trading Company, which the colonies were contractually obligated to sell to. The wealthy colonists didn't like paying taxes, and they wanted unfettered access to Europe's markets. One way to do this was to seek representation in parliament ("No Taxation without representation," remember?) but that could take a long time and was far from guaranteed. The other option was armed insurrection.

So these wealthy landowners started a war. That's what the Declaration of Independence was, in case you don't follow too well - when you tell your nation "screw you, you suck, I'm confiscating all your assets that I can and I will shoot you if you come here," it's a declaration of war. There was, of course, a big problem. While they could buy officers, those officers needed men to command - and the general populace had strong antipathy towards the whole deal. Most were perfectly happy British citizens, after all; revolutionary sentiment was never that high, and volunteers weren't exactly pouring in (especially since it was pretty much a lost cause, being led by men who's only martial experience was beating slaves)

Sooooo the commanders of the Continental Army marched around and collected capable men at gunpoint and forced them to serve in the army. FREEEEDOOOOOM! Mutinies and desertions were a real problem, and only officers were ever actually paid. When we managed to buy off the French to join our cause, French officers did bring in some much-needed reforms (like occasional furloughs!) but again - they were the ones getting paid.

In the end, the British lost that war, leaving the wealthy elite of the colonies to write their own tax code (which, under the Articles of Confederation, was a complete failure) and opening America to trade with the rest of Europe (A rousing success for the wealthy). How did the soldier who risked his neck make out? Most of them didn't make out at all. Some very few were granted land stolen from loyalists, but wracking debt forced many of them to sell it - usually to, guess who - the landowning class! The inequalities codified by the Revolutionary War resulted in civil war; not the one in the 1860's - Shay's Rebellion.

The average colonists had no more freedoms under the wealthy American elite than he did under the Crown, because the laws of the new nation were virtually identical to the ones they had just done away with. That stuff in the constitution was lip service - printing presses critical of government action or officials were regularly shut down, and the judicial system was hugely corrupt. Several states maintained sectarian laws well into the 1800's. And this is all without taking into consideration the hideous oppression of Africans and native Americans (George Washington was known as Caunotaucarius among the Iroquois League - it means "town destroyer" because he set fire to over 40 Iroquois villages) However, that special set of the fabulously wealthy did gain even more wealth.

TLR version; By making slaves of their fellow colonists through forced conscription, the "founding fathers" fomented a war that would kill fifty thousand of their "countrymen" in order to free themselves - and only themselves - from what they regarded as onerous taxation and disadvantageous contracts.

If you prefer i could tell you very similar stories about the armies of the Mongol empire. or Austria-Hungary. The Zulu? Name an army.

You're living in a dream world buddy.

Well, I'm not the one who thinks that soldiers killing Afghans at a wedding with an unmanned drone increases my level of freedom. Your mileage may vary, though.

Lay off the dope!

Sorry, I didn't know I was being so hard on you.

reply to post by burntheships


So....basically here is the story...for those of you who don't bother to read the story, you saw: Evil Teacher Refuses to Hang American Flag Picture Drawn By Innocent Student Who Loves America...Instead She Tore It Down And Hung Pictures of Communist Propaganda and Pictures of Osama Bin Laden Drawn by Her Brainwashed Students....When confronted the Teacher Cried "Oh But I Can't Hang It Up...It Might Offend Some Random Jehovah's Witness, Its Simply Not PC"...or something like that......While those of us who actually DID read the story found out that the story goes more like this...The kid was harassing a Jehovah's Witness student who didn't pledge allegiance, then furthered the kids torment by trying to hang up a picture he drew of an American Flag...not that anyone else was hanging up pictures...or drawing pictures, even according to the Teacher..the kid was supposed to be working on some assignment. Instead he decided to be disruptive by teasing a student who's beliefs he didn't understand.

Makes a big difference when you bother to read something, doesn't it?

I think this is one of the major problems of the times. Everyone is so afraid to not be politically correct, that they will trample the rights and even common courtesies that make our society run smoother. This child did nothing wrong, yet was punished because it MAY offend. Religious groups, of ANY belief, don't belong in schools. The parents take care of that at home and it's not the responsibility of the teachers and principle to enforce religious guide lines. If the parents are afraid the child may see something against their beliefs, don't send them there. Follow your own doctrine, don't force it's restrictions on everyone else.

It is about time we got over nationality and abstract borders. We need each other to live and prosper. No country in the world stands alone..