Breaking: LTC Terry Lakin- King of Birthers - is Finally Freed from Levinworth and Tells His Story..

The German (and other) people who followed military orders in Nazi Germany and were tried as war criminals post-war rationalized the compartmentalized atrocities of their individual actions on the part of their collective using the 'Nuremburg defense'; stating simply that they were following orders (orders which, through chain of command, ultimately are issued from the top). Their complicity allowed one of last century's greatest atrocities to metastasize and spread.

So, is this what all the trolls bashing this guy want? Men in uniform who are ardent and unquestionaing order-followers, and not men of courage AND conviction in that which they profess to defend (Not just the real estate, but the values their nation represents.. Constitution, Bill of Rights...)?

Be careful what you wish for... !

This thread seems to have drawn an interesting line. Most of the reasons people are giving for why Lakin is a hero means that every man and woman in the field or already dead in these wars is a scumbag. I had no idea there was so much hatred for the men and women in uniform. Most threads seem to read in a different tone.

Originally posted by Becoming

Originally posted by Granite
reply to post by aptness

 

Are you calling him a traitor and a coward?
His rank speaks loudly of his abilities and charactor.
What is your rank?

While this guy is inspiring, I wouldn't go as far as to say his rank speaks for his abilities and character. I have know many many many officers of his rank and higher who are low lifes who enjoyed their power a little to much. Nothing criminal, just using it to make lower ranking soldiers lives hell.

Do high school seniors not do the same thing? Do corporate offices not have the same events? Whats your point? Its a human psychological issue, and its probably not going anywhere.

Originally posted by DjDoubleD
The German (and other) people who followed military orders in Nazi Germany and were tried as war criminals post-war rationalized the compartmentalized atrocities of their individual actions on the part of their collective using the 'Nuremburg defense'; stating simply that they were following orders (orders which, through chain of command, ultimately are issued from the top). Their complicity allowed one of last century's greatest atrocities to metastasize and spread.

So, is this what all the trolls bashing this guy want? Men in uniform who are ardent and unquestionaing order-followers, and not men of courage AND conviction in that which they profess to defend (Not just the real estate, but the values their nation represents.. Constitution, Bill of Rights...)?

Be careful what you wish for... !

Wow, could not star this enough times if it were allowed. welcome to the forums, glad to see a level head.

Originally posted by derst1988

Originally posted by Becoming

Originally posted by Granite
reply to post by aptness

 

Are you calling him a traitor and a coward?
His rank speaks loudly of his abilities and charactor.
What is your rank?

While this guy is inspiring, I wouldn't go as far as to say his rank speaks for his abilities and character. I have know many many many officers of his rank and higher who are low lifes who enjoyed their power a little to much. Nothing criminal, just using it to make lower ranking soldiers lives hell.

Do high school seniors not do the same thing? Do corporate offices not have the same events? Whats your point? Its a human psychological issue, and its probably not going anywhere.

I thought the point was that simply because he has a certain rank does not necessarily mean he deserved or achieved the accolades that perhaps should accompany that. I would take from your response that you are saying it happens in high schools and other places too so it does not matter. I would then dare say the point still stands. No matter where else or how often else it happens, his rank really does not mean anything about his abilities or integrity as was stated. Right? Maybe I missed something? I ask because these defenses seem off somehow. Not inline with the norm.

He may not be qualified for presidency but he got Osama and that's what matters.

And besides where's his evidence which makes BS invalid? I sure didn't see any. Fail thred

This man should be hanged for treachery and not waste tax money in prison.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/f5ace58fc8ee.gif[/atsimg]

/sarcasm

Sorry I had to. There's not much intelligent to be said here but some posts here are at least funny to read.

Lakin is not a hero. Being in the military does not mean someone's a hero. IMO, he's not very smart.

If I refused to deploy because of my beliefs that flying in an airplane would damage my soul, the military does not have to prove that flying in an airplane would not damage my soul. I would be charged with failing to deploy and by rights, I should be counseled for irrational and paranoid beliefs. So should Lakin. He needs help.

This is another indication why a young person should NOT go into the military.

Can't get a job?

Better to be unemployed than become a slave to the military for the rest of your life, which BTW will be short.

reply to post by romanmel


What young person are you talking about? This guy looks to be in his sixties and I imagine he has been in over 20 years.

What story are you reading?

Meh.. I'm sort of used to this reverse weirdness in judging human character on these boards.

For some reason, people here actually PRAISE people like Bin Laden, Saddam, Gaddafi, etc.. and curse our own leaders. They say our government is evil, our police are pointless, and that the masses (snicker) should rule.

So I'm not going to get too worked up when the same folks praise some guy who disobeyed orders of his commander. I don't know if he got caught up in some birther fervor, if he really didn't want to serve another overseas term, or if he was a racist, and this was his way of protesting - but he was dead WRONG. And as Obama has provided further proof, even though he did not have to, he did what he did for nothing.

Like I have said before...I thought Obama was an American citizen UNTIL they released that pdf on the WH website. Anyone who has any advanced, or even intermediate professional computer skills can see that the document was an obvious forgery. Once I analyzed that on my own machine, I had changed my mind completely.

Anyone who says that the Lt. Col. was wrong, does not clearly understand the situation. I have been closely following every court case involving Obama, and anyone who has done so should be able to see that something is at the very least "not right."

Some of you have the bad habit of letting your personal biases and opinions influence your posts, when you should act rationally and not form an opinion until you have reviewed ALL of the evidence.

Once I did so, my beliefs and pre-conceived notions on this matter did a drastic 180.

Originally posted by Becoming
reply to post by romanmel

 

What young person are you talking about? This guy looks to be in his sixties and I imagine he has been in over 20 years.

What story are you reading?

My message does not change.

Those who choose the military as an option to unemployment, regardless of age, will either live to regret their choice or die for no damned good reason.

In today's world only a fool would choose to join the military, IMO.

reply to post by romanmel


Okay then, run along and make an anti military thread then.

You obviously have nothing to contribute to this one, if you did then you would have had the courtesy to read the actual information the OP had provided.

reply to post by TerribleTeam2
reply to post by DjDoubleD

Originally posted by TerribleTeam2
And you do realise, under Military Law, that a Servicemember has EVERY right to disregard an Illegal Order, right????

You are talking generally about a principle, apparently with no knowledge of the actual law.

This is what the Uniform Code of Military Justice actually says concerning disobeying illegal orders—

Disobeying superior commissioned officer.
(a) Lawfulness of the order.

(i) Inference of lawfulness. An order requiring the performance of a military duty or act may be inferred to be lawful and it is disobeyed at the peril of the subordinate. This inference does not apply to a patently illegal order, such as one that directs the commission of a crime.

(ii) Determination of lawfulness. The lawfulness of an order is a question of law to be determined by the military judge.

(Manual for Courts-Martial, p. 301)

Orders are presumed to be lawful unless they are “patently illegal.” Further, the lawfulness of an order “is a question of law to be determined by [a] military judge.”

The Court of Appeals for the Armed Forces, in United States v. Huet-Vaugh (1995), stated “[t]he duty to disobey an unlawful order applies only to a positive act that constitutes a crime that is so manifestly beyond the legal power or discretion of the commander as to admit of no rational doubt of their unlawfulness.”

This is what the judge said concerning Lakin’s “illegal order” defense—

2. The defense request for judicial notice of the statement "Soldiers have a duty to disobey illegal orders." is a legal conclusion that fails to distinguish between a personal belief that an order is unlawful — which is not a defense unless the order is palpably illegal on its face — and a palpably illegal order. The request for judicial notice for this broad statement is denied.

Lakin wasn’t given a “patently illegal order.” He was told to report to his CO and to get on a plane.

Lakin’s “illegal order” defense is unsupported by law, and like his birth certificate excuse, is completely meritless.

Whoever is breaking down the PDF is getting it wrong.

Honestly.. Obama has the CIA, FBI, NSA and who knows what other organizations at his disposal, and they screw up his "fake" birth certificate? Please...

reply to post by TrueAmerican


Great post TrueAmerican! Why would they NOT let him present his case? What do they have to hide? I'm ex-military and applaud his decision. If the president is not really the president, then he is also not commander and chief!! If your CO "ordered" you to kill women and children civilians, would you obey his orders? A sane logical human being would not carry out those orders.You government trolls on this thread are as transparent as a freshly cleaned pane of glass! Go back to your fusion centers where you belong. The man followed his convictions and did what was right, not blindly following orders from a commander and chief that is NOT really the commander and chief!

he could of just resigned his commission and walked away, so it was clearly based on principle that he followed through and served time in prison. obamas a coward and Terri proved it beyond the shadow of a doubt

I get what you're saying aptness, and ty for the info in your reply
I think we are talking about grand principles here, though, if only through this man's particular case.
America is all over the world militarily. In this case maybe this officer went about questioning it the wrong way.(Though the birth certificate question, having not been adressed at that time, was a valid cocern for a career miltary man, even though it's a judgement call he made, possibly in error).
The larger issue that remains is a true lack of open questioning of America's global miltary hegemony (MSM anyone?), and its' true purpose vis a vis its stated purpose. Or, if you like, what is plainly apparent in terms of evidence of the consequences of war/occupation/liberation/democracy-spreadin' relative to what is sposta be happening everywhere the US military goes (or NATO or the UN). Who better to openly question the military and its' mission, its' purpose, than itself, warts and all? And to heck with perceived character, if a man served in the military, he speaks for them because he (or she) IS them.
This conversation, sadly, reaches the greatest heights of intellectual debate and brainstorming and research (and, sadly, trolling) on boards like this one, instead of daily in the newspapers, on tv, public debate forums, etc... which is what we all need more of!

Originally posted by aptness

Originally posted by TrueAmerican
LTC Terry Lakin, the American Hero who went to military prison over the Obama birth certificate issue

No, he didn’t. He went to prison because he disobeyed orders from his CO.
If he hadn’t invoked the birth certificate excuse the birthers would be calling this guy a traitor and a coward.
Just the birther double standard and hypocrisy at work. Carry on.

Fewer Europeans would have died at the hands of the Nazi's if more German officers had disobeyed orders from their CO.

He should have been executed as a traitor. Obama IS the Commander in Chief and President of the United States of America and will be until January 2017. You've all got SIX more years to enjoy it!

Things are going to be changing soon, Lakin will like the military much more when it's compulsory gay membership and you all will get used to the mandatory abortions.