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Do MOST people idealize Revenge?

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posted on May, 14 2011 @ 06:59 AM
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This is something that has been getting to me for YEARS. I'm not just basing this on a few things, it seems like whenever I hear about a major crime happening in the news, the common reaction is "let's do the same thing to them they did to their victim". And I'm pretty sure they're usually being dead serious. I'm talking people demanding the Death Penalty, not just for murder but for rape and even things like trespassing and illegal immigration, people advocating judicial torture for crimes such as bullying, and so on. Both the majority of people I hear in real life and on the Internet seem to jump straight to the revenge bandwagon instead of saying "that's horrible that crime happened. how can we make the situation better?"

Now maybe people don't really mean they want a Sharia-type justice system, maybe our current justice system is a bit too light or inconsistent? For example decades for doing drugs and only 10 years for murder in some cases, I agree that is not good, but to suggest going back to public hanging is outrageous and hysterical.

The truth is most people, I would guess about 70% actually, really just love revenge. And it's not even just for big things like murder and abuse, it's even little things like talking crap behind someone's back, most people will not let it go, most people would get revenge and do the same in return if they got the chance.

Most people deep down admire Hammurabi more than they admire Ghandi. And this is why the Jews and Arabs will never stop murdering each other's children, this is why the American people will never compromise and form a decent government that actually gets stuff done.

Vengeful people do not care about the human race or planet Earth, they only care about their own families, they are basically gene-selfish and anti-idealist. They are stuck in the mindset that the only way to honor themselves and their loved ones is to hurt back anyone who ever does them wrong.

Revenge is at the heart of Nationalism and Religion. Religions claim to preach forgiveness, but in truth forgiveness is reserved only for those who follow the religion. Most Christians and Muslims apparently are perfectly fine with 90% of the human race going straight to Hell, because like I said, they only care about themselves and their families, which really, is not a spiritual existence at all, because they are only living to propagate their own genes.

We are never going to have a safe world until we give up this idea that Revenge is a good thing and that it is equivalent to Justice. In fact, I truly believe that the key to world peace is the rejection of revenge by the human race.

So what do you say? Why don't we abolish revenge today?




posted on May, 14 2011 @ 07:13 AM
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I notice a lot of the same things.

It's a cliche' but I blame movies and TV. Consequence free killing. Domination of opponents. Crowds cheering to explosions and hero one-liners.

Take the Arnold movie "Collateral Damage" for instance.
It's a revenge tale. And the audience willingly goes along for the ride.

The only solution I have been able to think of are a series of videos "How (random movie) should have ended" where the people are actually sentenced for every single crime commited in the film.


David Grouchy
edit on 14-5-2011 by davidgrouchy because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 14 2011 @ 07:15 AM
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Originally posted by davidgrouchy
I notice a lot of the same things.

It's a cliche' but I blame movies and TV. Consequence free killing. Domination of opponents. Crouds cheering to explosions and hero one-liners.

Take the Arnold movie "Collateral Damage" for instance.
It's a revenge tale. And the audience willingly goes along for the ride.

The only solution I have been able to think of are a series of videos "How (random movie) should have ended" where the people are actually sentenced for every single crime commited in the film.


David Grouchy



I notice in Disney movies, the main character/hero almost NEVER kills the villain. The villain almost never repents, but generally the hero spares their life, and they die in some other way, as a result of their relentless wickedness and stubborn nature.



posted on May, 14 2011 @ 07:19 AM
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yeah i've noticed a lot of far-right people have come here, there definitely seems to be a lot more ignorance (im not just talking Republican voters - even the Democratic Party virtually seems at least center-right now). I hope the replies on that acid thread are not representative of how most people think/feel, but I am afraid they probably are.



posted on May, 14 2011 @ 07:29 AM
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Why don't we have a global holiday of ingesting a shroom. I'm pretty sure Peace on Earth would be achieved.



posted on May, 14 2011 @ 07:31 AM
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I think revenge is one of the more acceptable "dark/negative" versions of Human traits. obviously there is a line that must be drawn. For example; If someone broke into a persons home, raped and or killed a member of their family, would it then be acceptable or even understandable for them to inflict the same pain on the perpetrator?

The answers is yes.

As for these Americans cheering the death of Osama that is wrong, they have no right, the only thing Osama done to them (those cheering) was dented their pride. The only ones who had a right to cheer and revel in the vengence of OBL are the victims (and there families) of such atrocities as 9/11.


Revenge is the great balancer, as death is the great equalizer.



ALS
edit on 14-5-2011 by ALOSTSOUL because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 14 2011 @ 07:56 AM
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There is no reason for revenge when Karma exists.

second line.



posted on May, 14 2011 @ 08:06 AM
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reply to post by descartes90
 


How can I say 'bullshirt' without being rude? All this Revenge you speak of is nothing more than another word typed on an Internet forum. The 'net is chock full of Keyboard Tough Guys with big claims of action: "I'd do this! I'd do that!" meanwhile the bulk of them are safely warm in a bedroom at their Moms house.

Very few people have (the know-how/the bravado/the stupidity) to run out and actually make good on their claims. The wonderful Internet provides a large layer of anonymity that allows a diminutive man to be 10 feet tall.

We don't have a problem in Real Life with people taking revenge. To be honest, I wish America did have a few thousand Charles Bronson Death Wish / Boondock Saint pay-back specialists. It would wonderful to read about paedophiles, rapists & murderers who were let off on technicalities to actually get their just due.

I would love to read about the scumbags of Pennsylvania Avenue, Wall Street and a few other addresses living in fear for their lives. I think we wouldn't have 1/2 the bullshirt we have right now if crooked politicians and CEOs of corporations that rape entire countries were found on a weekly basis lifeless in a pool of their own blood.

Revenge is something we write of often and participate in rarely. Please don't try to censor even more thoughts and words, we have enough of that already.



posted on May, 14 2011 @ 08:09 AM
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Originally posted by donatellanator
There is no reason for revenge when Karma exists.

second line.


Isn't saying that a form of vengeful thinking though? Like, instead of saying 'I hope they improve their character in the next life", you're kinda more saying "the Universe is gonna kick their ass", right? which is similar to hoping someone will burn in Hell, and 'forgiving' them 'knowing' that.
edit on 14-5-2011 by descartes90 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 14 2011 @ 08:57 AM
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Originally posted by descartes90

Originally posted by donatellanator
There is no reason for revenge when Karma exists.

second line.


Isn't saying that a form of vengeful thinking though? Like, instead of saying 'I hope they improve their character in the next life", you're kinda more saying "the Universe is gonna kick their ass", right? which is similar to hoping someone will burn in Hell, and 'forgiving' them 'knowing' that.
edit on 14-5-2011 by descartes90 because: (no reason given)


I was just stating an objective truth. Trying to show the folly of revenge.

To me, Karma isn't vengeful it is exact. It helps improve character whether it is realized in this lifetime or not. I am happy it exists because it has taught me many valuable lessons (once I myself understood the law). I do not share the sentiment that "the Universe is gonna kick their ass" because that is not what Karma is or does. It's a teacher, not a "punisher".

For example, if someone wrongs me I try my best to let it go. I do not seek to hurt them back or wish them any ill will-- honestly most rolls off my back and I forget. Keep in mind, I am (you are) a part of everyone and they are a part of me (you). "Wishing" bad Karma on them would only put me further into debt. Following that logic, I might as well as hit them in the face to begin with.


I do agree with the general idea of your sentiments, but for me personally I do not subscribe to that.
edit on 14-5-2011 by donatellanator because: extra DIV



posted on May, 14 2011 @ 09:21 AM
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reply to post by donatellanator
 


Well Karma isn't doing a very good job:


A man serving a life sentence for attempted rape has won £7m on the National Lottery.


news.bbc.co.uk...

I believe in Karma as a state of mind but not as a sort of benevolent, omnipotent entity.

ALS



posted on May, 14 2011 @ 09:34 AM
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Originally posted by ALOSTSOUL
reply to post by donatellanator
 


Well Karma isn't doing a very good job:


A man serving a life sentence for attempted rape has won £7m on the National Lottery.


news.bbc.co.uk...

I believe in Karma as a state of mind but not as a sort of benevolent, omnipotent entity.

ALS


Not an entity with any positive or negative attributes, just a law. I understand where you're coming from with your example, but Karma doesn't always "act" quickly. It may take many "lifetimes", which could be considered a "hard" lesson in of itself.



posted on May, 14 2011 @ 10:10 AM
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With remorseless psychopaths, their own stuff dished back to them, is the only thing that seems to get through. I was listening, quite some time back, to a radio program, I think it was NPR. This psychiatric nurse was describing how tuff she was toward some psych ward inpatients, so they would obey her. She most likely had one of those authority power trip mindsets going on, which certain individuals enjoy. Like a bully. So she was telling about how she made the mistake of behaving like a bully toward this one patient, who was a black man who was from off the streets homeless. Finally, he hauled off and punched her face in, sending her across the floor. SHE ADMITTED that it made her re think what she had been doing!!!



posted on May, 14 2011 @ 10:17 PM
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There was a study done awhile back that showed that revenge actually light up parts of the brain that were associated with pleasure. So, it is definitely hard wired into our psychology to seek out revenge.

Where I would differ with this thread, is when people think ultimate revenge such as killing is justified. Most people think killing a murdering pedophile would be justice, and killing someone who, say, killed their family, would be justice. I haven't come across too many people that would argue killing illegal immigrants, shop lifters, or tax evaders is morally correct.

The common frustration comes from the feeling that the justice system in the US treats the aforementioned criminals too nicely with cable tv, three square meals a day, university degrees via the tax payer, early release for good behaviour ect. Their is a sense of frustration with the lack of accountability for serious, vicious crimes



posted on May, 14 2011 @ 10:22 PM
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Here's one of my favorite Confucius quotes. "Before you embark on a journey of revenge, dig two graves".



posted on May, 14 2011 @ 10:28 PM
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I like the Star Trek Klingon saying, "Revenge is a dish best served cold!"



posted on May, 14 2011 @ 10:29 PM
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This notion of 'revenge' style punishments of crimes is something we need to leave in the past. Like another poster said I think this is largely to do with the media in our modern society, however humanity has always resorted to brutality and barbarism as a punishment for criminals.



posted on May, 14 2011 @ 10:29 PM
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Speak for yourself.

2nd line.



posted on May, 14 2011 @ 10:29 PM
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Perhaps it is a genetic inheritance of vengeance from the Cain and Able days of our progenitors. Usually in conjunction with moral or an abnormal, emotional confrontation and or distress.

That's my personal belief on the origination of that, not necessarily the whole religious undertones, but more as a possible point of reference chronologically.




posted on May, 14 2011 @ 10:38 PM
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reply to post by donatellanator
 


"Karma" isnt as simple as most westerners want to make it out to be. There is more than one version of it. Some people believe it is automatic, and some mystic force handles it, and you dont have to do anything.

And for some, it is just "cause and effect." And revenge fits very well into that second version. You do something, and the karma, or effect of that action, is your victim or their family comes after you.

I dont idealize revenge, I personally just think that we should weed sociopaths out of the gene pool at every opportunity to make the species a little less nasty and a little more cute n snuggly. We kind of suck, overall, and I think the agrarian lifestyle is allowing nasties to build up in the population in a way they would not in a more hunter gatherer lifestyle. I think we need to correct for it.




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