Obama's missing papers

reply to post by dogbreath

You’re wrong on every single point.

The natural born citizen definition posited by the birthers is unsupported by US jurisprudence, as is your “Constitutional crisis” scenario of every single decision and order signed by Obama being invalid — the doctrine of de facto officer would apply if Obama was ever to be found ineligible for office.

But remember he's not hiding anything.

Right?

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
reply to post by canadiansenior70

 

Don;t you just love when a Canadian tries to school us American's on our laws and requirements as Canada is not a truly free nation as y'all answer to the Crown!

You don't have to become 'nasty' to someone from another country who is trying to learn the ins and outs of your country. Some articles could be totally true and others totally false and only by posting am I able to receive feedback, on what I find to be an interesting and very important topic for the US.

Please don't be sarcastic when I am wrong, just nicely point out that whatever author of whatever article is totally wrong--a troublemker------ and better to follow ".............." whose opinions can be trusted.
Thank you

Originally posted by canadiansenior70
You don't have to become 'nasty' to someone from another country who is trying to learn the ins and outs of your country. Some articles could be totally true and others totally false and only by posting am I able to receive feedback

Nonsense. You can get answers for most of what you posted if you had done some research, but instead you chose to purposely post baseless allegations, innuendo and hearsay.

Take some responsibility for what you have posted.

Yeah, pretend you’re just “trying to learn the ins and outs of your country” while making posts accusing the President of the United States of being involved in a murder to cover up his “birth certificate issue.” And your source for this? Lies and innuendo spread by the WorldNetDaily.

The quality of what gets posted on ATS gets worse by the day.

Well we know a damn site more about Justin Bieber's life than we do about Obama's..

That's kind strange really..

Listen to all the absurd obama stooges here.
All these obama considerations/concerns are simply coincidence and
happenstance or, more likely, contrived, racist, vicious-minded, conspiracy nutter fabrications.
I suppose ye would equally try to convince us that 9/11 was carried out by 19 muslims and
that lee oswald shot and killed jfk.
Whatever.

Originally posted by pshea38
Listen to all the absurd obama stooges here.
All these obama considerations/concerns are simply coincidence and
happenstance or, more likely, contrived, racist, vicious-minded, conspiracy nutter fabrications.
I suppose ye would equally try to convince us that 9/11 was carried out by 19 muslims and
that lee oswald shot and killed jfk.
Whatever.

Well if you know and can prove what really happened in any of these situations please enlighten us. The world awaits breathlessly for your insights. Otherwise you're the one who looks like a stooge by making outlandish claims with no proof.

And to show you that there are no hard feelings and that I can be politically correct let me add; "not that there's anything wrong with being a stooge".

reply to post by Runaway1977


There seems to be a PRESIDENT Obama supporter pretending that he or she is not American by using the term "Yank".


You are not very intelligent to not know any member can investigate all post replies another member makes.

Considering you just became a member a little over a week ago.

EVERY person who has ran for or become President,has had no problem releasing public documents pertaining to his school transcripts,birth certificate,adoption papers etc.

Everyone except one.

Us Americans hard not stupid,well maybe some of us are,but we know one thing.

If a person spends as much money trying to hide something as he has,then they most likely HAVE something to hide!

reply to post by aptness


I don't recall saying that every single decision and order signed by Obama would be "invalid".

Don't get me wrong.....I really appreciate someone as knowledgeable as yourself giving me immediate feedback on my shortcomings. However, you might want to take a glance at the US Constitution....specifically Section 1, Article Two.

It also surprises me that, with your extensive legal background, you believe in your iron-clad conclusion that the "de facto officer" doctrine absolutely would apply in this case. Are you ignoring the vagaries and subtleties of this untested issue?

Originally posted by dogbreath
I don't recall saying that every single decision and order signed by Obama would be "invalid".

Help me interpret what you said then. I might be misinterpreting your post. But this is what you said:

If it is discovered that Barack Obama has obtained the office of The President under false pretenses, our country will be immediately plunged into the depths of a constitutional crises that will require an examination and reassessment of every Executive Order made, and document signed, by Barack Hussein Obama. Not to mention the actions of all the people he appointed to other government offices. Additionally, all the subsequent actions taken as a result of their actions will have to be reviewed and "walked back".

Why would it “require an examination and reassessment of every executive order made, and document signed, by Barack Hussein Obama”? Why would “all subsequent actions” of even the President’s appointees, would “have to be reviewed and ‘walked back’”?

Isn’t the obvious conclusion of your statements that, in your scenario, you are positing the President’s actions would be considered invalid? Otherwise what is the necessity of the procedures you are putting forward?

However, you might want to take a glance at the US Constitution....specifically Section 1, Article Two.

Are you talking about Article II Section 1 cl. 5? The qualifications for office? If so, I presume you are talking about the natural born citizen requirement, specifically.

May I ask why you are directing me to this provision of the Constitution? Can we ascertain what natural born citizen means by reading that provision? Or even the Constitution in toto?

It also surprises me that, with your extensive legal background, you believe in your iron-clad conclusion that the "de facto officer" doctrine absolutely would apply in this case. Are you ignoring the vagaries and subtleties of this untested issue?

You are right. I do not absolutely know the de facto officer doctrine would apply to a situation such as the one being discussed here. Let me, however, say two things.

One, I cannot imagine a situation that would confer, as per the de facto officer doctrine, a greater presumption of right to exercise the office than someone elected to it by the majority of the American people and whose election was certified without objection by the Congress.

Second, while it is true that I don’t absolutely know this doctrine would apply to a case such as this, I do know, however, that the scenario you have presented, and others similar — where everything that “ineligible President” had done would be “walked back” — doesn’t even have a basis in US jurisprudence.

You are right in pointing out the language I used was perhaps too strong, but, and until it is shown your scenario, and others like it, are even supported by existing case law, my scenario, as of now, remains infinitely more probable than yours.

Do you disagree with this assessment?

Originally posted by IamJustanAmerican
reply to post by Runaway1977

 

There seems to be a PRESIDENT Obama supporter pretending that he or she is not American by using the term "Yank".


You are not very intelligent to not know any member can investigate all post replies another member makes.

Considering you just became a member a little over a week ago.

EVERY person who has ran for or become President,has had no problem releasing public documents pertaining to his school transcripts,birth certificate,adoption papers etc.

Everyone except one.

Us Americans hard not stupid,well maybe some of us are,but we know one thing.

If a person spends as much money trying to hide something as he has,then they most likely HAVE something to hide!

edit on 14-5-2011 by IamJustanAmerican because: (no reason given)

Couple of problems here:

NO president has ever released his BC or adoption papers. Where did you ever get that idea? Few (if any - and I don't think any actually have) ever released their transcripts. (You DO understand that they are considered "private" and "personal" documents - even if you go to a "public" school - right?) The only reason we ever saw GWB's is because they were "leaked" - but not from GWB.

Again with the accusation that Obama has spent millions "hiding" his past huh? Simple request...show proof. Don't show us what other people *think* that non-specific lawyer fees are for - show "proof" (If you'd like some help...not one person has *ever* been able to show any proof no matter how many times they've been challenged to do so. But please feel free to flail away on your own time.)

Please don't speak for "us Americans" anymore - you *don't* represent us. You speak for yourself.

Original, vault copy birth certificate — Not released — Lawyers fees — greater than $1,000,000 — birth certificate — $15.

That point alone violates common sense so much...
Imagine if that went to something worthy of that money? Like building new schools or hiring actually good teachers.

Originally posted by NuclearMitochondria

Original, vault copy birth certificate — Not released — Lawyers fees — greater than $1,000,000 — birth certificate — $15.

That point alone violates common sense so much...
Imagine if that went to something worthy of that money? Like building new schools or hiring actually good teachers.

edit on 5/14/11 by NuclearMitochondria because: (no reason given)

Proof?

I dont understand why this is still a hot topic for people. Anyone who is serving in public office or military is subject to a thorough background investigation. Do you really think that this is something that would have not been discovered by the CIA or other government groups when they conducted a background check. Birth Certificates especially have to be verified. So it may be a great conspiracy story to imagine but the facts do not support the reality and the reality is that President Obama was born in the United States. And if he wasn't, then you have to believe there was a massive coverup and I don't believe that to be the case at all.

This thread is funny. A bunch of unsubstantiated claims about alleged records. Ah, the lengths some will go to criticize Nobama without actually looking at specifics of his POLICIES.

Originally posted by dragonbreath
I dont understand why this is still a hot topic for people.

It's still a hot topic because it allows neo cons and social conservatives and other assorted Republicans to criticize Obama without having to criticize any of his POLICIES, seeing as so many of his policies mirror past GOP administrations, as well as the basic ideas being professed by several current GOP nominees.

I mean, you cant expect these people to criticize Obama for not closing Gitmo, or not repealing the Patriot Act, or any of the other continuation of policies they supported under Bush.

Groups that single out any one president as the problem.... well lets just say its humorous to them.

Most of you still think Ron Paul is one of the few out there against corruption. Unfortunately most will never see the fact..and that fact is everyone is on the payroll.

But hey....what do I know.
I dont care too much what happens to the US or the populace. I use to, but not anymore.

Originally posted by dragonbreath
I dont understand why this is still a hot topic for people. Anyone who is serving in public office or military is subject to a thorough background investigation. Do you really think that this is something that would have not been discovered by the CIA or other government groups when they conducted a background check. Birth Certificates especially have to be verified. So it may be a great conspiracy story to imagine but the facts do not support the reality and the reality is that President Obama was born in the United States. And if he wasn't, then you have to believe there was a massive coverup and I don't believe that to be the case at all.

Don't you see? Obama managed to trick the CIA and every other government group that verified his identity!

Thank god for the internet detectives who have access to cracked copies of adobe photoshop! He might be able to trick the CIA but he'll NEVER be able to get one past these sleuths!

Incrediable .... Wonder how many of the fools that voted for this freak regrett doing so. "yes we can" do what ?
Continue to watch this criminal and his freaks pretend to be "all American" liar in chief. Americans have beome dumb down fat .. super fat morons. Whats left of this country is not worth saving. Just my honest opinion. TSA clowns come to mind with their fat guts and highschool deplomas.

Originally posted by Runaway1977
I thought you yanks were really big on your right to privacy. Then you list a bunch of private documents and complain you have not seen them?

He lost his right to privacy when he became POTUS and because he is President he has no right to privacy as President! We the People are his boss and when we ask this of him he should produce it or leave. Yes he was asked for this stuff before and ignored it all, then he goes against every single campaign promise.
I can tell you that the first time I saw him there was something I didn't like about him as well as McCain and in my eyes it didn't matter which was elected.