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The Burden of Proof

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posted on May, 13 2011 @ 09:28 PM
reply to post by pagan_night

It's still a pointless attempt. Nothing else is ever mentioned from it. Admit it. Nobody knows about it except for "chemtrailers". Nobody cares about it except for "chemtrailers".
Why? Because no one but "chemtrailers" believe it matters.
The point it attempted to make is moot. The HR didn't make it to the floor, did it?
Don't you have anything else to produce than a word in a failed attempt at a HR?
Not the KSLA news report, nor the "chemtrail" hoax video, the video "What in the World are they Spraying?", any picture or video.........I've not seen anything even approaching evidence or proof from a "chemtrailer" since the WITWATS video. And that is wrong.

posted on May, 13 2011 @ 09:44 PM
reply to post by stars15k

True, true. I have gone over hundreds of articles, reports and tests. But, I have to say, that being 45, the best proof I have is my eyes. And remembering what a true blue sky and real clouds look like.

Geo-engineering is real. And even the DOE accepts the Chemtrail phrase in request logs from Los Alamos National Labratory.....

11 correspondence: m~mora~da, documents, reports, recor~s, statement~, ~~dits,
IV' IA AI Ir"I:9 r._.-._ I." Vvl I 11VU "UII' n,,( lists of names, applications, diskettes, ietters, calendars or diary logs, facsimile
logs, call sheets, tape recordings, video. movie recordings, notes, chars,
photographs, electronic mail and other documents sand things that refer or relate to
the "chemtrails" or "geoengineering" research of any other process for weather
modification undertaken by the U.S. Department of Energy, or any of its
edit on 13-5-2011 by pagan_night because: wording

posted on May, 13 2011 @ 09:49 PM
reply to post by pagan_night


The only reference, and word "chemtrails" is in the REQUEST itself!!!

That is only proof of the stupidity of the person(s) filing the FOIA!

posted on May, 13 2011 @ 10:00 PM
reply to post by weedwhacker

Wow, they were also stupid enough to write geo-engineering and weather modification too. And in the same sentence. It is, at least, very interesting wording.

posted on May, 15 2011 @ 06:45 PM
Of course geoengineering is going on - carbon sequestration, "cool roofs" and reforestation are all happening right now.

And there is a heap of publicly available research into future possibilities, including modifying clouds with salt water spray, and "spraying" sulphates into the upper atmosphere to promote cooling.

sulphate spraying is so secret that there are hundreds of papers on Google Scholar about it, they its own wiki page -!!

posted on May, 15 2011 @ 09:00 PM
reply to post by pagan_night

This is one of my favorites. How many of these things do you think are floating around the oceans?

At least they would be doing the right thing in regards to bringing the global temperature down. Cooling the biggest heat sync that exists seems like a much better idea than trying to make some obscure town in Dublin cooler by covering it with a few contrails.

Just because someone thought of it and got a patten, does not make it a real thing.

posted on May, 15 2011 @ 09:49 PM
This is Dutchsinse's new website. Check it out and here is all the information for you. As he says, this is for the non-believers. It is all here. They use metal in those trails for a "lot" of reasons. You'll see.

posted on May, 15 2011 @ 09:56 PM
reply to post by stardust1955

His website is a load of crap.

He is either quite insane, or just having fun making this up....using perfectly normal events and sites, and pulling them together in creative ways, all the time counting on the fact that people are gullible, and usually NOT very scientifically minded....

He shows pictures of weather radar images (just screen caps, to show the moment when the interference patterns were strongest, as GLITCHES occurred in the displays), and photos of various antennas, and some cloud-seeding machines that are ON THE GROUND!! Nothing that is secret, and everything that can be researched, on your own, to see that he is full of it....

You are falling for a charlatan extraordinaire....or, maybe more like that Von Helton idiot, also started on YouTube, just a kook.....

posted on May, 15 2011 @ 10:10 PM

Originally posted by stardust1955
This is Dutchsinse's new website. Check it out and here is all the information for you. As he says, this is for the non-believers. It is all here. They use metal in those trails for a "lot" of reasons. You'll see.


What metal, in what trails, for what reasons?

Patents showing intent do not prove anything is currently going on.

posted on May, 15 2011 @ 10:22 PM
reply to post by GringoViejo

SPEAKING of "patents"....get a load of this.....

Let's say you invented a dog toy, one that you could play the game of "fetch", you might do with a tree branch, or something like that....what would you call that? A piece of wood, shaped like the branch of a tree....hmmm, on the tip of my tongue....

...well, anyway, why not apply for a patent for this "idea" you have? Sure thing!

Presenting (and yes.....this was applied for in 1999, and the patent was actually issued!):

First, the text from the application ---

The actual text is:

An animal toy, comprising: (a) a solid main section having a diameter and a longitudinal length and extending a predetermined distance along said longitudinal length; and (b) at least one protrusion attached at one end thereof said main section and extending a predetermined distance therefrom and wherein said at least one protrusion includes a second longitudinal axis that is not in parallel alignment with a first longitudinal axis of said solid main section; and wherein said animal toy is adapted to float on the water.

Ta Da!!!:

U.S. patent 6,360,693

posted on May, 16 2011 @ 01:10 PM

posted on May, 16 2011 @ 03:53 PM
I've yet to hear a well reasoned argument (or any argument at all), why these enviornmental companies who test soil and water, or send off groundwater, soil and wastewater samples to labs, NEVER FIND THESE CHEMICALS. They actively look for not only many chemicals not mentioned on this site, but all the chemicals and metals I've seen touted as being sprayed in great amounts over our cities.

There is a massive lack of proof in regards to the "spraying." There IS testing, on a massive scale, daily, across the nation. No red flags, no warnings, nothing... because it's not there.

posted on May, 18 2011 @ 09:59 PM
I visited another one of our offices today, I needed to check it out, as I need to support it while another tech is out for a few weeks. One of the things they do and showed me, is make these really cool mobile weather units. It tracks weather and air quality, 24/7. There is a ton of instrumentation inside, and outside as well. Two satellite dishes, and they feed constant data to our office, and the client.

These are in many areas. They track the air quality constantly for some companies.

And STILL... there is NO EVIDENCE of mass spraying.. none!

You folks just have no clue how much actual air, drinking water, groundwater, soil and wastewater testing that goes on EVERY DAY.. in all cities, and in many cases, around the clock! We have these mobile units - we have monitors down wells and in streams. There are daily samples taken and sent to multiple labs across the U.S.

And yet.. people still there there are MASSES of chemicals being sprayed.. because of contrails!

PROOF PEOPLE! You need it. You don't have it. There IS proof that NO chemicals are being sprayed. Tons of proof. You are just too mule-headed to accept the fact that you've been wrong all along.

posted on May, 18 2011 @ 10:15 PM

Originally posted by fleabit

You folks just have no clue how much actual air, drinking water, groundwater, soil and wastewater testing that goes on EVERY DAY.. in all cities, and in many cases, around the clock!

Her's somethgn that's quite odd - california Skywatch have several links to water testing in various counties in California.

The one I've had a look through is Marin -

You know what the water samples show there? Every 3 or 4 months they have a day or 2 with high aluminium...but their "high" level of 600 is still well lower than the EPA "limit" of 2000!!

Eg here's a test over 2 weeks in august 2007 -

And their Barium levels are usually 100....until you realise that 100 is the miniumum detectable level!!

Eg here's levels from 2002-2004 -

and from 2005-2010 -

it's just mindboggling that they can link to evidence that shows there's no problem at all...and then still claim that there is a problem!!

posted on May, 18 2011 @ 10:39 PM
My main issue is this:

If the only testing done were government testing.. yea, ok.. I could understand the theory that they are covering up the test results.

But.. ironically, it's the government enforcing clean soil, water and air! The EPA is a Federal Government agency! If you do not meet their criteria, you are heavily fined. These fines can be quite staggering. They will fine commercial agencies as well as other government agencies for not meeting their requirements.

So, the government uses their own agency to basically force -everyone- to meet their standards. For larger commercial companies, this absolutely necessitates the need for testing by environmental companies, who rely on not only their own tests, but external labs to validate their results.

This testing is extensive and ongoing. For companies doing a cleanup, this can be daily for years, literally. I've been to some of our field offices - they fill drums and drums of soil for testing. They are in cities, around cities, around military bases and in forests, etc.

If they were doing spraying that was SO HEAVY, that it lasted for hours, left fogs, left clouds.. there is absolutely no way these would go undetected by all the testing that goes on. Environmental companies would have to report it. Commercial companies would have to clean it up. But.. THERE.. IS.. NOTHING.. THERE!

Nothing aside from the expected results typically. Or in other words, if a site was being cleaned up for a specific chemical, those might be higher as expected. But other chemicals, metals, etc... would certainly show up. And they are not. This entire chemspraying business is a fantasy. They may be doing some seeding and testing in some very specific areas, but I doubt any of it is malicious. There is no doubt in my mind that the nefarious and mysterious spraying theory people come up with here, is utter bunk though.

posted on May, 21 2011 @ 09:03 AM

Originally posted by pagan_night
reply to post by v0ice0freas0n

How do they form in rural areas that have very little, if any, air traffic?

So, for all of us here, can you explain why rural areas should not have aircraft flying overhead?

posted on May, 24 2011 @ 10:24 AM
I'm still patiently waiting for a reply from the chemfolks - why, if there is daily spraying over major cities in vast quantities, does nothing show up on local groundwater, soil and drinking water samples, which are done by private corporations, and sent to multiple labs for verification?

If you can't explain this, then your entire premise of mass chemicals being sprayed is utter rubbish.

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