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When did you start/stop believing in chemtrails

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posted on May, 17 2011 @ 01:53 PM
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reply to post by adeclerk
 


And those of you who choose not to see the evidence or to change the focus to something else will continue to do so.




posted on May, 17 2011 @ 01:55 PM
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Well to be honest, they're describing huge big grey animals from Africa with big ears, thin tails, hard rough skin, massive legs, tusks, a 'trumpeting sound' when angered, that live in family units and display a considerable degree of sentience. You think they're cows. But they sound like elephants to me.
reply to post by Essan
 


Well they're elephants to me too! If it looks like an elephant, walks like an elephant, and trumpets like an elephant...it's an elephant.



posted on May, 17 2011 @ 01:57 PM
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I was "all in" the minute I researched Silver Iodide cloud seeding...

There's no telling what's in jet fuel, just look at what they put in our water supplies....



posted on May, 17 2011 @ 01:58 PM
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Originally posted by SaveTheWolves
reply to post by adeclerk
 


And those of you who choose not to see the evidence or to change the focus to something else will continue to do so.

You seem to be confused about evidence, here is a definition: Evidence: noun, The available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid.

Notice how "chemtrails" have no verifiable facts or information pertinent to them? That is the lack of evidence in the "chemtrail" hoax. You need to make decisions on what you believe based on facts or evidence, not how you feel or what you "see" (especially since perception and memory are notoriously unreliable).



posted on May, 17 2011 @ 02:00 PM
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Originally posted by SaveTheWolves



Well to be honest, they're describing huge big grey animals from Africa with big ears, thin tails, hard rough skin, massive legs, tusks, a 'trumpeting sound' when angered, that live in family units and display a considerable degree of sentience. You think they're cows. But they sound like elephants to me.
reply to post by Essan
 


Well they're elephants to me too! If it looks like an elephant, walks like an elephant, and trumpets like an elephant...it's an elephant.

So a "chemtrail" looks like a contrail, behaves like a contrail would be expected to behave, and has no evidence supporting that it is anything but a cloud of ice crystals/condensed water vapor, and yet it's a chemtrail? Odd.
edit on 5/17/11 by adeclerk because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 17 2011 @ 02:03 PM
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reply to post by adeclerk
 


Typical reply from you people...insulting the intelligence of other people. That's all you know how to do to keep your agenda afloat. Go ahead, keep your head in the sand if that's what lets you sleep at night.



posted on May, 17 2011 @ 02:06 PM
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reply to post by adeclerk
 


If it's an elephant breathing down your back, looking at a cow and describing the cow isn't going to make the elephant disappear.


If it's a contrail, it's a contrail.
If it's a chemtrail, it's a chemtrail.



posted on May, 17 2011 @ 02:07 PM
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Originally posted by SaveTheWolves
reply to post by adeclerk
 


Typical reply from you people...insulting the intelligence of other people. That's all you know how to do to keep your agenda afloat. Go ahead, keep your head in the sand if that's what lets you sleep at night.


Here is a link on critical thinking, it's what debunkers do. By failing to use critical thinking, "chemtrailers" appear unintelligent, especially since they take the whole "chemtrail" idea on faith alone.



posted on May, 17 2011 @ 02:17 PM
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Originally posted by Uncinus
ATS Members, what's your story?

  1. When (what year)did you first hear of chemtrails, and what was your initial impression?
  2. Did you notice persistent trails before or after you heard of chemtrails?
  3. Did your belief ever change? When was that?
  4. What happened after the change? Did you drop it, or switch sides in the discussion?


(also, it would be interesting to hear where you were living at the various times, to see if location plays a role at all).

Personally I first heard of chemtrails in early 2007, at the time I though there was not enough evidence to support the theory, and I explained this. Nothing has changed there.

edit on 13-5-2011 by Uncinus because: Made list numeric for easy answers

edit on 13-5-2011 by Uncinus because: added "what year"


1. A few years ago, i didn't really have an opinion
2. There never was persistent trails, they always faded away as the plane was still near them
3. My first sighting of them was not long back, so i started a thread here on ATS Chemtrails in Ireland
4. I have now seen them on a few different days since, have some photo's too, which i might add to that thread above later

P.S there are plenty of sighting here in Ireland www.flickr.com...



posted on May, 17 2011 @ 02:20 PM
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reply to post by longwinter
 


So would you say that before you noticed them in Ireland, they did not exist in Ireland?



posted on May, 17 2011 @ 02:24 PM
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I wish for once a debunker could admit a few facts.

Burning jet fuel produces chemicals...as does burning any type of fuel.

Jet engines have an exhaust, just like the tail pipe on your car. Chemicals come out of that exhaust.

Sometimes, when the conditions are right, a contrail will form out of the jet exhaust.

Contrails contain chemicals from that exhaust.

(it doesn't just disappear into thin air...it comes back down on us one way or another)

Are they killing us? I don't know. I'm sure they affect us in some way.

Is breathing in car exhaust fumes good for us?

If chemtrail debunkers can't understand this, I have no use for them. Might as well be paid shills.
edit on 17-5-2011 by Signals because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 17 2011 @ 02:26 PM
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reply to post by longwinter
 


Allow me to point this out, and hopefully explain something --- it goes to the core of this false assumption regarding contrails, and persistence:


2. There never was persistent trails, they always faded away as the plane was still near them


Here is how it works: On days and when conditions are such that NO CIRRUS clouds are present, sometimes those short-lived contrails will appear. This, because the temperature/humidity levels are just "on edge", between NO contrails, and PERSISTENT contrails. They form, because of the effects of the engines, and the exhaust heat, but they cannot sustain because they sublimate rather quickly.

Contrast that to days when conditions are ripe for CIRRUS to also form. Contrails then, when formed, will tend to remain...but, you didn't always notice them as contrails initially....because they resemble CIRRUS clouds so perfectly.

Do you understand??



posted on May, 17 2011 @ 02:31 PM
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Originally posted by Signals
I wish for once a debunker could admit a few facts.

Burning jet fuel produces chemicals...as does burning any type of fuel.

Jet engines have an exhaust, just like the tail pipe on your car. Chemicals come out of that exhaust.

Sometimes, when the conditions are right, a contrail will form out of the jet exhaust.

Contrails contain chemicals from that exhaust.

(it doesn't just disappear into thin air...it comes back down on us one way or another)

Are they killing us? I don't know. I'm sure they affect us in some way.

Is breathing in car exhaust fumes good for us?

If chemtrail debunkers can't understand this, I have no use for them. Might as well be paid shills.


I'd admit all those facts, but what has that got to do with the chemtrail theory? Engines produce pollution. Surely the theory says more than that?



posted on May, 17 2011 @ 02:31 PM
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reply to post by SaveTheWolves
 


Exactly


Now you know why some of us are confused about this obsession with calling elephants, cows

reply to post by Signals
 


Exactly. Although you're subject to much more chemicals from car exhausts. However, that's not the issue - we all know that aircraft engines produce pollutants. They always have done. So have scooters.



posted on May, 17 2011 @ 02:42 PM
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reply to post by Uncinus
 


Well I'm no expert but from my understanding a "Chemtrailer" would now explain that "they" are adding more stuff to the jet fuel to control populations, give us cancer, make us sick...etc.

Based on our government's history, why does that sound so crazy to a "Contrailer"?

Lithium in our water, radiation, Corexit, Mercury, Flouride...It only makes sense they're poisoning our air too!

Why is that so far-fetched to "debunkers"?

Seems like we should move on and figure out what they really are spraying instead of pointless debates about weather chemicals are being sprayed, they most certainly are, to disagree with that would be to disagree with car exhaust being bad if breathed in.



posted on May, 17 2011 @ 02:45 PM
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reply to post by Signals
 


Let's zero-in.....and put on your thinking caps:



Jet engines have an exhaust, just like the tail pipe on your car. Chemicals come out of that exhaust.

Sometimes, when the conditions are right, a contrail will form out of the jet exhaust.



Jet engines make an exhaust...ALL THE TIME! From the time they are started, during push-back from the gate, until they are shut down on arrival AT the destination (or, on long ground delays, while parked on the ramp).

But, much like the similar exhaust gases from a car, or any other internal-combustion engine, you usually cannot see it. (Exceptions, as you know, due to contaminates, like excess oil leakage into the exhaust system, and/or other problems with that particular engine...mechanical defects in today's mostly clean-burning engine technologies).

With airplanes, sometimes when conditions are right, a contrail will form, because of not just the exhaust, but the heat supplied from the engine, and the presence of the particulates in the exhaust, AND any that may also have already been there too, in the air itself, before the engine encountered it!

CIRRUS clouds will form, no problem (when conditions are conducive) quite naturally, and without ANY airplane needed! Similar reason, except the engine, and intense heat, forms *instant* clouds. The process is slower, in the *natural* way...but both processes require nuclei....condensation nuclei....in the form of very, very tiny particles of some sort, for the ice crystals to form around. Even what looks like "clear" air has these microscopic particles, it varies of course, constantly.

Other things that vary are temperature and relative humidity. This is not alchemy, it's not magic, it's well-known science......








edit on Tue 17 May 2011 by weedwhacker because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 17 2011 @ 02:46 PM
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reply to post by Signals
 


It's not about if it sounds crazy or not. It's about if there's any evidence that it's happening.

Repeated requests for evidence are ignored. Nobody has ever demonstrated that a chemtrail is in any way different to a regular persistent contrail, and nor have they produced any evidence or any kind of active spray program.

Most of the discussion though is around the many false statements that the chemtrailers make, like "contrails can't persist more than a few seconds", or "finding aluminum in the water proves they are spraying it from the sky"



posted on May, 17 2011 @ 02:47 PM
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reply to post by Uncinus
 


The trying to put words in my mouth thing will not work in this case, (no insult intended btw)


so i'll just say this...

I have been looking to the sky's all my life, and i never saw what i saw that day, and i have seen plenty of contrails, but that does not mean too much as in, i might not have been outside to look up to see them if they were there on other days, but i have given you links to where other people in Ireland have seen them on other occasions, does this answer your query?



posted on May, 17 2011 @ 02:49 PM
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reply to post by Signals
 


You cannot just "add" stuff to jet fuel!!

This is covered at great length, already in several threads. I will try to find the best post, by Alyoisius the Gaul (I believe) that was yesterday, or day before.....covered it perfectly, and succinctly.....



posted on May, 17 2011 @ 02:53 PM
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Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by longwinter
 


Allow me to point this out, and hopefully explain something --- it goes to the core of this false assumption regarding contrails, and persistence:


2. There never was persistent trails, they always faded away as the plane was still near them


Here is how it works: On days and when conditions are such that NO CIRRUS clouds are present, sometimes those short-lived contrails will appear. This, because the temperature/humidity levels are just "on edge", between NO contrails, and PERSISTENT contrails. They form, because of the effects of the engines, and the exhaust heat, but they cannot sustain because they sublimate rather quickly.

Contrast that to days when conditions are ripe for CIRRUS to also form. Contrails then, when formed, will tend to remain...but, you didn't always notice them as contrails initially....because they resemble CIRRUS clouds so perfectly.

Do you understand??


I shall refer you to Human_Alien's thread Contrails (chemtrails) mentioned on RTE Weather Report and this fine video



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