GOD is sad... please listen to this my Brothers and Sisters, page 7


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ATS Members have flagged this thread 40 times


reply posted on 14-5-2011 @ 10:28 AM by TerryMcGuire
reply to post by JudasIscariot


Judas. I followed this thread and throughout was taken by a sense of nobleness in your replies. It may not be my place , but I would like to offer you a link to a song I found 30 years ago which portrays Judas in a noble light.

Stand Up for Judas


reply posted on 14-5-2011 @ 10:53 AM by AQuestion
Originally posted by gabby2011
Originally posted by AQuestion
Originally posted by gabby2011

There are some who believe in God, and that is their right, and some who don't believe, and that is their right as well.

I myself, have jumped back and between the two for the last few years, because I don't understand a God who allows so much corruption to take place.

I know some of you say ..well that is not God ,that is man. But does that mean man is better than God, because man will step in and stop an injustice from happening? If there is a God, I'm sure he is angry,and sad. But yet I do not understand a diety that creates many things, yet many of these "creatures" survive by eating each other.

Do we really have free will? Are we free to choose the family we are born into? We all are born innocent and vulnerable, needing to be guided and shown..so does that make the muslim across the ocean more evil , because he/she was taught and their minds and hearts were formed by what was around them?

I could go on, but I think that is enough for now. I do not mean to say those that have faith are wrong, I admire that they can have faith, something I used to have . Now I have questions, and my soul searches for the answers.
edit on 13-5-2011 by gabby2011 because: (no reason given)


Dear Gabby2011,

A God that creates Club Med or nothing. How can there be growth without pain, how can there be creation without discomfort, how can we escape eternal boredom without mistakes. Answer those questions and you answer yourself.


Dear AQuestion,
Did I say that life should be a club med?? No....for many, there seems to be enough strife in life just getting shelter and food to eat, fighting off storms,and floods. But to say that having to endure pain is a way of knowing love, is sort of like beating a child, so it will appreciate your "love" when you are not. I'm tired of hearing that unless we can appreciate evil for what it is, we cannot understand good.

This all reminds me of JOB, and it seems like it is a twisted and sadistic God who would let his ego kill off a whole family and nearly destroy a mans life entirely just to prove something to the devil. I mean really, a good loving father would have told the devil to take a hike..cause he's full of it.

Just another example of the twisted love I see in the bible by a supposedly loving God...who calls himself a father.
By the way AQuestion, if you ever see your children tortured raped,and then killed in front of your eyes, and you had all the power in this universe to stop it..and you do nothing,, cause people have "free will"...then you will have become much like the father in heaven you adore.

I'm a little pissed that you think I want life to be a club med..(rolls eyes up)..no I just want some justice, and it it does seem to me that humans are more willing to lay down their lives for it, than a God who sits back and watches it all happen, over and over again..for whatever lame reason.


Dear Gabby2011,

I use the club med question for everyone. If you prefer, how much challenge should we have and how much free will should we have? We are not perfect and we will hurt one another till we learn. I am 51, I have made lots of money and lost it all because my ex-wife chose to cheat on me and the court rewarded her bad behaviour by giving her my money and giving me her debt. I laugh at it. I have lost all of my elders and half my friends. I have been told I should be dead by my doctors and the jerks haven't been right yet. Those who know me use the Job metaphor for my life and I am okay with that, I am still here and still a jerk myself.

We don't konw what effects things will have on our life till much later. My father died in my arms, he died from chemotherapy not cancer, it destroyed his organs. I got to watch and I also got to be with him when he died. The moment he died was the hardest I had experience up till then and the greatest, I got to be with him and he got to know that he was not alone when he left this earth. While I was losing my house because of the divorce I allowed four homeless people to live with me (I had a big house and couldn't see empty rooms when there was need). What I learned from my fathers death I was able to pass on to one of my best friends as his son was dying, I now live in an apartment owned by that friend. I didn't see that coming; but, it did.

Pain sucks; but, we can go through it and grow more. You have survived every pain that you ever experienced, what did you learn from it, would you give up what you learned for comfort. When my wife cheated on me, my brother told me, "There are some lessons that you wish you didn't have to learn (his significant other had cheated on him during their decades long relationship). But I did learn the lesson and I don't mind having learned, I wish she had not been a cheater; but, cheaters exist and that is not God's fault, not the fault of the other man, it is her fault because she had taken vows with me, she broke them, not God and not the other man. Tough lesson; but, I am still here and better off.

God did not cheat on me, my ex-wife did, I blame her. God did not pick her, I chose her and married her. I take responsibility for my choices. Job would have lost what he lost anyways, the Devil just got to see Job stand up to it. People die, I know that for sure, so will I and so will you. Read about near death experiences and you will understand it all turns out well in the end. This life is a place to learn, not a place to relax, gotta learn to be an adult, to define yourself and to move on to the next realm. If there is no next realm then what does it mattter anyways. Be well.


reply posted on 14-5-2011 @ 12:28 PM by laffoe
reply to post by JudasIscariot


I am grateful for your contribution to this thread.
Not offended in any way.
We could all only hope to live up to the standard of our Jesus.
We all judge, our egos experience the world that way,
I'm no better than you.
We can only hope to look past our egoes and align with the infinite and
genuine Love which pulsates within our Universe.
I only wish the best for you and have nothing but appreciation, love and respect
for you.
Even we probably doesn't agree in everything, we are both here at this place at the same time.
I believe that's for a purpose.
Take care.




reply posted on 14-5-2011 @ 12:43 PM by gabby2011
reply to post by AQuestion


hunh?? Job would have lost everything anyhow?? yes..I agree we are not perfect and obviously that includes your wife. Why are we not perfect??..did God create us this way? why?..so He could save the day by offering the blood of his son for atonement?..all sounds a lil silly and rather sadistic if you ask me. To compare yourself to JOB who lost ALL his children , is a little much in my eyes as well.

The fact remains that christianity is all based on blood sacrifice for atonement from the old testament to the new,
and that is something just ..well..um..dark and sadistic to me.

I have the right to question things AQuestion....and the more I read the bible the more the bible God seems like a hypocrite to me..
#1 God say ..though shall not kill...yet He himself is responsible for countless deaths in the old testament...
#2 He says he wants people to tythe to the church..what does God need money for? Most religious organizations I know have way too much money and secretly weild power and manipulate politically with those resources. (catholic church and all its orders that take the vow of poverty come to mind)
#3 God says he wants us to give to the poor, ..does he give to the poor? the poor are helping the poor and some of the rich do, but most of them help for ego gratification and tax purposes, and give to charities that help themselves before others.
I could go on with other examples I see, and hopefully if there is a God I will get to ask Him many questions I have for him that the logical brain He supposedly gave me asks.

If he casts me away because I had no "blind" faith, then I really don't want to be with Him anyways.

But look at the bright side..when your exwife asks Him for forgiveness, she'll be singing beside you and your children in heaven..

I wish you the best

edit on 14-5-2011 by gabby2011 because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 14-5-2011 @ 02:29 PM by AQuestion
Originally posted by gabby2011
reply to post by AQuestion


hunh?? Job would have lost everything anyhow?? yes..I agree we are not perfect and obviously that includes your wife. Why are we not perfect??..did God create us this way? why?..so He could save the day by offering the blood of his son for atonement?..all sounds a lil silly and rather sadistic if you ask me. To compare yourself to JOB who lost ALL his children , is a little much in my eyes as well.

The fact remains that christianity is all based on blood sacrifice for atonement from the old testament to the new,
and that is something just ..well..um..dark and sadistic to me.

I have the right to question things AQuestion....and the more I read the bible the more the bible God seems like a hypocrite to me..
#1 God say ..though shall not kill...yet He himself is responsible for countless deaths in the old testament...
#2 He says he wants people to tythe to the church..what does God need money for? Most religious organizations I know have way too much money and secretly weild power and manipulate politically with those resources. (catholic church and all its orders that take the vow of poverty come to mind)
#3 God says he wants us to give to the poor, ..does he give to the poor? the poor are helping the poor and some of the rich do, but most of them help for ego gratification and tax purposes, and give to charities that help themselves before others.
I could go on with other examples I see, and hopefully if there is a God I will get to ask Him many questions I have for him that the logical brain He supposedly gave me asks.

If he casts me away because I had no "blind" faith, then I really don't want to be with Him anyways.

But look at the bright side..when your exwife asks Him for forgiveness, she'll be singing beside you and your children in heaven..

I wish you the best

edit on 14-5-2011 by gabby2011 because: (no reason given)


Dear gabby2011,

Actually, it was others that compared me to Job. You should question the bible, questions are good. As for the ex (a church goer), she told me she could not sin and didn't want my forgiveness. She was quite proud of her actions for awhile, then not so much. God does not ask for blind faith, some people who claim to be Christians do, I tell them that they pervert the word. I believe God has enough forgiveness for everyone. He didn't make us perfect, we get to decide who and what we become and we don't decide perfectly. I would not like a perfect world. I forgave the ex and the other man. As for my kids, yeah I almost lost one of them and I still didn't curse out God or blame him. Be well.


reply posted on 14-5-2011 @ 03:58 PM by gabby2011
reply to post by AQuestion


I'm happy to hear you hold no grudges against your ex wife. I would like to hear her side of the story though..before I make judgement on what you say happened.

But all that aside...I don't write to ridicule your faith, just write what my emotions are struggling with. I find free will to be a bit of a farce, considering we have laws that prevent free will...and rightfully so.

If there is a loving God,I'm sure he would understand why I struggle with the concepts in the bible, and with the way I see things now.

Some say God is angry now, hence the floods and famines..etc. But once again God is punishing the masses instead of the truly evil ones, who sit far above the danger....and even perhaps manipulate what they can to cause the danger.

(shrugs) I don't know Aquestion...all I know is that I don't want to belittle your faith, that is not my intention.
My intention is purely to be HONEST about the frustrations I feel inside about the god of the bible.

One thing I do know for sure, is that I'm not the brightest lightbulb on the block, AND I am terrible speller and I need to get spell check .



reply posted on 14-5-2011 @ 04:10 PM by Akragon
reply to post by gabby2011


If there is a loving God,I'm sure he would understand why I struggle with the concepts in the bible, and with the way I see things now


what don't you understand, perhaps i can help




reply posted on 14-5-2011 @ 04:34 PM by gabby2011
Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by gabby2011


If there is a loving God,I'm sure he would understand why I struggle with the concepts in the bible, and with the way I see things now


what don't you understand, perhaps i can help



Thats very sweet of you, and I will give you the main concept I struggle with. That would be the sacrifice of animals in the old testament for the atonement of sin...and the sacrifice of a human, (or Gods son) for atonement.

I just don't get it..why can't repentance and a sincere will do be different be enough. What bothers me worse is that for decades I truly believed we were eating the flesh and blood of Jesus in the eucharist , at catholic masses.

This is in their dogma ,and when I think about it, it seems ridiculous..to eat the heart of your God so you can be cleansed, and purified??? (shakes head in dismay)

Ok..You might say..well thats just the catholics..but.. ALL christians believe that the blood of Jesus saves us from sin. It seems so medieval , and..I don't know how to put it...except that it feels creepy.

Honestly when I read the old testament, I get scared of God, and its like He wants it that way.
It seems its all about His ego, to the point of making Abraham (think it was him) bring his eldest son to a mountain top to sacrifice to God, untill
of course God stopped him...????what the ??? what kinda head games is that???

Thankyou for your offer of help..and I mean that sincerely..this is just some of which I struggle with.

Don't feel bad if you don't have the answers to help me..the fact that you offered shows me a spirit that is good, and to me that is what truly matters in the end.







reply posted on 14-5-2011 @ 04:37 PM by AQuestion
reply to post by gabby2011


Dear gabby2011,

It is not a spelling contest and I would not have brought it up. Another thread was started saying that all believers should be taken away by God so that the good people can fix this place. There is a lot of hate against religious people. There are a lot of fools in the church and false prophets. I reserve the right to tell them to get out of our churches when they teach the perversion of the word.

The ex-wife's side. Bi-Polar and a mid-life crisis. We had been through a lot, cared for my dad and then another elderly woman, a full time job. She wanted excitement, short answer. Having said that, adultery is never justified. You can get out of a marriage without commiting adultery in the United States. When I thought I was going to die, I prayed for them both.

As for God, there is a line in the bible that says many will come to Jesus saying oh, lord and he will say depart from me for I never knew you. That doesn't sound like everyone who claims to be a believer gets saved. My fight is not with Atheists, it is with those who pretend to be Christians and are not. I believe Benny Hinn is a scumbag who perverts the truth. Some go into the church just to make money. At the church I attended they did not pass around the hat and money was never mentioned. Only members contributed or even knew how to.

I believe what Jesus said, Love God with all your heart and your neighbor as yourself and sometimes we all need correcting, it also says that God corrects the one's he loves. I believe we have done a bad job of routing out miscreants from the church, too many churches are focused on gaining converts and winning people over. That focus is not what we are told, we need to focus on our hearts and being of service. Because the churches focused on the wrong things, bad shepherds were allowed in.

Jimmy Swaggert and Jim Baker are good examples of bad Shepherds. Yet, Swaggert was allowed to run his church again because of the money he brought in. Some people (mainly atheists) have attempted to tell me that I shouldn't take other Christians to task, I see it the exact opposite way. Take them to task and make it public so that it is clear that we don't agree with them. Some will say that we should do it in private (it begins that way) so that non-believers won't take it as a reason to continue in their disbelief. The Catholic church should have taken the pedophile priests to jail and turned them in, in public and not hidden it, that is why so many Catholics are leaving the church.

For those who question the bible and are trying to understand, I say don't start with the bible. It can be very hard to understand even for believers. It seems to me that non-believers generally get there because someone tried to force them to believe and didn't live it themselves. We are imperfect. I know I am, I try to do good and still fail sometimes and I never do it perfectly.

Free will and getting to do what you want are not quite the same. We get to choose; but, the choices are sometimes limited. When my father was dying I had to make choices for him and they were often between two horrible options, there was no good option because they could not save him. Still I got to choose.

There is too much "throw the baby out with the bathwater" talk about religion. More churches and colleges were started by Catholics than any other group, I am not Catholic; but, I have been in their hospitals. Heck one of my daughters miscarried in one a little while back and they gave her very good care. People talk about all the jerks in the church, they never mention any of the good that these organizations did. Find me any organization that doesn't have miscreants.

Oh, I said to not start with the bible. I didn't, I left the church at 12 and did not return till I was 26. I say start with what you know, you know you are a self aware being, sentience. You know there are other senitient beings. Where did the sentience come from? Then be open to the possibility there may be a bigger sentience that knows more that we do. We can try and understand it by looking at the progression in the bible, the evolution of the story. It starts out with us screwing up, says we are imperfect and that we never will be perfect. A tough sell even today.

Tithing. The Israelites chose to not have direct conversations with God, they asked Moses to do it and then they asked for rules and broke them all immediately and continually. Paul said he was the biggest sinner of all, he knew he wasn't perfect. How can imperfect people possibly give a perfect answer for God. We justify our actions too much to give a perfect answer. One of the things I argue with Christians over is the belief that some hold that you must know the name of Jesus to be saved, Moses didn't know his name; but, he knew him because he knew his soul, his way of loving one another unto death.

I read about Christians who want to go up in the rapture before the end times, I consider them unloving and cowards. It may happen that way; but, if they truly love others they will want to be here to help out.


reply posted on 14-5-2011 @ 05:20 PM by Akragon
reply to post by gabby2011


That would be the sacrifice of animals in the old testament for the atonement of sin...and the sacrifice of a human, (or Gods son) for atonement.


Well, back in those times they believed such foolishness. It was simply a lack of understanding of exactly what "God" is. It seems to be they believed God is this mystical creator of the universe that lives in the clouds. Somehow they thought through sacrifice their sins were absolved. They had the idea, but violence towards anything is not needed. The real sacrifice is the denial of the needs of the flesh.

I just don't get it..why can't repentance and a sincere will do be different be enough. What bothers me worse is that for decades I truly believed we were eating the flesh and blood of Jesus in the eucharist , at catholic masses.

This is in their dogma ,and when I think about it, it seems ridiculous..to eat the heart of your God so you can be cleansed, and purified???


This is just a silly ritual, and clearly shows their lack of understanding of scripture. The blood and flesh of christ is his words and his actions. The little biscuit they give you represents the body of christ but not the actual flesh of him. The body meaning, the way he lived his life.... He was "the way" or even the Narrow path which so few can walk.

Here...

33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.

34 Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.

35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.


And i was going to get to this

Ok..You might say..well thats just the catholics..but.. ALL christians believe that the blood of Jesus saves us from sin. It seems so medieval , and..I don't know how to put it...except that it feels creepy.


Even to this day people don't understand the meaning of this. The ritual is supposed to be symbolistic, but its completely pointless if you're just doing the actions and not living the life. As if once you eat the cracker and drink your grape juice everything becomes clear... Rediculious honestly...

51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

So....IF you love all, and judge no one, you walk the path. Thus your spirit progresses.... What he gave us (the flesh) is the path he walked and preached. He led by example...

52 The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat?


They didn't get it... probably thought he was talking about canibalism....

53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.


OR...walk his path... Your spirit progresses or even evolves?


54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.

56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.

57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.

58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.


I appoligise for all the scripture quotes, but he explains it perfectly in these verses...


60 Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?


They didn't get it either... but its actually quite simple to understand. Now walking this path....Not easy


61 When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?

62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?

63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

As he states, the spirit is what grows. The needs of the flesh are useless... But his words are the path of the spirit. Truely they are life.

Honestly when I read the old testament, I get scared of God, and its like He wants it that way.
It seems its all about His ego, to the point of making Abraham (think it was him) bring his eldest son to a mountain top to sacrifice to God, untill
of course God stopped him...????what the ??? what kinda head games is that???


Remember this book wasn't written by God... Inspired perhaps but not by the hand of God. You'll find the God of the OT condones many things, but again remember....written by man. God does not condone murder... God has no reason to harm his creations. Again this is just lack of understanding of what God is...

Thankyou for your offer of help..and I mean that sincerely..this is just some of which I struggle with.

Don't feel bad if you don't have the answers to help me..the fact that you offered shows me a spirit that is good, and to me that is what truly matters in the end.


Please by all means if you have other questions ask away, i love helping people understand scripture for some reason.





reply posted on 14-5-2011 @ 05:48 PM by AQuestion
Originally posted by gabby2011
sorry I had to bring up the spelling, cause my ego is very bothered by it. I didn't mean to imply you were judging me by it AQuestion, because you don't come across as that type at all.

I thankyou for taking the time to try and explain your concepts and perceptions to me, and while most of it makes sense to me, some of it leaves me confused.

What I do believe is that you are a good person , and admire that in you , and am grateful people like you walk this planet.

As I have asked others who strongly believe in Jesus, I ask you to pray to Him for me.
That He may reveal his truths and wisdom, so that I may understand and see clearly the path He wishes for me.

I admire all people who are willing to do good, regardless of what faith they have.


Dear gabby2011,

I agree heartily and am happy to pray for you. I don't about asking him to reveal himself. The God I believe in touches our heart when we love and that is him knowing us back. I am not a television Christian. I am much more focued on love and service than chapter and verse. Plenty of decent people out there. There are "good" atheists (my brother), occultists, Jews, Muslims, Buddists and agnostics. There are people that will run into a burning building or take a bullet for others. Because I was asked to help someone out I met a young nurse who was travelling to the United States, I had to pick her up and take her to a car rental place. No big deal, she introduced herself by telling me that in addition to being a nurse turns out she was a heroin using dominatrix. What a pair we made. Well her plans got stalled and she ended up staying at my house for a few days along with my three daughters and I. When the Haiti thing happened I got a e-mail from her, she took off like 6 weeks and helped with her nursing skills for free and she was an atheist to of sorts.

There are many people (Christians and non-believers) that would have chided me for doing this; but, I believe that God brings people into our lives for a reason. She still stays in contact with one of my daughters and I am pretty sure she went to Japan to help out. I can see the good in others even those who don't share my beliefs, shame is too many of them cannot see the good in any believers. You are not included in that statement, there are other non-believers who are open also.


reply posted on 14-5-2011 @ 06:00 PM by Akragon
Originally posted by AQuestion
Originally posted by Akragon
Originally posted by gabby2011
Another thing I have a real problem with is when people say "remember the bible was written by man, so you can't take it literally", then they go and recite scripture to point something out as an explanation.

It's like a game of pick and choose what is right, and what is not. Its very very confusing, and I'm sure not just to me.

But once again I sincerely thankyou for taking the time to at least try and explain, and not to scoff at me.

Like I said before, that in itself shows the true character that I admire.

edit on 14-5-2011 by gabby2011 because: (no reason given)


Consider this...

Though the bible was written by man, within the pages there is one whos written about that was "sent" from God. IF you believe the words he speaks to be true, the rest of the bible actually doesn't matter in the least.



Dear Akragon,

I will agree to a point. The truth of the message is in Jesus' words to love God with all your heart and your neighbor as yourself. Still, I think the old testament is a good way to see how we progressed overtime. We started as complete jerks and started to learn. I like the story of Ruth. I like the lessons of Ecclesiastes. Whethere one is a believer or not, there is some good advice in there.


I can't deny that the bible is an amazing read even if you take the entire thing as pure fiction. There are great lessons, stories of love and betrayal. Heroism....i mean its all in there!

The real problem is people take the entire bible as written by God, which also means "it must be all true".

This believe just leads to judgement of others, especially if you get the bible preached to you instead of actually reading it yourself.




reply posted on 14-5-2011 @ 06:07 PM by AmrikazNightmar3
reply to post by Akragon


Drug use/tattoos... I have both in my life. I'd like to hear your thoughts on them from what you've understood from the scriptures.


reply posted on 14-5-2011 @ 06:28 PM by AQuestion
reply to post by Akragon


Dear Akragon,

I do hope you have noticed that I have not told anyone that God wrote the bible, I have not said that. I also tell people that there are some pretty bad people passing as Pastors. I think everyone should read the bible at least once, it has impacted this world a bit (good or bad as you may see it, more of both like everything else). I don't believe God wrote the bible and the New Testament certainly says that people were writing it. Paul wrote letters to churches that he had been to (and some he had not). I see it as people's attempt to say what they saw and experienced. If I tell three people a story about what I did in Hawaii, each person will get something differant, not wrong just differant and some may actually miscommunicate it; but, I did go to Hawaii and see a volcano. You might try and explain what I said about the drive around the volcano and someone else might remember what I said about the heat, depending on the point you wish to make or your audieance you might focus on a differant aspect.
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