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Originally posted by gabby2011
Originally posted by AQuestion
Originally posted by gabby2011
There are some who believe in God, and that is their right, and some who don't believe, and that is their right as well.
I myself, have jumped back and between the two for the last few years, because I don't understand a God who allows so much corruption to take place.
I know some of you say ..well that is not God ,that is man. But does that mean man is better than God, because man will step in and stop an injustice from happening? If there is a God, I'm sure he is angry,and sad. But yet I do not understand a diety that creates many things, yet many of these "creatures" survive by eating each other.
Do we really have free will? Are we free to choose the family we are born into? We all are born innocent and vulnerable, needing to be guided and shown..so does that make the muslim across the ocean more evil , because he/she was taught and their minds and hearts were formed by what was around them?
I could go on, but I think that is enough for now. I do not mean to say those that have faith are wrong, I admire that they can have faith, something I used to have . Now I have questions, and my soul searches for the answers.
edit on 13-5-2011 by gabby2011 because: (no reason given)
Dear Gabby2011,
A God that creates Club Med or nothing. How can there be growth without pain, how can there be creation without discomfort, how can we escape eternal boredom without mistakes. Answer those questions and you answer yourself.
Dear AQuestion,
Did I say that life should be a club med?? No....for many, there seems to be enough strife in life just getting shelter and food to eat, fighting off storms,and floods. But to say that having to endure pain is a way of knowing love, is sort of like beating a child, so it will appreciate your "love" when you are not. I'm tired of hearing that unless we can appreciate evil for what it is, we cannot understand good.
This all reminds me of JOB, and it seems like it is a twisted and sadistic God who would let his ego kill off a whole family and nearly destroy a mans life entirely just to prove something to the devil. I mean really, a good loving father would have told the devil to take a hike..cause he's full of it.
Just another example of the twisted love I see in the bible by a supposedly loving God...who calls himself a father.
By the way AQuestion, if you ever see your children tortured raped,and then killed in front of your eyes, and you had all the power in this universe to stop it..and you do nothing,, cause people have "free will"...then you will have become much like the father in heaven you adore.
I'm a little pissed that you think I want life to be a club med..(rolls eyes up)..no I just want some justice, and it it does seem to me that humans are more willing to lay down their lives for it, than a God who sits back and watches it all happen, over and over again..for whatever lame reason.
Originally posted by gabby2011
reply to post by AQuestion
hunh?? Job would have lost everything anyhow?? yes..I agree we are not perfect and obviously that includes your wife. Why are we not perfect??..did God create us this way? why?..so He could save the day by offering the blood of his son for atonement?..all sounds a lil silly and rather sadistic if you ask me. To compare yourself to JOB who lost ALL his children , is a little much in my eyes as well.
The fact remains that christianity is all based on blood sacrifice for atonement from the old testament to the new,
and that is something just ..well..um..dark and sadistic to me.
I have the right to question things AQuestion....and the more I read the bible the more the bible God seems like a hypocrite to me..
#1 God say ..though shall not kill...yet He himself is responsible for countless deaths in the old testament...
#2 He says he wants people to tythe to the church..what does God need money for? Most religious organizations I know have way too much money and secretly weild power and manipulate politically with those resources. (catholic church and all its orders that take the vow of poverty come to mind)
#3 God says he wants us to give to the poor, ..does he give to the poor? the poor are helping the poor and some of the rich do, but most of them help for ego gratification and tax purposes, and give to charities that help themselves before others.
I could go on with other examples I see, and hopefully if there is a God I will get to ask Him many questions I have for him that the logical brain He supposedly gave me asks.
If he casts me away because I had no "blind" faith, then I really don't want to be with Him anyways.
But look at the bright side..when your exwife asks Him for forgiveness, she'll be singing beside you and your children in heaven..
I wish you the best
edit on 14-5-2011 by gabby2011 because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by AQuestion
Originally posted by Cannon
the writer of this thread came from the Heart and acted,
only the Ego's re-acted, so no big deal.
I always thought that when Jesus was on the cross
and said forgive them for they know not what they do,
that He was referring to them not knowing Who He was.....
But another reason that has just come to me recently
is He was saying forgive them because it was just their Ego's
that they were re-acting from.. It wasn't them in their true sense
or essence, so He was saying forgive them because they truly
did not know what they were doing.... Albeit they were insane.......
Dear Cannon,
Yes, I agree with you, they did not understand, still growing and still learning.
If there is a loving God,I'm sure he would understand why I struggle with the concepts in the bible, and with the way I see things now
Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by gabby2011
If there is a loving God,I'm sure he would understand why I struggle with the concepts in the bible, and with the way I see things now
what don't you understand, perhaps i can help
That would be the sacrifice of animals in the old testament for the atonement of sin...and the sacrifice of a human, (or Gods son) for atonement.
I just don't get it..why can't repentance and a sincere will do be different be enough. What bothers me worse is that for decades I truly believed we were eating the flesh and blood of Jesus in the eucharist , at catholic masses.
This is in their dogma ,and when I think about it, it seems ridiculous..to eat the heart of your God so you can be cleansed, and purified???
33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.
34 Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.
35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
Ok..You might say..well thats just the catholics..but.. ALL christians believe that the blood of Jesus saves us from sin. It seems so medieval , and..I don't know how to put it...except that it feels creepy.
51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
52 The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat?
53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.
60 Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?
Honestly when I read the old testament, I get scared of God, and its like He wants it that way.
It seems its all about His ego, to the point of making Abraham (think it was him) bring his eldest son to a mountain top to sacrifice to God, untill
of course God stopped him...????what the ??? what kinda head games is that???
Thankyou for your offer of help..and I mean that sincerely..this is just some of which I struggle with.
Don't feel bad if you don't have the answers to help me..the fact that you offered shows me a spirit that is good, and to me that is what truly matters in the end.
Originally posted by gabby2011
Another thing I have a real problem with is when people say "remember the bible was written by man, so you can't take it literally", then they go and recite scripture to point something out as an explanation.
It's like a game of pick and choose what is right, and what is not. Its very very confusing, and I'm sure not just to me.
But once again I sincerely thankyou for taking the time to at least try and explain, and not to scoff at me.
Like I said before, that in itself shows the true character that I admire.
edit on 14-5-2011 by gabby2011 because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by gabby2011
sorry I had to bring up the spelling, cause my ego is very bothered by it. I didn't mean to imply you were judging me by it AQuestion, because you don't come across as that type at all.
I thankyou for taking the time to try and explain your concepts and perceptions to me, and while most of it makes sense to me, some of it leaves me confused.
What I do believe is that you are a good person , and admire that in you , and am grateful people like you walk this planet.
As I have asked others who strongly believe in Jesus, I ask you to pray to Him for me.
That He may reveal his truths and wisdom, so that I may understand and see clearly the path He wishes for me.
I admire all people who are willing to do good, regardless of what faith they have.
Originally posted by Akragon
Originally posted by gabby2011
Another thing I have a real problem with is when people say "remember the bible was written by man, so you can't take it literally", then they go and recite scripture to point something out as an explanation.
It's like a game of pick and choose what is right, and what is not. Its very very confusing, and I'm sure not just to me.
But once again I sincerely thankyou for taking the time to at least try and explain, and not to scoff at me.
Like I said before, that in itself shows the true character that I admire.
edit on 14-5-2011 by gabby2011 because: (no reason given)
Consider this...
Though the bible was written by man, within the pages there is one whos written about that was "sent" from God. IF you believe the words he speaks to be true, the rest of the bible actually doesn't matter in the least.
Originally posted by AQuestion
Originally posted by Akragon
Originally posted by gabby2011
Another thing I have a real problem with is when people say "remember the bible was written by man, so you can't take it literally", then they go and recite scripture to point something out as an explanation.
It's like a game of pick and choose what is right, and what is not. Its very very confusing, and I'm sure not just to me.
But once again I sincerely thankyou for taking the time to at least try and explain, and not to scoff at me.
Like I said before, that in itself shows the true character that I admire.
edit on 14-5-2011 by gabby2011 because: (no reason given)
Consider this...
Though the bible was written by man, within the pages there is one whos written about that was "sent" from God. IF you believe the words he speaks to be true, the rest of the bible actually doesn't matter in the least.
Dear Akragon,
I will agree to a point. The truth of the message is in Jesus' words to love God with all your heart and your neighbor as yourself. Still, I think the old testament is a good way to see how we progressed overtime. We started as complete jerks and started to learn. I like the story of Ruth. I like the lessons of Ecclesiastes. Whethere one is a believer or not, there is some good advice in there.