Are male comedians required to be sexist against men in order to make it big?

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posted on Aug, 2 2004 @ 02:06 AM
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Ok, are comedians required to constantly make jokes about the women being more complicated/always smarter, stronger, and more in control in order to make it big? Seriously, I would say that 90% of the comedians/sit-coms do this!!! I was just sitting here watching comedy central, and this stupid moron comes on. "I would like to say men are complicated...but we aren't. They're just smarter! Men, if you're in a relationship...you're being trained!!! I'm a stupid sissy with testicals so small that you couldn't see them with the worlds most powerful microscope." Well...maybe not that last part but you get the point. It's so damned annoying! All the time in the media...it's always the woman winning...being stronger, smarter, teaching the man the lesson. I'm all for equal rights, but that's as far as it goes!! EQUALITY! This doesn't mean giving women more rights!! Equality should mean that women get all the rights that men get...and the bad things as well! I think it was Elizabeth B. Anthony that did this...could be wrong. She commited some crime and was brought to court. The judge decided to not send her to jail like she should have gone...she insisted that she DID go to jail because that's what would have happened to a man. That is what I truely admire. Equality.

Of course, men have natural advantages over women as women do over men and alot of jobs tend to ignore that in order to be "equal" and hire the same amount of sex's. That's a different story.




posted on Aug, 2 2004 @ 03:12 AM
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The reason they do that is we know they are joking and men can take them as a joke... if jokes like that were made against women, the feminists would jump in and kick up a stink. I can see exactly where your coming from. I choose to see it as a compliment that the comedian knows that we can take them as a joke and arent likely to complain, where as if they said that againts women feminist groups would go crazy (no offense to women just feminists who dont undersand equality or how to take a joke).

So relax and enjoy the jokes and revel that they are indeed a compliment to the male species



posted on Aug, 2 2004 @ 07:03 AM
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Heard from Andrew "Dice" Clay lately?

Do you want to?

I rest my case.



posted on Aug, 3 2004 @ 03:04 PM
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I think they're just speaking from their experience as married people. Jeff Foxworthy does this a lot to very good effect. He has a joke about his wife saying "I'm cold" and -he- gets up to turn off the ceiling fan, even though he wasn't uncomfortable at all, thereby showing that she's "got him trained". It's just jokes.

And for years the joke was at the expense of women, not just on the comedy stage, but in all of life. Consider that for many many years, and even now in many places, women have been considered beneath men, not as smart or as capable. Not being paid equally, and still not. When you consider that women had to live the joke for most of our existence, taking a few on the chin now shouldn't be such a hardship for the men. At least in the context of comedy it's all in good fun.


And it's Susan B. Anthony you're thinking of.

www.history.rochester.edu...

(For the record, I'm not a "feminist". Also for the record, feminists are not bad people. Not any worse than others with an agenda.)



posted on Aug, 3 2004 @ 04:23 PM
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Thanks, Susan B. Anthony. Anyway, I disagree with you that women are considered a joke in most places. I think it's the men that are being considered the joke. Women get away with so much because of our horrible past. I think the past is the past, what's now is what matters. Rarely do you ever see women being publicly insulted. It's ok for women to sexually harrass men...but not vice versa (I do understand though, that there is good reason for this). Men always wind up getting the short stick when it comes to divorce. Women can kick men out, rarely, if not never, do you see women getting kicked out of their own house. When a man and a woman unite in mariage, she owns have of this man's possessions. When women want to start their own business, they get $500,000 from the federal budget to help women start up their own business. We have all kinds of health and business programs specifically to help women. This site shows alot of that.Click here Note: I DO NOT AGREE WITH THIS MAN'S STANCE ON ALOT OF THE THINGS HE ADDRESSES. I simply think he brings up a few good points on the inequality of today's society against men...all because of our past.

I'm all for equality, really. I think that men and women should be given EQUAL chances to succeed.



posted on Aug, 4 2004 @ 01:09 AM
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Hmm, this strikes the heart of another issue entirely.

The idea that men and women should have equal opportunity in society, but men and women should maintain their gender specific roles at home. This confussion has created the divorce rate that we enjoy now.



posted on Aug, 4 2004 @ 01:46 AM
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it's called comedy. Just enjoy it. It has nothing to do with gender roles or politics. They are jokes. They are funny.



posted on Aug, 4 2004 @ 11:28 AM
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Yeah.. We did kinda go off topic. But I don't think that they necessarily have to maintain their specific roles. I think they should let whatever happens happens. The problems is that when you do that, without giving benifits and such, there wind up alot more male firefighters and other jobs men are better at (Generally, given the strength difference) and people complain of sexism in the workplace. I don't believe that equal opportunity means giving them benefits so that they can do just as good. I think that it means giving them an equal shot, and if naturally there aren't as many women in a certain job, that's what happens. I did say a CERTAIN job. It works the other way around as well. I think that equal opportunity also means not being prejudiced against them just because they are women, but now we are doing the opposite.

Like I said, I don't agree with that link I provided...I just think he lists a few things that are true about how men get screwed over in alot of ways. If you ask me, he's a nut haha. He seems to think that like...men are the better sex and we shouldn't give women jobs and stuff. I even know someone quite well that didn't get a job because, and they told him this, they need a woman. There were too many men working there (Comic store, go figure) and they needed to hire a woman to make it, "Equal". Tell me, how is that equal? If a whole lot more men are applying for a certain job, said job is generally going to have more men than women working there.

Anyway, I do understand it's just comedy...just letting off a little steam at those idiots..heh heh. Ever watch, "Everybody Loves Raymond"? Same thing.

[Edited on 4-8-2004 by Herman]



posted on Aug, 4 2004 @ 12:23 PM
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I don't know how much experience you have in the world or workplace, but as an almost 40 year old woman with an almost 65 year old mother, I can tell you that equality is still quite a ways off. There is still plenty of racism and sexism in the modern world. Women get breaks because men had a headstart on everything, same reason minorities get breaks over whites. If it were a 200 mile race and you already had 100 miles under your belt before I was even allowed to officially start running, it would be fair to give me a break and either make you slow down or give me a ride up to where you are. "The past is the past" doesn't cut it in certain situations because the present is still affected by the past. It's not all fixed yet so it is still a problem. As far as being publicly insulted, women and children are hunted like prey even now in this day and age. Women are continually beaten, raped and murdered at the hands of men, usually their husband or boyfriend. I find that insulting. I'm not trying to argue, I'm just putting the opinion out there that it's perhaps more involved than the view you presently have.

As for the jokes, I agree with the beagle. They're funny. If fat people, drunks and midgets can laugh, men can too.



posted on Aug, 4 2004 @ 01:45 PM
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Women constantly being raped and attacked, "hunted like prey" as you say has nothing to do with our business world. It's out of the government, and media's control to fix what these idiots choose to do. They can put them in prison, but it has nothing to do with sexism against women if a few morons decide to rape and kill women and children.

Your analogy of the race doesn't quite work because men were not given a head start. Let me fix your analogy for you. There is a red team and a blue team. In this race, the red team cheats and starts early. They are winning the race when somebody notices and puts a stop to the race. Now a whole new race starts with different competitors but the same colors(a few are the same). They give the blue team a head start and let them win just because of how the red team cheated in a completely different race. It's the same thing with giving African Americans money because we enslaved their people earlier. This is a different generation, we did not do anything to THIS generation, so why give them money for things that we did to people that didn't even effect them? I'm 17, and work at a movie theatre. There are probably 3 times as many fe-male leads than male ones. I know a friend who's a man and works EXTREMELY hard. He applied to be lead at the same time as a pretty girl that I know...who doesn't work all that hard. She got the job, not him. I know this doesn't have much to do with what we're talking about, but I'm saying this is the experience I've had. It's not necessarily what I base my reasoning on though.



posted on Aug, 4 2004 @ 03:57 PM
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Men have always had the head start. Check history. My mention of crimes against women and children was to show that women are still seen as a lesser species in the big picture. It has everything to do with the workplace because everything is tied together in a culture. Many men still see staying home to watch their own children as "babysitting" while they see their wives/girlfriends staying home with their children as a given. Your version of these teams doesn't add up because this has always been a male-dominated society, like most. Women had no say in how the country was founded, set up or what rules went into play. We haven't even been voting for 100 years yet. And pretty girls get lots of things that qualified men AND women get passed up for, it's a fact of life. Sometimes affirmative action is abused, there's no doubt. But there's also the problem of The Old Boy Network still being firmly in place and no woman can break it.



posted on Aug, 4 2004 @ 07:53 PM
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It's not a head start though. For a woman that's just starting out, she lives by the same rules as a man. There are no seperate rules for men and women. Yeah, men usually get a worse sentence for the same crime that a woman commits, but that just furthers my point. Because women are raped more often than men, It doesn't mean that they are a lesser species. If it was legal, then it would mean that they are a lesser species. Men are punished when they do that, and they're shunned for it (Which is a good thing). Maybe women are seen as a lesser species by some sick individuals, but that has nothing to do with society as a whole.



Many men still see staying home to watch their own children as "babysitting" while they see their wives/girlfriends staying home with their children as a given.


This all depends on the circumstances. Generally, the circumstance is who stays home with them the most. Usually, it is the female. That is not sexism. That is natural. Women are better at that, and the men should respect them for what they do. And yes, if in a relationship, the man hardly ever watches the kids, then one day he has to...that is like babysitting because he hardly ever does it. I work at a movie theatre. To me, that's just normal work because I do it all the time. If you suddenly had to take a day away from your schedule, and do my job for just one day you'd probably say that it wasn't really a job, just something that you had to do on the side. It's the same thing. It works vice versa as well. I know of a couple where the man stays home, and the woman does the work. Of course, everyone makes fun of him and says he's worthless and doesn't respect him for it. If he was a woman, would they be saying these things? No, they would be saying that the poor wife does all the work while the mmaann just waltzed off to his little job and comes home and parks his a$$ on the couch.

This USED to be a male dominated society, now we've set up rules so that it is much EASIER for a female to dominate if they have the motivation. I even heard that the qualification to become a firefighter is less for women. Is that fair? And yes, women were involved in founding this country, they're just mentioned less often (Which is sexism against women, didn't say that there isn't any.) It doesn't matter if you USED to not be able to vote. The point is: you can now.



posted on Aug, 5 2004 @ 10:09 AM
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"Generally, the circumstance is who stays home with them the most. Usually, it is the female. That is not sexism. That is natural. Women are better at that"

That statement is sexist.

" I work at a movie theatre. To me, that's just normal work because I do it all the time. If you suddenly had to take a day away from your schedule, and do my job for just one day you'd probably say that it wasn't really a job, just something that you had to do on the side. It's the same thing."


It's not the same thing. The movie theater is not something that belongs equally to you and to me. A child would be.

"I know of a couple where the man stays home, and the woman does the work. Of course, everyone makes fun of him and says he's worthless and doesn't respect him for it. If he was a woman, would they be saying these things? No, they would be saying that the poor wife does all the work while the mmaann just waltzed off to his little job and comes home and parks his a$$ on the couch."

1) Everyone makes fun of him for "being the woman". This in itself should tell you how women are STILL viewed today. That staying home with the children and keeping house is still considered normal and something to be expected of a woman. It's normal for her to "be in her place". Women are still not starting out as equals.



2) Everyone wouldn't say "the poor wife does all the work". They'd say that the wife gets to stay home while the man has to go out to work and support them. I know this because I've known people in this position. Because the woman doesn't have to to outside the home to work, she's viewed as "getting" to stay home all day. Her work is seen as "housework". I even know a man who said "I've got 6 brothers and sisters and my mother never worked a day in her life. My dad had to go out every day and earn the money". This is not an isolated incident, this is a fairly general concensus.


As to the subject of this thread, I still don't see the harm in the "female superior" flavor in comedy today. I even remember you had a thread up awhile ago about a girl who asked you out, but you didn't want to go, and were trying to figure out an excuse to tell her or something. Lots of people said to either; go out and get laid or tell a lie. I told you to be honest with her. You went anyway. Maybe there's something to this thing of females being in charge after all?



posted on Aug, 5 2004 @ 10:43 AM
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"Generally, the circumstance is who stays home with them the most. Usually, it is the female. That is not sexism. That is natural. Women are better at that"
That statement is sexist.


How is that sexist? I'll re-phrase that..maybe you took it wrong? I was saying more often than not, the female is the one who stays home. And yes, that is natural. Do you deny that? And yes, women are better nurturers. Men are naturally stronger than women, is that sexist? Usually, in a relationship if someone needs to do something like move a refrigerator, they make the man do it because men are naturally stronger. Is that sexist? It's not. I'm saying that it's still up to the men and women which roll they want to play, but naturally women are better at something, men at others.




" I work at a movie theatre. To me, that's just normal work because I do it all the time. If you suddenly had to take a day away from your schedule, and do my job for just one day you'd probably say that it wasn't really a job, just something that you had to do on the side. It's the same thing."

It's not the same thing. The movie theater is not something that belongs equally to you and to me. A child would be.


You got me there
. But on the other hand, I also don't agree that all husbands see it as babysitting. If my dad stays home to watch the younger kids, he just says, "I have to watch the kids". Same goes for my mom (They both have jobs).




"I know of a couple where the man stays home, and the woman does the work. Of course, everyone makes fun of him and says he's worthless and doesn't respect him for it. If he was a woman, would they be saying these things? No, they would be saying that the poor wife does all the work while the mmaann just waltzed off to his little job and comes home and parks his a$$ on the couch."

1) Everyone makes fun of him for "being the woman". This in itself should tell you how women are STILL viewed today. That staying home with the children and keeping house is still considered normal and something to be expected of a woman. It's normal for her to "be in her place". Women are still not starting out as equals.


Where did I say they make fun of him for, "Being the woman"? Now you're just putting words in my mouth.
They make fun of him because why should his wife have to make all the money while he does nothing. That's exactly what they say. "He's so worthless. SHE goes out and makes all the money and he doesn't do anything for that family". In reality, he stays home, watches the kids, and cleans the house.



2) Everyone wouldn't say "the poor wife does all the work". They'd say that the wife gets to stay home while the man has to go out to work and support them. I know this because I've known people in this position. Because the woman doesn't have to to outside the home to work, she's viewed as "getting" to stay home all day. Her work is seen as "housework". I even know a man who said "I've got 6 brothers and sisters and my mother never worked a day in her life. My dad had to go out every day and earn the money". This is not an isolated incident, this is a fairly general concensus.


I completely disagree. In most cases, (at least where I live) people support the woman when she stays home and say that the man is so lazy. "All he ever does is go off to work...how hard can that be, sitting around with his friends all day? Not as hard as raising 3 kids on my own, that's for sure. And he doesn't respect me for what I do!" Perhapse you live in a more old fashioned area. But I see alot of that where I live. And, on T.V. that is EVERYWHERE! (Which brings my back to my original point). Watch, Everybody Loves Raymond. for a while, I'm sure you'll see what I mean. (I'm sure something horrible would come up after a few episodes. They're not all bad. Hey, it's actually one of my favorite T.V. shows.) I'm guessing you'd like it.




As to the subject of this thread, I still don't see the harm in the "female superior" flavor in comedy today. I even remember you had a thread up awhile ago about a girl who asked you out, but you didn't want to go, and were trying to figure out an excuse to tell her or something. Lots of people said to either; go out and get laid or tell a lie. I told you to be honest with her. You went anyway. Maybe there's something to this thing of females being in charge after all?



ahha...I knew this would come back to me someday. Yeah, I actually hung out with her but made it clear that I didn't want to go out with her. She's actually pretty nice...we just talk at work. So no, she wasn't in charge of me. She didn't force me to go out with her, but she would have been really sad if I didn't hang out with her. And I didn't wind up doing anything I didn't want to heh heh.



posted on Aug, 5 2004 @ 01:43 PM
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I tried to watch that show, but I just couldn't get into it. And to me it's very unrealistic. *L*

I didn't put words in your mouth... I'm telling you what motivates their ridicule of the man who stays home with the kids. It's no offense, so don't take it that way, but you've said you're 17. You're going to learn more about this once you begin to gain more life experience. Trust me on that. Right now you see things the way -you- see them, but later you'll see and experience more. The same thing happened to me and happens to everyone. You're obviously observant and intelligent, so I don't even have to tell you this, most likely.

I have lived all around the D.C./ Northern Virginia are all my life. It's a transitional place with people from all over constantly flowing through along with native residents. No matter who it is, or who I'm dealing with, there is always the underlying note of sexism in almost all scenarios. Women's traditional roles are considered a given and stepping outside of them is sometimes met with hostility instead of just disapproval or suspicion. I actually was literally laughed out of an office once when applying for a job there. It was an ad for carpet cleaners and I needed work badly. The men didn't laugh me out because I was young, but because a woman was asking to get a man's job. They joked about how I'd break a nail on the equipment and get all nasty and sweaty, messing up my pretty hair, etc, etc. I finally just left because I wanted to firebomb the whole bunch. *L* And this was only about 20 years ago. It hasn't changed too terribly much, believe me.

Raymond is like Jeff Foxworthy and a few others I've seen. Great marriage oriented standup, but it just didn't work into a sitcom very well for me.



posted on Aug, 5 2004 @ 01:58 PM
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not only that but black comediens make their skits racist against white people to make it big.

If a white guy were to say anything along the lines of what the black guy said he would be fired, booed, and called a racist.


Women, also I find a butt of their jokes usually consist of fart jokes, sex, and how men suck.


:shk::shk:



posted on Aug, 5 2004 @ 04:57 PM
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Torque, I've heard them make fun of him..it's not for being the woman, it's for being lazy. I dunno, times are changing and I think they're just going to keep getting worse for men. Like you said, that was twenty years ago that that happened to you. I'm guess that the company is now owned by a woman haha. Besides, I live in Arizona; It's more modern (at least in the city) than North Virginia, so maybe that's why our views are different. From what I've seen though, women get treated much better than men, plus all those benefits. People are afraid now, (Like Truelies said) to make any insults against women or minorities like they do us, for fear of getting fired and called a racist/sexist. All these benefits and so called, "Equal opportunity" makes it easier for women to succeed in society than men. Oh well, life is life.



posted on Aug, 6 2004 @ 12:11 PM
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I don't know how much more modern a place can be than Washington D.C. and Northern Virginia, but ok. *L*

If you honestly think that it's easier for women to be successful in this society than it is for men, especially white men, then all I can say is... live a little and keep your eyes wide open. Get out of the movie theater and into an office with a wider pool of worker bees and higher-ups. Look at our government, at who the elected officials/lawmakers are. Look at who the judges are. Look at who the CEOs are, the captains of industry. Women and minorities are better off now than in the past, but not anywhere near having the true equality we should by now.

Look at the presidential race. Two rich white guys. Again. Same suit, different heads. The very thought of a woman or black president is cause for speculation and wonder. Maybe Obama. Maybe Hillary. Maybe in our lifetime!! OMG!! *L* By now it shouldn't be such a trick.

As for comedy, which this was originally about, True Lies is absolutely right. There seems to be a template that must be followed. Women doing the man-bashing jokes, obligatory period jokes, etc. I saw Chris Rock's "Bring The Pain" video and laughed like crazy. But if a white comedian, especially a southern white, had done the same routine he'd have been splashed all over the papers and news as a racist and would lose a lot of money. If men make jokes about women being stupid or useless, they end up like Andrew Dice Who?. It's why I really like Dennis Miller and Dennis Leary. Bill Hicks was great. They leaned more on personal experience and observation than gender or racial subject matter.



posted on Aug, 6 2004 @ 12:26 PM
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Perhapse you are right about minorities in the high political positions. It's true that it is harder to get up there. But that too goes a little off topic with what I was saying. The government is not limiting these women. I'll have to post when I feel better, I'm sick as a dog right now and can't think straight.



posted on Aug, 6 2004 @ 12:35 PM
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Yuck. Sick in the summer stinks. Don't prop yourself up in front of the computer... go sprawl! Hope you feel better.





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