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Muslim defend your faith!

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posted on May, 12 2011 @ 06:10 PM
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I personally find Islam to be the religion that is most likely to cause problems in itself and for others. The very foundation and roots of it's teachings are illogical or mandate complete disdain and intolerance of other religions and conflicting schools of thought.

Many Muslims and their apologetic friends will try and say that all morally twisted acts within their religion do not even come from the religion itself. They refuse to admit that their book is and correctly interpreted by many to condone many distasteful actions and thoughts. Even spreading the idea that "Islam" actually means "peace". Totally false, it means "submission" or "surrender".

This is not hate against Muslims themselves. This is not hate for your religion( many other religion were just as bad with their texts). This is being worried because of ignorance that the fundamentals in the Qur'an have everything to do with immoral, intolerant, and violent act is appalling. The fact that not too many people are courageous enough to even confront the issue is testament to this assertion.


So here I am, I want to hear you Muslims defend your book, as I am also very informed in Islam myself. I have the Qur'an with commentary, Buhkari Hadith manual (words directly from Muhammad himself, well they all were anyways), and a many other books to back up my claims.

It is something that needs to be discussed and understood in a rational way and more people should be informed as to why fundamentalist Muslims act the way they do as opposed to a fundamentalist Buddhist. Islam should and deserves to be scrutinized for the interests of Muslims and non-Muslims alike.




posted on May, 12 2011 @ 06:21 PM
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About time we see the cross marching and being defended.



posted on May, 12 2011 @ 06:24 PM
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reply to post by IamBoon
 


I don't claim by any means to be an expert on Islam but just out of curiosity can you post verses or quotes from the Quran that as you say worry you..since you say you are studied in the area. Would honestly just like to look into some of the things that worry you so.

Thanks in advance
edit on 12-5-2011 by AmerikanDekline because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 12 2011 @ 06:29 PM
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reply to post by AmerikanDekline
 


There are too many, and I do relate to the context of the passage. The Hadiths are pretty bad also. I am here to make a case and discuss this with the Muslims. I am sure if you follow this thread then you will see many, along with some zany interpretations to boot.

Right now I am just waiting for someone to add to the discussion. If you want some passages there are many sites with that info up and books also at the local library. I am here for discussion, not for listing things already found elsewhere.



posted on May, 12 2011 @ 06:36 PM
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Just War or Jihad: Is Faith the Cause or the Cure of Violence?



posted on May, 12 2011 @ 06:38 PM
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I also have quite a few questions about Islam. Mostly questions about how/why women are treated the way they are. I have often heard that the religion is not to blame, but the culture/region. If this is so, then is sharia law not being followed? I thought Sharia encompassed everything else even the laws of the country you were in. I would love some more insight into this.



posted on May, 12 2011 @ 06:44 PM
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reply to post by Lovebringer
 


The religion is some of the cause. You cannot blame it on every act of violence... only certain kinds. Which are the crimes that are proven to be motivated by the religion. The culture of pre-Islamic Arabia did treat females badly and even condoned the burying of a child should she not be wanted by the parents. Of course, this is probably where some of the ideas in the Qur'an about the mistreatment of women in defining their role in society and being the main cause of lust and perversion Islam did tone down or eliminate a lot of crude practices, but the framework for oppression still remained.
edit on 12-5-2011 by IamBoon because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 12 2011 @ 06:44 PM
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reply to post by IamBoon
 


Fair enough I didn't want to say it but I have seen many of these threads pop up and many of the verses that have been quoted have been taking horribly out of context to further the posters point. There are as well many verses that speak of love and other such matters you realize you can take any religious book and quote things out of context to paint the book in a negative light. I feel people have became way to afraid of the Muslim people based on what they are seeing in the media, because there are radical parts of every religion who say and commit horrible acts and yet Muslims and their religion are the one you see people mainly complaining about. I honestly hope this is a thread based on proof of the claims you make and not just an opinion.

you stated this

"the Qur'an have everything to do with immoral, intolerant, and violent act is appalling."

thats a pretty big claim so sorry if I just wanted clarification on why you feel that way...I thought you wanted a discussion apparently you just want us to agree with you
edit on 12-5-2011 by AmerikanDekline because: (no reason given)


And further more why should anyone have to defend their beliefs and religion who are you or anyone for that matter to judge them....Every religion not to mention race that has ever lived has committed crimes against humanity stop making it look like Islam is the worst everyone always blows off the crusades as if it doesnt matter in the least...come on
edit on 12-5-2011 by AmerikanDekline because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 12 2011 @ 06:47 PM
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this is Winston churchill on islam,

Churchill wrote: "Indeed it is evident that Christianity, however degraded and distorted by cruelty and intolerance, must always exert a modifying influence on men's passions, and protect them from the more violent forms of fanatical fever, as we are protected from smallpox by vaccination. But the Mahommedan religion increases, instead of lessening, the fury of intolerance. It was originally propagated by the sword, and ever since, its votaries have been subject, above the people of all other creeds, to this form of madness."

After 9/11, George W. Bush famously described Islam as a "religion of peace". Churchill entertained no such fancy notions. In his history of the Malakand Field Force, Churchill wrote that "civilisation is confronted with militant Mahommedanism. The forces of progress clash with those of reaction. The religion of blood and war is face to face with that of peace. Luckily the religion of peace is usually the better armed.

link
www.islam-watch.org...



posted on May, 12 2011 @ 06:48 PM
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Originally posted by Wolvo
About time we see the cross marching and being defended.


The OP never said anything about "the cross" or christianity, one way or the other.

And "the cross" is responsible for a great deal of war of death, just as the muslim faith is, you hypocrite.



posted on May, 12 2011 @ 06:52 PM
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reply to post by AmerikanDekline
 


I was a Muslim. I know what the teachings are and I know what I have heard coming out of "moderate" Muslims mouths. There are many who abhor violence and do, as you say, love life and hate violence. The fact that the book is contradictory or false just furthers the fact that the writer was not infallible or perfect. Just because a book that contains both good and evil can also be interpreted as good in some cases, it can also be interpreted otherwise.

Most Muslims , and this is weird, never actually "read" the Qur'an at all. They sing it by memorizing the text without knowing the original Arabic or what it says in their native tongue. I would dare say a large percentage of some Islamic states only know of what is said through what they are taught by Imams and their focus in teh matter.



posted on May, 12 2011 @ 06:53 PM
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reply to post by notsofunnyguy
 

And "the cross" is responsible for a great deal of war of death, just as the muslim faith is, you hypocrite.


Perhaps I was confused, but I took that as satirical commentary on the OP.

I will say, in regards to both religions, that you can blame neither for the behaviour of their adherents. People make their own decisions, and I know there are a lot of non-violent muslims AND christians out there.

People inclined to such will always find a justification for their stupidity and cruelty.



posted on May, 12 2011 @ 06:58 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on May, 12 2011 @ 07:00 PM
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reply to post by IamBoon
 


Thanks for the reply. I can see unlike many other threads you are actually sincere in having a genuine discussion instead of bashing someones beliefs and for that I applaud you


Only other thing I'd bring up is these books were written in times that were far different than ours so perhaps for the time the things that were being stated made perfect sense in that day and age or could even be possible that many things has been misinterpreted not just in Quran or Bible but any thing that was written that long ago it's just hard to say really.

Anyway i'll be keeping an eye on the thread should be an interesting read and hopefully I can further learn something on the matter.

If I came off as rude truly didn't mean to was just curious as to why you felt this way...but as you already stated you use to be muslim so obviously know far more than I do on any of these matters.

Have a good night



posted on May, 12 2011 @ 07:02 PM
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Originally posted by Praetorius
reply to post by notsofunnyguy
 

And "the cross" is responsible for a great deal of war of death, just as the muslim faith is, you hypocrite.


Perhaps I was confused, but I took that as satirical commentary on the OP.

I will say, in regards to both religions, that you can blame neither for the behaviour of their adherents. People make their own decisions, and I know there are a lot of non-violent muslims AND christians out there.

People inclined to such will always find a justification for their stupidity and cruelty.



T here is a HUGE difference in that Christianity's major malfunctions are in the past and most likely will continue to adapt. Christianity broke free of the chains of religious oppression of knowledge and fascism. This let Christianity be checked and balanced by free thought and justice for most. Islam is in the point we should be afraid of right NOW! And it is worse because a big purpose of Islam is to make the entire world Muslim. The Qur'an mandates it as a duty, though much work has been done trying to twist and scheme out of apparent abrogations within it.

Just like the Bible interpretation rules, it is of the utmost importance to not interpret the text as to contradict another. You must find any other explanation so as long as it does not conflict or you are incorrect. For most it just means never teach them about the conflicts. This is also why even a lot of Muslims even believe "islam" means "peace".
edit on 12-5-2011 by IamBoon because: spelling



posted on May, 12 2011 @ 07:04 PM
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Originally posted by Praetorius
reply to post by notsofunnyguy
 

And "the cross" is responsible for a great deal of war of death, just as the muslim faith is, you hypocrite.


Perhaps I was confused, but I took that as satirical commentary on the OP.

I will say, in regards to both religions, that you can blame neither for the behaviour of their adherents. People make their own decisions, and I know there are a lot of non-violent muslims AND christians out there.

People inclined to such will always find a justification for their stupidity and cruelty.



Yeah sometimes I think people try to blame it to much on religion and race because at the core none of that really matters we are all Human Beings and it's unavoidable that people of every walk of life that some will be violent...think it could have a lot more to do with the area in the world in which they live than the fact they are Muslim



posted on May, 12 2011 @ 07:07 PM
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reply to post by IamBoon
 


So Islam is to make the entire world muslim. Thats funny cause I've never had a muslim knock on my door to convert me, it always seems to be a christian. Actually there are christians all over the world offering some food and clothes to people, as long as they accept Jesus first. lol
edit on 12-5-2011 by mayabong because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 12 2011 @ 07:14 PM
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Originally posted by AmerikanDekline

Originally posted by Praetorius
reply to post by notsofunnyguy
 

And "the cross" is responsible for a great deal of war of death, just as the muslim faith is, you hypocrite.


Perhaps I was confused, but I took that as satirical commentary on the OP.

I will say, in regards to both religions, that you can blame neither for the behaviour of their adherents. People make their own decisions, and I know there are a lot of non-violent muslims AND christians out there.

People inclined to such will always find a justification for their stupidity and cruelty.



Yeah sometimes I think people try to blame it to much on religion and race because at the core none of that really matters we are all Human Beings and it's unavoidable that people of every walk of life that some will be violent...think it could have a lot more to do with the area in the world in which they live than the fact they are Muslim



The places they live seems not to matter so much. It seems that everywhere Islam is practiced that these tendencies to act out in a negative form. It may be a smaller percentage of radical fundamentalists or a large one. The common tie is that you can read and understand exactly where these beliefs are validated in the book. It does correlate with the percentage of Muslim population though. The higher the Muslim population that is not in a free-democratic state I guarantee the likelihood of violent practices, oppression, unjust trials, murders, and anti-semitism will rise.



posted on May, 12 2011 @ 07:16 PM
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reply to post by IamBoon
 


And yet I've seen what are usually interpreted as 'christian' nations -draped in the flag and carrying the cross- bombing and harassing other nations as well as starting two world wars.

I'm not going to say islam doesn't have some serious issues, but conversely can't say christianity isn't without its own. And the reason for both is that they are composed of people.

Take away the religions themselves, and you will still see idiocy. Look at the communist nations, historically. Ideology, and people's interpretations and applications of it, is the root cause of these issues. Is the typical christian message peace? Yes. Yet we have self-identified christians behaving in most unbecoming fashions. Is this the faith's fault? No. It's the people.

If there were some realistic way to do it, I'd like to see the total number of people in each religion and the percentage of those people who cause issues. I would be surprised if there wasn't some similarity across the board.


Just like the Bible interpretation rules, it is of the utmost importance to not interpret the text as to contradict another. You must find any other explanation so as long as it does not conflict or you are incorrect. For most it just means never teach them about the conflicts. This is also why even a lot of Muslims even believe "islam" means "peace".


I can't argue with that, although wasn't aware of the last bit re: meaning of Islam.

Not trying to be argumentative here, just calling it as I see it - no offense intended.
edit on 5/12/2011 by Praetorius because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 12 2011 @ 07:18 PM
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Originally posted by mayabong
reply to post by IamBoon
 


So Islam is to make the entire world muslim. Thats funny cause I've never had a muslim knock on my door to convert me, it always seems to be a christian. Actually there are christians all over the world offering some food and clothes to people, as long as they accept Jesus first. lol
edit on 12-5-2011 by mayabong because: (no reason given)


Yes, evangelism is prohibited. They think it will come with time or an act from Allah. You have to know a bit about the belief to understand. Mohammad said that people should be converted by sword and he also said that the goodwill of Muslims would convert them. Muhammad, for the most part, did his converting by the sword.




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