Wikileaks reveals Arctic could be the new cold war.

Submarine explorers planting Russian flags under the North Pole. Military tension between NATO and Russia. US diplomats manoeuvring in the wings. Aircraft carriers lurking and strike fighters changing hands. Sound like something from a James Bond plot? Unfortunately it’s not. New Wikileaks releases today have shown the Arctic oil rush is not just a threat to the environment and our climate, but also to peace.
The documents show how deadly serious the scramble for Arctic resources has become.

www.greenpeace.org...

Russia is manoeuvring to claim ownership over huge swathes of the Arctic, as a senior Moscow source reveals that a Russian explorer’s famous expedition to plant a flag on the seabed was ordered by Vladimir Putin’s United Russia party.

Now that is kind of wrong. Instead of trying to curb the issues of climate change. The powers that be are instead looking at the melting ice caps as a finacial bonus. In times when we should be turning away from fossil fuels in an attempt to stabilize our climate we are instead carving up the new oil frontiers. As in many cases were there is oil this may well lead to military contention.

Russian Navy head Admiral Vladimir Vysotsky said, ""While in the Arctic there is peace and stability, however, one cannot exclude that in the future there will be a redistribution of power, up to armed intervention.""

www.wikileaks.ch...

This should be setting off alarm bells, our planet is melting and none of the powers seem to care a damn. Now i now there are people on ats that think that anthropegenic global warming does not exist. this is not a thread about this. There is something in environmental science known as the precautionary prinicple in which if you are not sure you dont it. We should reduce are use of green houses gasses just incase they are causing global warming and if evidence comes to light to change that opinion, we should act in accordance.

The Artic is a unique habitat and we should be trying to preserve it not destroy it further. We are acting wrong and if we keep this up, mother nature will kick out butt...



kx

I remember reading the news of the Flags being planted in the Arctic.
I completely agree that this is fine. We still have lines on our globes therefore we will continue to act as such. I doubt there will be a cold war, if anything there will be a military war. But a military war with two great powers won't happen without HUGE conflict. This will bring up tensions but really it will be a test of measuring one's countries "Structure"

reply to post by purplemer


A war in the arctic? That would be known as 'A Bloody Cold War' surely.

I also remember the planting of the flag. There are natural resources to be had in the region, so there will be a scramble for these and as Russia has claimed it for herself, then sure a war could well break out if this was ever challenged.

I would imagine any war in the arctic would be pretty damn cold!

Interesting thread. I was just noticing yesterday how much of Antarctica has been Googlemapped in some form or another but absolutely nothing of the Arctic region that I could find and that really made me very suspicious.

They don't care because they know global warming is another way to cause fear amongst the people and a way to make money. Them and there scientists know its a natural occurring cycle of the earth. World powers are on such a big power and money trip i'm beginning to think its to dam late they know of many forms of free energy and what do they do buy it and bury it plain and simple. Do they listen to the people not by a long shot they hide everything they can from the people they don't care about us anyway they want less of a population so its easier to control. In my opinion they don't care how many perish to get what they want they use the numbers to per sway the population to encourage war and violence and when that doesn't work they create a false flag situation to gain the people that way and all for the love of money its embarrassing and pathetic that this has gone on this long. Also i find it kinda funny they put a flag on the bottom of the ocean to mark the territory they want to claim hilarious if you ask me there playing games like a bunch of dam kids i tell you and its with the world as if there are many more like mother earth.

How many times must it be said, There never was and there is not, a global warming crisis.

Originally posted by Tephra
How many times must it be said, There never was and there is not, a global warming crisis.

The climate is changing. That is not in dispute. How it is changing and why are...

ive often wondered if global warming was a little kid with a magnifying glass (satellite) just trying to get to the oil under the ice...

who cares if a few billion poor people die in the process, right grovers, right?

reply to post by purplemer

Oh, it's melting all right and very rapidly at that. Take a look at this figure showing the shrinkage from 1979 to 2011.
nsidc.org...
The following website is excellent for people who want to see hard data.
nsidc.org... Troubling as some of this is I can't wait to see what sort of artifacts or ancient civilizations will be uncovered as the melt continues...that is if I don't drown or meet with some other resulting catastrophe from this undeniable melting trend. And that is if all the flag planting and secrecy around the region doesn't prevent us from a look at global history. Our history.

I'm one to think that Global Warming has causes external to that of human activities. Still, lowering the pollution we produce would be a good thing to do because, even if it doesn't impact at all on the Earth itself, and what is considered its health, it impacts on us and many other creatures in a very negative way.

A war in the Arctic? There is really no ground anymore that can't be tainted by THAT human activity, sadly.

Originally posted by NowanKenubi
I'm one to think that Global Warming has causes external to that of human activities. Still, lowering the pollution we produce would be a good thing to do because, even if it doesn't impact at all on the Earth itself, and what is considered its health, it impacts on us and many other creatures in a very negative way.

A war in the Arctic? There is really no ground anymore that can't be tainted by THAT human activity, sadly.

I am one to think we do not know, there seems to be a lot of contradictory evidence about. We cannot even predict what the weather will be doing next week. Let alone in 50 years with variable factors.
However we are taking a risk, so until we understand better i shall support the reduction of fossil fuels...


kx

reply to post by purplemer
What amazes me is the very, very high stakes people are willing to put up in this risk. Even if there was only a 30% chance that global warming is largely man made are those odds acceptable to people here who have children and grandchildren??? The stakes and the odds are not acceptable to me. I'll keep fighting to clean up the environment and establish emission controls and standards. I'll keep fighting to fund the development of alternative and non fossil fuel energy.

reply to post by ChrisCrikey


I don't think there's even one global warming skeptic who wants to ruin the earth. We all think we should behave responsibly towards the environment.

However....what we object to is fraudulent science in the name of taxation, so a few wealthy people and corporations can make money. There is a very obvious scam within the "climate change" movement. THAT is what we are reacting angrily to.

Originally posted by purplemer

Originally posted by Tephra
How many times must it be said, There never was and there is not, a global warming crisis.

The climate is changing. That is not in dispute. How it is changing and why are...

This has to be some type of joke right?

The Earth is a planet with seasons and weather cycles based off of the sun, moon, and oceans. It's a volcanic wet rocky planet, the climate is always shifting. Saying the climate is changing is equivalent to saying gravity exists. Of course the climate is shifting, IT'S EARTH. The climate will get warmer, the climate will get cooler, it's been doing this for millions of years, and it will keep doing it.

Just do me a favor and be thankful you get to live during the interglacial period.

I read about this happening (possibly) when that Russian dude planted the flag. I agree, the whole climate change thing is just a natural process. I also read somewhere recently that in 50 years or so, we could be in a mini ice age which would fly in the face of everything climate change people have touted recently. (some one actually predicted, that by 2015 (if we're still here lol) you would be able to walk from mainland UK to Ireland in the winter)

Yes our CO2,ozone output and logging has influenced the earths cycles somewhat. But as someone once said, everything that has an action, has a reaction. I.E, while we might have helped the "global warming" cycle somewhat, it will all come back to bite us in the ar** shortly. I would like to see the Evil Oil companies try and drill oil once the northern hemisphere starts having 6 month winters!

reply to post by Tephra

This has to be some type of joke right? The Earth is a planet with seasons and weather cycles based off of the sun, moon, and oceans. It's a volcanic wet rocky planet, the climate is always shifting. Saying the climate is changing is equivalent to saying gravity exists. Of course the climate is shifting, IT'S EARTH. The climate will get warmer, the climate will get cooler, it's been doing this for millions of years, and it will keep doing it. Just do me a favor and be thankful you get to live during the interglacial period.

Yes we are an interglacial period. We are in the interlude of a quantary ice age, but on average we should not be entering a ice age for another few thousand years adleast. The mechanisms that cause ice ages and the relations with the sun are still not particularly understood.

Solar activity Main article: Solar variation Solar activity events recorded in radiocarbon. During the period 1645–1715, in the middle of the Little Ice Age, there was a period of low solar activity known as the Maunder Minimum. There is a still very poor understanding of the correlation between low sunspot activity and cooling temperatures.[58][59] The Spörer Minimum has also been identified with a significant cooling period between 1460 and 1550.[60] Other indicators of low solar activity during this period are levels of the isotopes carbon-14 and beryllium-10.[61]

en.wikipedia.org...

Yes climate is also in flux, you dont have to look far back to see examples of this. However this does not prove we are not having an affect on our climate. It would be wise in such a situation to verge on caution, since the stakes are so high and we dont really know.
The petrochemical industries are happy to feed discourse into the scientific and public community, it certainly is not in there intrests to see a restrictions put on their cash cow.

Originally posted by ChrisCrikey
reply to post by purplemer

 

Oh, it's melting all right and very rapidly at that. Take a look at this figure showing the shrinkage from 1979 to 2011.
nsidc.org...
The following website is excellent for people who want to see hard data.
nsidc.org... Troubling as some of this is I can't wait to see what sort of artifacts or ancient civilizations will be uncovered as the melt continues...that is if I don't drown or meet with some other resulting catastrophe from this undeniable melting trend. And that is if all the flag planting and secrecy around the region doesn't prevent us from a look at global history. Our history.

BBC Newsnight: Wikileaks files reveal Arctic 'carve up'

www.youtube.com...

soz i cant seem to embed the video...


kx

Originally posted by ChrisCrikey
reply to post by purplemer

 

Oh, it's melting all right and very rapidly at that. Take a look at this figure showing the shrinkage from 1979 to 2011.
nsidc.org...
The following website is excellent for people who want to see hard data.
nsidc.org... Troubling as some of this is I can't wait to see what sort of artifacts or ancient civilizations will be uncovered as the melt continues...that is if I don't drown or meet with some other resulting catastrophe from this undeniable melting trend. And that is if all the flag planting and secrecy around the region doesn't prevent us from a look at global history. Our history.

BBC Newsnight: Wikileaks files reveal Arctic 'carve up'

www.youtube.com...

soz i cant seem to embed the video...


kx

A possible war in the arctic could be the catalyst needed to further the formation of the NAU.

Arctic sovereignty has been a touchy subject here in Canada for decades, forming a military alliance with the US over the state of protection of our north is likely in the coming years.