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Republicans Plan Push for Elimination of I.R.S

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posted on Aug, 1 2004 @ 10:13 PM
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A domestic centerpiece of the Bush/GOP agenda for a second Bush term is getting rid of the Internal Revenue Service, the DRUDGE REPORT has learned.

The Speaker of the House will push for replacing the nation's current tax system with a national sales tax or a value added tax, Hill sources tell DRUDGE.

"People ask me if Im really calling for the elimination of the IRS, and I say I think thats a great thing to do for future generations of Americans," Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert explains in his new book, to be released on Wednesday.



www.drudgereport.com...


If there is any truth to this, then forgive me when I say "Holy $#@*" !!


I was hoping it would be the U.N. to get the boot (soon followed by our State Department), but I guess the I.R.S. is as good of a place to start as any.




posted on Aug, 1 2004 @ 10:23 PM
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Haven't read this plan yet but I remember a few years back the Republican Party wanted to get rid of the IRS... that is, they wanted to change the name to something that sounded "good" for people, while keeping the organization itself intact. Since this is coming from drudge, it should probably be taken with a jar of salt.



posted on Aug, 1 2004 @ 10:43 PM
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Originally posted by MindWarrior
Since this is coming from drudge, it should probably be taken with a jar of salt.


Good point MW. Though I read Drudge for kicks and giggles I tend to ignore everything between "Drudge has learned" and "developing."

But in this case, it does push a book
(in true Drudge style of embedded advertising).



posted on Aug, 1 2004 @ 10:52 PM
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If there's any truth to this, you can be sure it will be followed by the new tax collectors:

"GIVE US EVERYTHING."




posted on Aug, 2 2004 @ 11:21 AM
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From the other thread about this - Ironman said this to my postitive response on getting rid of the IRS -

You are out of your gord. The IRS, while it does take our money, only does so because the Government tells it to. If your unhappy with taxes and the good (and bad) that they do, go overthrow the government and make it your world, spend money how you want to. Better yet, just print off an extra $X Trillion dollars off the presses and pass it around, that will eliminate the gov't debt right?? NO.
**************************************
Ironman - I didn't say taxes were bad. Re read what I said. I said that getting rid of the IRS, the paperwork, the tax books, etc. were a VERY good thing. It's a financial black hole. There has to be a better way to have taxes paid that aren't so confusing and that doesn't suck up tons of money. The IRS sucks money. The professional tax preparations people need to make because they don't understand how to pay taxes sucks money. The books on how to pay suck money (and trees). The massive amounts of tax forms suck money (and trees).

I never said people shouldn't pay taxes or that taxes on the whole were bad. Get what people say right next time before you go running off at the mouth.

IF this story is correct, the government is looking for a new and more efficient way of paying taxes. This is a very good idea.



posted on Aug, 2 2004 @ 11:37 AM
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He is not talking about getting rid of taxes, just the current tax system. Instead of a volumes and volumes of tax laws, he just wants a simpler system. Everyone pays like 15% of their income and 15% on goods they purchase. Something like that, no exceptions, No Forms 1040-A, 1456B, 1403-D and C, 95781-Addendum...

If you are young, then you probably do not understand this yet, but as soon as you start making decent income and have a house, or kids or anything, your taxes become so complicated that it is almost manditory to hire someone else to figure them out. Heck, even in a test last year the IRS's own people could not answer correctly half the questions posed to them about tax codes. The whole system has become too complicated. This is why millionares can get away with paying 0 taxes and people who pay 0 taxes can get a refund. This will make the system fair again.

I propose a simple test. Have all the members of congress sit in a room with a pencil, paper and a calculator for an afternoon to prepare their own taxes. Give them an afternoon. Check them all afterwords, if 95% of them are in error, the tax laws need to be reduced and simplified. Repeat. When it is all finished, you will have the flat tax.



posted on Aug, 2 2004 @ 11:54 AM
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Ironman also said this in the now-closed other thread:

"Taxes are good, especially when you understand tax law and know how to evade them legally."

Understand Tax Law? Don't make me laugh. The whole system is designed to make it as difficult as possible to understand. This is to support an industry that only exists because people have to hire someone to help them find the legal loopholes that in a truely fair system wouldn't be available or nessisary.

Legal Tax Evasion..... That entire concept is just wrong. That type of thinking is at the very core of the problem. If the system were fair and actually worked, no one would need to legally evade their taxes now would they?

Want to fix it? Try a 20% National Sales Tax. Pay on what you consume rather than what you produce. People who feel the need to own things like solid gold umbrella stands and diamond collars for their fru-fru dogs pay more. People who excercise a little fiscal restraint and do with less, pay less. It's really that simple.

I have yet to see one good arguement against a National Sales Tax. Ya know if Bush would actually do something significant to address this problem, he could probably get my vote back.



posted on Aug, 2 2004 @ 12:05 PM
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A one time flat tax would be a good thing say a flat 25% tax on anything and everthing you buy . A one time tax rember . Lets say you buy a home and land valude at 150,000$ 25% would be 37,500 or around there .
Sounds like alot I relize but it a one time tax wich means no more year to year property tax .Think of it now the same proprety would cost you about 2500$ a year in property taxes . so ovesly in 20 years you have payed in over 50,000$ so by having a flat tax it cost less.
This holds true no matter what taxes your talking about. our overall tax rate is now at 48% and rising .
Of corse now you say well not enough money comming in to suport the country anymore. Well thats not true eather.
Because with this kind of tax base you dont need the HUGH watch dogs groups that are making sure taxes are payed now. saving lots and lots of money .
The real problem with a change like this is the huge amount of people that will be out of jobs as the gov shuts down there offices. were talking millions of people . But if the country could stand the strain of massive unimployment for a few years then things would get better FAST as our deta is payed up and the enconmey starts growing very fast because now the companys will start building here again .
Rember befor all this started back in the 50des? wouldent be long befor the countrys enconimy was that good again.



posted on Aug, 2 2004 @ 12:16 PM
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Well if the Rebulicans do this its going to turn into the "Poor Peoples Money Collection Militia". I don't like the sound of the GOP controling taxes completly. Now the rich won't pay taxes at all.



posted on Aug, 2 2004 @ 12:43 PM
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Getting rid of the personal income tax will not eliminate the IRS. The IRS collects all federal taxes except those on alcohol, tobacco, and firearms. That is the job of BATF.

If you replace the personal income tax with a value-added tax or a national sales tax, who do you think will collect the tax? The IRS, unless Congress creates a new agency specifically to collect the new tax. In any event, the IRS will stll exist. There are other federal taxes besides the personal income tax.

If the personal income tax is replaced, there will be collection and administrative costs for both government and business. A value-added tax, in particular, will be a nightmare of regulation and enforcement.

This is just another Republican scheme to further shift the tax burden from the rich to the poor. That is exactly the effect of reducing or eliminating taxes on dividends and capital gains. And if a national sales tax generates the same revenue as the personal income tax, the poor will wind up paying more taxes than they do now. Touting this scheme as eliminating the IRS is just a smokescreen to obscure the real Republican agenda.


[edit on 8/2/2004 by donguillermo]



posted on Aug, 2 2004 @ 12:59 PM
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Originally posted by donguillermo
If you replace the personal income tax with a value-added tax or a national sales tax, who do you think will collect the tax?

If the personal income tax is replaced, there will be collection and administrative costs for both government and business. A value-added tax, in particular, will be a nightmare of regulation and enforcement.


Hmmmm. How are sales taxes collected now? Seems to me that the infrastructure to collect taxes in such a way is already in place and is being used? When was the last time you purchaced something and didn't pay sales taxes on it?

Businesses already do this chore on a number of levels. Being a former small business owner, I would MUCH rather have to deal with another layer of sales tax than to have to worry about subtracting and being responsible for my employee's tax withholding. Any business with over 20 or 30 employees almost has to hire an additional person just to handle this. You talk about administrative waste. How wasteful is it to take money from people and then have to calculate, check and return a portion of it to them? That is true waste.

True partisan that you are Donguillermo, I expect that if the Democrats had floated this balloon, you would be telling us how good an idea it is.



posted on Aug, 2 2004 @ 01:03 PM
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I for one am all for this. Unfortunately, this idea has been around one shape or form for many many years. I really don't think it will ever come about.
One could always hope though!



posted on Aug, 2 2004 @ 01:33 PM
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I read this on drudge report this morning... It would be nice if they got the boot, all of them deserve to be jobless (aholes).

They cause so much hype and fear in people, everybody "has to" get their papers filed before the deadline, everybody better or else...

Who needs them? Their methods should be illegal and they should all get the beat down in a federal prison for verbally abusing people, barging into people's homes, ripping people off, lying to people, their worse then collection agencies!

My husband is suing NCO group for all the above reasons under the fair debt collection act, over a 72 dollar bill they thought he had to pay but it was in error, so nco got the bill and did all the things the IRS does, except they didn't barge into the house, so now he'll probably get 7-8 thousand for all the offences they commited...
He was in the NY times in yesterdays business section...

I'm glad to see the IRS go, i'm sure nobody would miss them...

Congressmen better give em the boot too, or else we'll all have to make sure they lose their jobs...
Remember WE ELECT THEM.



posted on Aug, 2 2004 @ 01:54 PM
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Ambient Sound says


Hmmmm. How are sales taxes collected now? Seems to me that the infrastructure to collect taxes in such a way is already in place and is being used? When was the last time you purchaced something and didn't pay sales taxes on it?


This would be a new federal tax, and would be collected by the IRS, unless Congress created a new agency to collect this tax. Business owners would still have to deal with the federal bureaucracy and paperwork. The existing business infrastructure to deal with state and local sales taxes would be of little, if any, help. If the new tax is a value-added tax, the result will be an administrative and paperwork nightmare for business. If you don't know what a value-added tax is, I suggest you do some research.


True partisan that you are Donguillermo, I expect that if the Democrats had floated this balloon, you would be telling us how good an idea it is.


You expect wrong. As I pointed out in my post, the net effect of a national sales tax would be to further shift of the tax burden from the rich to the poor. I am opposed to a national sales tax, no matter who proposes it.

I am not a partisan Democrat, by any means. My political position is that the Presidency of George Bush constitutes a national emergency, and that his removal from office is of paramount importance.

I do not blindly parrot and support Democratic political positions. I am opposed to all forms of gun control. I am an unqualified supporter of free trade. I am in favor of the immediate withdrawal of all U.S. forces from both Iraq and Afghanistan. All three of these positions directly contradict the positions of John Kerry and the Democratic Party.

Please don't dismiss me as someone who blindly agrees with whatever the Democrats say.



posted on Aug, 2 2004 @ 01:59 PM
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We have a national tax here in Canada, the GST(goods and services tax). 7%. It's very unpopular and during elections they roll out the old line, "We're going to abolish the GST." Guess what? It's still here. Once the gov't has money flowing in, they're reluctant to get rid of it.



posted on Aug, 2 2004 @ 02:07 PM
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A one time flat tax would be a good thing say a flat 25% tax on anything and everthing you buy . A one time tax rember . Lets say you buy a home and land valude at 150,000$ 25% would be 37,500 or around there .


That would be horroble for those who buy and sell real estate for a living!

[edit on 2-8-2004 by mpeake]



posted on Aug, 2 2004 @ 02:13 PM
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Originally posted by Ambient Sound
Hmmmm. How are sales taxes collected now? Seems to me that the infrastructure to collect taxes in such a way is already in place and is being used? When was the last time you purchaced something and didn't pay sales taxes on it?


I posted this on the other thread: National Sales Tax

The national sales tax proposal would be set at 23% on all new goods and services. It also states that you would have to apply for a rebate equal to the sales taxes paid on essential goods and services deemed to be necessities.

Just my opinon, but this will really kill the poor and the middle class. Can you imagine keeping every receipt for every transaction you make during the year - just so you can apply for a rebate of sales tax paid?

Also what does the bills sponsors consider necessities? Who will make the final determination once you prepare your rebate form and submit it to the federal govt.? Will there be audits of the rebate applications?

Too many questions - too much room for abuse (bartering comes to mind) - too much of a burden on those who can least afford it.

It also does nothing to limit Congress's ability to waste our taxes to begin with. So for me it doesn't matter whether they tax my income or impose a tax on my purchases.



posted on Aug, 2 2004 @ 03:09 PM
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Yeah imagine the nightmare of paying tax on credit card transactions, when you buy things. Loans are not currently taxed. You will have to pay the interest and the value added tax as well. Get this straight your will have to borrow money to pay a tax, something very few people have to do today.

Besides you can guarantee that the income tax will stay, at a small level of course, then return sooner than you think just as high, and you will have the nightmare of the VAT as well.

Another thing, just imagine when you buy a house and have to pay an extra 23 thousand dollars per hundred thousand, and have to pay off the mortgage for the tax portion as well as the house portion. Your bill for the tax after 15 years will be be much more than 23 per cent. I like the income tax now much better, because you deduct mortgage interest, not pay on it.
Besides if you have to annually mess with deductions on a mortage under this scheme, you still have an IRS, maybe under a different name but still indelibly there.

You make the elimination of the income tax and the IRS totally permanent with a Constitutional Amendment, then maybe. Also eliminate the sales tax from food clothing and shelter, then fine. You make it so that amendment and that amendment alone requires a non-duress clause and a 95 per cent vote to be counter amended, then maybe, just maybe. Otherwise consider it to be more smoke and mirrors, so guard your wallet carefully.

[edit on 2-8-2004 by SkipShipman]



posted on Aug, 2 2004 @ 03:18 PM
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I absolutely LOVE the Idea of Getting rid of the IRS who needs it who wants it? The answer to that Question is VIRTUALLY no one except ULTRA libirals.Dont get me Wrong I pay My Taxes and I do not make enough money to Pay in but the IRS Has been Abuseing there power for years.....And if the Income is Abolished the Government will be be Keeping a Promise they Made during world war2 for it to be SHORT TERM



posted on Aug, 2 2004 @ 05:15 PM
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Originally posted by intrepid
We have a national tax here in Canada, the GST(goods and services tax). 7%. It's very unpopular and during elections they roll out the old line, "We're going to abolish the GST." Guess what? It's still here. Once the gov't has money flowing in, they're reluctant to get rid of it.



Your right, they've been saying that for 24 years now...

Didn't Chretien promise to take it away in Welland Ontario?? YUP, he didn't...
It will never go away, liberals love to shake our pockets...



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