Canada: Stigmatizing lawful firearm owners

gun control is an illusion

the facts are the majority of all gun owner are law abiding citizens

and tell me how people get to the point of simply owning something has become illegal ?

i feel for any people in the us or canada who can not own a firearm.

and i believe that it is evil incarnate to make the only means of defense for any person a 9-11 call.

the police are the clean up crew i have yet to see crime prevented.

the time and tested saying banning guns and then only the criminals will have them ...

i am pro second ammendment and it doesnt matter where you live i will always be on the citizens side of their rights to keep and bear arms even if you dont have a second ammendment.

brothers in arms i beleive united in a common belief

In reality, I don't even think that the large majority of people living in the inner cities in this country understand the FAC process to begin with, nevermind forming an EDUCATED opinion that Canada ever needed such a thing as the liberal parties gun registry. I'd be willing to bet 90% of Canadians living in those same major urban centres don't have the slightest idea about the paper work, proof of good citizenship standing, mental background checks, firearms safety courses and other obstacles prospective gun owners have to go through to aquire an FAC in Canada. Thats just for rifles and shotguns, nevermind the handgun ownership process. I'd be willing to bet, when it comes to firearms, most ignorant uneducated Canadians think that anyone off the street can just walk into Bass Pro Shops and purchase a rifle; I'd put money on it.

The fact is that you will always have a group of people that will always stray away from personal accountability and will ALWAYS look to blame another group for their problems, especially the problem of inner city crime and the fact that these inner city crimes account for 99% of all gun crimes in Canada, FACT. Us law abiding gun owners like myself who enjoy plinking pop cans with my .22 rifle at the cottage on weekends end up paying the price, it's completely disgusting.

reply to post by Jocko Flocko


Have you got any statistics that prove your assertion about the 99%, or any of the purported 'facts' you cite?

What I find ironic is that Conservatives purport to be 'tough on crime' yet will directly oppose the police chiefs on the registry issue.

Like I said before, it remains to be seen if Harper will really scrap the registry. If he does then he goes against the police. That wouldn't look good after all the huffing and puffing he did about his party's crime crackdown.

""What I find ironic is that Conservatives purport to be 'tough on crime' yet will directly oppose the police chiefs on the registry issue. ""

And what I find ironic is that people such as yourself link inner city gun crimes and the wants and needs of inner city police chiefs with honest law abiding gun owners who have nothing to do with the problems some of the inner city cesspools face.

I'm guessing you also think the "certain groups" around Jane and Finch in Toronto who enjoy spraying each other with bullets every other day have a link to honest gun owners here in Canada right?

What a joke.

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
Storage laws have to be the most draconian things.

It simultaneously gives anyone the justification they need to search your person and property and gives them cause to seize your property and lock you up for committing absolutely no crime whatsoever.

This storage nonsense is right up there with drug laws for most absurd and tyrannical legislation that oculd land anyone anywhere at anytime in prison for nothing at all.

This crap really needs to go away.

Tell me about it!
I have some cop coming around my house to 'check the storage' of my shotgun (legally held) even though the storage for it's already ok and approved!

reply to post by Jocko Flocko


So, I guess the answer is no, you have no statistics to prove what you are saying. I thought as much. I just gave several examples of gun crimes committed by formerly "law-abiding citizens" with rifles. What do you do? Completely ignore them, just like most Conservatives do when they are confronted with the truth.

All you are focused on is "gangs with guns, gangs with guns." Sounds like you are fully indoctrinated with the Conservative mantra. First of all, there aren't as many murders in Toronto as you're letting on. I have to laugh when you say they are spraying bullets every other day. When was the last gang related murder in Toronto? The last possibly gang-related gunshot victim was back in January. That's four months ago.

The only joke here is your assertion of 99% of murders are inner city and gang related.

reply to post by TheComte


Here is a fact for you, I have never met a person that is anti gun that you can change their position. I have never met a pro gun person that going to "see the light" and change their mind. Bottom line is that where you live determines the gun laws based upon the majority rule of the voters.

Can't make a reasoned argument based in fact. The statistics are manipulated by advocates of both sides. You can't believe anyone's numbers because each side develops numbers to support their argument. So indoctrinate your kids I'll do the same and lets see who can affect the majority.

One thing, if you live near me and have a problem that can't be handled by the authorities and/or the SHTF come on over, I'll protect you and your family. Its the right thing to do.

reply to post by TheComte


Take it from someone else who actually does know what is going on and is not looking at the world through political blinders. Most, if not all gun crimes in southern ontario are the direct result of gang activity, and if you want sources, than go look for them! You can't just shoot people down until they provide "evidence" for you. Most civvies just plain don't see what's right in front of them. When you taint real content with MSM crapples you only end up frustrating yourself and anyone around you. Don't be so lazy! Google is there for a reason you know.

Originally posted by TheComte
reply to post by Jocko Flocko

 

All you are focused on is "gangs with guns, gangs with guns." Sounds like you are fully indoctrinated with the Conservative mantra. First of all, there aren't as many murders in Toronto as you're letting on. I have to laugh when you say they are spraying bullets every other day. When was the last gang related murder in Toronto? The last possibly gang-related gunshot victim was back in January. That's four months ago.

The only joke here is your assertion of 99% of murders are inner city and gang related.

Typical Torontonian. Take a look at somewhere other than a five block radius. Say BC? The statistics would probably be much more in favor of his argument.

Link to CBC 1

CBC link 2

Over all we can see that gun crime in Canada is perpetrated by gangs. Seeing that our total homicide rate for any given year is less than some US cities. That puts gun crime perpetrated by formerly honest gun owners down to less than minimal.

Some can say having guns are for safety, others may say others having guns is never safe.

In my perfect world, there are no guns. It's not we'll be having a zombie outbreak soon and martial arts should be the weapon of choice. Being a self warrior with ones body is honorable, guns are for the weak and scared.

reply to post by DaddyBare


We have the same problem in the states; that is the dems always wanting to control our every move. With the big push to control Hi capacity magazines, they think they will get lucky and see more of their partners in socialism get brave and try to pass more rigid conceal carry laws here in Virginia but thankfully, we have one of the more resistant states when it comes to passing new gun laws - most Virginians don't like the gun laws that are already in place.

reply to post by DaddyBare


My heart goes out to you. I cannot begin to imagine your pain. Im fairly certain he was being sarcastic.At least I hope he was and is not a complete moron.

Originally posted by User8911
Some can say having guns are for safety, others may say others having guns is never safe.

In my perfect world, there are no guns. It's not we'll be having a zombie outbreak soon and martial arts should be the weapon of choice. Being a self warrior with ones body is honorable, guns are for the weak and scared.

You are ridiculous and probably can't lift 20 lbs. Whether you crack someones neck or blow their head off there is nothing honorable about it. Keep ordering fantasy katanas if that makes you feel better though.

So what exactly is the registry? You're supposed to register your guns right? what would change without one? I moved to Canada a few years ago, and have never really thought too much about this issue. What if I had a gun from 30 years ago, are you supposed to register that?

reply to post by FEDec


We were talking specifically about Toronto as Jocko mentioned Jane and Finch and said there are gunfights every other day. An obvious exaggeration on his part. I realize that out west and Manitoba gangs are a much bigger problem than Toronto, but even then, I don't think there are gunfights every other day.

But I don't see how getting rid of the long gun registry is going to stop the drug gangs. But that seems to be the argument being put forward here. All I'm saying is that I will side with the police who say the registry is effective and useful in their jobs, therefore no need to scrap it.

This is all besides the fact that if you really wanted to stop gun crime you would stop its source: the illegal drug trade.

MJ goes south guns and coke come north. However because our politicians love kissing the feet of their southern counterparts it would be too much to suggest it was a security problem from south of the border. No they typically look for a scape goat that wont make too much fuss.

Note: this isn't a statement against Americans in general just their politicians and gun runners. Love you guys but I'm sure you would agree the aforementioned groups are douches no matter from which side of the border.

While we are at this let's discuss breaches of gun registry security which have led to lawful owners being robbed by criminal elements. Surely you can admit that there are very corrupt portions of our police forces and that giving them access to who has guns where is essentially giving that info to criminals?

Originally posted by TheComte
reply to post by FEDec

 

But I don't see how getting rid of the long gun registry is going to stop the drug gangs. But that seems to be the argument being put forward here. All I'm saying is that I will side with the police who say the registry is effective and useful in their jobs, therefore no need to scrap it.

I really don't see anyone claiming that. Only that the main source of gun crime in Canada is in fact gang related and therefore the registry doesn't have much effect. Some of the police forces in our country are massively corrupt. They will take any distraction needed to shift eyes away from the fact they are letting loads of drugs and guns across the border.

We were talking specifically about Toronto as Jocko mentioned Jane and Finch and said there are gunfights every other day. An obvious exaggeration on his part. I realize that out west and Manitoba gangs are a much bigger problem than Toronto, but even then, I don't think there are gunfights every other day.

The problem is actually getting pretty serious out west and it is not legal guns which are doing the killing. Which begs the question why aren't illegally imported guns more of an issue? Why isn't spending the millions allotted to the gun registry on border security a viable option.

You must admit one thing. Not every gun bought and registered legally will be used with intent to harm. Whereas every gun imported illegally will be used with intent to harm. So why isn't spending the money on busting up gun running rings a more viable option?

Political smoke screen perhaps?

Originally posted by FEDec
This is all besides the fact that if you really wanted to stop gun crime you would stop its source: the illegal drug trade.

Totally agree.

Originally posted by FEDec
While we are at this let's discuss breaches of gun registry security which have led to lawful owners being robbed by criminal elements. Surely you can admit that there are very corrupt portions of our police forces and that giving them access to who has guns where is essentially giving that info to criminals?

This is definitely a problem.

a farm without a gun is not a farm. anyone who spent time on a farm knows that rifle is an invaluable tool to have.

a farm is like a your own town. there is no help for miles so you are forced to be sheriff, mayor, employer and employee all rolled into one.

especially if you have a family and livestock.

the only reason farms aren't targeted for home invasions and theft is because it is basically common knowledge that if a farmer finds you snooping around his house, you're most likely going to be dodging bullets and end up getting buried near the pig feeder.

We just need to frame this in a way which is undeniable to all Canadians.

Legally registered guns MAY or MAY NOT be used for harm.

Illegal guns will DEFINITELY be used for harm.

It stands to reason that registry money would be better spent on protecting us from illegal guns.