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Canada: Stigmatizing lawful firearm owners

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posted on May, 12 2011 @ 04:55 PM
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Heh, well, i don't really care what you're supposed title is, you could be jesus christ himself. come into my house uninvited as a threat and you will be shot, stabbed, etc... its that simple. Like i said before, its not something i would want to do, but i will do it..
edit on 12-5-2011 by BanMePlz because: added a few lines




posted on May, 12 2011 @ 05:02 PM
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Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
reply to post by TheComte
 


How would having the rifle registered have prevented any of those deaths?


Thank you. I was waiting for someone to say that.

The fact is police take hundreds of calls a day across the country that don't make the news because no one gets killed. Each time they consult the registry. Now, who are you to say that the registry didn't prevent many deaths because the police knew about a registered firearm? We only hear about the deaths because they make the news.
edit on 12-5-2011 by TheComte because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 12 2011 @ 05:09 PM
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reply to post by tothetenthpower
 


Gotta disagree man. My Dad went from the Navy into the RCMP. I could shoot rifle, shotgun and pistol damn near a decade before I could drive. He taught me the proper use, safety, etc of ALL firearms. That knowledge is essential to people. You never know when you are going to need to use ANY firearm. Better to be prepared than to wing it(pun intended) when the time comes.

The long gun registry will be abolished. The Con's voter base dictates so. That said, I never registered mine. Dad agreed.



posted on May, 12 2011 @ 05:16 PM
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reply to post by TheComte
 


They don't "just" consult the registry.

First they drive out to the reported firearm offence. They ask to see your licence (PAL), than they cross check it to the registry.

I hate how people leave this part out. The last check is the registry not the first.

The fact of the matter is, when they pull up they have no idea if they are walking into a firefight or a law abiding citizen (not that firefights are all that common). And they wont know until they arrive and ID the person.

This is the flaw no registry supporter seems to want to make a statement on.

The registry means nothing until the person is ID'd, and at that point, the LEO's already have a very good idea if you are a threat or not. That makes it reactionary and useless. By the time they can ACTUALLY search the registry, they know if you are a threat...they are sitting in the front seat



posted on May, 12 2011 @ 05:24 PM
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reply to post by peck420
 


Well, I have to disagree. There is an address associated with any gun registered, is there not? When a call comes to go to a certain address can they not search the registry for the address? The way you are describing seems too convoluted to be true.



posted on May, 12 2011 @ 05:40 PM
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reply to post by TheComte
 


What do you propose? The cops want to come by and have a chat, they find out I own 30 guns, then what? You think they should come with an army just in case or something?



posted on May, 12 2011 @ 05:46 PM
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posted on May, 12 2011 @ 05:54 PM
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reply to post by alaskan
 


Well thanks for yet another anti-cop post.
That's the exception not the rule. And no, I will not jack this thread like this member did. So don't ask. The person got kicked in the face by a bad cop. If he'd been armed he'd be dead now. By and large the cops are better trained in firearm use than civilians in Canada. Jeez, I don't know why I even responded to this.



posted on May, 12 2011 @ 05:54 PM
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You know what is stupid? These cops are clearly unstable psychopaths, and then they just get put on administrative leave... Ha, Fire the scum. Gonna give them a second chance to do it again? I think they get some kind of sick pleasure out of it. I wonder if real cops are tired of stupid cops making them look bad?



posted on May, 12 2011 @ 06:04 PM
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reply to post by TheComte
 


I think you are correct, I recall reading somewhere in an RCMP document that every time an officer does a search on an address in their computer, the system will notify them if there are any firearms in the registry with that postal code associated with it, so the registry gets searched every time an address is pulled up in the system. That means the database is searched a lot of times every day. It's allowing them to know if you have firearms in your house before they pay a visit, but like TKDRL sort of said, why should that matter?

The thing is, it's not the people who will be setting up an ambush for the cops when they arrive that are registering their guns. The people who are dangerous to cops obviously aren't going to register their guns. Doesn't that make it totally useless when you can't rely on it at all? Or am I wrong? All in all, the PAL itself should be all that is required, IMHO.
edit on 12-5-2011 by Darce because: (no reason given)

edit on 12-5-2011 by Darce because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 12 2011 @ 06:12 PM
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Originally posted by intrepid
reply to post by alaskan
 


Well thanks for yet another anti-cop post.
That's the exception not the rule. And no, I will not jack this thread like this member did. So don't ask. The person got kicked in the face by a bad cop. If he'd been armed he'd be dead now. By and large the cops are better trained in firearm use than civilians in Canada. Jeez, I don't know why I even responded to this.

He got kicked in the face [by a bad cop] because he had a rifle in his truck... Kind of what this thread is about, wouldn't you say?

How is this guy a moderator?



posted on May, 12 2011 @ 06:13 PM
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reply to post by Darce
 


Some people just can't get it through their heads... The people that are bending over and obeying these stupid registries are not the ones you need to worry about for the most part.... If I was a criminal, I sure as hell wouldn't be using my own gun, I would steal someone else's, or buy a stolen one etc...

Saying things like oh registries save police lives is illogical, that is equating gun owners, who are following stupid laws as maniacs... Like I said, the cops are going to question someone, they find out they have a bunch of guns registered, so what? Does that mean they get to act like the moron US cops, and sick a paramilitary force on the house just in case?



posted on May, 12 2011 @ 06:20 PM
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reply to post by TheComte
 


And how exactly does the LEO get my address without ID'ing me?

I don't parade around my house with my rifle. The only time it is out is at range or hunting. All other times it is in case.



posted on May, 12 2011 @ 06:28 PM
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Originally posted by TheComte
Well, it remains to be seen whether Harper will abolish the registry or not. The police chiefs and associations have all come out in favour of the registry. I don't think Harper wants to be seen as going against the police. After all, he did campaign on being 'tough on crime.' His promise to scrap the registry was simply pandering to his base for support.

Marc Lepine murdered 14 women with a rifle. And Constable Valérie Gignac was shot and killed by a man with a rifle. Four RCMP officers shot and killed in Alberta with a rifle. OPP constable Vu Pham shot and killed with a rifle. It's disingenuous to say that long guns don't contribute to crime.


I know from inside information that most of those stories were highly exaggerated to promote some anti-gun agenda in the media.

For example, look at the Meyerthorpe incident where four mounties were shot. RCMP and media both claimed the shooter used a "high powered" rifle and was mentally unstable. In reality, those four rookie cops stumbled onto a large grow op and the guy mowed them down with an AK-47. They just didn't want to tell the truth about how serious the drug trade is in Alberta.

The fact is that most government rules concerning firearms are complete BS. In Canada, firearms account for only a small percent of murders; accidental deaths or suicides rank higher. There are also various types and caliburs of guns that are prohibited, despite the fact that criminals tend to use unregisters guns of the same type that law enforcement use.

The reality here is that many Canadians live rural lives and require guns to survive. Criminals who use guns are almost always gang or drug related. Seriously, where is the justice when we suffer under arbitrary gun regulations when the Red Scorpion bosses get busted with a crate full of P90s?



posted on May, 12 2011 @ 06:28 PM
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reply to post by Darce
 


Yes, it's true that career criminals do not register their guns. However, crimes do get committed by people who never thought they would turn into a criminal. Such as domestic violence (Vu Phan shot by a guy who was on his way to his estranged wife's house with his rifle, for example), and lots of other situations where the perpetrator didn't set out to become a criminal.

And to answer the question posed to me, no I don't think the cops should go busting into a house like in the article. Not for any reason, not just guns. But I think that problem goes far deeper than the gun registry.

For the record, I'm not for or against the gun registry. I will defer to the people who actually use it in their jobs and they say to keep the registry, that it is useful and effective.

www.cbc.ca...



...the registry now costs only about $4 million a year to operate and that officers use the registry up to 11,000 times a day, both to investigate and prevent crime.



posted on May, 12 2011 @ 06:32 PM
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reply to post by TKDRL
 


I think it's because a lot of Canadians who don't own guns and don't like them think that people who do like guns and do own them should not be trusted. There are probably more people than not who think any call on a house with more than ten guns in it would require SWAT, because that person must be a maniac, or a criminal, if the guns are registered and locked up safely or not.



posted on May, 12 2011 @ 06:34 PM
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reply to post by peck420
 


Really, how do the police get your address? Doesn't your FAC have an address on it?

I'm just saying if the police get a call to go to your address for whatever reason (break-in, domestic disturbance, loud partying), then they check the address to see if anything pops up.
edit on 12-5-2011 by TheComte because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 12 2011 @ 06:44 PM
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reply to post by TheComte
 


I think you are right about that, but my PAL doesn't have my address on it. All registered guns have an address associated with them though.

Persecuting law abiding gun owners simply because they own guns does sound like the Canada I know. In the city I'm from it's like; 'Why do they even have a gun after all?... they must be a criminal in hiding, or crazy.'



edit on 12-5-2011 by Darce because: (no reason given)


Just like it says in the article!




Far too often now, police and prosecutors are dubious of the mental stability of anyone who owns a gun, just because they own one. This is because C-68 has created a stigma regarding gun ownership. It has put the obligation on the gun owner to prove his interest in firearms is legitimate and not a sign of some sociopathic disorder


This is so true! You have to be crazy to want to own a gun in Canada. Everyone here is terrified of them and the people who own them. I don't know why, it's not like people get shot very often here. Most of the gun deaths by far are suicides.
edit on 12-5-2011 by Darce because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 12 2011 @ 06:47 PM
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Originally posted by tothetenthpower
The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

Anything that keeps guns off MY Canadian streets is good for me. Obviously our American friends will have a hard time understanding, but Canada is NOT nor has it ever been a firearms nation. We hunt, so we have rifles.

Anything else is a waste of time, money and is simply dangerous. IMO we should NOT have guns outside the military, I know that’s not a very popular opinion, but that’s the way I feel. Sure the gun registry needs a good cleanup to make it more efficient and less costly, but it should NOT be abolished.

~Keeper


As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



OK, sounds like a good idea. When we're ready to make Canada our 51st state, we'll send a girl scout troop up there and make it so thanks to gals like you.

In the meantime, I trust other Canadians don't feel as you and are willing to stand up for whatever rights the Queen bestows upon you.



posted on May, 12 2011 @ 07:06 PM
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I'm interested in your opinion about us Canadians and our hatred of firearms, DaddyBare. To one of us your story of your loss would make us assume that you would hate guns more than anyone. Your story makes me sad every time I read it and a part of me does wonder why you would ever want to touch a gun again after that. I guess I can't even comprehend living in a place where you actually need to carry a gun to protect yourself from other people with guns. We live in a blissful fantasy world here in Canada where nobody should have just cause to hurt anyone else, ever really. Maybe that is why we are so complicit when it comes to gun control?
edit on 12-5-2011 by Darce because: (no reason given)

edit on 12-5-2011 by Darce because: (no reason given)




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