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Amercia Behind The Nationalist Movement In Ukraine Victory Day?

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posted on May, 11 2011 @ 10:39 PM
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Before i begin speaking about it here are the headlines, this is the first that this happened in Ukraine, these groups are supposed to be neo nazis.

Bitter taste of Victory Day in Western Ukraine




The Ukrainian nationalists almost suceeded in destroying Victory Day celebrations in Lvov. They burned and trampled red flags and blocked people from approaching to lay ribbons at the the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier. The most barbarous act by the thugs was the trampling of a wreath, which was supposed to have been laid at the military cemetery by the Russian General Consul Oleg Astakhov. We hear from journalist Vladimir Sinelnikov, one of the witnesses of the events in Lvov:






But the political elite, which came to power in some of these countries, first of all anti-Russian elites, are trying to build their policies by distancing themselves from Russia. The rejection of the heritage of the Great Victory is one the methods to split the society and to stress their European choice."



And heres the image everyone should see




These people that are burning the soviet flags have no respect to history, in this image you will see how the old fools teach the young and the very young children to hate, but it makes me wonder is america behind this in someway? after all the american government doesn't like the Russians, they would use anything to set a fire agaisnt russia.




Ukrainian Nationalists Picket Russian Embassy In Kyiv





The picketers held placards saying such things as "We Shall Not Give Our Sovereignty to the Kremlin!" "Down with Russian Imperialism!" and "Moscow, Repent!"



Down with Russian Imperialism? what Russian Imperialism?

The only Imperialism taking over in eupore i see is that of the american Imperialism.





"We Shall Not Give Our Sovereignty to the Kremlin!"

But Ukraine Sovereignty already belongs to EU and american Imperialism and the Washington elites i just fail to see what russian Imperialism.

So what do you ATS think about the events in Ukraine that happend during V Day? whose behind that sabotage.

edit on 11-5-2011 by Agent_USA_Supporter because: (no reason given)




posted on May, 11 2011 @ 11:09 PM
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What sabotage? A group of people defending their sovereignty, and resisting globalist agendas? Oh wait, did someone tell you they were all Nazi Genocide Bloodthirsty Satan worshippers?

The history you are professing they are desecrating, is likely not real history, but false history.

Don't fall so easily for zionist propaganda, branding everyone a Nazi. Knowing well that they've brainwashed just about everyone to think of Nazi as some form of demon.
edit on 11-5-2011 by Tephra because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 11 2011 @ 11:18 PM
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Originally posted by Agent_USA_Supporter
Before i begin speaking about it here are the headlines, this is the first that this happened in Ukraine, these groups are supposed to be neo nazis.


Hogwash!

Of course a Russian media source is going to criticize any form of Ukrainian nationalistic ferver....being nationalistic does not mean being a Nazi......I dont see any swastika's in the crowd.

Nationalsitic=Patriotic....whats the difference?

english.ruvr.ru...


But this year the nationalists have got so outrageous that they even attacked the Russian diplomats when they were carrying a wreath to the monument to the Soviet soldiers who had sacrificed their lives liberating Lvov from the Nazis


History proves that many in Western Ukraine joined the advancing German forces during WW2 because they saw the germans as being their chance to liberate Ukraine from horrors of Russian control.




But the political elite, which came to power in some of these countries, first of all anti-Russian elites, are trying to build their policies by distancing themselves from Russia. The rejection of the heritage of the Great Victory is one the methods to split the society and to stress their European choice."


What is wrong with Ukrainians being proud of Ukraine and wanting to get rid of any Russian influence?


Originally posted by Agent_USA_Supporter

And heres the image everyone should see




Why is this image so important that you think everyone should see it? because some Ukrainians despise Russian interference in their country and daily lives so much that they burn the Soviet Flag? I do not find this bad at all.

Good on them for voicing their freedom of expression.


Originally posted by Agent_USA_Supporter
These people that are burning the soviet flags have no respect to history, in this image you will see how the old fools teach the young and the very young children to hate, but it makes me wonder is america behind this in someway? after all the american government doesn't like the Russians, they would use anything to set a fire agaisnt russia.


No respect for History you say?

What good has Russia brought to Ukraine? Ukraine as a nation was raped and pillaged during the Soviet years to keep the obligarchs in Moscow warm and their bellies fed whilst many millions died from starvation.

Holodymyr



The Holodomor (Ukrainian: Голодомор, 'Морити голодом', literal translation Killing by hunger) was a man-made famine in the Ukrainian SSR, part of the Soviet famine of 1932–1933. During the famine, which is also known as the "terror-famine in Ukraine" and "famine-genocide in Ukraine",[1][2][3] millions of Ukrainians died of starvation in a peacetime catastrophe unprecedented in the history of Ukraine.[4]


One can only "Hope" those that you call "old fools" are teaching the younger generation the truths about how vicous and evil the Soviet Regime was towards the Ukrainian populace.

Why would America be behind this in some way? You do not beleive that Ukrainians want to govern and control their own country without Russian interference?

The article is a load of rubbish if you ask me......one sided from the Russians. The sooner the Ukrainians rid their country of Russian influence the better.



posted on May, 11 2011 @ 11:20 PM
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Originally posted by Tephra
What sabotage? A group of people defending their sovereignty, and resisting globalist agendas? Oh wait, did someone tell you they were all Nazi Genocide Bloodthirsty Satan worshippers?

The history you are professing they are desecrating, is likely not real history, but false history.

Don't fall so easily for zionist propaganda, branding everyone a Nazi. Knowing well that they've brainwashed just about everyone to think of Nazi as some form of demon.
edit on 11-5-2011 by Tephra because: (no reason given)





The history you are professing they are desecrating, is likely not real history, but false history.


Oh boy you sir take the cake, no offense but sir you are wrong if you believe something like that


edit on 11-5-2011 by Agent_USA_Supporter because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 11 2011 @ 11:28 PM
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Originally posted by Melbourne_Militia

Originally posted by Agent_USA_Supporter
Before i begin speaking about it here are the headlines, this is the first that this happened in Ukraine, these groups are supposed to be neo nazis.


Hogwash!

Of course a Russian media source is going to criticize any form of Ukrainian nationalistic ferver....being nationalistic does not mean being a Nazi......I dont see any swastika's in the crowd.

Nationalsitic=Patriotic....whats the difference?

english.ruvr.ru...


But this year the nationalists have got so outrageous that they even attacked the Russian diplomats when they were carrying a wreath to the monument to the Soviet soldiers who had sacrificed their lives liberating Lvov from the Nazis


History proves that many in Western Ukraine joined the advancing German forces during WW2 because they saw the germans as being their chance to liberate Ukraine from horrors of Russian control.




But the political elite, which came to power in some of these countries, first of all anti-Russian elites, are trying to build their policies by distancing themselves from Russia. The rejection of the heritage of the Great Victory is one the methods to split the society and to stress their European choice."


What is wrong with Ukrainians being proud of Ukraine and wanting to get rid of any Russian influence?


Originally posted by Agent_USA_Supporter

And heres the image everyone should see




Why is this image so important that you think everyone should see it? because some Ukrainians despise Russian interference in their country and daily lives so much that they burn the Soviet Flag? I do not find this bad at all.

Good on them for voicing their freedom of expression.


Originally posted by Agent_USA_Supporter
These people that are burning the soviet flags have no respect to history, in this image you will see how the old fools teach the young and the very young children to hate, but it makes me wonder is america behind this in someway? after all the american government doesn't like the Russians, they would use anything to set a fire agaisnt russia.


No respect for History you say?

What good has Russia brought to Ukraine? Ukraine as a nation was raped and pillaged during the Soviet years to keep the obligarchs in Moscow warm and their bellies fed whilst many millions died from starvation.

Holodymyr



The Holodomor (Ukrainian: Голодомор, 'Морити голодом', literal translation Killing by hunger) was a man-made famine in the Ukrainian SSR, part of the Soviet famine of 1932–1933. During the famine, which is also known as the "terror-famine in Ukraine" and "famine-genocide in Ukraine",[1][2][3] millions of Ukrainians died of starvation in a peacetime catastrophe unprecedented in the history of Ukraine.[4]


One can only "Hope" those that you call "old fools" are teaching the younger generation the truths about how vicous and evil the Soviet Regime was towards the Ukrainian populace.

Why would America be behind this in some way? You do not beleive that Ukrainians want to govern and control their own country without Russian interference?

The article is a load of rubbish if you ask me......one sided from the Russians. The sooner the Ukrainians rid their country of Russian influence the better.








What good has Russia brought to Ukraine? Ukraine as a nation was raped and pillaged during the Soviet years to keep the obligarchs in Moscow warm and their bellies fed whilst many millions died from starvation.


Jobs, The soviets brought people jobs, people lives were better under the soviet then under a falling democratic society created by the american imperialism.


And what good did democracy brought to Ukraine? nothing but poverty democracy brings poverty and capitalism the worst form of it.


Maybe you should ask how are the east Germans doing under a unified Germany, you will see and hear interesting stories on that part.



posted on May, 11 2011 @ 11:33 PM
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Originally posted by Agent_USA_Supporter

Originally posted by Tephra
What sabotage? A group of people defending their sovereignty, and resisting globalist agendas? Oh wait, did someone tell you they were all Nazi Genocide Bloodthirsty Satan worshippers?

The history you are professing they are desecrating, is likely not real history, but false history.

Don't fall so easily for zionist propaganda, branding everyone a Nazi. Knowing well that they've brainwashed just about everyone to think of Nazi as some form of demon.
edit on 11-5-2011 by Tephra because: (no reason given)





The history you are professing they are desecrating, is likely not real history, but false history.


Oh boy you sir take the cake, no offense but your a nutjob if you believe something like that



Could you be more specific, or do you just like to spout mainstream brainwash babble about free minded people being nutjobs and pyschos.

What a convenient way out of a real dialog. What is your first language might I ask.


edit on 11-5-2011 by Tephra because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 12 2011 @ 01:28 AM
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Originally posted by Agent_USA_Supporter

Jobs, The soviets brought people jobs, people lives were better under the soviet then under a falling democratic society created by the american imperialism.


Peoples lives were only better in Russia...not in Ukraine....I have first hand experience reports from family of that. Ukraine was not called the bread basket of Europe for nothing....the farming sector of Ukraine was huge and prosperous...it fed most of Europe and Russia....the ufortunate part thou is because everything was taken from the Ukrainians under the Soviet empire to first and foremost feed Russia almost nothing was left for the Ukrainians to feed themselves....hence the huge starvation of 1932/33 - the first real genocide and far greater in numbers than the genocide of the jews in WW2.


Originally posted by Agent_USA_Supporter
And what good did democracy brought to Ukraine? nothing but poverty democracy brings poverty and capitalism the worst form of it.


First and foremost....it allowed the peasant farmers to keep what they grew for themselves and if they had any excess they were allowed to sell it on at the markets and keep a few dollars/dinars for themselves.....rather than have the soviets come in and pillage them of their crops for a beating....I know which one Id rather choose.



Soviet Russia was a dark period for the Ukranians....it is the cause of major division amongst the Western portion of Ukraine and the Eastern Portion of Ukraine...the latter being predominantly Russian immigrants hence more support for Russia from the easter than the west.

Unfortunately the tug of war in Ukraine between US and Russian influences in their local politics may cause a division of the country in two sadly.



posted on May, 12 2011 @ 03:14 AM
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reply to post by Melbourne_Militia
 




First and foremost....it allowed the peasant farmers to keep what they grew for themselves and if they had any excess they were allowed to sell it on at the markets and keep a few dollars/dinars for themselves.....rather than have the soviets come in and pillage them of their crops for a beating....I know which one Id rather choose.



typical response someone whose defending the fake illusion of democracy and defending the American imperialism occupation on eupore.


I can see how democracy is destroying eupore now and it was during the 90s, by leaving people in the streets, leaving them with nothing to eat.

As for these nationalists they are nothing more then neo nazis they dont represent the entire Ukraine, its no surprise to me that People like you on ATS are defending them,







edit on 12-5-2011 by Agent_USA_Supporter because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 12 2011 @ 05:23 AM
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Originally posted by Agent_USA_Supporter

typical response someone whose defending the fake illusion of democracy and defending the American imperialism occupation on eupore.


not defending American Imperialism or their occupation of Europe...what I am defending is Ukraines right to exist on its own, for itself, run by its own people for its own people and not for Russia, USA or anybody else.

Ukraine is a very very old historically nation.....its been a free nation for centuries albeit getting shafted every so often by Poles, Ottamans, Tatars, and Russians along the way. Ukrainian people are a proud people not disimilar from Americans.


Originally posted by Agent_USA_Supporter
As for these nationalists they are nothing more then neo nazis they dont represent the entire Ukraine, its no surprise to me that People like you on ATS are defending them,


Are you for real?

Seriously.....c'mon....thats like saying anyone who is patriotic, who loves their nation and is willing to die for it is a neo nazi.....grow up!

Have you been to Ukraine? Do you know and understand the people? The true Ukrainians are the ones predominantly living in the Western region of Ukraine...the one in the East have been very Russi-fied over the last century with Soviet occupation.

The problem is that this russification is so entrenched from the Soviet era that it is hard to rid off.


May I ask...why are you so pro-Soviet?

Are you a communist yourself?

Everybody knows that communism is only good in theory on paper...not in practise.

Capitalism has its flaws and Im not a beleiver in modern day capatilism the way it has become but for all its deficiencies its still allows the average man a fair go and an opportunity to try and become someone/something.



posted on May, 12 2011 @ 02:24 PM
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reply to post by Melbourne_Militia
 





Everybody knows that communism is only good in theory on paper...not in practise.



I could say the same for democracy is only good in theory on paper...not in practice.


Every elections the elites get elected, never there has a been leader that stood for the people in eupore, its always the same leader gets re elected every time.

The same goes for the american elections, why always the elites families huh?




"Democracy is not freedom. Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to eat for lunch." — Marvin Simkin

edit on 12-5-2011 by Agent_USA_Supporter because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 12 2011 @ 08:39 PM
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Originally posted by Agent_USA_Supporter

"Democracy is not freedom. Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to eat for lunch." — Marvin Simkin

edit on 12-5-2011 by Agent_USA_Supporter because: (no reason given)


as per my signature -



"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."
~ Benjamin Franklin



posted on May, 13 2011 @ 01:28 AM
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reply to post by Melbourne_Militia
 


www.youtube.com...

Video footage from russia today showing the neo nazis pushing and abusing ordinary citizens from getting to the memorial, and you still defend people like that?
typical.




IF libk doesnt work click this one same video.
edit on 13-5-2011 by Agent_USA_Supporter because: (no reason given)

edit on 13-5-2011 by Agent_USA_Supporter because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 18 2011 @ 10:26 PM
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Its the principal of the protest.......

the media stating that they are Neo-Nazi's doesnt help portray what is going on.

They are not making Nazi salutes, the are chanting protests and waving their arms in the air.

They are patriotic Nationalist Ukrainians protesting the celebration of a National Day of rememberance thats supports the soviet campaign in WW2.

The reporter said himself that many Ukrainians still beleive/feel their treatment under Nazi occupation was better than during Soviet occupation.

The video being from a German News Agency is typical of the way they portray anything thats remotely nationalistic for they are afraid of nationalist sentiment becoming too strong within their own country and it also goes against European Union beleifs.....the whole aim of the EU is to eliminate nationalist fervour......but the average person in Europe is fed up with it.

I dont accept the media's clear biased in this reporting.

I compare this to the Arab Israeli conflict.....you will get two vastly different news reports of the same incident whether it be from Fox news or Al Jazeera.

Nothing more to say about this.....if your proud of your country you will protest and fight for it.

Amercians fought the war of independance from britain didn;t they?

What if British people in the states were to have a public holiday and mark any major battles one during that war aginst the americans? There'd be uproar in the states....exact same analogy.



posted on May, 19 2011 @ 12:48 AM
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Originally posted by Melbourne_Militia
Its the principal of the protest.......

the media stating that they are Neo-Nazi's doesnt help portray what is going on.

They are not making Nazi salutes, the are chanting protests and waving their arms in the air.

They are patriotic Nationalist Ukrainians protesting the celebration of a National Day of rememberance thats supports the soviet campaign in WW2.

The reporter said himself that many Ukrainians still beleive/feel their treatment under Nazi occupation was better than during Soviet occupation.

The video being from a German News Agency is typical of the way they portray anything thats remotely nationalistic for they are afraid of nationalist sentiment becoming too strong within their own country and it also goes against European Union beleifs.....the whole aim of the EU is to eliminate nationalist fervour......but the average person in Europe is fed up with it.

I dont accept the media's clear biased in this reporting.

I compare this to the Arab Israeli conflict.....you will get two vastly different news reports of the same incident whether it be from Fox news or Al Jazeera.

Nothing more to say about this.....if your proud of your country you will protest and fight for it.

Amercians fought the war of independance from britain didn;t they?

What if British people in the states were to have a public holiday and mark any major battles one during that war aginst the americans? There'd be uproar in the states....exact same analogy.





the media stating that they are Neo-Nazi's doesnt help portray what is going on.



Huh didn't you even bother of viewing it? the neo nazis in the video were carrying and waving the nazi flags, i am not surpised people like you on ATS are supporting them, and are supporting the neo nazi movement, no wonder why the mainstream thinks then some on ATS are nuts.




Amercians fought the war of independance from britain didn;t they?

If
Amercians fought the war of independence why does america and britian get along so nicely, not mention most of the american tv familiar show judges are british, i wonder what do you think the veterans who fought Britannia, what do you think they would say, if they see that america and britain are getting along just nicely and the fact.

The queen, always visits the east coast, where the majority of the battlefields took place, do you think those
independence soldiers would welcome her?





The reporter said himself that many Ukrainians still believe/feel their treatment under Nazi occupation was better than during Soviet occupation.



Oh really thats pretty much a sick twisted statement you pulled there, many Ukrainians dont feel that way, this happened in the west of Ukraine.






that many Ukrainians still believe/feel their treatment under Nazi occupation was better than during Soviet occupation.


Right i am sure thats how the Italians felt the same way too
If you were in Serbia, or Croatia during world war II you wouldn't be saying that.


Nazis killed innocent millions of serbs,romas,jews, in Croatia and even installed a puppet nazis government, Serbs weren't nazis, didn't you know? for every dead German nazi soldiers,squad a entire village, city will be destroyed.





I dont accept the media's clear biased in this reporting.


Really? biased reporting, lol thats a good one, i would rather trust Russia Today over the western mainstream news.







They are not making Nazi salutes, the are chanting protests and waving their arms in the air.

They are patriotic Nationalist Ukrainians protesting the celebration of a National Day of rememberance thats supports the soviet campaign in WW2.


They were waving Naizs flags in the video post i posted, its clear that your spreading an agenda of neo Nazism movement on ATS, for once i dont support and nor welcome it.





They are not making Nazi salutes,

Yes they were, the Heil salutes are most common in the neo nazism movement.


If they weren't nazis why are they wearing Nazis soldiers T-Shirts in the video?

edit on 19-5-2011 by Agent_USA_Supporter because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 19 2011 @ 01:44 AM
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Im done with this....we are just going in circles here......



posted on May, 19 2011 @ 02:18 AM
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Can anyone please post a new thread to bring attention to the fact that it appears Russia may have just invaded all 14 of the ex-Soviet countries that include Georgia, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Belarus, and the Ukraine. It looks like this news will break first thing this morning in the New York Times (please see picture of a folded advance copy of the NYT newspaper dated today with part of the story and headline showing that is linked below):
imageshack.us...

I have just returned to ATS and I haven’t yet posted enough replies for me to post the new thread myself.

Thanks.



posted on May, 19 2011 @ 03:45 PM
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Originally posted by Jakesback
Can anyone please post a new thread to bring attention to the fact that it appears Russia may have just invaded all 14 of the ex-Soviet countries that include Georgia, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Belarus, and the Ukraine. It looks like this news will break first thing this morning in the New York Times (please see picture of a folded advance copy of the NYT newspaper dated today with part of the story and headline showing that is linked below):
imageshack.us...

I have just returned to ATS and I haven’t yet posted enough replies for me to post the new thread myself.

Thanks.


why do you post this?
you have made this same request in at least three different threads..
have you no clue? this is disinfo if not an actual lie..

read my response here..www.abovetopsecret.com...




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