A personal Gun story you won't see on the news!!

reply to post by getreadyalready


Good handling of the situation Getready. Nicely defused without violent confrontation. Your physical size and appearance may have gven them second thoughts but the 380 in the hole provided the confidence that they saw to convince them to go away.

Originally posted by 412304
reply to post by The Old American

 

I dissagree with the whole "guns arnt bad, people are bad" statement. Guns dont MAKE people bad but they sure as hell help the bad people out.

I disagree. A bad person will be a bad person gun or not. Force is just as easily to apply with a fist or rock or a knife or a stick or a etc, etc. does this then make the fist, rock, knife etc bad? Just because someone can kill you with a hammer which one is bad the hammer or the person. Tools do not create evil or help it out. Firearms level the field, nothing more, nothing less.

Originally posted by pteridine
reply to post by getreadyalready

 

Good handling of the situation Getready. Nicely defused without violent confrontation. Your physical size and appearance may have gven them second thoughts but the 380 in the hole provided the confidence that they saw to convince them to go away.

That is exactly what I was getting at.

Without the gun, I might have chosen to try and get on the bike and leave, or I might have chosen to just ignore them and wait too long to see what their intentions were. I might have even chosen to be more aggressive than necessary to keep the odds in my favor, and it could have gotten me into trouble.

The .380 in the hole provided me a layer of insurance, and it helped me to keep a calm and calculated approach, and that was the confidence they saw to convince them to go away.

Originally posted by getreadyalready


I think the whole "spidey sense" thing is why I immediately reached for the gun. I didn't pull it out, I only reminded myself where it was, flipped the safety off, and verified that I could quickly access it.

I don't know if the spidey sense thing would work in a court of law if you shot someone for nothing.

Let's take this scenario to a whole new level. What if they were off duty park rangers getting ready to ask the wife if she needed help. Now, what if the OP's spidey sense was off the charts? He shoots people just trying to help. For some odd reason I'm thinking about the deliverance scene in which burying bodies comes to mind.

Here is another thought to ponder. He used the words "spidey sense" correct? This is why I think people with guns think they are super hero's going around protecting the good guys from the bad guys.

Part of me thinks they go looking for trouble. Trouble don't find them they go find the trouble. Let's not kid ourselves either. These carry and conceal folks only carry and conceal because they might need to take a life.

Down here in TX if you shoot the wrong man you can't even be prosecuted for negligence. They would give you a medal. States are deputizing its citizens with carry and conceal licenses. AT LEAST they should be able to be prosecuted for negligence if they screwed up.

reply to post by getreadyalready




Amazing. You handled it like any responsible gun owner should.

I live in Australia where the gun laws are a lot stricter, but because I live on quite a large property in the NSW Blue Mountains my brother and I own a couple of rifles (.22 and .243) for hunting (Both registered and licensed).

A couple of times we've had people come onto our property, mostly teens looking to make some mischief, but sometimes we've had larger groups of people.

Every time we've gone to investigate my rifle has been slung over my shoulder. Thank god I've never had to use it, but the most important defence is to act serious and assertive.

S&F

reply to post by LosLobos


You wouldn't shoot someone for nothing. Defending yourself with a firearm is not done casually. The courts would seek evidence that you were cornered and had no choice but to defend yourself with deadly force. Saving property is not a valid reason. If you can retreat, you must, unless attacked.

Getready avoided confrontation and legal grief with his actions. This is the best use of his firearm.

reply to post by LosLobos


But I wouldn't "shoot someone for nothing." No chance, no way, it wouldn't happen.

Just because I was hyper aware, and prepared to shoot someone if necessary, it is a big jump from there to a dead body. I think many of the posters and I have shown plenty of examples of how the gun can be used to diffuse a situation, and how gun owners show considerable restraint.

Suppose those guys had continued to approach and I asked them to stop, the kept coming, and I pulled the gun out and demanded that they stop, they ignore the multiple warnings and threats and get within striking distance, I fear for my life, and I shoot them. That is a justified use of force, even if they are unarmed.

I have had ample opportunity to shoot people, even justifiably, but I have always had other choices, and I have always chosen those other options. I won't be killing anybody "by accident." If they are dead, then they deserved it.

Think of it this way. How would a police officer handle this situation. They would have started with "can I help you?" and maybe "doing some fishing?' When they didn't respond he would have advanced assertively showing that he was in charge. This is exactly what the OP did, he showed them he was in control. For those flaming him whats the difference from a citizen doing or a cop? the answer.... The cop would have had the situation escalate. He would have separated the people out, probably searched the truck and people, detained and questioned them. How is that more right then the OP just showing authority and letting them go on their marry way?

Good thread man , good read
2nd

The real scary part of this is that those scum-bags are more than likely going to go do this again and this time they will abduct at gun point. You handled the situation well. My blood just boils thinking about how monsters as you describe simply don't care at all about being a good citizen, they simply want to act out any evil thought that comes into their animal brains. If we think and want to "Take-out-the-Garbage" of our society, we become no better than the criminals themselves. How in the Hell can this type of problem ever get resolved ? Some day I will tell you guys why I have to openly carry a sidearm at a Radio Controled Airplane flying site here in Northern Utah. You wont believe why !! MM

reply to post by getreadyalready


Ok... so with that quote you had early about force and persuasion am i right in saying that the states which do not permit a civilian to carry a gun in public should not be aloud to have guns at all? It would only be the bad people who carry the guns because it is illegal to do so. Therefor the populace is under the "force" of anyone willing to break the law and carry a gun.

My view is that you could probably have the same security with a total populace having guns or a total populace without them, but allowing guns just makes it easier for the bad people to have more force. If you have a scenario where everyone is allowed to have guns at all times, not everyone will carry a gun, so your saying that they dont deserve to be equally defended when an attacker comes at them with a pistol?
But having said that i guess it isnt really fair either that a 50kg lady comes up against a bad person who is 110kg and built like a brick sh!@ house.

Hmm.... im stumped... I guess the truth is that with or without guns there are always going to be bad people, and before anyone says "so you think we should allow guns then?" no i still stand by not having guns, but i guess that is because im from Australia and i prefer a good ol' fist fight rather then guns because no one here has them, therefor i do not need a gun to equal an attackers force.

reply to post by LosLobos

Let's take this scenario to a whole new level. What if they were off duty park rangers getting ready to ask the wife if she needed help. Now, what if the OP's spidey sense was off the charts?

I don't think you have been paying attention?

#1 I would quickly recognize law enforcement. The State doesn't hire people with no teeth, and they have a certain look and demeanor.

#2 If they were there to help, all they had to do was say so. Instead they chose to back away and leave.

#3 I tried to lighten up the story a little bit with the term "spideysense", but I am not trying to be a superhero. I wouldn't be here telling the story, admitting I was scared, and celebrating the boring ending if that were the case.

Since you like hypotheticals.....how often do you hear of accidental shootings in the US? Statistics place them anywhere from 600 to 1500 per year. Some of those are hunting accidents, some are guns being mishandled by owners, very very few are from misidentification of a threat.

So, out of hundreds of millions of legal guns owned in the US, mishaps are extremely small. Incidents like the one I describe are all too common, as evidenced by this thread alone. It is pretty obvious that gun owners are not running around like superheros killing everyone that looks funny.

Compare that to

232,960 women in the U.S. were raped or sexually assaulted in 2006. That's more than 600 women every day

Source and that is only the reported rapes!

As of 2008, statistics report as that of 16,277 murders

Source

So, with hundreds of millions of legal guns, there was a 0.0005 % accident rate. Of that very low percentage, only a smaller portion was due to gun owners acting rashly.

At the same time 232,960 people were raped and another 16,277 people murdered. Since criminals are forbidden from owning guns, we can assume these crimes were committed with illegal guns, or other weapons.

So, how does a law-abiding gun owner pose a threat again?

reply to post by 412304

but allowing guns just makes it easier for the bad people to have more force. If you have a scenario where everyone is allowed to have guns at all times, not everyone will carry a gun, so your saying that they dont deserve to be equally defended when an attacker comes at them with a pistol?

If we don't allow guns, the criminals don't respect the law, and they will have them anyway. If they don't have a gun, they might still be bigger, meaner, have a machete, or whatever. So, there job isn't any easier or harder, they will still find a way to do harm.

BUT, if we don't allow guns, the vast majority of people won't have a way to defend themselves against a meaner, more physical attacker. The "force equation" favors the younger, stronger, more aggressive people who have less respect for law and order.

On the other hand, if we DO allow guns. Maybe it is easier for the criminals to get guns, but every potential victim also has an equal right to be armed. A 20 year old 250lb male is on equal ground with an 80 year old grandmother. Without the gun, the 20 year old wins 100% of the time. With the guns, the 20 year old wins some smaller percentage of the time, ideally it would be 50/50!

If someone chooses to be a pacifist, not resist, not defend themselves, then that is their right, but it has nothing to do with what they "deserve," it only has to do with their own personal choices. It isn't the fault of the government, or the society, or the gunmakers, it is an individual choice. If we choose to make that choice for everyone, then we are choosing who "deserves" a right for life and liberty. We are deciding that only the young, strong, males will have the advantage in force equations. I don't believe that is our right to decide for anyone else. I say we make all guns legal in all places at all times, and let the individuals make the choices.

Originally posted by Vanishr
reply to post by OldCorp

 

Interesting story sir, i do like your picture, and the looks of that gun

all this talk of guns makes me want loads of guns lol, Damn the UK.

I have a new gun story, from today:

Today is my youngest child's 13th birthday. I have been teaching him how to handle firearms of various types for the last couple of years, thusly:



Well today, being a "man" and all I bought him his first shotgun - a .410 Snake Charmer.






As you can see from the video, I have a lot of work to do with my son before I'll be able to trust him to go off with this - let's make no mistake about this - DEADLY weapon alone. I am going to keep "his" new shotgun in the gun safe, and the ammunition will be stored in a lockbox inside said safe.

As I said earlier, everyone should at least be familiar with the use of a firearm, even if they don't intend on owning one themselves. If I were the Secretary of Education, I would mandate a minimum of two six week courses - one for middle school kids (10-13 years of age) and another for high school sophomores - that would teach gun safety and give the kids the opportunity to become familiar with the use of a variety of weapons on a gun range. Now that I think about it, a primer course for 1st and 2nd graders wouldn't be a bad idea either.

Gun ownership is as American as apple pie and baseball; everyone either has a weapon or knows someone who does. Unfortunately, not all of those gun owners are responsible with those weapons, and we hear news reports all the time of a child who was playing with a loaded weapon and either kills themselves, the playmate, or an innocent bystander. Child, 6, brings gun to school; 3 children injured when he drops the weapon and it discharges in a crowded school cafeteria.

I had to roll my eyes when I got to the bottom of the article, where it stated:

kindergartner who brought the gun could face disciplinary action including being sent to an alternative school for up to 180 days.

Seriously? The child was not at fault here; he obviously lacked the capacity to understand how dangerous bringing his parent's pistol to school was. If anyone should be punished, it's his parents for leaving a loaded weapon out where the child could get to it.

Gun ownership is one of the most basic rights enjoyed by Americans, something that can not be said for citizens of most other developed countries; but with that privilege comes TREMENDOUS responsibility. When you are packin' heat you have the ability to take someone's life in a spit second, whether the taking of that life is intentional or not. YOU are responsible for whatever happens when that weapon discharges, whether you're snagging a rabbit or deer for dinner or defending yourself or someone else from a violent crime, and a responsible gun owner is well-trained, mature, and SOBER.

According to the latest statistics I could find (a 2005 Gallup Poll) around 40% of American households have at least one weapon on the premises, and many gun owners own several guns. It is estimated that there are 600 MILLION registered, legally owned firearms in the US - two for each citizen. With this many weapons around, I don't think it's such a bad idea to teach children, in an ongoing curricula, about firearm use and safety; even if it just starts with telling kindergarteners, "DON'T PLAY WITH DADDY'S GUN. You will get hurt."

I said it before, and I'll say it again in case anyone missed it. Gun ownership in the US is not only a right, but a time honored tradition; but along with that right comes real responsibility: the responsibility for taking - or protecting - a human life. IMO, everyone who chooses to use a firearm - whether they just hunt during deer season or carry a sidearm for protection every day - should be trained in the use of it. Requiring handguns to be sold with a trigger lock or a sidearm safe is also something I would support. Accidents happen, but they could be reduced significantly if folks were more cognizant of the fact that they need to be handled with extreme care, and kept out of the hands of children who lack the capacity to make sound judgments.

I may have put this story on ATS before but this seems like a good place for it.

In the early 1980s I functioned as a property manager in Savannah, GA for some commercial investment property my mother owned. One of the buildings had a topless bar run by a Vietnamese immigrant in one half of the downstairs. For a couple of years she paid rent on time with no problem. When she stopped paying rent she started dodging me. Finally I called the bartender and asked her when the owner would be there. I was told she would be there at 11:00pm and I was there waiting for her. She didn't make excuses and handed me a check for all she owed and gave me the drink I had been nursing waiting for her on the house.

I left and got in my car to head to my home in the islands east of Savannah. The bar was in a part of town I wouldn't normally go to at night and although I wasn't really expecting trouble I had brought my licensed .357 magnum revolver. My car was a 1981 Camaro with T-top roof. Since it was a cool clear night I took the roof panels out and stowed them in their bags in the trunk. I had only gone a couple of blocks and was waiting at a Stop sign for traffic to clear when a black guy in flamboyant pimp attire popped out of the shadows at the entrance to a bar and asked me if I wanted a girl. I told him no thanks I didn't want a girl.

He walked to the edge of the sidewalk and proceeded to ask me if I wanted drugs, gambling, or a boy. I told him no to all but being a diligent capitalist entrepeneur he wasn't going to take no for an answer. He stepped off the curb and up to the passenger door saying, "Man, you got to at least come see these girls" and grabbed my door handle. When he grabbed the door handle I pulled the .357 Magnum from where I had put it between the seat and the transmission tunnel telling him, "I told you no. Now let go of my door handle". He let go of my door handle like it was red hot and put both hands in the air. With the hands still up he backed up to the curb and on to the sidewalk repeating, "It's cool, it's cool, it's cool". Then he bolted around the corner and was gone.

The gun at the very least got me out of a potentially dangerous situation. No shots were fired and no one was hurt. Without it he would have been in my car and it's a certainty he was armed with something. He never threatened me but once he had me on his turf on his terms things might have been different.

Many, many times the presence of gun defuses a bad situation with no one getting hurt. Most of the 2 million times a year people use a gun to defend themselves no shots are fired. When the tables are turned on a common street criminal and their prey becomes a threat they usually cease to think about anything except getting out alive. I should note I never even pointed the gun against this guy. All he had to was see it to realize he was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Havinf the upper hand always helps whether it's haing a gun, aknife, a skill, money or intelligence.

Most times you don't have to use them, but knowing you have them does give you confidence.

Most attackers rely on fear. Even if you don't have a gun or a weapon, acting like you do might help or it might aggravate. Lack of fear could also be a confidence issue.

I was confronted by an angry mob once and I dismissed and disbursed them with a question they couldn't answer, they got confused and left.

Guns are not the only weapon.

As long as you know what your weapon is.

Originally posted by pteridine
reply to post by LosLobos

 

You wouldn't shoot someone for nothing. Defending yourself with a firearm is not done casually.

So simply walking up to someone demands you draw your weapon? The OP said people who looked like deliverance people simply walked toward his wife. His first thought was to put his finger on the trigger.

There is such a thing as helping your fellow man. But the OP's original thought was some movie and that they were up to no good.

reply to post by LosLobos


Stop putting words in my mouth.

I never drew the weapon, I never put my finger on the trigger.

Stop fantasizing, and try making coherent points.

Originally posted by LosLobos
So simply walking up to someone demands you draw your weapon? The OP said people who looked like deliverance people simply walked toward his wife. His first thought was to put his finger on the trigger.

.

Read it again. He simply made sure it was ready to fire if he needed it in a hurry. He also never displayed it or threatened anyone. If they were innnocent they would have never known he was concerned. Their actions didn't seem innocent and when they realized they didn't have just a small relatively helpless female they left. Maybe they were innocent and suspected the OP was a threat to them but it really doesn't matter. What matters is the OP defused a potentially deadly situation with no one getting hurt. I'd say he did pretty good.

Edit:

OP got in while I was typing.