The Death of Osama bin Laden: Results of the survey!

reply to post by brianmg5


Since you had copied my words in your post then the evidence seemed to point to me as the person you addressed, therefore I responded to your comments.

Looks like ATS has a much larger sample size although the sample is very bias. ATS doesn't include as many the brainwashed sleepwalkers
edit on 12-5-2011 by crimvelvet because: add

Right, just the paranoid sheep who will believe anyone who rebels. Not to mention that most members here will always come up with the worst possible assumption on any given subject and then close their mind and defend said assumption until they're blue in the face.

I am on ATS (and other websites) because they have people asking questions. This indicates they are not comatose like most Americans.

Heck, even the sheeple aren't buying the official line about this...

Not without pictures and video. Once he admitted we have them, but won't show them, and then we buried the body at sea with no other confirmation by others, it was ripe for cries of government coverup.

I can't tell you how many places I've been where I've overheard conversations that have the same conclusions.

1) He's dead.

2) We didn't kill him then, but much earlier.

3) They sat on it, until a time they felt was good for re-election.

Once again, the government's own actions provide the best evidence for the coverup.

geez how can anyone be neutral on those

fence sitters.

i am surprised that more people didnt buy the official government line tho.

government lies we all know it and its been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Originally posted by LexMustReturn
reply to post by SkepticOverlord

 

The results are saddening. Even Al Qaeda has admitted that OBL was killed then. These results just tell me that there are too many that would rather spin a topic as 'CONSPRACY" rathjer than accept the truth.

Not to mention his Wife who was there and shot also. ...and the Pakistani people and government who think he was shot that day.

Most are here for entertainment and a very few are here looking for genuine conspiracies and real evidence. I think more than a few based their answers on what they thought would paint either Bush or Obama in the worst light. I highly doubt people voted their true thoughts, unclouded by their partisanship. In this case questioning the truth about Osama works for both sides, which gives highly skewed numbers. I would not be surprised if half or more of those participating did so for political reasons.

Interesting however. I doubt you would get even close to those percentages with a true random polling of the general population. In this case having a large contingent of American Hater's, Terrorist and Sharia apologists and supporters, some would give the answers they think hurts Americans the worst.

Polls are funny things in that they reveal lots of things the questions don't ask.

I'm a bit curious why the poll was not left to run for 10 days or so to get a larger sampling?

The real conspiracy here is that Osama was able to hide out in that compound for that many years in plain sight of the military and government of Pakistan. That is where the evidence leads and there is no evidence that Osama was dead prior to this. Ignoring real evidence and facts is "Denying Ignorance"

One thing is clear, the political insanity is gearing up to be truly epic as we approach the next presidential election and the Partisan nonsense goes into full gear. Should be a very entertaining ride.

reply to post by crimvelvet


I think when it comes down to it, you and I are in agreement. I also enjoy the questioning of this site and of others. However, the majority of posts I read on this website are subscribing to emotionally charged assumptions/opinions and touting them around as fact. Take the title of this survey for example. Since when has this been an assassination? Where did that come from? What was the person thinking when they wrote that? It's biased. This survey was biased before it began. It's based on assumptions and not the known facts.

There are many things in this world that we know nothing about and we have to accept that. Technically, we don't know what's good and what's bad. What looks like deceit coming from a government entity could be their attempt to overthrow a shadow government....WHO KNOWS?!?!?!? (don't read into that example, it's just that, an example) And why would we, the conspiracy theorists that we are, desire to dumb down a situation to just simple assumptions anyways?

But worse, and more common than anything else I see on this website, the all time obstructionist of the truth...Confirmation Bias

While there is a population of fact finding extremely intelligent people on websites such as this one, there are far more people here seeking to validate how they feel.

Originally posted by neo96
geez how can anyone be neutral on those

fence sitters.

i am surprised that more people didnt buy the official government line tho.

government lies we all know it and its been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt.

I think your post shows the value/non value of this. You don't 'buy the government line', absolutely no proof that said line is wrong, but you automatically assume it is. Clicking neutral should mean I don't have evidence to support one view or another - you don't but let's face it, you had set your opinion already, hadn't you?

reply to post by something wicked


well we have been shown no proof other than a 15 minute speech by the president of this country on the biggest news of this century.

my opinion was made sunday nite by that 15 minute speech

words are cheap trillions spent thousands of lives lost

the proof is whats owed

people claim everything under the sun can they ever prove it?

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by something wicked

 

my opinion

This is the truth. It shouldn't go beyond this, yet it does and when it does, it causes fear.

And....

“Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.”

Yoda.

reply to post by brianmg5


the funny part here is not that its really funny before i started coming to ats

i would be sitting here right now believing the word of government hook line and sinker.

coming to ats has sort of freed my mind to most things however there are still things i still have a great deal of skepticism about.

and your right what i post is just an opinion no better or worse than any other opinion on here.

Very crafty. Quote only a small portion of my post, the part in which I acknowledge the bias, and then suggest I read some book about how numbers can be manipulated. You could probably get a job at MSNBC.

Originally posted by crimvelvet
reply to post by Nonya

 

You know, 5000+ responses is a very large sample. I have seen medium size elections called after 5000 votes were cast.

Yes it is a very large sample size but it is a BIAS sample population as several others have said. I suggest you read:

How to Lie with Statistics

Just for interest, we looked at some ways to deceive using statistics. The little book, "How to Lie With Statistics" was written about 1954. You can still get it today! It may be 50 years old, but the funny business that Darrell Huff described in the 50's is still going on today. The book is just as useful now as it was in 1954. Everyone ought to read it.... www.physics.smu.edu...

AMAZON

That said, what I found very interesting was the number of visitors and how overwhelming the skepticism is.

Now compare that to the heated arguments that often seem to indicate the exact opposite!

Seems ATS has gained notice and is now subject to "re-brainwashing"

Seems even NASA has noticed us!

reply to post by Immortalgemini527


That video was prove to be a hoax the man in the video was an impostor, send to the media during 2001 by Rumsfeld and never explained to the public, that is why Americans believe that Bin laden was the masterminded but actually it was never a confession, Old news my friend.

I like the idea of the graph depicting the ATS members as a second column next to the total, although I think it would be very interesting in the discussion sense of things if the total graph was displayed first and THEN the comparison graph was displayed a couple of days later.

9000+ people is a large poll in a media sense (even if only 4,217 are conspiracy 'nuts') but unlike most polls this one is open to anyone whom finds it ( as opposed to target groups that polls are usually done on ). Most medical surveys that determine drug safety are conducted with a lot less , perhaps 1000 to 1500 if one is lucky and has a well funded study, and those are certainly done on target groups with the result being used to certify the "safety" of prescription medicine.

Yes polls are interesting , but it is not the generality of people and the ease of a complacent mind that affects change, it is the percentage of people with the right intelligence and fortitude to take action. What percentage of the population was responsible for the (successful) U.S. revolution ?.

The concept of denying ignorance is a concept in the mind, try to physically suppress it and it only grows, and though this poll was done 'in a fish bowl' according to some posters , it has been my observation in the short time i have been on ATS that posters fall neatly into two one of two categories (with few exceptions, but some sub categories )

Those whom use 'scientific method ' (for thinking and analysis);

Occam's razor is sometimes taken as" invent no extraordinary hypothesis." It seems obvious that one should use ordinary hypothesis in preference to extraordinary ones when the former will explain the data.

It seems equally obvious that we would be doomed never to discover some of the most extraordinary things yet to be learned if we use no extraordinary hypothesis. Indeed, the occasional extraordinary hypothesis which turns out to be true (though most are not ) is sure to have little supporting evidence at first( or else it wouldn't be extraordinary)

and those who use Unscientific Method:

It seems to matter not whether the hypothesis is right or wrong, but only that it is completely unacceptable to the 'authorities' of the times for it to produce an unscientific response.

You may look for this phenomenon whenever you hear someone espousing a new idea. Do his opponents stick to the hypothesis and use scientific principles in their replies? Or do they switch to the "Unscientific Method" with it's most useful weapon, the "ad-hominem" Attack? This is where one tries to discredit the (speaker/poster) himself , his institution , his motives , or anything associated with his ideas , rather than addressing the ideas themselves.

Another principle of the U.M. is "discrediting by association", E.g. "96% of Heroin users previously smoked marijuana" is just as true as "96% of Heroin users previously drank milk" . By the rules of logic neither of the assumed relationships can be derived as fact from the association in our minds alone, unless one also adds a chain of evidence connecting either milk or marijuana to heroin use .
- Van Flandern

and Christians , gays and conspiracy 'nuts' are not the only exclusive clubs let's not forget other entrenched systems:

"Trying to find an open minded scientist is like trying to find a fundamentalist Christian who loves his enemies." -John Anthony West

reply to post by Skywatcher2011


Try posting the poll on JREF, the results would probably be hilariously different.

reply to post by neo96


as a neutral poster on some of those i will explain why i voted neutral, there were only two i was not neutral on, i think 1 i agreed and another disagreed.

whilst i think there is not enough evidence put forward that confirms bin ladens death directly (infact they seem to be avoiding it all they can and trying to silence conspiracies using third party evidence or certain peoples say so)
i do not know all the facts and i have no proof they did'nt kill him. so i would be lying if i said i totally trust the evidence that we have so far to prove bin ladens death, but i would also be lying if i said i think he is not dead or died earlier, because i don't know, the evidence only suggests possible coverup, it does not prove what the coverup is or if there really is one, it is just the way they went about things and continue to do so that raises suspicions. that does not prove they kill him or did not kill him, and i have no way of knowing for sure.

earlier reports of his death whilst interesting do not mean that he was dead, it could of easily of been speculation or rumor which people picked up on or a delibrate rumour started by those who were protecting bin laden, in the hope the U.S. would stop looking. again i think the reports of his earlier death need addressing but it does not prove or disprove he was actually dead or not. so do i think bin laden was killed in 2001/2002? i am not sure, do i think he was killed in the raid? again i don't know.

all i know is the way it was conducted and carried out raises suspicions and the earlier reports of his deaths are interesting. i do not know what actually happened or think there is enough proof from either side, hence the neutral position.

Originally posted by Blaine91555

Originally posted by LexMustReturn
reply to post by SkepticOverlord

 

The results are saddening. Even Al Qaeda has admitted that OBL was killed then. These results just tell me that there are too many that would rather spin a topic as 'CONSPRACY" rathjer than accept the truth.

Blaine's words in quotes;

"Not to mention his Wife who was there and shot also.

...and the Pakistani people and government who think he was shot that day."

We have been told that she was shot...for attacking the troops, that's about all. And there are quite a few Pakistanis who think that OBL was already dead, is your TV very singular in what it shows you?

"Interesting however. I doubt you would get even close to those percentages with a true random polling of the general population. In this case having a large contingent of American Hater's, Terrorist and Sharia apologists and supporters, some would give the answers they think hurts Americans the worst."

That's presumptive.

"The real conspiracy here is that Osama was able to hide out in that compound for that many years in plain sight of the military and government of Pakistan. That is where the evidence leads and there is no evidence that Osama was dead prior to this. Ignoring real evidence and facts is "Denying Ignorance"

"

I direct you to Obama's initial TV report on OBL's latest 'death' he said he had full co-operation from the Pakistani authorities, (without being specific) That doesn't gell well with the current thinking does it? Obviously Hilary then knows sod all about what was going on previously. As to evidence of his first 'death' there are many key figures in the US government and intelligence, and key figures in other relevant governments who have stated that OBL died in or around late 2001. So if you believe in his current death, you had a body, and now you don't...like the cartoons,that's all folks.

Originally posted by Wide-Eyes
reply to post by Skywatcher2011

 

Try posting the poll on JREF, the results would probably be hilariously different.

edit on 12-5-2011 by Wide-Eyes because: (no reason given)

Oh Noes, not those clowns

Ok well since so many people are complaining how biased this poll is could they suggest a web site that is unbiased? Completely neutral?

Well good luck with that, you are living in an imperfect society in an imperfect world. I think saying the majority of this site is biased is a bit over the top. I would say honestly that at least half or more are healthy skeptics and critical thinkers. It is this critical thinking that has not bought in to this bogus sham story. I have never seen so many people agree on one thing, that being not believing the official story. And everyone I talk to at work or in a social scene have the same consensus that we are being lied to. So you have to ask, why have we not been given proof or anything tangible from the Obama administration as a show of goof faith?

Really why?

No Body
Just Hearsay about witnesses
Situation room photo was BS
Obama changing the story several times
press conflicting reports
No DNA or facial recognition
on and on and on...

NADA! Just propaganda, more psy-ops

Originally posted by PhotonEffect
Yeah sure these polls are fun, but the results are heavily skewed (and some what misleading) considering that most people who visit here already believe in conspiracy theories and don't ever buy the official story.

and you do not think it would be skewed if we asked the general public who do not seek further information on sites like ATS who only ever get one side of the story?

how would that make the poll anymore realistic? so 80% believe the offical version, how many of them were in full knowledge of all the facts and claims?

but we must simply disregard any polls conducted by those who try to learn and research all aspects of the story and not just look at one side of it?

Wow

This survey reinforces my opinion that ATS has some really great free thinkers who know this current administration is not very good at fibbing. They could take lessons from Dubya and Cheney in that regard. Will anything ever come of this? Probably not. MSM is lockstepping with BigGov and is in denial of the obvious.

Skeptic Overlord's new avatar is great! One handsome dude...NOT!

reply to post by Rhino5

I had the same problem with question 2 and the way it was written, as well. The current survey about Obama is similar.

Very good.
Results are pretty much as I expected.
Thanks for posting them!