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Is Science a Religion?

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posted on May, 11 2011 @ 05:09 PM
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I have been thinking about this question for some time and I been leaning towards yes. I recently posted on another thread about stating that it was a religion and somebody was like Nooooo... and I need to know why not?

What has lead me to my conclusion was faith.... now hear me out.... let's use aTs for example.... many people just take the "expert's" or scientist's word (faith) for what is true or not true... same as people taking the words of their religious leaders as truth.... don't get me wrong I love science and I truly believe in the logical way of thinking... and science is a very good interpretation of our modern world... BUT science isn't always 100% accurate and new discoveries are always contradicting older knowledge....

Here are some similarities


Religion has holy men that interpret the spiritual word to the public....
Science has scientist that interpret data to the public.... both have mediators

Religion say's we are the results of a god(s)...
Science says we are the result of a big bang... how may people have actually done the math?

Religion has been used by governments to mold our paradigm....
Science has been used by the government to mold our paradigm... both are used to control the masses

Religion takes donations to support itself...
Science takes grants to support itself... both ask for money

Religion has rituals to interpret and receive one's spirituality....
Science has a ritual to interpret and receive data (scientific method)....

Religion has places to search for the truth.... nobody are allowed in the holy of holies
Science has laboratories to search for the truth... nobody can just walk into a lab either

Religion's fight with each other....
Science fights religion..... bickering constantly

Religion evolves with society....
Science evolves with society.... often contradicting itself

Religion is considered true....
Science is also considered to be truth.... Both can be right and both can be wrong



I could go on and on.... I wanted to keep the comparison on a general level because I think the details of science serves the same purposes as the details of religion.... I think that both points of view are correct and there are many false beliefs in both... I think we should have a mixed point of view.....

How many people have actually done the science them self?.... i've done a few experiments in school but the deep stuff... i'm going to just take the professor's word... whatever the guy in the lab coat prints out on paper.... science is explained and backed up by mathematical formula's while religion is backed by spirituality.... all i'm saying is we only know what we are told whether it is from your religious leader or the lab coats.... how do you really know what is truth? How can one deny the other?

So is Science a Religion?....




posted on May, 11 2011 @ 05:10 PM
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Yup ... Scientology!!!

The one that Tom Cruise etc. follow!



posted on May, 11 2011 @ 05:11 PM
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It can be, if you believe we are all in a supercomputer simulation. Or, think about Scientology, although, you would have to lump yourself in Tom Cruise.



posted on May, 11 2011 @ 05:16 PM
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o god don't compare me to that hahaha... and it was created by a sci-fi author so i know it's out there.... how and why would you follow a sci-fi writer... haha.... i don't get it either...



posted on May, 11 2011 @ 05:29 PM
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Originally posted by 11azerus11
o god don't compare me to that hahaha... and it was created by a sci-fi author so i know it's out there.... how and why would you follow a sci-fi writer... haha.... i don't get it either...


If you have any interest about the simulation argument, check out this site It's all pretty interesting stuff.

The thing for me is the double slit experiment though that would seem to show that simply by observing something, it changes the outcome. It's kind of like playing Call of Duty on an Xbox 360, all sorts of stuff going on, on the screen but absolutely nothing happening in fields you can not see, only when you move your controller to view a different area do the polygons form and show you "reality". Heh, pretty good one to stew the old noggin over.



edit on 11-5-2011 by Helious because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 11 2011 @ 05:29 PM
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Short answer yes. Orthodox Science is as bigoted and closed minded as religion and the faith of orthodox science in their unbreakable truths is almost fanatical. This being said The path of logos is not only traveled by close minded bigots there are some pathfinders in there which are not afraid to look into the void.



posted on May, 11 2011 @ 05:34 PM
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reply to post by 11azerus11
 


Not this crap again...no offense to you, but I've seen the whole 'clergy vs lab coats' thing so many times that I get this reflex to just push a thread down the stairs when I see it mentioned.


Originally posted by 11azerus11
I have been thinking about this question for some time and I been leaning towards yes. I recently posted on another thread about stating that it was a religion and somebody was like Nooooo... and I need to know why not?


Because there is testing in science.



and science is a very good interpretation of our modern world... BUT science isn't always 100% accurate and new discoveries are always contradicting older knowledge....


Yes, but science is self-correcting. And it's not always contradicting older knowledge.



Here are some similarities


Religion has holy men that interpret the spiritual word to the public....
Science has scientist that interpret data to the public.... both have mediators


And scientists publish their interpretations to the public for critique. Oh, and anyone who has the ability is allowed to become a scientist and you don't have to be in the establishment of science to have access to the data and interpret. Lay people are allowed to publish so long as they meet publishing standards.



Religion say's we are the results of a god(s)...
Science says we are the result of a big bang... how may people have actually done the math?


Well, the math is pretty damn hard when you get down to the nuts and bolts, but you don't actually have to do the advanced mathematics because there are incidental proofs. This isn't faith, this is reasonable trust based on evidence. If these people were doing the math wrong then someone would call them out and make a huge career out of being the scientist who killed the big bang.



Religion has been used by governments to mold our paradigm....
Science has been used by the government to mold our paradigm... both are used to control the masses


Except...no. How is science used to control the masses?



Religion takes donations to support itself...
Science takes grants to support itself... both ask for money


Science is incredibly open and specific about grant money. It also provides results. Seriously, try writing a grant proposal, it's hard as hell.



Religion has rituals to interpret and receive one's spirituality....
Science has a ritual to interpret and receive data (scientific method)....


It's not a ritual. The scientific method is something that was determined via trial and error as a system that actually works. Any method that would be better is welcome so long as that method can be shown to be superior.



Religion has places to search for the truth.... nobody are allowed in the holy of holies
Science has laboratories to search for the truth... nobody can just walk into a lab either


But that's more of a property rights issue. I can't just walk into an auto plant either, it doesn't make the car industry a religion. They also have various protocols depending on what's going on in the lab. My father used to be involved in labs for a multinational corporation (none of his research depended on grant money btw), and some of the labs were clean rooms. They were as dust free as possible...and that wasn't because of some ritual purity, that was merely to keep the experiments running as cleanly as possible.



Religion's fight with each other....
Science fights religion..... bickering constantly


Except that its typically that religion attacks science and then science merely defends itself.



Religion evolves with society....
Science evolves with society.... often contradicting itself


No, science evolves with evidence. Society just happens to move along...but the two don't always move along at the same pace.



Religion is considered true....
Science is also considered to be truth.... Both can be right and both can be wrong


Please, demonstrate how science can be wrong.



I could go on and on.... I wanted to keep the comparison on a general level because I think the details of science serves the same purposes as the details of religion.... I think that both points of view are correct and there are many false beliefs in both... I think we should have a mixed point of view.....


No, we shouldn't. Why? Well, because science has produced results, while religion hasn't. Tell me, how did you get your computer? Was it from the products of religion or science?



How many people have actually done the science them self?


Millions. They're called scientists.



.... i've done a few experiments in school but the deep stuff... i'm going to just take the professor's word... whatever the guy in the lab coat prints out on paper....


You know, most of the scientists I know and/or encounter don't wear lab coats...and you don't actually have to do the experiments, you can review the published data. I actually try to do a bit of that. I'm not qualified to review all of it and reading a paper on genetic analysis is boring as hell and requires a lot of pauses to figure out what is being said and then teach myself the basics of the science behind it...and there's absolutely nothing stopping you from that.



science is explained and backed up by mathematical formula's while religion is backed by spirituality....


And mathematics is demonstrable.



all i'm saying is we only know what we are told whether it is from your religious leader or the lab coats.... how do you really know what is truth? How can one deny the other?


Because I can investigate science thoroughly (and I have), while investigations into religion are met with brick walls and demands for faith.



So is Science a Religion?....


No.



posted on May, 11 2011 @ 05:44 PM
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Ok at first I thought this was some sort of joke thread... but since it isnt, I'll answer as short and straight foward as I can...

(from the dictionary)

Religion:

1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

Science:

1.a branch of knowledge or study dealing with a body of facts or truths systematically arranged and showing the operation of general laws: the mathematical sciences.

Keywords - beliefs / facts and truths

Answer: No.



posted on May, 11 2011 @ 05:48 PM
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Science is not a religion. Yet. It's getting to the point where greater and greater leaps of faith are required by scientists to make suppositions and theories. Any scientist offended by this notion really needs to look at the big picture.

All of the things people claim that sets science apart from religion are simply tenets of the faith; scientific method, self correction, etc.

Take Neil Tyson, for example. The man is a brilliant astrophysicist yet, in his "Cosmic Perspective" essay, he practically describes a religion. There is a very spiritual side to science, especially when you get beyond Newtonian grade-school stuff.



posted on May, 11 2011 @ 05:49 PM
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Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
reply to post by 11azerus11
 

Not this crap again...no offense to you, but I've seen the whole 'clergy vs lab coats' thing so many times that I get this reflex to just push a thread down the stairs when I see it mentioned.

So is Science a Religion?....
No.


Thank you,
I got done reading the OP and I said to myself,
"I hope someone has already gotten to this one, or my head is going to explode"



posted on May, 11 2011 @ 06:04 PM
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reply to post by madnessinmysoul
 


haha... not this crap again... this is for my own thoughts ... I agree with you on most of that but science could have just been the next logical step in an evolved way of thinking....



Except...no. How is science used to control the masses?


There are many types of technology used to control our way of thinking... just as religion is.... technology is the result of our science
...




Science is incredibly open and specific about grant money. It also provides results. Seriously, try writing a grant proposal, it's hard as hell.


Just formalities and paper work... Religion can provide results too... weren't relics contracted out for monetary gain... Religion can also provide results in other ways such as helping out with the community to running a nation to running a company...



It's not a ritual. The scientific method is something that was determined via trial and error as a system that actually works. Any method that would be better is welcome so long as that method can be shown to be superior.



I'm not trying to take anything away from the scientific method I am aware that it works....



Except that its typically that religion attacks science and then science merely defends itself.



Seriously?


Please, demonstrate how science can be wrong.


carbon dating



Millions. They're called scientists.


Yes I know, but the majority of the people have not and they have no clue what is going on... they are just following on blind faith



And mathematics is demonstrable.



Religion also have their own miracles that are just as apparent as 1+1=2 and science can't explain



Because I can investigate science thoroughly (and I have), while investigations into religion are met with brick walls and demands for faith.


ok then what if relgious writings just need a scientific approach to the interpretations of the spiritual word... what if spirituality was waiting for science to come along to develop to take the next step in the evolution of our thought process?

I still think that it can be... I think that science is the next step as you will....



posted on May, 11 2011 @ 06:19 PM
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reply to post by 11azerus11
 





Just formalities and paper work... Religion can provide results too... weren't relics contracted out for monetary gain... Religion can also provide results in other ways such as helping out with the community to running a nation to running a company...


These things can be accomplished without religion.



carbon dating


The method is inaccurate but not necessarily wrong. But because science is open a better method can be found.



Yes I know, but the majority of the people have not and they have no clue what is going on... they are just following on blind faith


But the difference is they don't have to. If they take the time and energy to do the research themselves using the scientific method they can test the theories themselves. Religion is closed and you have no other choice but blind faith. Only heretics question the gospel. Science allows you to question and challenge it. Religion punishes you for questioning it.



Religion also have their own miracles that are just as apparent as 1+1=2 and science can't explain


This is one most followers of faith like to throw at atheist - the old "well if science can't explain it then it's evidence of a divine being or miracle." Ummm... NO it is not. Just because science doesn't CURRENTLY understand it or have the answers does NOT preclude science from eventually understanding it.

So NO science is not a religion. It is merely a method for understand and explaining things through logic and reason. It's open and evolves as more facts and knowledge presents itself. Religion is rigid and closed. You follow it blindly without question or be labeled a heretic.



posted on May, 11 2011 @ 06:39 PM
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reply to post by Terrormaster
 





Religion is rigid and closed. You follow it blindly without question or be labeled a heretic.


Yes religions are closed minded to all the competition... what about spirituality and self development... Science is starting to merge with some of the fundamental truths of religions... i still think science and religion are related... religion had to come first then science to bring the athiest to tear apart all the bells and whistles of religions and then only in the end to realize that there is spiritual side to things...



posted on May, 11 2011 @ 06:39 PM
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Originally posted by Terrormaster
You follow it blindly without question or be labeled a heretic.


Or you can embrace the label.


Science is not a religion.

Science is knowledge.
Religion is belief.

A dog has a head.
A man has a head.

A dog has two eyes
A man has two eyes.

A dog thinks and reasons.
A man thinks and reasons.

A dog sleeps, eats, evacuates and thrives on affection.
A man sleeps, eats, evacuates and thrives on affection.

A dog is curious and cautious.
Man is curious and cautious.

But a dog, is NOT a man.

edit on 5/11/2011 by Benevolent Heretic because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 11 2011 @ 06:48 PM
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reply to post by Helious
 


yeah but the one problem I have with the computer simulation theory... is that if this was really a matrix then there wouldn't be extinction level event.... if it was a matrix why get hit by a rock?



posted on May, 11 2011 @ 06:57 PM
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reply to post by 11azerus11
 


Science itself is not a religion, but those who regard science as the only valid method of knowing reality are doing so on faith, not science. There is no scientific basis for the claim that reality can only be verified by the scientific method as it stands today.



posted on May, 11 2011 @ 09:58 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by Terrormaster
You follow it blindly without question or be labeled a heretic.


Or you can embrace the label.


Science is not a religion.

Science is knowledge.
Religion is belief.

A dog has a head.
A man has a head.

A dog has two eyes
A man has two eyes.

A dog thinks and reasons.
A man thinks and reasons.

A dog sleeps, eats, evacuates and thrives on affection.
A man sleeps, eats, evacuates and thrives on affection.

A dog is curious and cautious.
Man is curious and cautious.

But a dog, is NOT a man.

edit on 5/11/2011 by Benevolent Heretic because: (no reason given)


A dog... reasons?

I am... seriously ... listen I have no words for that... what exactly do you mean by "a dog reasons"?

We both agree that a dog is not a man tho... dont take me wrong, your conlusion is right, the process that took you there is just... weird.



posted on May, 11 2011 @ 10:26 PM
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Dogs absolutely reason, to some degree..

Omg, I... Can
't belie....

Give me a break



posted on May, 12 2011 @ 04:29 AM
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reply to post by 11azerus11
 



Originally posted by 11azerus11


Except...no. How is science used to control the masses?


There are many types of technology used to control our way of thinking... just as religion is.... technology is the result of our science


Which ones? Now, if you're going to say mass media...mass media cannot be used as a form of direct control unless the subject is willing. Aside from the simple fact that not all mass media outlets are putting out the same line, there are just a diversity of view points in general all them. Hell, they give equal time for whackjobs.





Science is incredibly open and specific about grant money. It also provides results. Seriously, try writing a grant proposal, it's hard as hell.


Just formalities and paper work... Religion can provide results too... weren't relics contracted out for monetary gain... Religion can also provide results in other ways such as helping out with the community to running a nation to running a company...


Except that those aren't results specific to religion. Science provides specific results. It helps us actually understand the world around us, helps us live more comfortable, long lives. Science actually makes progress in the world that is specific to science. And those formalities and paper work are there to let the person or organization giving the money out know exactly what it is being used for, sometimes down to the experimental set up.





It's not a ritual. The scientific method is something that was determined via trial and error as a system that actually works. Any method that would be better is welcome so long as that method can be shown to be superior.



I'm not trying to take anything away from the scientific method I am aware that it works....


Okay, but it is far from a ritual. Hell, the scientific method is employed slightly differently between the branches of science. Sure, the basics are the same, but studying chemical compounds with the scientific method is a bit different than studying ape learning patterns.





Except that its typically that religion attacks science and then science merely defends itself.


Seriously?


Yes, seriously. I'm sorry, but when has science attacked religion? When science decided to find out something that the religion happened to believe was untrue? That's not an attack, that's someone doing their job.





Please, demonstrate how science can be wrong.


carbon dating


You mean that dating method that we can be accurate to within a few years of events? That dating method we can test against tree ring dating and get incredible result? I'm sorry, but where's your evidence that carbon dating is wrong?





Millions. They're called scientists.


Yes I know, but the majority of the people have not and they have no clue what is going on... they are just following on blind faith


And that's why people like Carl Sagan and Michio Kaku have tried to educate people on scientific things. The public is ignorant of their own choice, and scientists would prefer if it were otherwise. I mean, seriously, wouldn't you want people to understand what you're doing and why it's important to the world?





And mathematics is demonstrable.


Religion also have their own miracles that are just as apparent as 1+1=2 and science can't explain


Name one.





Because I can investigate science thoroughly (and I have), while investigations into religion are met with brick walls and demands for faith.


ok then what if relgious writings just need a scientific approach to the interpretations of the spiritual word... what if spirituality was waiting for science to come along to develop to take the next step in the evolution of our thought process?


Then all of that emphasis on faith in the first place was...well...stupid. Hell, Jesus must have been lying if religion was just trying to find a way to scientifically approach religious writings when he was talking about moving mountains with faith.

And we do actually have a scientific approach to most religious texts, it's academic study of those texts. You can learn a lot by reading academic works on the Bible and Qu'ran.



posted on May, 12 2011 @ 07:24 AM
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Originally posted by FraternitasSaturni
I am... seriously ... listen I have no words for that... what exactly do you mean by "a dog reasons"?




To reason (verb): to discover, formulate, or conclude by the use of reason.
Reason (noun): the power of comprehending, inferring, or thinking especially in orderly rational ways


m/w

I'm a dog trainer.



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