I Have A Question About Hell

Originally posted by lestweforget
reply to post by mkkkay

 

Ahh sorry fool but yes they do, ever hear of Islam or Judaism?

Sorry! my bad, i should of said the bible.. and not christians, wich is a branch from the bible.
So you are right and i was a fool...

There i edited my original post to say the bible and not christians.

reply to post by lecaro


Proof please do you have a link?

reply to post by wiser3

Hell is a lie, made up by men, to keep control of men! If you are good you go heaven! If you are bad you go to hell!

Actually, Hell sounds a lot better that Heaven, and cooler too. check these links:

Heaven is Hotter Than Hell

Heaven is hotter than hell!

reply to post by mkkkay


Ok no worries mate i shouldnt have called you anything , im sorry!
We all make mistakes.

Originally posted by lecaro
When you die your senses stop.. So, if your in a so called "hell"... you cannot feel anything!

That what you think and hope ! What if you are wrong.Nobody can say that they will not be put in hell.What you think you did that is good may not be good in the laws of the universe and the systems automatically puts you in hell.Unless you understand how the universe systems work you cannot say that what you did is good.
As we have said in another thread,there are two(2) dimensions of hell - Fire and Frozen hell.
You do not really want to find out that you are wrong!

reply to post by R3N3G4D3


Bible kill count:-

I believe the word used in Hebrew scripture(OT) is "sheol" and has been warped by Christianity into a different concept. It's been awhile since I studied it, but I'm sure others can expound on this further.

These threads about Heaven and Hell always leave me shaking my head. Good and Evil are our words for order and chaos. Look to the ancient symbol of the Yin - Yang for a good picture of these two forces influence in our existence here. They are complete opposites of each other, but chaos must destroy order for order to create anew. Hence it is a different thought process entirely. To those who champion order the destruction and seemingly random nature of chaos is something to be abhorred, it is against everything they feel and believe. However, to one who dwells in chaos, these are accepted norms and it is in fact order that is viewed as horrible. That is why the Yin - Yang has a curved line and not a straight one; the level of order and chaos fluctuates in our existence. The dots represent the intimate connection between the two. Order existed first, then chaos created change and we have what you see today.
The devil plays his role and loves/hates it. He loves and hates those who spread discord just as he loves/hates those who follow God (order). He is the herald of chaos and was made that as punishment for his treachery.

Why does the devil torture wicked and good men alike? Here is why.

The devil HATES God with every fiber of his being. God does not want a single soul to go to Hell, not one, and this has been stated in the holy texts. So the devil knows this and takes every oppurtunity it can to lead those souls away from God and tortures them as your enemy would torture ones you love to make you hurt.

The devil is for itself, it needs no followers other than pawns to be manipulated and discarded, and thrives on destruction. In simple terms, anything the devil can do in which it thinks it is hurting God, it will. You belong to God, your soul is literally his/hers as it is a part of God; a small shaving of God if you would.

So in synopsis, Yes both Heaven and Hell exist, there are diferent levels of Heaven as there are Hell, all very different from the other, and yes the greatest torture and punsihment is to end up in Hell disconnected from God. I think there is a reason why the majority near death experiences from people today land them in Hell, and boy oh boy are they different when they come back.

But you believe what you want, thats the choice God gave man.

Here are few point:

1) If hell is the eternal separation from god then what difference would it make to someone who doesn’t care to know him.

2) Considering the source, and the intelligence to question authority, who says god is right?

3) As a known fact that many aspects of the Abrahamic faiths were cannibalized from pagan religions it seems obvious that the punishment of “Seperation from god” is a fear mongering way of saying other after life possibilities exist, none of which relate to pain or suffering.

As I'm sure has already been commented according to the bible 'sheol' actually means the grave, not hellfire or torment, the only characters indicated to be thrown into the firey lake of gehenna (spelling?) are Satan aka Lucifier and his fellow rebellious angels who decided they thought God was a crappy boss and wanted to do things their way.

Hell and hellfire torment of humans are not indicated in the bible but are dogma of the churchs to enforce fear in their congregations. According the bible those who rebel against God end up in Sheol.....aka eternal death, cutting off from God, meaning they aren't to enter the kingdom of heaven or afterlife in the presence of God. It in no way indicates eternal torture by little red devil's with tridents to point ya.

Now on the subject of Lucifier, he was in fact an angel, he didn't agree with some of God's laws, so according the bible he's the original thinker or rebellious child per say. He was not alone however in his disagreement with how God was running the show, in the bible there is also the story of a large number of angels who wanted to 'get funky' with the daughters of man, figuring they were missing out on something real good. So they created physical bodies for themselves, came to earth, did their thing and created the Nephlim, their hybrid offspring.

When Lucifier declared open rebellion according to the bible, 1/3 of the angels of heaven took his side, which according to biblical mryrids of angels was in the millions. I don't know about you but sounds like the dental plan in heaven wasn't that great.

So here we are now, Lucifier basically called God out....said hey you suck as a boss, I dare you to let me have a reign at it.....there is God, already realizing crap if I just smite his ass and all his followers, I don't look very good to the remaining 2/3's of angels, what if they start doubting my ability?

So God agreed to let Lucifier make the world into his own image, corruption, evil, yada yada. And he agreed to back off and allow all the humans to suffer just to save face until an appointed time when the experiment was over. Try reconciling that with "God loved the world so much he gave his only begotten Son, Jesus Christ".....

So who is really evil here? It's kind of hard to tell if you ask me, the God of the Bible killed many, loved the smell of burning flesh, had major disent in the ranks and somehow Lucifier is the 'bad' guy. If you take the Bible literally (which I don't) humanity has been basically thrown to the wolves just to prove a point, just to save face and not look like a totally incompetent God, yet God is love?

How loving is it to let billions upon billions over the course of thousands of years suffer hell on earth just to save face? Christians should really read their holy book thoroughly. And who created Lucifier and all those angels that rebelled? Oh yeah that would be God. Wouldn't that indicate in and of itself God contains both love and hate, good and bad?

So hell isn't some afterlife torment of fire and pain.....it's the cost of being pawns in a much larger game of chess, here and now.

Originally posted by Suspiria


My question would be... Why would the devil torment those who did his bidding in life. Surely he'd be handing out the medals & sending them back to get more folks on his side.

edit on 11-5-2011 by Suspiria because: (no reason given)

I've always wondered that myself. I grew up Christian and still consider myself to be one. But yeah... why would he torture people who did his works?
I understand the separated from God for eternity thing. But Tortured and tormented in hell forever? I'm not sure about that one.

After the prospective Christian has been lured in by hope, they are
driven further in by fear.

I can also tell you that it's the other way around; Fear is usually what would spark something such as a drastic move to want to change one's life. Hope follows after, but it also has to do a lot with wanting a Personal Savior. Tell me, how many "religions" today offer a Personal Savior? I only know of two - Judaism and Christianity, both believe in the same God.

In fact, your entire post can be written off as just a product of personal incredulity.


Why do you need a "personal savior"? Are you not capable of taking care of yourself?
What is he saving you from? Hell? Didn't your god create hell? If he wanted to save you from hell, then why not get rid of it?

Regarding the OP, if you are serious about wanting to know what Hell is, and if you're asking about the Biblical Hell, it's a compartment of Hades. Hades has 3 compartments- Abraham's Bosom (also referred to as "paradise" in the OT), Abbadon/ the pit/ Hell, and the Abyss. Hades is a temporary abode. When Christ died and before He was resurrected, He went to Abraham's Bosom and retrieved the Saints who until Christ's death were unfit to be with God (it is only through Christ that anyone- past, present or future, is cleansed and fit to stand before God). He then escorted them to Heaven. So AB is now empty. Abbadon/ the pit/ Hell is where the unsaved go upon death, but it too is a temporary place. At the Great White Throne judgment, those in Hell will be judged and will then go to Gehenna/ the Lake of Fire. The Abyss is a temporary abode for fallen angels, they will eventually be judged and will go to Tartarus. As for what Hell is, it's a place of eternal torment. What exactly the nature of that torment is we don't know, some believe that it's merely separation from God while others believe it's physical torture of some type. About all we have to go on in the Bible though is the story of Lazarus and the rich man where the rich man in Hell tells Abraham "Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame." This is where most people get the notion that Hell is firey. The common thought that Satan is a red guy with a tail and a pitchfork he constantly prods people with has no scriptural basis at all. In fact it's quite clear that while the unsaved go to Hell upon death, Satan is not in Hell at all. He roams freely between Heaven and Earth for now. He will stand against Christ at Armageddon and will fail, then he will be bound and cast into the pit for a thousand years. At the end of the thousand years he will be released, will mount another war, will lose and will be cast into Gehenna. It is clear that Satan will be tormented forever and ever, but it is not clear that this is the fate of the unsaved. It probably is not, it sounds more like after the judgment they will die for good, their souls will not live on.

Originally posted by autowrench
And the God did many other atrocities too, such as the following:
He killed a man who refused to impregnate his widowed sister-in-law (Gen.38:9-10)

For every site like the one you link to, there is another site that debunks every single claim. Sometimes all you have to do is read the passage yourself and you'll see the errors in the claims. I'll just give you a couple of examples because it would take all day to explain every one of them. Regarding the above passage, this is in reference to Levirate-marriage which is a concept foreign to western cultures, but it was an important principal of the era and was also part of the Mosaic Law. The custom was in place to ensure the family bloodline continued on which was (and is) extremely important to the Jews. Onan was directed by God Himself to fulfill the law and he not only refused, but tried to hide the fact that he was disobedient. He was killed for his disobedience.

Originally posted by autowrench
He excused a murderer and promised his protection (Gen. 4:8-15)

If you read the passage it's quite evident that God did not excuse him, in fact the "protection" was not protection at all, it was his punishment. To be a fugitive in his time was a fate worse than death, and God marked him so that he would not be killed and would therefore have to live out his entire life as a fugitive. And in those days people lived hundreds of years, so it was a long-lasting punishment.

Originally posted by autowrench
He required a woman to marry her rapist (Deut. 22:28:29)

The original Hebrew word used in this passage is not rape although some English translations have incorrectly described it as such (but not the King James version which is widely regarded as the most accurate English translation). Rather, it is referring to voluntary sex. In those times the tradition was for the groom to pay the bride's father a "bride price" for a virgin bride. The above passage is highlighting the fact that because the two parties were found to have had sex out of marriage, the father was essentially denied the "bride price" and the law required the male participant to marry the woman and pay her father the appropriate price.

Every other passage listed there also has a reasonable explanation, but I don't have time to explain them all. For those out there that are seeking the truth, please research both sides of the argument with an open mind.

I see a lot of discussion here about "hope" (a dream of going to Heaven) and fear (of damnation and Hell) and how those are what drive people to salvation. This is incorrect. There may be some people who seek the Lord out of fear, but most seek the Lord because they've hit the bottom of THIS life. People find themselves at the bottom of a deep, dark hole and they scream out to the Lord and He reaches down, grabs them and pulls them out. THAT is how most people come to salvation. They then spend their life in GRATITUDE for what He has already done, not in fear or hope of what He might do.

Originally posted by amaster
Why do you need a "personal savior"?

Because I was dead in sin and couldn't save myself.

Originally posted by amaster
Are you not capable of taking care of yourself?

No, neither are you. You will discover that some day.

Originally posted by amaster
What is he saving you from?

Myself.

Originally posted by amaster
Hell?

No, we were never intended to go there to begin with.

Originally posted by amaster
Didn't your god create hell?

Yes, as a place of damnation for fallen angels.

Originally posted by amaster
If he wanted to save you from hell, then why not get rid of it?

Let me ask you, would you propose getting rid of all prisons and letting the criminals roam free so that no one would have to suffer in prison? You may have a good friend or loved one who murders someone and it may pain you to see them go to jail, but you would still agree that jail is what they deserved, would you not?

reply to post by SavedOne



I can appreciate and respect your personal beliefe in regards to your own need for salvation, but please, don't you dare say that I am not capable of taking care of myself in this life or any life that comes after. I don't need the false prospects of heaven or hell or the empty promises of an imaginary god to live my life to it's absolute fullest. What happens when I'm dead is yet to be seen, but I can rest easy knowing that it won't be an eternity in either heaven or hell.

Ok, I dunno what you really think about hell, but personaly I don't think it exists but if it did I beleive it wouldn't be to disimular from heaven. Just different sides of the same street. It would all depend on your own beliefs. If you think of it heaven and hell both have their own armies the only difference that I can see is the Satan actualy makes himself know. Compared to God who completely ignors his people. In mythology ofcourse. You've got to take in consideration that the mainstream idea of hell and heaven are fabrications. The vatican vilainized all other religions in the past and some of those lies still indure. Such as wikas, the muslim faith, Budism. And some of the "other" religions were portrayed as being spawned by Lucifier, Satan...and the one that I like the most because it embodies the true nature of the Vatican...disinfo and propagation of hate towards non-beleivers...The Antichrist.

Hell ....imagene the blackest black where you cannot see anyone or anything...now imagene existing there for eternity.......

Also...imagene 2 very large doors....angels on each side of them...the doors are opened and there is a sea of people who's bodies are frozen from the head down......this is the inbetween place.....a lot of suicides go there.....

reply to post by caladonea


The first of what you describe is not Hell, it is the void or 'Abyss' which exists between all realms, and is home to some not so nice local "Fauna." The second you describe is the lowest plain of hell by the account in Dante's "Divine Comedy," where the greatest sinners against God are with the devil, frozen as no light from God reaches them.

There is much we cannot elaborate on simply because we have not been there, and I dare not imagine it.

reply to post by R3N3G4D3


oh, and here I was thinking we were already in hell, silly me =)

Wru, rapture?