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California DoT Nixes Public Display of American Flag, Calls it “Impermissible Public Expression”

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posted on May, 11 2011 @ 02:20 AM
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is anyone gonna actually read the link?? come on...



The concern that we have in this situation is that, whether a flag hanging on a bridge [not OTORA’s proposal], or a monument placed within a park and ride lot [the proposal], we would be placed in a position of having to permit all forms of expression as encroachments in the right of way if we were to allow yours. As such, the department has determined that the state highway system is not a forum for public expression except as expressly allowed.


the department has determined that the state highway system is not a forum for public expression

So they don't want to allow people putting up all sorts of things on the state highway system...




posted on May, 11 2011 @ 09:00 AM
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This is absolutely ludicrous. This is a proposed memorial for fallen soldiers OF THE UNITED STATES, IN THE UNITED STATES...I just don't get how they can justify their actions by saying that "As such, the department has determined that the state highway system is not a forum for public expression except as expressly allowed."

OK, so why can't they "expressly allow" for the flying of our flag at this memorial? Insanity....




Link for quote and pic



posted on May, 11 2011 @ 09:04 AM
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Originally posted by Thermo Klein

So they don't want to allow people putting up all sorts of things on the state highway system...


You beat me to it - I'm glad I wasn't the only person who actually read the link.

Is there any place where this sort of practice is actually LEGAL (the hanging of signs or flags or ANYTHING on or near state highway signs or other items)?

Sure it may often be overlooked, but really - I'm pretty sure it's not technically legal.



posted on May, 11 2011 @ 09:14 AM
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Originally posted by mishigas


The panel that ruled that the American flag could not be displayed demanded "viewpoint neutrality" at the monument.




Sounds to me like "viewpoint neutrality" is a nice way of saying "if we can get sued for showing it, we won't show it"
edit on 11-5-2011 by wishywashy because: Just wanted to rephrase my point so as not to sound too preachy.



posted on May, 11 2011 @ 10:07 AM
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As a patriot that fought for that flag to be erected find this INCREDIBLY OFFENSIVE!
How can we be told that flying the U.S. flag is inappropriate during a funeral of a service member. I agree with one of the ATSers that commented earlier.. get on the phone, make some calls, start a riot.. this right here shows that our country is rotting inside out.



posted on May, 11 2011 @ 10:09 AM
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Originally posted by 31Bravo
How can we be told that flying the U.S. flag is inappropriate during a funeral of a service member.


But see - we're not being told this. We're being told that it's inappropriate to fly the flag from highway signs and overpasses.

sigh.



posted on May, 11 2011 @ 10:16 AM
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Originally posted by Watts

America is stupid. Literally.





Actually, we are pretty far along in the implementation of a plan to destroy this country. They have been fouling our nest with this fecal nonsense for so long that many youngsters don't know anything else.

These self-radicalized fascists will totally overrun any semblance of common sense before long.



posted on May, 11 2011 @ 10:33 AM
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reply to post by negativenihil
 



Originally posted by Thermo Klein

So they don't want to allow people putting up all sorts of things on the state highway system...




You beat me to it - I'm glad I wasn't the only person who actually read the link.

Is there any place where this sort of practice is actually LEGAL (the hanging of signs or flags or ANYTHING on or near state highway signs or other items)?

Sure it may often be overlooked, but really - I'm pretty sure it's not technically legal.


You both must be joking, or you didn't read the linked article. It was part of a monument in a Park and Ride parking lot, not some graffiti hanging off an overpass or painted on the roadside. And you object to that?
edit on 11-5-2011 by mishigas because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 11 2011 @ 10:33 AM
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O! say can you see by the dawn’s early light,
What so proudly we hailed at the twilight’s last gleaming,
Whose broad stripes and bright stars through the perilous fight,
O’er the ramparts we watched, were so gallantly streaming?
And the rockets’ red glare, the bombs bursting in air,
Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there;
O! say does that star-spangled banner yet wave,
O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave?

On the shore dimly seen through the mists of the deep,
Where the foe’s haughty host in dread silence reposes,
What is that which the breeze, o’er the towering steep,
As it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses?
Now it catches the gleam of the morning’s first beam,
In full glory reflected now shines in the stream:
’Tis the star-spangled banner, O! long may it wave
O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

And where is that band who so vauntingly swore
That the havoc of war and the battle’s confusion,
A home and a country, should leave us no more?
Their blood has washed out their foul footsteps’ pollution.
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight, or the gloom of the grave:
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave,
O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

O! thus be it ever, when freemen shall stand
Between their loved home and the war’s desolation.
Blest with vict’ry and peace, may the Heav’n rescued land
Praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation!
Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
And this be our motto: “In God is our trust;”
And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave![12]


What more can i say



posted on May, 11 2011 @ 10:36 AM
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... and people are shocked when I tell them that sometimes I wish this state would sink into the ocean along with all the people in it. Could this state get anymore more communist? Listen to the language they use, it's very scary. Reminds me of the early Soviet Union politico correct campaign.



posted on May, 11 2011 @ 10:43 AM
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reply to post by negativenihil
 



Originally posted by 31Bravo
How can we be told that flying the U.S. flag is inappropriate during a funeral of a service member.




But see - we're not being told this. We're being told that it's inappropriate to fly the flag from highway signs and overpasses.

sigh.


No, we're not being told that at all. Please read the article carefully.:shk:

Here in NH, there are many flags and signs welcoming our troops home, or wishing for the safe return of a loved son, brother, or whatever, on highway overpasses. NOBODY has ever complained, and people actually clean up after themselves. Maybe it has to do with our spirit and state logo, "Live Free or Die"!



posted on May, 11 2011 @ 10:43 AM
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Originally posted by negativenihil

Originally posted by Thermo Klein

So they don't want to allow people putting up all sorts of things on the state highway system...


You beat me to it - I'm glad I wasn't the only person who actually read the link.

Is there any place where this sort of practice is actually LEGAL (the hanging of signs or flags or ANYTHING on or near state highway signs or other items)?

Sure it may often be overlooked, but really - I'm pretty sure it's not technically legal.


Yes, only two people on this entire thread "actually read the link".
I'm sure you read the link and gleaned what you wanted to from it. This isn't about hanging a flag at an underpass or on a building. This is a monument, build by city code standards, off the highway at a park and ride. CalTrans is OK with the monument, but they're not OK with the flag because of what I posted earlier.

/TOA



posted on May, 11 2011 @ 10:47 AM
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Originally posted by Thermo Klein
is anyone gonna actually read the link?? come on...



The concern that we have in this situation is that, whether a flag hanging on a bridge [not OTORA’s proposal], or a monument placed within a park and ride lot [the proposal], we would be placed in a position of having to permit all forms of expression as encroachments in the right of way if we were to allow yours. As such, the department has determined that the state highway system is not a forum for public expression except as expressly allowed.


the department has determined that the state highway system is not a forum for public expression

So they don't want to allow people putting up all sorts of things on the state highway system...


Its the friggin AMERICAN FLAG, the flag thats flown at every battle weve ever fought, the flag that men have been wrapped up in on their way home to be buried.........The flag that countrymen and women looked to as a sign of hope......of sacrifice......and for strength......

NOT a cross, star of david, or nativity scene..........

Full STOP



posted on May, 11 2011 @ 10:53 AM
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I pledge allegiance to the flag

of the United States of America;

and to the republic, for which it stands;

one nation, under God,

indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.



Hey, California? Bite me.



posted on May, 11 2011 @ 10:59 AM
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Liberals elect liberals; thus, they should not feign surprise when those they elect and appoint make decisions based on their liberal "theology".

Socialism IS a theology that lives in denial of itself.



posted on May, 11 2011 @ 11:49 AM
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Originally posted by sigung86
reply to post by Liquesence
 



American Troops dying in wars for America. Not Brits, French, Germans, or any of our friends from South America, or Canada... But Americans. Why would anyone who find it wrong to support the symbol of freedom that men and women are dying for, everyday, supporting the right to fly that flag?

So what other flag do you want to fly there?

Just curious.




I never said i "wanted" other flags to be flown.

It's the principle involved in allowing other flags (or signs or banners) to be flown if someone should so desire.

Why do they not want the US flag to be flown? I dunno, read the article and subsequent posts, including this article. There is a lot more to it simply than "they won't let the American flag be flown." And goes back to allowing all or allowing none, and which is why they won't apparently allow it to be flown exclusively, which is why i mentioned the ten commandments, even if they situation and circumstances are different. Content/viewpoint regulation and neutrality.

It's the right to fly flags other than US flag and not exclusive TO the US flag, without barring others' right to display. Period.

~~

And does NOT address the issue of US troops being there in the first place, or their continued and current occupancy...



posted on May, 11 2011 @ 11:50 AM
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I hate to say it, but CA is exactly what is wrong with this country.

-Monsanto and winter farms taking GIGANTIC amounts of water from the CO river that does not allow people in several Rocky Mountain states to collect rain water.

-Affrimative Action-complete fail nationally

-Illegal immigration-complete fail

-Public Health Care-Complete fail

-Energy Reformation-Complete Fail.

CA, I just dont get it. Too many people more than willing to take the hand outs.

Every state has its issues, but it seems that CA has more than its fair share of complete nut job ideas that seem to be absolutely, UN-AMERICAN



posted on May, 11 2011 @ 11:55 AM
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Also, whats up with stuff that I buy that says..... .Known to the state of California to cause....... There a bunch of narcissistic jerks over there in power, the best thing they got going for them is that there leader was in "Twins" cause that movie rocked and Kelly Presten was hot.
edit on 11-5-2011 by Helious because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 11 2011 @ 11:56 AM
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Originally posted by The Old American
reply to post by Liquesence
 


Actually there is more to this. In 2003 people were hanging political signs and banners, as well as American flags on overpasses. CalTrans began removing the signs, but they left the flags. In Brown v. California Department of Transportation it was decided by the Kalifornia Supreme Court that what CalTrans was doing was in violation of the 1st Amendment:

Caltrans Policy on Flags Violates Freedom of Speech—Ninth Circuit



Thanks for digging that article up, it actually explains the situation very well, and the reasons for the DOTs actions, and adds a great deal to this discussion.

I might not agree with your own opinion regarding the issue and the 9th circuit's ruling, even though you have some valid points, but the article does better explain to me--and helps to reinforce (in my mind)--the DOT's decision, as well as support for my own post.

Thanks again. Star for you.



posted on May, 11 2011 @ 12:16 PM
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reply to post by Liquesence
 




It's the principle involved in allowing other flags (or signs or banners) to be flown if someone should so desire.


Yeah? So? Exactly which other groups have petitioned to fly their flag?




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