The Illuminati & Discordianism

reply to post by JoshNorton


Why would Discordians be interested in the ranks of masonry though? That's my question.

the mazons are a qabbalistik cult. if you somehow made it to the top thirty3-third level, you would find out they believe satatan 'created' the universe because he was jealous that god had heaven. so he went and 'created' this universe so he could be a 'god' here.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

That person claims a connection between the Satanic side of the Illuminati and masonry.

The Encyclopedia Britannica has little to say on the subject (1966 edition, Volume 11,
"Halicar to Impala," page 1094):

Illuminati, a short-lived movement of republican free thought founded on May Day
1776 by Adam Weishaupt, professor of canon law at Ingolstadt and a former Jesuit. . . .
From 1778 onward they began to make contact with various Masonic lodges where,
under the impulse of A. Knigge (q.v.) one of their chief converts, they often managed to
gain a commanding position. . . .

The scheme itself had its attractions for literary men like Goethe and Herder, and even
for the reigning dukes of Gotha and Weimar....

The movement suffered from internal dissention and was ultimately banned by an edict
of the Bavarian government in 1785.

---SKIP---

I recently heard an old man of right-wing views-a friend of my grandparents-assert that
the current wave of assassinations in America is the work of a secret society called the
Illuminati. He said that the Illuminati have existed throughout history, own the
international banking cartels, have all been 32nd-degree Masons

~Excerpts from The Illuminatus! Trilogy

Why do you think the Masons are a front for the Illuminati?

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
Why would Discordians be interested in the ranks of masonry though? That's my question.

NONSENSE AS SALVATION

The human race will begin solving it's problems on the day that it ceases taking itself so seriously.

To that end, POEE proposes the countergame of NONSENSE AS SALVATION. Salvation from an ugly and barbarous existence that is the result of taking order so seriously and so seriously fearing contrary orders and disorder, that GAMES are taken as more important than LIFE; rather than taking LIFE AS THE ART OF PLAYING GAMES.

To this end, we propose that man develop his innate love for disorder, and play with The Goddess Eris. And know that it is a joyful play, and that thereby CAN BE REVOKED THE CURSE OF GREYFACE.

If you can master nonsense as well as you have already learned to master sense, then each will expose the other for what it is: absurdity. From that moment of illumination, a man begins to be free regardless of his surroundings. He becomes free to play order games and change them at will. He becomes free to play disorder games just for the hell of it. He becomes free to play neither or both. And as the master of his own games, he plays without fear, and therefore without frustration, and therefore with good will in his soul and love in his being.

And when men become free then mankind will be free.
May you be free of The Curse of Greyface.
May the Goddess put twinkles in your eyes.
May you have the knowledge of a sage, and the wisdom of a child. Hail Eris.
—Principia Disco, p00074

reply to post by KSigMason

Originally posted by KSigMason
Why do you think the Masons are a front for the Illuminati?

Because of information such as that presented in the post at the top of this page. And also because it's simple logic really.

reply to post by JoshNorton

Good point...but I'm trying to find the link here between Discordianism and the Illuminati. I know there is a connection, I can see the strands of web...the answer is just so elusive. God damn Illuminati! *shakes fist*

Hate to be a Debbie Downer here...

But the Masons as a front for the Illuminati? Proof or it didn't happen.

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
Because of information such as that presented in the post at the top of this page.

What you have linked at the top of the page is not information, it is someone's opinion.

reply to post by ChaoticOrder


aaaww!!! [i wanted to ask you if you've ever heard of The Invisibles]

greetings fellow invisibilist [the remaining percent, perhaps?]

I believe the Illuminated are a group of men that truly desire to be Gods

the gods are just masks, whats behind the mask?

isn't one of the points of The Invisibles is that labels/roles/order/chaos/good/evil or the judgement/perception thereof are in constant flux? a shape-shifting dance?

today's heroes are yesterdays villains [?!!!]

TCOTBIP, are they not spiritual descendents of the merchant princes who helped Save The World 11,000 yrs ago?

MEMO FROM THE KING IN YELLOW:
attention:
the term Illuminati, having been used by all and sundry to promote all manner of opposing and contradictory agendas is henceforthwith to be used only with the purpose of sowing confusion and discord.

ave discordia

Flavus, Imp.

"try to remember"

reply to post by ChaoticOrder

Norton...Norton...Norton...why is that name so familiar? I cannot be bothered searching through my material, can you please refresh my memory?

And yet your quote from the Principia still belies that you can't quite place the name. Joshua Norton declared himself Emperor of the US in 1859

Though he was considered insane, or at least highly eccentric,[7] the citizens of San Francisco celebrated his regal presence and his proclamations, most famously, his "order" that the United States Congress be dissolved by force and his numerous decrees calling for a bridge and a tunnel to be built across San Francisco Bay (which both happened long after his death in the form of the San Francisco – Oakland Bay Bridge and the Transbay Tube).[8] On January 8, 1880, Norton collapsed at a street corner, and died before he could be given medical treatment. The following day, nearly 30,000 people packed the streets of San Francisco to pay homage to Norton.[9] Norton's legacy has been immortalized in the literature of writers Mark Twain, and Robert Louis Stevenson who based characters on him.

en.wikipedia.org...

This makes January 8th (or any other day for that matter) a great excuse to do whatever the hell you want to do.

To modern day ATS Norton: Fantastic fnord!

As for the OP:

I agree with your assessments. This is why Discordianism is a great tool against the Illuminati. In the end, it is historically one of the many trickster traditions throughout time. And since the point of trickster traditions is to show people the sides of the boxes they didn't even know they were in and the point of religion and the Illuminati is to place and keep people in said boxes...

Hail Eris!

reply to post by coyotepoet


Emperor Joshua Norton also declared himself the the Protector of Mexico...and was a Freemason.
His story is interesting because his eccentricity endeared him to San Franciscans.

"He rode the streetcars free, attended theaters without charge, and was supplied with the necessities of life by those around him. When he ran short of cash, he simply drew drafts on his Imperial Treasury. He issued Royal Proclamations that were designed to better the human race. On Sunday he always attended a church. He played no favourites, but visited them all."

Emperor Joshua Norton

reply to post by ChaoticOrder


The Aneristic Principle is that of apparent order; the Eristic Principle is that of apparent disorder. Both order and disorder are man made concepts and are artificial divisions of pure chaos, which is a level deeper than is the level of distinction making.

God creates; Nature produces; Art multiplies. God created Chaos; Nature produced it; God, Nature, and Art, have perfected it.
...
Chaos means universal matter, formless, but susceptible of all forms. Form is the Light inclosed in the seeds of all species; and its home is in the Universal Spirit.

Morals & Dogma, Ch. XXIX, p783

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder

I recently heard an old man of right-wing views-a friend of my grandparents-assert that
the current wave of assassinations in America is the work of a secret society called the
Illuminati. He said that the Illuminati have existed throughout history, own the
international banking cartels, have all been 32nd-degree Masons

~Excerpts from The Illuminatus! Trilogy

It's worth remembering that Robert Anton Wilson didn't believe most of the fiction that he wrote. Use the Illuminatus! Trilogy as a starting point, but then read his non-fiction works as well... Cosmic Trigger, Prometheus Rising, etc. RAW was a great joker, and one of the driving forces of that trilogy was that he and Shea were throwing ALL the conspiracies they'd ever heard into one impossible novel, without any regard to logic or fact.

I met Wilson & Timothy Leary on the lecture circuit in the late 80's and the best way to sum up their views is:

1. There probably is something going on; and
   
2. It's probably far weirder than you could ever imagine.

reply to post by ChaoticOrder

We're far older than the Illuminati and for us to have been infiltrated there would be noticeable change in the Order. And it's not logical at all. In fact most use non sequitur arguments which is vey illogical.

reply to post by JoshNorton

I met Wilson & Timothy Leary on the lecture circuit in the late 80's and the best way to sum up their views is:

1. There probably is something going on; and 2. It's probably far weirder than you could ever imagine

I'll always carry around Wilson's sage wisdom:

1) Never fully believe anyone else's belief system (BS)
2) Especially never fully believe your own BS

reply to post by YourPopRock

But the Masons as a front for the Illuminati? Proof or it didn't happen.

www.encyclopedia.com...

Illuminati

A term first used in the fifteenth century by enthusiasts in the occult arts, signifying those who claimed to possess light directly communicated from a higher source or because of abundant human wisdom. The term was used in Spain about the end of the fifteenth century, but probably originated from an Italian Gnostic source. All kinds of people, many of them charlatans, claimed to belong to the Illuminati. In Spain those who assumed the label had to face the rigor of the Inquisition, and many of them moved to France as refugees in the early seventeenth century.

Here and there small bodies of those called Illuminati— sometimes known as Rosicrucians —rose into publicity for a short period. It was through Adam Weishaupt (1748-1830), professor of law at Ingolstadt, that the movement first became identified with republicanism. Weishaupt founded the order of the Illuminati in Bavaria in 1776. It soon secured a stronghold throughout Germany. Its critics suggested that its founder's objective was merely to convert his followers into blind instruments of his will.

Weishaupt built a strong organization modeled on the Jesuits'. The Illuminati was an occult organization and had a series of classes and grades, similar to that within Freemasonry. It offered promise of the communication of deep occult secrets in the higher ranks. Only a few of the members knew Weishaupt personally as the society spread throughout Germany. He was able to enlist a number of young men of wealth and position, and within four or five years the members even began to have a hand in the affairs of the state. Not a few of the German princes found it to their interest to have dealings with the fraternity.

Weishaupt blended philanthropy and mysticism. He was only 28 when he founded the sect in 1776, and it began to prosper when a certain Baron Adolph von Knigge (1752-1796) joined him in 1780. A gifted person of strong imagination, von Knigge had been a master of most of the secret societies of his day, including the Freemasons. He was also an expert occultist, and the supernatural held a strong attraction for him. He and Weishaupt rapidly spread the gospel of the revolution throughout Germany. They grew fearful, however, that if the authorities discovered the existence of such a society as theirs they would take steps to suppress it. With this in mind they conceived the idea of grafting Illuminism onto Freemasonry, which they thought would protect it and help it spread more widely and rapidly.

The Freemasons were not long in discovering the true nature of those who had just joined their organization. A chief council was held to thoroughly examine the beliefs held by the Illuminati, and a conference of Masons was held in 1782. Knigge and Weishaupt attended and endeavored to capture the whole organization of Freemasonry, but a misunderstanding grew up between the leaders of Illuminism. Knigge withdrew from the society, and two years later some who discovered Weishaupt's democratic aims denounced it to the Bavarian government, which quickly moved to suppress it. The Illuminati were all but destroyed in 1785 and Weishaupt fled. However, illuminist ideas spread to occultists in France and helped in building support for the French Revolution.

And as we all know, the Bavarian Government didn't succeed in completely exterminating the Illuminati, it sprung up again. And it stands to reason they didn't halt their infaltration of Masonry. It seems pretty clear to me the highest degrees of freemasonry lead directly to initialization into the lower levels of the Illuminati. It's all connected imo. As I said, simple logic.

reply to post by ChaoticOrder


Your OP is confusing and I avoided it. I apologize for that, but I have seen several of your posts regarding your theory of the Illuminati. You seem to dislike them but I don't think you "know" them.

First off, the Illuminati was formed in the late 1700s, it was disbanded shortly thereafter. It no longer exists today. Sure there is most likely a group that pulls the strings and controls the world from behind some curtain, but if they have a name, it isn't Illuminati. The original was formed by a man who was sick of the Church controlling the thought of the masses. (to put it in basic terms) He assembled men who were thinking like him and attempted to change the way the status quo was. During that time, he joined masonry and some would use the term "infiltrated" it to get members from that fraternity to become part of his movement. He wanted free thought. He wanted people like Copernicus to be able to say what they wanted without being silenced by the church because it didn't fall in like with their teachings. (the world is the center of the universe and everything revolves around earth) and other things like that. His methods were aggressive, which is partly why his group was disbanded. If you were to let all of ATS know truly what the Illuminati stood for and what they were, you would find many more agreeing with them than disagreeing. But as the term is bandied around as a generic term for TPTB, that will never happen.

As for the Masons being a front for the Illuminati, just no. We are a very simple group that does exactly what we claim to do. We help each other become better men and we try to help anyone we can who needs it. We do this because we believe in it. We aren't political and we don't have a group opinion of much of anything. We don't have centralized leadership in the name of masonry. We get blamed for everything mainly because people don't know for sure what we do, so they make stuff up. That is my opinion, it was given freely and you get what you pay for.

The proof you posted specifically shows that illuminati was discovered by, and stamped out of Freemasonry when it happened.

You have successfully proved the point that there is no connection.

reply to post by network dude

Your OP is confusing and I avoided it. I apologize for that, but I have seen several of your posts regarding your theory of the Illuminati. You seem to dislike them but I don't think you "know" them.

Well I'm sorry for that, some wont understand it at first. But may I ask how can you avoid it and find it confusing at the same time?

First off, the Illuminati was formed in the late 1700s, it was disbanded shortly thereafter. It no longer exists today. Sure there is most likely a group that pulls the strings and controls the world from behind some curtain, but if they have a name, it isn't Illuminati.

I wouldn't be so quick to assume they simply disbanded. Just because mainstream info says that, doesn't mean it is that case. You guys clearly need to read a few real books on the Illuminati, you're spouting mainstream facts, as if one of the most powerful secret societies known to man would just make it simple to find out about their history and philosophies.

If you were to let all of ATS know truly what the Illuminati stood for and what they were, you would find many more agreeing with them than disagreeing. But as the term is bandied around as a generic term for TPTB, that will never happen.

I am most certainly not claiming the Illuminati were/are some evil group, I made this thread to try and understand their philosophies, no matter what they may be.

As for the Masons being a front for the Illuminati, just no. We are a very simple group that does exactly what we claim to do.

Hehe, well, if you say so pal...

reply to post by ChaoticOrder


The most powerful secret society ever? really? Wow, when did that poll take place?

I bet Adam would be very proud right now. As for them not existing any more, all evidence points to them not being around anymore, or them being one of the very few "truly" secret societies. On this site, it's hard to understand them being disbanded since they are the ones who get blamed for everything from Obama being president, to Osama getting killed. As I said, we seem to need a fall guy.

I don't expect a hard core conspiracy believer to just accept my words as truth on what we do, but quite a few people have come to this very site, claiming masons eat babies, and do terrible things, only to have enough interest to join, and now come back here to tell people the exact same things as I do. I wasn't born a mason.

And for what it's worth, I would not lie to you. Really.


edit to add:

I am most certainly not claiming the Illuminati were/are some evil group, I made this thread to try and understand their philosophies, not matter what they may be.

I wish they still existed, because I would try to join them. I like what they stood for and I like the fact that they took action instead of whining and complaining. they were do-ers.

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
You guys clearly need to read a few real books on the Illuminati, you're spouting mainstream facts, as if one of the most powerful secret societies known to man would just make it simple to find out about their history and philosophies.

First, they weren't one of the most powerful secret societies known to man. They really didn't accomplish all that much during their existence. Second, many of us here have read perhaps the best researched account of the historical Bavarian Illuminati, Perfectibilists by Terry Melanson, who used to be an ATS member. Terry's certainly no friend to Masons, but he also does a good job of separating fact from BS when it comes to the relationship between the Bavarian Illuminati and Freemasonry. Unlike conspiracy theorists, he's gone back to original documents, translated them from German, and he cites his sources.