The Weird and Wacky World of Physics: The Big Bang, Holograms and Repulsive Gravity

reply to post by BlackPoison94


Magnificent thread, BlackPoison94, and this is why I see you going to the U.N.

Through all your mischief and playful side I saw this intelligence hiding in you.

Physics has always been one of those elements of study I enjoyed reading upon.

I have never once ever believed only in "the Big Bang theory" or "Creationism".

Instead I have always believe both of those alleged events were one and the same.

One from the scientific community and one from the religious community.

And through a means of the control mechanism which manipulate society as a whole, divide and conquer is pushed, and these two separate communities were always fighting amongst each other, both sides being right and wrong in many different ways. But this is how propaganda works, scientific propaganda and religious propaganda, it drives those controlling those communities towards aspects of such jealous control of the flow of funding from their congregated communities.

I've not had the time to reply to all of these physics thread so my apologies.

Extremely impressive thread!

I've always loved this subject. I liken our (the human) perspective to the universe to someone in Hawaii trying to observe someone in New York City or London with a pair of binoculars.

It's very possible we'll(humans) never know the real truth of what the universe is.

What I find amazing is that the modern model of the universe bears a striking resemblance to neurons.

reply to post by BlackPoison94


Great work.
Some new stuff in there that i haven't come across before.
You are very very knowledgable in the unvirse ....and beyond

Great thread BlackPoison.
Good research and time well spent.

i do have a simple question though.. well the question is simple, not sure about the answer... lol

where do you think this happened? if the universe was created, and then space time was brought into the picture, where could this have taken place.

would the multiverse theory come into play here, where some event(s) in one universe were able to create this 'new' universe, our universe?

my 2 cent.
Astrophysics is good in as far as the search for understanding the universe enables mankind to make scientific discoveries.
These scientific discoveries can be useful in practical applications, such as applying this knowledge to create new inventions.
these inventions can help make mankind more comfortable but also obviously can also desteroy us all AKA Nuclear waepons and such like.
So asking qusestions of the cosmos is a double edged sword.
this is the tree of knowledge spoken of in the Bible.
once you eat one piece of fruit and find it tastes good, you get addicted.
You eat so much that you get fat with knowledge and think you know it all AKA Big Bank Theory,
You eat every piece of fruit on the tree only to find the tree bears a whole new crop of fruit.
your still are fat..keep on eating and you get so obses you cant move from the spot.
this is how i see most scientists, they develop a theroy, get an over blown ego and tell everyone "This is how it is"
big bang...string theroy...multiverse....holographic universe.....and so on and so on.
This is the ignorance of science...to be stupid enough to think mankind could know infinity and deny God.
Like i said we are here as flesh bodies, so science has its uses but what drives the discoveries is ignorance.
Quite funny.
Would we really be any further forward if we just stayed in the garden of eden and walked past that tree?
but we took a bite so now we are trapped into this for ever more..atleast it occupies mankind, to chase our tail. Scientists who study the universe...obviously enjoy their job, this is good, as long as your enjoying yourself in how you live thats all that really counts. id rather go for a walk than figure out string theory on a white board...but to each his own. like I said we started down this path a long time ago, with the wheel etc, and there is no turning back anyhow..as long as everyone is enjoying themselves then there is no harm in it, unless you really expect to gain enlightenment from it..then youll wind up crazy.
just occured to me...the study of the quantum level, what this really is, seems to be an attempt to crack open reality, well what we experience as reality. if they manage to finally crack it open, which they seem to think they can with the hadron collider, then what happens, will we finally have cut the tree down or pulled it out by the roots. Will we then return back to nothingness as we began. maybe it would be quicker to just get it over with now in that case and nuke the planet. Hahahaha. like i said Id rather take a walk, its likley why we are here anyhow as it makes more sence than all this studying.

Originally posted by Evanzsayz
reply to post by BlackPoison94

 

If our universe was created from one "big bang" how did something that didn't exist go bang it makes no sense at all...if you have a cube of nothing its a cube of nothing until you put something into it things dont just pop up outta nowhere and go bang.

except for those flashbangs swat uses

edit on 11-5-2011 by Evanzsayz because: (no reason given)

Precisely. An eternal evolutionary process makes much more sense than a Big Bang something from nothing theory. People aren't comfortable with eternity however..

Originally posted by NewAgeMan

Originally posted by Evanzsayz
reply to post by BlackPoison94

 

If our universe was created from one "big bang" how did something that didn't exist go bang it makes no sense at all...if you have a cube of nothing its a cube of nothing until you put something into it things dont just pop up outta nowhere and go bang.

except for those flashbangs swat uses

edit on 11-5-2011 by Evanzsayz because: (no reason given)

Precisely. An eternal evolutionary process makes much more sense than a Big Bang something from nothing theory. People aren't comfortable with eternity however..

Unfortunately, that's not the Big Bang theory. It doesn't state that something came from nothing. It's quite possible that there is a sort of evolutionary process of expansion and collapse going on, but currently this is what has been figured out as the best fit.

According to the Big Bang model, the universe was originally in an extremely hot and dense state that expanded rapidly. This expansion caused the universe to cool and resulted in the present diluted state that continues to expand today.

It wasn't empty, just everything existed as a single point and then expanded.

reply to post by BlackPoison94

Here is some information from paper 12 in The Urantia Book.


The universe of universes is not an infinite plane, a boundless cube, nor a limitless circle; it certainly has dimensions. The laws of physical organization and administration prove conclusively that the whole vast aggregation of force-energy and matter-power functions ultimately as a space unit, as an organized and co-ordinated whole. The observable behavior of the material creation constitutes evidence of a physical universe of definite limits. The final proof of both a circular and delimited universe is afforded by the, to us, well-known fact that all forms of basic energy ever swing around the curved path of the space levels of the master universe in obedience to the incessant and absolute pull of Paradise gravity.

The successive space levels of the master universe constitute the major divisions of pervaded space — total creation, organized and partially inhabited or yet to be organized and inhabited. If the master universe were not a series of elliptical space levels of lessened resistance to motion, alternating with zones of relative quiescence, we conceive that some of the cosmic energies would be observed to shoot off on an infinite range, off on a straight-line path into trackless space; but we never find force, energy, or matter thus behaving; ever they whirl, always swinging onward in the tracks of the great space circuits.

Proceeding outward from Paradise through the horizontal extension of pervaded space, the master universe is existent in six concentric ellipses, the space levels encircling the central Isle:

1. The Central Universe — Havona.
2. The Seven Superuniverses.
3. The First Outer Space Level.
4. The Second Outer Space Level.
5. The Third Outer Space Level.
6. The Fourth and Outermost Space Level.

Havona, the central universe, is not a time creation; it is an eternal existence. This never-beginning, never-ending universe consists of one billion spheres of sublime perfection and is surrounded by the enormous dark gravity bodies. At the center of Havona is the stationary and absolutely stabilized Isle of Paradise, surrounded by its twenty-one satellites. Owing to the enormous encircling masses of the dark gravity bodies about the fringe of the central universe, the mass content of this central creation is far in excess of the total known mass of all seven sectors of the grand universe.

The Paradise-Havona System, the eternal universe encircling the eternal Isle, constitutes the perfect and eternal nucleus of the master universe; all seven of the superuniverses and all regions of outer space revolve in established orbits around the gigantic central aggregation of the Paradise satellites and the Havona spheres.

The Seven Superuniverses are not primary physical organizations; nowhere do their boundaries divide a nebular family, neither do they cross a local universe, a prime creative unit. Each superuniverse is simply a geographic space clustering of approximately one seventh of the organized and partially inhabited post-Havona creation, and each is about equal in the number of local universes embraced and in the space encompassed. Nebadon, your local universe, is one of the newer creations in Orvonton, the seventh superuniverse.

The Grand Universe is the present organized and inhabited creation. It consists of the seven superuniverses, with an aggregate evolutionary potential of around seven trillion inhabited planets, not to mention the eternal spheres of the central creation. But this tentative estimate takes no account of architectural administrative spheres, neither does it include the outlying groups of unorganized universes. The present ragged edge of the grand universe, its uneven and unfinished periphery, together with the tremendously unsettled condition of the whole astronomical plot, suggests to our star students that even the seven superuniverses are, as yet, uncompleted. As we move from within, from the divine center outward in any one direction, we do, eventually, come to the outer limits of the organized and inhabited creation; we come to the outer limits of the grand universe. And it is near this outer border, in a far-off corner of such a magnificent creation, that your local universe has its eventful existence.

The Outer Space Levels. Far out in space, at an enormous distance from the seven inhabited superuniverses, there are assembling vast and unbelievably stupendous circuits of force and materializing energies. Between the energy circuits of the seven superuniverses and this gigantic outer belt of force activity, there is a space zone of comparative quiet, which varies in width but averages about four hundred thousand light-years. These space zones are free from star dust — cosmic fog. Our students of these phenomena are in doubt as to the exact status of the space-forces existing in this zone of relative quiet which encircles the seven superuniverses. But about one-half million light-years beyond the periphery of the present grand universe we observe the beginnings of a zone of an unbelievable energy action which increases in volume and intensity for over twenty-five million light-years. These tremendous wheels of energizing forces are situated in the first outer space level, a continuous belt of cosmic activity encircling the whole of the known, organized, and inhabited creation.

Still greater activities are taking place beyond these regions, for the Uversa physicists have detected early evidence of force manifestations more than fifty million light-years beyond the outermost ranges of the phenomena in the first outer space level. These activities undoubtedly presage the organization of the material creations of the second outer space level of the master universe.

The central universe is the creation of eternity; the seven superuniverses are the creations of time; the four outer space levels are undoubtedly destined to eventuate-evolve the ultimacy of creation. And there are those who maintain that the Infinite can never attain full expression short of infinity; and therefore do they postulate an additional and unrevealed creation beyond the fourth and outermost space level, a possible ever-expanding, never-ending universe of infinity. In theory we do not know how to limit either the infinity of the Creator or the potential infinity of creation, but as it exists and is administered, we regard the master universe as having limitations, as being definitely delimited and bounded on its outer margins by open space.

Big bang theroy=everything was born out of nothingness..this includes the human mind
So you could say that the universe or whatever there was before it, didnt have an eye to look at itself or a mind to analyse itself before it gave birth to matter in the big bang
thats if Big bang theory is right.

Expansion and reduction theory=matter has always been, just has been turned on and off repeadedly..if this theory is correct of course.

Zen= if mind is made up of thinking thoughts and thinking was a by product of the Bang then we as humans can only at best study the universe but we cant know it.
the ignorance in science is thinking that by enough study we will finally know it.
the closest we can get to know it is not by thinking about it but to be like the universe, as we are part of it, remember that, most people forget it.
this is zen meditation, the elimination of thoughts and thinking.
if you get good at it you will know the universe better than any scientist or book.
When you know the universe you dont have the desire to chase your own tail anymore.


being human is good..aslong as we are in good physical health...if we look after our bodies generally this will be the case...of course not always but generally.
Eating good food and enjoying art and music, all the world around us and eachother is all good. Is there anything more than this truth?
we ask the question why..because we are discontented and want more than a simplistic understanding of how things are.
the more we ask the deeper the hole we dig. Some enjoy the excorsise of digging, which is also all good, if thats how you are. others dig out of pure frustration at not "knowing the truth of the universe".
Like I said for some the simple answer is just right for others it will never be enough.
to enjoy your life whilst you are alive is all there is and live the best you can and help others to do the same.
as the muslims say
"God is good"


by the way i am not a Hippie...its just a mask i wear sometimes

reply to post by Dashdragon


It only leaves us with 2 hypothesis....The universe has always existed or something created it

Originally posted by Evanzsayz
reply to post by Dashdragon

 

It only leaves us with 2 hypothesis....The universe has always existed or something created it

Both of which are unfortunately unknowable (at this time anyway) There's any number of other explanations, but it all depends on just how looney you want to get to mention them

All part of the idea of Faith when speaking regarding something having created it. I just stick with "I don't know"

Originally posted by Evanzsayz
reply to post by Dashdragon

 

It only leaves us with 2 hypothesis....The universe has always existed or something created it

And if it turns out we are all part of a cosmic computer simulation, created by an infinatley advanced alien civilisation...as some theorists have suggested...then i cant see how we are gonna think our way out of that one..can you...hahahaha



By the way...just for the record...I am no way near clever enough to make these obsevations. This is just the empty mind talking. Genrally if you find me in person ill be wearing one of my many masks and will sometimes even dillude myself by thinking one of them has stuck to my face, as with everyone else. The clairty and understanding of knowing zen comes and goes like this, when you live in society.
its like a moment of clairty when your in a drunken stuper, sitting on a bar stool thinking of nothing, something comes into your mind in a flash, but you cant hold onto it, but for that second you knew everything and it pi55es you of that you cant remember what it was. the joke about this is that you were thinking of nothing, you didnt realise to have the ultimate balnk mind, which sometimes happens when your drunk, you escaped your own thinking for a split second,(isnt this why we get drunk anyhow, hahaha, to escape ourself) that split second your free, this is the ultimate feeling, this is when you are one with the universe and you instantly forget what it was, you just thought you had a life chnging idea, but infact it was the lack of an idea that was potentilly life changing, but you think is was an idea so forget about it again. This happened me many times, whilst drunk. Then whilst meditating i struck lucky and remembered what i forgot and this is how i can talk about zen.

reply to post by BlackPoison94


Re: God

"The God Theory" by Bernard Haisch
www.amazon.com...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1249274834&sr=8-1

Haisch is an astrophysicist whose professional positions include Staff Scientist at the Lockheed Martin Solar and Astrophysics Laboratory, Deputy Director for the Center for Extreme Ultraviolet Astrophysics at the University of California, Berkeley, and Visiting Fellow at the Max-Planck Institute for Extraterrestrial Physics in Garching, Germany. His work has led to close involvement with NASA; he is the author of over 130 scientific papers; and was the Scientific Editor of the Astrophysical Journal for nine years, as well as the editor in chief of the Journal of Scientific Exploration.

an excerpt

If you think of whitte light as a metaphor of infinite, formless potential, the colors on a slide or frame of film become a structured reality grounded in the polarity that comes about through intelligent subtraction from that absolute formless potential. It results from the limitation of the unlimited. I contend that this metaphor provides a comprehensible theory for the creation of a manifest reality (our universe) from the selective limitation of infinite potential (God)...
If there exists an absolute realm that consists of infinite potential out of which a created realm of polarity emerges, is there any sensible reason not to call this "God"? Or to put it frankly, if the absolute is not God, what is it? For our purposes here, I will indentify the Absolute with God. More precisely I will call the Absolute the Godhead. Applying this new terminology to the optics analogy, we can conclude that our physical universe comes about when the Godhead selectively limits itself, taking on the role of Creator and manifesting a realm of space and time and, within that realm, filtering out some of its own infinite potential...
Viewed this way, the process of creation is the exact opposite of making something out of nothing. It is, on the contrary, a filtering process that makes something out of everything. Creation is not capricious or random addition; it is intelligent and selective subtraction. The implications of this are profound.

If the Absolute is the Godhead, and if creation is the process by which the Godhead filters out parts of its own infinite potential to manifest a physical reality that supports experience, then the stuff that is left over, the residue of this process, is our physical universe, and ourselves included. We are nothing less than a part of that Godhead - quite literally.

Next, by Ervin Laszlo

Science and the Akashic Field, an Integral Theory of Everything, 2004
www.amazon.com...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1249275852&sr=8-1

And, his other seminal work
Science and the Reenchantment of the Cosmos: The Rise of the Integral Vision of Reality
www.amazon.com...=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1249275852&sr=8-6

Ervin Laszlo is considered one of the foremost thinkers and scientists of our age, perhaps the greatest mind since Einstein. His principal focus of research involves the Zero Point Field. He is the author of around seventy five books (his works having been translated into at least seventeen languages), and he has contributed to over 400 papers. Widely considered the father of systems philosophy and general evolution theory, he has worked as an advisor to the Director-General of the United Nations Educational, Scientific, and Cultural Organization. He was also nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize in both 2004 and 2005. A multidisciplinarian, Laszlo has straddled numerous fields, having worked at universities as a professor of philosophy, music, futures studies, systems science, peace studies, and evolutionary studies. He was a sucessful concert pianist until he was thirty eight.

In his view, the zero-point field (or the Akashic Field, as he calls it) is quite literally the "mind of God".

Naming Hal Puthoff, Roger Penrose, Fritz-Albert Popp, and a handful of others as "front line investigators", Laszlo quotes Puthoff who says of the new scientific paradigm:

[What] would emerge would be an increased understanding that all of us are immersed, both as living and physical beings, in an overall interpenetrating and interdependant field in ecological balance with the cosmos as a whole, and that even the boundary lines between the physical and "metaphysical" would dissolve into a unitary viewpoint of the universe as a fluid, changing, energetic/informational cosmological unity."

an excert from Science and the Akashic Field, an Integral Theory of Everything

Akasha (a . ka . sha) is a Sanskrit word meaning "ether": all-pervasive space. Originally signifying "radiation" or "brilliance", in Indian philosophy akasha was considered the first and most fundamental of the five elements - the others being vata (air), agni (fire), ap (water), and prithivi (earth). Akasha embraces the properties of all five elements: it is the womb from which everything we percieve with our senses has emerged and into which everything will ultimately re-descend. The Akashic Record (also called The Akashic Chronicle) is the enduring record of all that happens, and has ever happened, in space and time."

Laszlo's view of the history of the universe is of a series of universes that rise and fall, but are each "in-formed" by the existence of the previous one. In Laszlo's mind, the universe is becoming more and more in-formed, and within the physical universe, matter (which is the crystallization of intersecting pressure waves or an interference pattern moving through the zero-point field) is becoming increasing in-formed and evolving toward higher forms of consciousness and realization.

------------

According to James Oroc's experiences (Tryptamine Palace), when the ego is dissolved in consciousness through the temporary formation of a type of neurological "Bose Einstein Condensate", there is no real dilineation or distinction between individual consciousness and God-consciousness or the universal "akashic field" (Lazslo) aka Zero Point Field.

If Qauntum Reality is correct that we live in a NON-LOCAL, holographic universe, then the implications are asbolutely astounding. How so? Well, if we live in an acausal, transluminally interconnected, holographic universe, LOCAL MATTERS!

Originally posted by Dashdragon
It wasn't empty, just everything existed as a single point and then expanded.

Then it's not "pointless" I guess then eh? That's nice.

I've heard it said that everything can only be recognized for what it is, when it is first understood that it arose from a particular nothing ie: a point. However everything that always was, is and will be in eternity, is already always everything already to begin with...

reply to post by BlackPoison94


WHOA! That's a lot of stuff! I only like snippets. An informative line here or there is good. Maybe a paragraph, but not a John Cheever paragraph (LONGGGGG). Even when I write, I don't like to be overwhelming. I think I got this aversion to heavy reading via Twitter. So, when I feel I've written enough to get my message across I just sto

Modern physics, astronomy and cosmology are all pet peeves of mine. Didn't anyone else notice how many theories, conjectures, hypotheses and plain old "we think"s were mentioned in the OP. Thanks OP for compiling this information, but I guarantee you in fifty years or less people will laugh at us just like we laugh at those who believed in aether. Oh wait, many of the all-pervading forces that you discuss sound a lot like aether. In fact, you could probably simplify a lot of physics if you brought back that concept.

we all look at newtonian physics as a necessary evil - we know it is not the "true" explanation of things but it has enough utility in our macroscopic world that it is still in general use. We cannot even explain to most scientists' satisfaction why electrons don't spiral into the nucleus, how a covalent bond is truly formed, how gravity works, how mass is imbued, what inertia is, how force is carried, and on and on and on. Ali G was right in that even a simple magnet is a miracle according to our current understanding of physics. When even our most basic physics is based not only on unproved assumptions but wild guesses, well you can imagine how much faith I have in the complex stuff.

Modern physics is a patchwork of cobbled together ad hoc theories that are constantly being fudged in order to explain the next unexplainable unpredicted phenomenon. Until we have more honesty, more openness and less rigidity in the scientific community, we will still be burning fossil fuels and using AC power generators 100 years from now. I for one think that is a bleak future and hope that this foolish consistency of scientists to stick to the "mainstream" - even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary - will end. And by the way, I am about as mainstream, normal (for whatever that means these days) and educated a person as anyone and likely more than most, especially on this board. I just have decided that willful ignorance is not an option anymore and I would rather be told uncomfortable truths than convenient fabrications.

reply to post by BlackPoison94


Dear BlackPoison94,

I think you did a wonderful job of presenting the state of physics and what it currently believes. As you are a Hindu, clearly you believe in a spiritual realm, that doesn't mean that we believers can't also investigate science, there is also a natural realm. I am sorry if some people did not understand where you were coming from. I am not a scientist; but, I follow quantum physics regularly and enjoy trying to explain it in everyday terms to people that do not know the terminology, you do a better job than I do and will enjoy reading your future posts.

Very good thread BlackPoision, thank you for the quick lesson. Very well presented and informative. Who cares if you write we or forgot to write theory after an explanation. You're obviously trying to put across a vast wealth of knowledge as simply as you can so we can understand and try to comprehend your way of thinking. Thank you for your time and effort.

Originally posted by wkworthington3
Modern physics is a patchwork of cobbled together ad hoc theories that are constantly being fudged in order to explain the next unexplainable unpredicted phenomenon. Until we have more honesty, more openness and less rigidity in the scientific community, we will still be burning fossil fuels and using AC power generators 100 years from now. I for one think that is a bleak future and hope that this foolish consistency of scientists to stick to the "mainstream" - even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary - will end. And by the way, I am about as mainstream, normal (for whatever that means these days) and educated a person as anyone and likely more than most, especially on this board. I just have decided that willful ignorance is not an option anymore and I would rather be told uncomfortable truths than convenient fabrications.

edit on 11-5-2011 by wkworthington3 because: (no reason given)

You have touched upon a profound reality.
Mainstream will embrace the not mainstream rather slowly, for the non mainstream has to be doctored enough so that it will fit into the mainstream.
Even given that the overwhelming evidence has to be inducted into the mainstream. The mainsream will dodge it
until it is cornered into accepting it, This acceptance in some cases may take infinitely long.