Wilders controversial crusade against 'Islamic ideology' continues

Originally posted by Runaway1977

Originally posted by JohhnyBGood
reply to post by Konstantinos

 

Painting muslims with one brush...........................because muslims are all required to follow the Koran, sunnah and hadith - there is no choice, no dissention, no apostising - just submission to the direct instructions of allah and the perfect unquestionable example of Muhammeds life.

Does the same brush apply to everyone who follows The Bible? If not, why not? Interpretation is everything. Consider the difference between Billy Graham and Jim Jones and see if you cannot understand the difference between a Moderate Muslim and a Wahhabi. The first two followed the same book. The second two follow the same book.

I hope you can perhaps clear this up for me.

Christ instructs ' love your enemies ' and ' love one another as yourself '

even ' do good to those who spitefully use you and plot against you '


The message is clear unless you choose to ignore this..

the koran instructs the exact opposite.. instructing violence and conquering in the name of islam .. going as far as instructing to ' Not take Christians and jews as your friends ' !

Click here for more information.

reply to post by Zamini


people will say what they will, they will be defensive and angry.. but nothing will move the fact the koran instructs the follower to cause bloodshed in the name of islam..yesterday and today.

reply to post by steven704


Yes and the bible clearly states for you to kill people that work on Sundays.

Does that mean you should not tell any Christians you work on Sunday? Does that mean you have to be fearful of Christians if you work on a Sunday?

The point is, both the Koran and the Bible are open for interpretation, that's fact. The religious authorities tried to KEEP people from forming their own interpretation because they could rally the masses under religious unity when they needed. The other point is, the interpretations of tomorrow are going to be milder than yesterdays interpretations - because the world is getting smaller.

It is key to educate people about this. That way no psychopath can come along and try to get followers by pretending to be religious/believing he is religious.

Hypothetically speaking, if you raise a child with the idea that jumping off a high bridge won't kill him - he is able to jump believing he won't be hurt, but he won't be able to avoid the actual injury/death.

reply to post by steven704


You should try reading the Quran and commentaries on it before making arguments based upon it. You can't just pick one or two quotes and chuck them around as proof of violence, context and narrative are required to make judgements on any statements in any religious text which deals with the history of a people. Any religious text can be twisted to justify war, but the message of all religions has always been peace. Human nature and our willingness to fight is what corrupts religion.

The Quran doesn't instruct violence against all non-believers. It makes acceptable war in defense of the Muslim community and war to prevent persecution of the Muslim community, these are the only instances when fighting is acceptable. These are the only times Muslims are allowed to fight and they aren't allowed to 'transgress'.

Muslims were forbidden to retaliate to the persecution they faced in Mecca even though they were being attacked and tortured, forbidden from owning property etc. Eventually after the migration to Madinah after Muhammad was threatened with death they were faced with total war from the Meccan tribes and were then instructed to make war against anyone who makes war against them and fight against the people who drove them out of Mecca.

2.190. Fight against those who fight against you in the way of Allah, but do not transgress, for Allah does not love transgressors. 2.191. Kill them whenever you confront them and drive them out from where they drove you out. (For though killing is sinful) wrongful persecution is even worse than killing. Do not fight against them near the Holy Mosque unless they fight against you; but if they fight against you kill them, for that is the reward of such unbelievers. 2.192. Then if they desist, know well that Allah is Ever-Forgiving, Most Compassionate. 2.193. Keep on fighting against them until mischief ends and the way prescribed by Allah prevails. But if they desist, then know that hostility is only against the wrong-doers. 2.194. The sacred month for the sacred month; sanctities should be respected alike ( by all concerned). Thus, if someone has attacked you, attack him just as he attacked you, and fear Allah and remain conscious that Allah is with those who guard against violating the bounds set by Him.

Islam is supposed to be and usually is a peaceful religion, just like Christianity is supposed to be and usually is, the problem is there will always be people that need to find justification for their violence and the easiest way to do so is to use religion.

Click here for more information.

Originally posted by steven704
Every man should be concerned about EVERY muslim.. the instruction is ' duty to cause violence and destruction in the name of islam '
Every man should be concerned.

So please tell me, have you ever read any of Al Quran or do you know any Muslims personally?
I think we know the answer to both questions don't we?
Do us both a favour, go and give that square glass fronted box in the corner of your room to somebody you do not like, believe me, you will benefit from your generosity

PEACE,
RK

reply to post by steven704

"Christ instructs ' love your enemies ' and ' love one another as yourself '

even ' do good to those who spitefully use you and plot against you ' "

Christ also proclaimed that till heaven and earth pass away every bit of the OT law will remain. (Including the part about stoning to death people who pick up sticks on the Sabbath, Im guessing.)
This is clear unless you ignore it and cherry pick the lovey-dovey verses from the bible.

the koran instructs the exact opposite.. instructing violence and conquering in the name of islam .. going as far as instructing to ' Not take Christians and jews as your friends ' !

If you think the violence in the Koran is even half way close to the violence in the bible, you have not read the bible.
Also muslims have it in their scriptures to NOT kill women, children, and the old... the exact opposite of whats in the OT. Killing suckling infants, women, old people.... Want me to provide quotes? Or will you just brush this under the carpet??

Ahhh yes, the same old tired cliches of comparing so called christian violence that took place thousands of years ago with modern day islamic violence. This is 2011 not 111, the rest of us have climbed up the evolutionary ladder, come join us, it's nice being free and so can you, however, please leave your stone age barbaric practices at the front door when you arrive at our western airports. Like another member asked a few pages back yet it was ignored, can anyone show us a NEWS link to "christian violence" against inoccent people that has taken place in the last year or even 5, 10 or 20 years? Violence by muslims happens on a daily basis around the world, this is a fact that can be backed up with solid statisics and numbers. Islam is white knuckle terror at it's finest. The so called religion of peace, or else!

I have never read the bible or the quran as I believe both will turn ones brain into a mushy poop like substance and I urge everyone to stick to scientific text books instead, things that can be proven work well for my brain. However, I need to look no further than everyday NEWS reports to tell me how barbaric, archaic and out of place islam is in a modern day civilized society, no matter what version of the quran is followed. Wilder mentioned during the interview how the beating up of gay men in Holland on a regular basis had increased 100 fold since the flood of muslim immigrants started years ago, this is unacceptable in todays society yet you never hear of so called "moderate" muslims speaking out against such acts, kind of interesting isn't it?

Let me ask you all this, would you all mind if a nation someplace in this world of ours adopted the doctrine and principles that the nazi's followed back in 1939? And would you mind if that same nation seeked to promote such hatred and doctrine thoughout the rest of the world like Canada the US and Europe?

reply to post by steven704


Did you know that Muslims in Indonesia also attack other muslims for following a different interperation of the Koran? - You are just painting every Muslim in the same color.
This is a hilarious joke that applies to the Bible which isn't much better or much more tolerant than the Koran as many of you claim.

Dear President Bush,

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from you and understand why you would propose and support a constitutional amendment banning same sex marriage. As you said "in the eyes of God marriage is based between a man a woman." I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination... End of debate.

I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some other elements of God's Laws and how to follow them.

1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanness - Lev.15: 19-24. The problem is how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is, my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2. clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it?

6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there 'degrees' of abomination?

7. Lev.21:20 states that I may ! not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle- room here?

8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?

9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy considerable expertise in such matters, so I am confident you can help.

Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

reply to post by Jocko Flocko

This is 2011 not 111, the rest of us have climbed up the evolutionary ladder, come join us, it's nice being free and so can you, however, please leave your stone age barbaric practices at the front door when you arrive at our western airports.

Yes, the West has evolved when you compare them to the rest of the world. The rest of the world are just a bunch of barbaric tribes with no culture but the bushman culture. No civilization.

Hey, do you own a whip at home that one of your great grandfathers used?

And fyi, not reading the bible or quran because "it turns your mind into poop" is everything BUT a scientific approach so thanks for letting us know exactly how valid your opinion is.

And furthermore;

Wilder mentioned during the interview how the beating up of gay men in Holland on a regular basis had increased 100 fold since the flood of muslim immigrants started years ago, this is unacceptable in todays society yet you never hear of so called "moderate" muslims speaking out against such acts, kind of interesting isn't it?

Wilders is projecting his own fears onto the Muslim population and he is getting people with fragile minds(much like you demonstrate) to believe him because he utters such absurdities. Increased a hundred fold? Do you believe that? You don't think he is sensationalizing it to prove himself important as a sock puppet? See, you can mention stuff like "scientific" but when you actually don't know what you're talking about, you will get sucked in by charlatans, who are an extension of Israeli foreign policy. But your scientific mind had already discerned that right?

Oh I love it when people use the term scientific and pull a Godwin right after.

reply to post by CountDrac


You agree with whom now? Are you afraid of the boogeyman? Do you leave cookies on the chimney for Santa Claus? Or can you honestly admit that you have no idea what you are talking about and you are just parroting someone else because...(and I won't tell others the reason, you can do it if you man up).

our own lil' Hitler.

Don't take this seriously, you'll only empower it.
You know where he get's his money blablabla nothing new here, move along!

delete?

Get rid of Islam PLEASE.
Worst religion of all.

reply to post by Zamini


Absurdities, hmm... It's interesting that a google serch of "muslims attack gay people" yields many links and much information. Scientifically speaking, the best use of the quran and the bible is toilet paper in terms of it's benefit to mankind in general throughout the ages. I would imagine they also make great heating fuel as well.

Also, alluding to "whips" and "zionism" just made me scan over your post and not really read it. Doing so only points to the type of person that you are and what road of debate you might be heading towards, you might want to tone such nonsense down when trying to convince weak minded morons and simpletons that your "religion of peace" poses no threat to our western way of life. Otherwise you end up just being thrown onto that garbage pile of groups that wish to "wipe Isreal off the face of the planet".

Perhaps a few links to such "absurdities"?

pajamasmedia.com...

www.pinknews.co.uk...

www.time.com...

Islam, the "religion of peace"

There are literally hundreds of such reports when you search for them through google.

People will eventually educate themselves about this so called "religion of peace" once they begin to venture out of the bounds of the MSM who dare not touch such issues. It will take time, but eventually they will learn, just as Europeans are now learning that radical islam and islam in general fits into a liberal and open society about as much as a nazi does at a gay pride festival.

Btw, I'm "that guy" who walks around with a t-shirt of that outstanding Dutch cartoon of your so called prophet/pedophile muhammed. Long live freedom of speech and freedom of expression and may your outdated, stone age religion be completely banned and enshrined in the constitution of western civilized societies.

Also, take note the questions that were asked have been dodged and not answered, yet people who will try to defend islam and it's barbaric ideology will often focus on trivial things instead of the questions regarding mass murder and hatred.

Questions to muslims and those who support it's ideology (typically silent 'liberals' in the MSM):

-Would you all mind if a nation someplace in this world of ours adopted the doctrine and principles that the nazi's followed back in 1939? And would you mind if that same nation seeked to promote such hatred and doctrine thoughout the rest of the world like Canada the US and Europe?

-Why is it that so called "moderate muslims" are never heard speaking out against such acts like the hatred of gays and the call to terrorist 'jihad' over simple cartoons based upon freedom of speech? These same moderates are often silent when terrorist attacks such as the Beslam massacre in Russia took place. Interesting isn't it?

-How do you explain the MASSIVE amounts of deadly terrorist attacks in the name of islam that have taken place around the globe since 9/11. To date there has been 17197 islamic terrorist attacks since 9/11, this number can be backed up through NEWS links followed from THIS website.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


Here is a wonderful explanation for you.

( Does the New Covenant Abolish the Commandments? )
www.gnmagazine.org...

And Ephesians 2:15 (King James Version) " Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; "

THERE is a very good reason you cannot find mass killings/murders by Followers of Christ.

The Holy Spirit is very real and the ONLY dwelling place for Him is in Truth !

AMEN.

reply to post by steven704


You should check your history, Europe up until the last 200 years or so was characterised by perpetual religious war, people went to war over Christianity, not to mention the crusades.

There has been just as much murder and mayhem in the name of Christianity as there has in any other religion. No religion teaches perpetual warfare, it's people's misinterpretations which cause war and killing in the name of religion.

Disregard.