Republicans In Texas Senate Approve Guns On Campus

Originally posted by stonebutterfly
She is responsible, and by the time shes in college I will feel better knowing if any perv comes lurking she can scare them away.

Scare them away or shoot them? I see no reason that this "perv" will not also be armed. Will your little girl be ready to take a life? Is your bank account ready to take that to court? Are you sure she will not be outgunned? Do you know she is a better and more confident shot than said "perv?" It sure sounds like some of you think this means only that perfectly responsible, mature kid of yours will be the one with a gun instead of everyone.

I was taught never to pull my gun unless I was prepared to use it. You taught your daughter to scare people with hers?

Originally posted by MikeNice81
What about the Duke grad student killed in his dorm by a local thug that was supposed to be locked up? Look up the murder of Eve Carson.

Eve Carson was shot.
Would have permitting her to carry a gun have made her bullet proof? She was kidnapped by two men. Two men with guns. Oh if only she had had a gun too, then she would still be alive.

Click here for more information.

reply to post by vor78


I'm less worried about the gun owners than their drunk friends. I seriously doubt the guns would be locked up, otherwise what is the point of having them as a deterrent?

reply to post by Runaway1977
[more
I havent taught her to "scare people" like the little punks running around with illegal weapons. I taught her not to shoot until absolutely necessary, and

sometimes pulling one out is enough to scare off a perptrator without having to use it. as for being prepared to shoot someone that is only known when the situation presents itself. no one really knows what they would do until they are faced with the situation. but i would rather her learn rules safety regulation instead of not knowing. she is being taught ultimate power of the gun by hunting for food, and yes we eat what we kill, even rattle snakes. by the way in Texas law is on our side. we have the castle law. anyone who comes in your home while occupied is considered someone who wants to do harm. if they see my gun and do not run i WILL shoot to protect my children too. but hopefully they run away and i do not have to.

I think this is great news and I hope that it trickles into other states. Consider the massive size and location of many college campuses. Many like Ohio State are cities unto themselves and are not located in the best of areas. So if you live off campus you can protect yourself with a CCW but you can't protect yourself on the way to campus because you cannot carry on campus. If you walk or ride the bus you're screwed and if you drive you must leave your weapon locked in the car. If that's even legal on campus. Makes no sense.

Remember the shootings at Virgina Tech and Case Western Reserve? We'll never know if a legally armed student or faculty member could have intervened rapidly thus preventing greater injury and loss of life.

When I was a student at Kent State University, we were faced with this lunatic. I actually saw the man cross the street in front of me on his way to his shooting spree at the apartment complex. I got a phone call hours later explaining what had just happened.

The lobby area of The Kiva in the Kent Student Center was the scene of a murder and its subsequent investigation in December 1991.

A student discovered the body of university custodial worker John T. Frazier Dec. 12, 1991 slumped over in a chair in the lobby. Frazier had been shot from behind in the shoulder with a .38-caliber pistol and died from the wound.

Kent State University Police Chief John Peach, then the director of the university police, said the unexplained shooting death was the first homicide in campus history.

"It's an isolated incident, as bad as it is," Peach said.

A month and a half later, during the search for Frazier's killer, a KSU graduate student was shot in the chest while waiting for her husband in an alcove of White Hall. The student, Sarah Smith, survived the shot, but the gunman fled.

KSU officials worked with local and regional law enforcement agencies to form a special task force to hunt for the shooter. Fear gripped students and residents alike who did not know if there was more than one shooter. They would soon find out.

Ten days later, on Feb. 10, 1992, an unknown gunman shot out several windows at the Glenmorris Apartment complex. Again, the gunman disappeared, but KSU police spotted a man matching the description of the gunman near Satterfield and Bowman halls a few hours later. The man released five shots at three campus officers who returned five, but no one was hit, and he fled on foot.

Police spotted the man leaving the campus and crossing into the neighborhood of South Willow Street. The gunman, 35-year-old Mark K. Cunningham, died from a single gunshot fired by a Kent police officer, who shot Cunningham while in the midst of re-loading.

Cunningham was an artist with a bachelor's degree in fine arts from KSU in 1985. News stories and acquaintances pegged him as a loner, a "weird recluse", one outlet reported, who was diagnosed as a "schizotypal" personality.

Though Cunningham was responsible for one death, his four appearances on and around campus created an atmosphere of fear and uncertainty not unlike the effects of Monday's shooting at Virginia Tech.

KSU students appeared on television news programs and in local papers questioning their safety after Frazier's death and before police shot his killer.

Yet his actions united the community of students and officials who came together to mourn Frazier and support each other after Smith's shooting.

Then KSU President Carol Cartwright said of Frazier's murder and Smith's attack: "Obviously events like this change people and change institutions," Cartwright said in February 1992. "I think we will be more vigilant as a community and take more care. We have been reminded ... that (violence) can come to our door, and I think we have been reminded in a powerful way."

www.recordpub.com...

Anyway this guy had everyone on campus living in fear for months and I all I had on me was a pocket knife and a can of Mace. Concealed carry was not an option in the state back in those days. We've learned a lot since then.

reply to post by Runaway1977


No a gun does not make you bullet proof. However, let us look at the situation.

Two men aproached her home late at night dressed in dark clothes. They did not want to be seen or heard. One man pulled out a .25 caliber pistol. (A pistol that has a history of being stopped by heavy clothing and failing to cause death even when fired directly in to the head.) The second guy never showed that he had a shotgun.

They targeted a quiet residential street known to be home to many college students. They were looking for easy unarmed targets. They were also trying to avoid detection. This was because both men were hardened criminals. However, one had found out hat robbing college students was safer than your usual breaking and entering or robbery.

From my research and experience I believe a gun would have greatly helped Eve Carson. The guy that pulled the gun to kidnap her was the "alpha." He was the agressor with previous gun play experience. The other guy was a two bit hood, a simple breaking and entering type of guy. If Eve Carson had shot the first guy chances are the second one would have fled. They were looking for simple targets. The second guy would not have wanted to draw excessive attention and get caught.

That would have left Eve Carson facing one shooter that was carrying an underpowered hand gun. The odds would have been in her favor. She most likely would have been wounded. However, today we would be talking about the UNC Student Body President that was badly wounded in an attempted kidnapping. Instead today we talk about the murdered UNC Student Body President.

Eve Carson could have had a fighting chance that night. However, the legislatures and campuses have given in to emotional pandering. The justice system failed to do their job in the past. Two criminals that were supposed to be locked up were free. The system told Eve and tens of thousands of students to depend on them. Then they betrayed them all by failing to do their job. Now, people demand the right to protect their life. All the while people on the sidelines demean them and tell them to depend on the police.

Yeah, keep telling the adults in college to roll over and take it. It has worked out so far.

Of course for me, I rather die on my feet than begging for my life in the middle of the street. I rather die going for the gun beside my bed than with tear stained cheeks, in my pajamas, in full public view. I rather die with dignity and resolve than be forced to crawl for the enrichment of some predator that cares less about my life than he does the rims on his car.

There are two things from Marko Kloos' essay Give Them Nothing that strike a chord with me.

There are people in this world to whom you’re not a human being. They don’t want to be respected by you. They don’t care about you–they’re not even really aware of you. They only care about the food you represent, the money that’s in your pocket. You’re not a person to them, but an obstacle. You’re just in the way of the reward, like a wrapper around a candy bar, and these people are willing to discard you just like that wrapper in order to get what they want...


No, the appropriate response to violence is not submission. Submission encourages the thugs, and it gives them absolutely no incentive to consider a career change. When you preach submission, you only guarantee more of the behavior that takes advantage of that submission. The only appropriate response to violence is white-hot anger. When someone sticks a gun in your face and threatens to kill you over the contents of your wallet or your register, your response ought to be rage. The very thought of some low-life thug threatening to snuff you out and make your children orphans for no reason other than the money you carry ought to make you furious.

And then you need to put that fury to good use. Yield nothing, not an inch, not a penny, not a hair on your head, without fighting for it tooth and nail. Do your level best to ensure that if someone has to end up in a body bag this hour, it won’t be your body in that bag. And even if it should happen to be your turn to take your seat in Valhalla, you might as well put your best effort into making sure that you arrive there with your attacker in a firm headlock.

Originally posted by stonebutterfly
reply to post by Runaway1977
[more
I havent taught her to "scare people" like the little punks running around with illegal weapons. I taught her not to shoot until absolutely necessary, and

Apologies. Apparently what I did was read what you wrote and take it to mean what you meant to write.

Originally posted by stonebutterfly
She is responsible, and by the time shes in college I will feel better knowing if any perv comes lurking she can scare them away.

and right there

sometimes pulling one out is enough to scare off a perptrator without having to use it.

So good. We need dorms full of scared drunk people pulling guns to "scare" people as long as they do indeed plan to use it and not just scare people? I find it hard to see how it can be both.
Please forgive.

reply to post by MikeNice81

Oh I am certain that once two men show you that they have at least one gun already trained on you, the coureous thing to do would be to allow Eve the time to retrieve her gun, make sure it is loaded, and take off the safety. Kidnapping murderers are ineffably the all time fair gamesmen.

reply to post by Runaway1977


Or, she would have been doing what most people licensed to carry do. When approaching the door after midnight she could have been carrying.

The whole point of licensed concealed carry or carry at home is to have the gun at hand. This might suprise you, but millions of Americans have fully loaded guns on their person. If the gun isn't on their person it is with in reach. A gun that you have to take time to load and double check is no good.

RIght now I have a gun less than an arm's length away. It is loaded, it has no manual safety, and it would take less than 3 seconds to get the first shot on target. If I had to answer the door to an unknown person after midnight, the gun would be in hand and tucked behind my leg. If someone presented a gun they would be shot before it was brought on target.

Guns are used thousands of times a day for defense. By allowing college students to have guns you equip them with one more option. The option we all pray we never have to use. The option to use lethal force for protection when you are in iminent fear of death, rape, or grievious bodily injury.

I'm sure these colleg students were glad they lived off campus and had a gun.

Bailey said he thought it was the end of his life and the lives of the 10 people inside his apartment for a birthday party after two masked men with guns burst in through a patio door.

“They just came in and separated the men from the women and said, ‘Give me your wallets and cell phones,’” said George Williams of the College Park Police Department.

Bailey said the gunmen started counting bullets. “The other guy asked how many (bullets) he had. He said he had enough,” said Bailey.

That’s when one student grabbed a gun out of a backpack and shot at the invader who was watching the men. The gunman ran out of the apartment.

link

One of the invaders ended up dead. The other one was seriously wounded. However, the oh so irresponsible college student saved at least ten lives.

Originally posted by MikeNice81
Or, she would have been doing what most people licensed to carry do. When approaching the door after midnight she could have been carrying.

The whole point of licensed concealed carry or carry at home is to have the gun at hand. This might suprise you, but millions of Americans have fully loaded guns on their person. If the gun isn't on their person it is with in reach. A gun that you have to take time to load and double check is no good

Yeah sure, sounds great. Let's just say I am the campus perv, coming to assault her. My gun will be ready to use in order to commit my crime. Your daughter will what? Have hers on her person somewhere? Hope she can get it out, aim it, and have the balls to take that shot then.

Having a concealed weapon is worthless when you have a weapon already pointed at you. I am not sure where you all learned gun safety but I will just repeat. Always taught to never pull it unless I plan to use it.

I think a lot of people are missing some grounding in reality here.

The "perv" like any other individual criminal or not is not less likely or more likely to have a firearm during the commission his crime with or without a legal allowance for firearms on campus.

The situation stands the same for every other place on this planet where the carrying of a firearm is permitted.

That much is a constant.

If a "perv" or other criminal wished to use a firearm in the commission of any crime the lawful allowance of possessing said firearm in any place is a moot point.

It remains constant whether or not possession is permitted regardless of the "zone."

The only variable that changes is for the law-abiding.

Also, permitting carrying doesnt necessarily translate into more guns being available in any certain area. Those who carry anyway will continue to do so and those who do not will not run out and arm themselves. This correlation is a myth just as all the other "blood will run in the streets" correlations the anti-gun crowd tries to convince people of. They said it about the AWB expiration and the DC ruling and everytime some stupid "guns in bars" or "guns in churches" bill passes.

Well, I'm standing in the street right now and my shoes are not stained red.

Originally posted by whaaa
What a great image....

Drunk college kids packin heat at a rivalry football game and the ref makes a stupid call.

This won't last long....first student shoot out on campus and some innocent bystanders shot....

edit on 10-5-2011 by whaaa because: code 67

I have to keep posting this map in response to comments like yours - whenever they get posted.

map

If you look closely, you will notice that almost every mass shooting that's ever taken place in the U.S. has happened in a so-called "gun free zone".

The shooters had another phrase for these places: Target Rich Environments

Stop the false propaganda on guns and and gun rights!

reply to post by Runaway1977


What if, what if, what if. . . Look you can always find a scenario where a tactic or option will not work. If you play what if long enough you can make it seem like the only option is to lay down and beg for mercy. The truth is however, only 3% of rapes are completed when a woman uses a gun in defense. They are completed about 33% of the time when a woman resists using her hands and feet. I rather my daughter have a 97% chance of stopping a rape than a 67% chance.

The important thing to remember is mindset - skill set - tool set. You have to use situational awareness to see what is happening, or to just avoid stupid mistakes. Then if that fails you use your skill set to ensure that your tools are successful.

I have used a gun to fend off a person that had a knife pulled. We were less than five feet apart when the attempted robbery began. Using things in my enviroment I was able to create distance, pull my gun, and end the confrontation. He fled when he realized that he was not facing your average schmo.

By all accounts I should never have been able to draw on a guy with a knife at that distance. However, my mindset and skill set allowed me to use my environment to buy time. That allowed me to bring my tools in to play. He did not have the skill set to overcome and he quickly had to give up or face serious injury.

What is the point of my little anecdote? There are times when a gun will not save you. However, with the proper mind set and skill set a gun will help you stay alive. When unarmed citizens would have to give up, or would maybe even die, you have the chance to fight your way home. I don't believe that people should be denied that just because they choose to attend a university and improve their station in life.

Originally posted by InvisibleAlbatross
reply to post by Exuberant1

 

College students are for all intents and purposes, kids. And they often drink. A drunk "kid" with a gun. I can't foresee any problems with that.

ETA: I love the unfounded personal attack. Your point would be better made if you stayed on topic.

edit on 10-5-2011 by InvisibleAlbatross because: (no reason given)

They have to be 21 to carry. They only have to be 18 to die for their country. Yeah, they're just kids.

This is great news. My wife (then girlfriend) was assaulted twice at two different campuses, one of them the same one I'm back at now. I wish she'd been able to carry then. Looking at the current crop of humanity there now, I'm glad I'll be able to carry.

/TOA

Originally posted by Runaway1977

Originally posted by MikeNice81
Or, she would have been doing what most people licensed to carry do. When approaching the door after midnight she could have been carrying.

The whole point of licensed concealed carry or carry at home is to have the gun at hand. This might suprise you, but millions of Americans have fully loaded guns on their person. If the gun isn't on their person it is with in reach. A gun that you have to take time to load and double check is no good

Yeah sure, sounds great. Let's just say I am the campus perv, coming to assault her. My gun will be ready to use in order to commit my crime. Your daughter will what? Have hers on her person somewhere? Hope she can get it out, aim it, and have the balls to take that shot then.

Having a concealed weapon is worthless when you have a weapon already pointed at you. I am not sure where you all learned gun safety but I will just repeat. Always taught to never pull it unless I plan to use it.

Let's put in easy to understand language:

If she's carrying, she MIGHT be a victim
If she's not, she'll DEFINITELY be a victim.

Get the difference?

/TOA

reply to post by The Old American



OKEY DOKEY!

reply to post by Runaway1977


Do you know why the wild west really wasn't?

Because everybody carried guns,and every one knew it.

There is not a court jury in this country that would convict a woman of shooting a rapist.

This country has become the mess it has, because of the liberal agenda.

I think all this crap about drunk college kids waving guns around is just fear mongering and B.S. This DOES NOT mean that EVERY college student can suddenly pack heat just because he or she wants to. All this does is allow individuals who have a conceal carry permit and can already carry a gun throughout their daily lives the ability to do so while at school. In order to meet the requirements to obtain such a license you must be of age, have a clean record, AND go through proper training. I believe that the vast majority of individuals who meet the requirements are responsible individuals who are fully capable of keeping and bearing arms in a safe manner.

You really should visit: Texas DPS - CHL Conviction Rates Reports

Notice how small the conviction rate of CHL holders is when compared to the average Texas citizen!

Originally posted by IamJustanAmerican
reply to post by Runaway1977

 

Do you know why the wild west really wasn't?

Because everybody carried guns,and every one knew it.

I appreciate that. I just got back from a four day defensive handgun course at Front Sight. It was amazing how friendly everyone was. Women would come up to me and just start a conversation. Complete strangers would talk to each other. Everyone was excessively polite. Everyone held doors open for everyone else. There were no "macho displays" even by guys who were, well, kinda big and mean looking.

During lunch breaks the instructors said, "You can just leave your stuff here. We don't seem to have a crime problem here."

Of course, everyone there had a firearm strapped to their waists and two full magazines on the opposite side. It was a perfect living example of, "An armed society is a polite society."