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Obama's quiet strike against the "socialist" label

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posted on May, 9 2011 @ 10:39 PM
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An interesting article, I think, and one appropriate for the 'madness' forum in that it delves into the different ideas of 'Left" and "Right" within conventional and popular usage.

Basically the article is saying Obama is proposing the selling off of 'excess' government properties to help balance the books. It goes on to say that this can help balance out people's impression of Obama as a "Socialist" because it characterizes this move as being more 'libertarian'

So, wha do you think of the specifics of the plan and what do you think as to the accuracy of those labels?



The administration has identified a massive asset class worth unloading. The federal government is the largest owner of real estate in the nation, sitting on hundreds of millions of acres of land that takes up about 30 percent of the country's surface.

The value of Uncle Sam's nondefense real estate portfolio is estimated at $230 billion, and it carries a maintenance cost of around $20 billion a year. If Congress moves ahead on the White House's recommendation, 60 percent of sale proceeds from properties the White House has deemed excess will go to paying down the deficit, with 40 percent to cover costs on other government-run facilities.

In addition to the one-time cash from the sale, the government can begin generating tax revenues on land that was previously an expense. Just don't get too excited about landing a piece of the Grand Canyon -- the administration describes this first round of sales as "sheds, underutilized office buildings and empty warehouses." (The White House actually put together an interactive map of all of the excess properties.)




www.salon.com.../politics/2011/05/08/obama_s_libertarian_turn

www.whitehouse.gov...




posted on May, 9 2011 @ 10:52 PM
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privatisation costs the citizen in the end...

they did it here in australia, and in england.

now all our utilities are thru the roof in costs, and more cost increases to come. private business only exists for profits

government assets belong to the people



posted on May, 10 2011 @ 09:07 AM
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I think it's an interesting proposition. Anyone else have any input? Is this a good precedent? Or is it as the dude above says, selling of 'our' assets?



posted on May, 10 2011 @ 09:10 AM
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I'm ready to sell the entire federal government. Let the states be united, but soveirgn. Funny how Obama has adopted the political philosophy of his opponents in the election.



posted on May, 10 2011 @ 09:04 PM
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Originally posted by earthdude
Funny how Obama has adopted the political philosophy of his opponents in the election.


How so? Can you expand on that? Which of his political opponents are you referring to?



posted on May, 10 2011 @ 09:09 PM
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China says - thank you velly much for all the cheap land!



posted on May, 10 2011 @ 09:11 PM
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The only ones I could figure would be the opponents in his own party.

I noticed in TX they are selling off TONS of stuff at PanTex. This is slightly odd because PanTex is the only nuclear dis-assembly plant in the US. Thought to be one of the most dangerous areas for a terrorist to hit.



posted on May, 10 2011 @ 10:01 PM
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explore the map to see what's available in your state!

www.whitehouse.gov...



posted on May, 10 2011 @ 10:06 PM
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I probably should make a new thread just for the info presented on the gov website. That's a whole lot of property for sale, some in national forests!



posted on May, 10 2011 @ 10:11 PM
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Great china will buy it.



posted on May, 10 2011 @ 10:13 PM
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go watch that stallone movie called eye see you that place is wicked cool.

unless they are selling those i am not interested.

in all reality the fed may own them but they should revert to the states themselves its their land confiscated by the fed.

any proceeds should be going to those states and as such its hardlly against socialism its straight up socialism

taking the land and the proceeds and keeping it.

edit on 10-5-2011 by neo96 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 10 2011 @ 10:13 PM
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How did government come to "own" this land in the first place?

What Constitutional authorization do they have to own it?



posted on May, 10 2011 @ 10:15 PM
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reply to post by ViperChili
 


eminent domain where the government say screw you im takin what i want.

thats how



posted on May, 10 2011 @ 10:15 PM
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reply to post by ViperChili
 


Imminent domain, of course. They took it, mainly from the Indians.



posted on May, 10 2011 @ 10:17 PM
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Originally posted by neo96
go watch that stallone movie called eye see you that place is wicked cool.

unless they are selling those i am not interested.

in all reality the fed may own them but they should revert to the states themselves its their land confiscated by the fed.

any proceeds should be going to those states and as such its hardlly against socialism its straight up socialism

taking the land and the proceeds and keeping it.



An interesting point. Although it sounds like the government wont really be making money on the selling of the property, its more than they save the only it takes to maintain the structures. If the state had to maintain the properties they would likely be losing money too.


The Obama administration on Wednesday fleshed out its previously announced plan to save taxpayer dollars by selling off unneeded federal property, posting for the first time an online state-by-state map itemizing excess facilities.

Officials also released draft legislation aimed at overcoming the often-parochial political resistance to proposed sales by empowering an independent board of civilian experts in a process similar to the Defense Department's Base Realignment and Closure Commission.....

He acknowledged, however, that many of the properties -- which range from warehouses to office complexes -- have little commercial value. The savings would come from the government no longer paying energy and other maintenance costs.


www.govexec.com...



posted on May, 10 2011 @ 10:20 PM
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Originally posted by ViperChili
How did government come to "own" this land in the first place?

What Constitutional authorization do they have to own it?


Interesting question. I would imagine it differs on a case-by-case basis. In some cases, eminent domain, in others, i suspect they pruchased it.

heres an example of the lands and buildings available:


Of all the terms used in this map that deserve a full definition, most important is what is the definition of an "excess property"? Excess properties can be any number of things: from office buildings to laboratories to storage sheds and warehouses. Excess property is property that an agency has identified as no longer needed for mission or program performance. When a building is "excess" it means that it can be offered to other Federal agencies. Even buildings that once served a humanitarian purpose, like family housing or schools, may be long-abandoned or out of use. When no need is found by a fellow Federal agency for the property, it then becomes "surplus." Surplus property is what is typically sold or disposed outside of the Federal Government. Looking at the map, one may notice that some of the properties are inside of a national park, forest or otherwise protected natural resource. The identification of excess assets on park land or land identified as a preservation district does not mean that the Administration will be selling our natural treasures; we are trying to maintain our national parks and forests in a way that is more efficient and reduces the expense for the American people without affecting the commitment to the safeguarding of our public lands. Properties whose location is sensitive, such as Department of Defense installations, are not represented on this map, but will go through the same review process. Here are the different real property uses associated with these three categories, as defined by the GSA:

Real Property Use Definition Agriculture Land under cultivation for food or fiber production. All Other Properties that cannot be classified elsewhere. Communications Systems Telephone and telegraph lines, data cables, radio towers, and other communications-related properties Dormitories / Barracks Buildings primarily used for housing individuals (without families/dependents). Family Housing Buildings primarily used as housing for families/dependents. Includes apartment houses, single houses, row houses, public housing, military personnel housing, Federal employee housing, and housing for institutional personnel. Flood Control and Navigation Land used for flood control and navigation projects Harbors and Ports Docks, piers, wharves, jetties and breakwaters, and other harbor, port, or coastal facilities. Hospital Buildings used primarily for furnishing in-patient diagnosis and treatment under physician supervision and having 24-hour-a-day registered graduate nursing services. This category also includes medical laboratories used for routine testing. This category excludes buildings used directly in basic or applied medical research. Industrial Buildings specifically designed and primarily used for production or manufacturing, such as the production or manufacture of ammunition, aircraft, ships, vehicles, electronic equipment, fish production, chemicals, aluminum, and magnesium. Included are buildings that house utility plants or utility system components such as pump stations or valves. Industrial (other than buildings) Structures and facilities (other than buildings) used for production or manufacturing, such as sliding shipways, retaining basins, and pipelines. Institutional Land used for institutional purposes such as hospitals, prisons, schools, libraries, chapels, and museums. Laboratories Buildings used directly in basic or applied research in the sciences (including medicine) and in engineering, such as medical laboratories; meteorological research laboratories; and buildings used in designing, developing, and testing of prototypes and processes for chemistry and physics. This category excludes medical or industrial laboratories used for routine testing. Monuments and Memorials Federal monuments, memorials, and statues. Museum Buildings used for the housing and/or display of tangible objects or collections for the purpose of displaying said objects or collections for public view and benefit on a regular basis. Navigation and Traffic Aids Includes buildings that house aircraft or ship navigation and traffic aids, such as beacon lights, antenna systems, ground control approach systems, and obstruction lighting. Office Buildings primarily used for office space or military headquarters. Office Building Locations Land containing office buildings or future planned office buildings, to include military headquarters buildings. Other Institutional Uses Buildings used for institutional purposes other than schools, hospitals, and prisons, such as libraries, chapels, and out-patient clinics. This category also includes food preparation and dining facilities, buildings housing entertainment and recreational activities, and visitor’s centers. Parking Structures Independent structures for non-residential parking of more than two vehicles. Power Development and Distribution Land used for power development and distribution projects. Railroads Tracks, bridges, tunnels, and fuel or water stations servicing railroads. Reclamation and Irrigation Land used for reclamation and irrigation projects. Recreational (other than buildings) Outdoor recreational structures such as athletic fields and courts, stadiums, golf courses, and ski slopes. Research and Development Land used directly in basic or applied research, such as science, medicine, and engineering Research and Development (other than Laboratories) Structures and facilities used directly in basic or applied research in science, medicine, and engineering, such as facilities used in the design, development, and testing of prototypes and processes and space and aeronautics research and development. Excludes facilities used for routine testing. Roads and Bridges Federally-owned highways, roads, related culverts, and connecting bridges. Includes surfaced and unsurfaced roads within National parks and forests, military installations, and other Federal installations. School Buildings used primarily for formally organized instruction, such as schools for dependent children of Federal employees, Indian schools, and military training buildings including specialized training facilities. Service Buildings used for service activities, such as maintenance and repair shops, dry cleaning plants, post exchange stores, airport hangars, and buildings primarily used for vehicle maintenance and repair. Service (other than buildings) Structures used for maintenance and repair, such as underground fueling systems, vehicle washing and greasing facilities, aircraft bore sight ranges, guided missile maintenance facilities, and ship repair structures. Storage Land used primarily for supply depots and other storage. Storage (other than buildings) Storage tanks, silos, igloos, underground vaults, and open storage improved areas. This category includes water reservoirs and POL storage tanks. Utility Systems Heating, sewage, water, and electrical systems that serve several buildings or other structures of an installation. Includes heating plants and related steam and gas lines, sewage disposal plants, storm and sanitary sewer lines, water treatment plants, wells, pump houses, reservoirs, and pipelines. Also includes electrical substations, standby or auxiliary power plants, lighting structures, and conduits. Vacant Land not being used. Warehouses Buildings used for storage, such as ammunition storage, covered sheds, and buildings primarily used for storage of vehicles or materials. Also included are underground or earth covered ammunition storage bunkers and magazines. This category excludes water reservoirs and POL storage tanks which are storage structures. Weapons Ranges Ranges where weapons are fired and areas where explosives are detonated.



posted on May, 10 2011 @ 10:22 PM
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reply to post by incrediblelousminds
 


well he says that but i am telling people this

when it comes to land and an expanding population and the urban sprawls land always has and always will have commercial value.

if the feds dont want the financial responsibilites to those propertys then just let the states have them and let them do what they will.

what i am saying is the states should have the first call on whats done hold or sell the feds still win because they are no longer responsible and the land reverts back to the rightful owners.



posted on May, 10 2011 @ 10:44 PM
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reply to post by neo96
 


fair point. if they dont want to deal with the costs of maintaining these sites, let the states pay for upkeep.

That's assuming the states even want a bunch of properties they cant afford either.



posted on May, 10 2011 @ 11:09 PM
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It's a wonderful idea. I love it, actually. Selling off government land that has gone unused for 200 years is a great plan and will open up opportunities for businesses and individuals that want to make a place for themselves.

But until Obama gets rid of socialized programs that he created and supports, he will still be a Socialist. Until he gets rid of DHS and the CIA he will still be a Fascist. Both of those together make a Totalitarian, and he and his minions in Congress are the most dangerous criminals in America.

/TOa



posted on May, 11 2011 @ 11:58 AM
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Originally posted by incrediblelousminds

Originally posted by earthdude
Funny how Obama has adopted the political philosophy of his opponents in the election.


How so? Can you expand on that? Which of his political opponents are you referring to?

Republicans have pushed to privatize everything. I checked out some of these properties and they are very minimal. It looks like this is just for show, not much for sale. I have my eyes on a 125 sq ft building owned by the Forest Service. Yes, I am buying a federal outhouse.





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