Not your usual suspect: Dagestan, page 1

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Topic started on 9-5-2011 @ 05:03 PM by Itop1

Tonight i was thinking to myself how topics on ATS are usually based around the usual suspects, US, UK, Iran, Israel, Iraq.... etc but most people overlook or dont even realize that we are not the only people fighting terrorists.

I know a great deal of people think Al'Qaeda is centered around the US, UK, Iraq, Afghanistan and some even think its all orchestrated by the US but its not, A lot of news just isnt broadcast by our media so i wanted to take this moment to talk about a country which is rarely or if ever talked about and some people may never have heard of it: Dagestan.

Dagestan although not a country in itself, it is a Republic of Russia and has its own president and is currently battling alqaeda/taliban trained islamic extremists that want to take over and impose sharia law, Dagestan neighbours Chechnya.

Here are a few interesting videos for you to watch.

First the one from BBC has quite an informative video on the situation in Dagestan: www.bbc.co.uk...

Another video

YouTube Link

Russian Spetsnaz fighting Islamic extremists in Dagestan

YouTube Link

When you look and see how widespread al'qaeda are it is quite daunting, to think that these islamic extremists are fighting to claim land and impose strict sharia law, i believe this is what we will be fighting not too far from now in our own countries, US and the UK amongst others, already some groups are already trying to impose sharia law in the UK, and i understand that these extreme groups do not represent the majority of muslims but they are a growing threat and more and more young muslims are being brainwashed and being trained to fight against us.

I hope you enjoy a bit of a different read

edit on 9-5-2011 by Itop1 because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 9-5-2011 @ 05:10 PM by Protostellar

I bet there is close to 330 million Americans who have never seen this. Thanks for bringing this to ATS. It's nice to see a useful posting once in a while.

reply posted on 9-5-2011 @ 05:36 PM by trollz

Very cool, I've never heard of Dagestan.

reply posted on 9-5-2011 @ 05:41 PM by vermonster

al qaida litterally translates to "the database"

it is not an organized group at all. it is merely a list or database of muslims on cia payroll.

google it

reply posted on 9-5-2011 @ 06:14 PM by lifeissacred

Interesting part of the world I don't see why Russia don't just give the region independence and then if they're worried about them being right next door then just heavily fortify the borders. Seems to make more sense than staying in a constant low level war in these regions.

edit on 9-5-2011 by lifeissacred because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 9-5-2011 @ 10:47 PM by ShadowScholar

reply to post by lifeissacred

So if someones invades your country or tries to change the government through force, they should be allowed to take that area and create their own independant state and you should just get out of the way?

On topic, I am fairly familiar with Dagestan, I have some friends who were born there and still travel back. It's a dangerous place. As seen in the videos above.

You can't even really search it up on google maps!

reply posted on 10-5-2011 @ 12:30 AM by LordBaskettIV

This is old hat to anyone who is familiar with the Chechen war, North and South Ossetia, Bosnia, ect. It's all also very well documented. There is video of the lead up to the various wars including stuff from inside the governments. All these regions have pockets of muslims(caucasian not middle eastern). However, as muslims do, they go and support fellow muslims in times of war(mujahadeen). They brought some of the more radical islam with them though. There was genocide commited on both sides, however the radical islam didn't really spread until ethnic muslims were basicly slaughtered en mass even upon surrender. There is video of all of this, even on you tube. The united states backed all these guys in the mid 90's(more support than actual help). It was never al-queda that infiltrated these areas. The men that went to the caucasas are no different than the guys that work at blackwater or any other merc unit. Almost all of them have been killed too, you can watch videos dedicated to them all over you-tube. Chechen rebels hit Russia almost once a year still.

reply posted on 10-5-2011 @ 08:16 AM by lifeissacred

reply to post by ShadowScholar

They aren't invading Russia, these Caucasian republics are populated with peoples who don't and never have considered themselves Russian. They are seperatists not invaders.

reply posted on 10-5-2011 @ 10:32 PM by LordBaskettIV

reply to post by lifeissacred

I'm not saying it like they are invading Russia, as they are not. However there are still chechen fighters that attack russia due to attacks of towns and villages with massive casualties on non combatants.

Here is the actual site for chechen rebels: kavkazcenter.com

They are posting from a combat viewpoint. But straight from the horses mouth.

reply posted on 11-5-2011 @ 01:53 AM by ShadowScholar

reply to post by lifeissacred

I never mentioned Russia, plus they are already seperate with their own president etc.

These are muslims trying to spread sharia states, this is not being a seperatist or an invader, this is trying to change the government of a place through force.

This is wrong, it is not some freedom fighter struggle nonsense. Dagestan should not just roll over and let itself be over run by violent fanatics.

reply posted on 11-5-2011 @ 02:23 AM by nortefunk14

This conflict isn't as black/whites as some would want you to believe, not everything's based on Islamic principles because their cultures are heavenly base on clans, more so even than Afghanistan. The Chechens and others going at it with the Russians also goes back hundreds of years, and during Stalin's rein Muslims in Southern Russia were deported to Siberia for example. Several states of Southern Russia have slipped in and out of Moscow's colonial influence for centuries too, so I would still partly consider it a Separatist issue. They tend to be Sufi(as was the Ottoman Empire), and not as dedicated to Islamic causes, but with the successful ambushes fought by foreign Arab fighters in the past few years Wahhabis and Salafis are gaining more influence. But take note Southern Russia during the Soviet Union traditionally produced some of the best Generals and fighters, serving from WWII all the way up to the Soviet-Afghanistan War. Some modern famous/infamous figures include Ruslan Gelayev, Ibn Al-Khattab, and Shamil Basayev they were big hitters because they defiantly did damage on Russia's moral. As for evil events that have happened, one defiantly has to be aware of Beslan, etc. Hopefully now that activity has slowed down some bit maybe Chechnya, Dagheistan, and Russia can live in peace. I am aware though that idiot Doku Umarav during infighting between different groups/clans has declared all of the Caucsus as his Caliphate, guess times are changing.

edit on 11-5-2011 by nortefunk14 because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 11-5-2011 @ 09:03 AM by lifeissacred

reply to post by ShadowScholar

Absolutely agree with you, however if you look to the poster above me he explains the history behind this issue which is what I was getting at. Fighting against Russia in these parts is nothing new, there is a history of war between the Caucasian peoples and Russia. Though many of the seperatists now fight under the influence of a modern Islamist ideology they are still motivated largely by seperatism and nationalism alongside Islamism.

reply posted on 11-5-2011 @ 11:26 AM by ShadowScholar

reply to post by lifeissacred

I agree there's more to it, alot more. But you can't let someone with a different ideology come and control people through force, if we just went ahead and let that happen then we'd all be screwed over.

Dagestan is already seperate in so much as it has it's own president etc. the groups who are fighting are clearly minorities against the will of the general populace otherwise they could simply vote their people into power.

The minority should not be given power because they have the guns. Many people in Dagestan are muslim and don't go causing trouble like this and don't appreciate this nonsense. It is a minority forcing their views on the many, and the government shouldn't roll over and give them anything.

Give them an inch and they'll take a yard etc.

reply posted on 13-5-2011 @ 01:06 AM by LordBaskettIV

Originally posted by ShadowScholar
reply to post by lifeissacred

this is trying to change the government of a place through force.

This is wrong, it is not some freedom fighter struggle nonsense. Dagestan should not just roll over and let itself be over run by violent fanatics.

Are we as americans not doing this same thing right now in Afghanistan and Iraq? We can't support actions based entirely on political/religious/ideoligical desires.

reply posted on 13-5-2011 @ 08:30 PM by ShadowScholar

reply to post by LordBaskettIV

Americans are doing it also, and yes they're also wrong. I never agreed with what they did anywhere to my knowledge.

I'm not blaming anyone specifically, i.e. islamists, I'm saying in reference to one post above, you shouldn't just think, oh someone wants my land and is taking it through force, well I'll just let them have it and then they'll settle down.

This was the appeasement used on Hitler and guess what? He decided to start invading after he couldn't just assimilate other countries any more. Inch and a mile.

Countries/groups shouldn't invade other places or try to usurp their own governments through force, otherwise they should be met with their own tactics. Nuff said.

reply posted on 17-5-2011 @ 09:43 PM by LordBaskettIV

reply to post by ShadowScholar

I disagree on the Hitler comment. Originally, the caucasus have had a small white muslim community for a long while. When wars started, and ethnic cleansing started to be reported. Militant muslims then went to help the other muslims and spread wahabism or whatever it is.

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