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Are we allowed to know the date of the Lord’s return?

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posted on May, 9 2011 @ 11:24 AM
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**PLEASE READ FIRST** I am not here to debate whether Christ exists or not so take that discussion elsewhere if that is the purpose of you viewing this thread. With that said...

Does not the Bible say:

36 "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone. 37 "For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah. Matthew 24:36-37 NASU

One could argue here that Jesus was not talking about the Rapture, but the Second Coming here since previously in Verse 15 he spoke about the Abomination of Desolation which will occur at Midtribulation and in Verse 29 the Tribulation is again mentioned, which comes after the Rapture. Even so, it looks like Verses 36 through the end of the chapter (Verse 51) form a pericope that is speaking solely about the Rapture.

The verb used in Verse 36 is the Greek eido (to see) which has the third person singular perfect tense form of oiden (he has seen) from which we get the Latin word video. The translation no one “knows” is linguistically possible being derived from no one “has known” coming originally from no one “has seen”. Since this was said by Jesus on Wednesday (12 Nisan 33 AD), he meant that up to that day no one had seen the day or the hour. This was true, but it does not preclude our knowing it now. Here is why.

Speaking about putting a lamp under a basket, Jesus said: For nothing is hidden that will not become evident, nor any thing secret that will not be known and come to light (Lk 8:17). When speaking to the sleeping church of Sardis (which is true of many in the church today), Jesus said: Therefore if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come to you. This means that all secrets will be known, but not to those that “do not wake up”. So wake up, O church of Laodicia! Finally, in giving the Great Commission, Jesus said to the apostles: It is not for you to know times or epochs which the Father has fixed by His own authority… This was true 2000 years ago, but continuing the sentence, Jesus added: but you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you… Concerning Scripture, the Holy Spirit has three functions: to reveal, to inspire, and to illuminate. The power the church received after Pentecost includes the illumination or understanding of the Word. Those not asleep at the wheel will have a keen understanding of the day and the hour.

Despite having said this, I still do not know the exact day or hour of the Rapture. Assuming that Jesus was talking about the Rapture in Matthew 24:36-51, then in light of what I have said previously, we have to consider the date and the time of day. The seven Jewish feasts show that Rosh Hashanah (Feast of Trumpets) occurs on the first of Tishri. Two things put the exact solar date in ambiguity: First, modern Judaism celebrates the New Year on two successive days. So is it the first or second day? Secondly and more importantly, what year are we talking about? Even though the prophecy stated “After a year from the appearance of the Anti-Christ, the Rapture will occur,” it could be more than a year, i.e., the Arabic word for after (ba’ad) like the Hebrew word (achar) in Daniel 9:26 (Then after the 62 weeks, the Messiah will be cut off…) could mean long after. The allegory of the Jewish wedding as seen in Matthew 25:1-13, however, argues against a long period of time.

With the appearance of the Anti-Christ, the traditional Jewish wedding, which began 2000 years ago with the death of the Groom as the price the Father had to pay, now unfolds. The betrothed will now be put to the test. During this period the groom is not allowed to speak publically with his bride but may do so in secret or through an intermediary, so Jesus accomplishes this with an intermediary, the Holy Spirit, or by himself in secret. The groom is also frequently asked the date of the marriage, to which he would give the standard reply: “No man knows the day or the hour, only my father.” This betrothal period would normally last from one to two years, long enough to prove that the bride was not with child and that she had prepared for the marriage. So too will be the testing period for the church under the Anti-Christ. In preparation for the fetching his Bride at her house for the Rapture, Jesus said at the Upper Room Discourse on the eve of his death: I go to prepare a place for you. This he did in his Father’s house in Heaven. There each member of his church has a chamber or chador awaiting him. The groom will then fetch his bride. This Jesus Christ will do at the Last Trump on the Feast of Rosh Hashanah. The church will be purified. With glorified and immortal bodies there will be a brief ceremony in Heaven with two witnesses and some guests. The church will live there for at least the seven years of the Tribulation. After this, the Jewish groom would then take the bride to his own house. This will be fulfilled by the Second Coming when the Messiah takes his Bride to Earth (And the armies which are in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, were following Him on white horses.) on the Feast of Tabernacles to celebrate the marriage feast per Revelation 19:6-8. This will officially inaugurate the Kingdom. Since it is the responsibility of the groom to provide for his wife for ever, following the Millennium, Jesus Christ will move his church to the New Jerusalem in the eternal order as seen in Revelation 21:2 and 21:10.

The foregoing is another indication that the Betrothal under the Anti-Christ will be an intense period lasting for one or two years--then the Rapture. I anxiously await the Betrothal because of what follows.

I wrote in The Anti-Christ and the Rapture that from the allegory in Genesis 24, Isaac lifting up his eyes in Verse 63 “toward evening” gives an indication of the time of day. This brings up a question of the diurnal timing of the Rapture. Will it occur toward evening everywhere in the world, in which case it will be like a rolling wave sweeping meridianally around the Earth with the shofar blasts going before it? On the other hand, it could be the timing only in Jerusalem, in which case some may be raptured as much as 12 hours earlier according to the clock or 12 hours later yet in actuality all being raptured together simultaneously.

So there is some room for contrary opinions regarding the day and the hour for the Rapture. But this is not the case for the Second Coming. Once the Great Tribulation begins with the signing of a firm covenant, there will be seven years until the Second Coming.

As the ritual count down of the shofar blasts begins, it will be a time of soul searching for those who are not sure of their salvation. For others, their anticipation will be palpable and their expectations unbridled knowing that the crown is nigh. But for the majority it will be a time of indifference or amusement.

edit on 9-5-2011 by Artorius because: (no reason given)




posted on May, 9 2011 @ 12:26 PM
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kudos!

well done!

(Eccl 8:5-6 KJV) Whoso keepeth the commandment shall feel no evil thing: and a wise man's heart discerneth both time and judgment. [6] Because to every purpose there is time and judgment, therefore the misery of man is great upon him.

Amos 3:7 (King James Version)

Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.



posted on May, 9 2011 @ 12:30 PM
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Nope are not allowed. S&F Its not for his saftey for the saftey of herd...



posted on May, 9 2011 @ 01:19 PM
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reply to post by ICEKOHLD
 


You are right and thank you. I think its almost impossible to nail down the EXACT date of each event described in revelation. Although, I believe God speaks through holy and chosen people to tell them what the year might be like. A preacher named Enrique Lopez(Link to his Bio) came to my church around late January early March. He told my church this year would be filled with massive EQs, massive storms, and large amounts of tornadoes i quote from his message to us "Weather like we've never seen before heralding the soon return of the lord". Then days later, BOOM Japan happened...then a couple months, later BOOM America is hit with more than 200 tornadoes in a 2 day period...now we have record flooding all over Mississippi. I believe if you are called by God to know his plans and stay in a deep relationship with Christ as this man is, he will reveal himself to you. But usually it won't be precise as to the exact date/time of day unless he wishes it so.



posted on May, 9 2011 @ 01:22 PM
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reply to post by Artorius
 


I had always heard "Not allowed to know". However, I didn't do your research!

From what you have here, it looks like the latter observation would be more accurate. Also, seems like something that would be done to allow you to prepare.

Also, that sentence keeps the "I will just predict it as everyday so it won't happen" types at bay



posted on May, 9 2011 @ 01:29 PM
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reply to post by Artorius
 


yes...not trying to toot my horn but i am very very in tune with Him. i feel as if I am of Christ's lineage. like He is in me so deeply that I am Him. make sense? not trying to compare myself to Him for i could never be as great.

i know, in my heart, that He has risen. He is here. if you click the link in my signature, it's a thread i started a couple weeks ago. i'm a weirdo and feel very strange things coming. in fact, this thread has over 50 pages of people responding, some arguing (of course) but most agreeing that something big is just around the river bend.

i think that no one will know before "it's time" but i think at the moment it happens...all will know it is happening. with all the variables in the human consciousaness and the universe in general...i doubt that God Himself has an actual time chosen in advance. He may. i just don't think so. God doesn't run on time. time only exists here. so...Christ's return, i doubt, is a timed event. i think it will be when God decides "it's time". i think that time is drawing very near which would explain why so many of us are feeling time speeding up. deep down...we know the gig is up. so we're rushing to clean up before dady comes home...
edit on 5/9/11 by ICEKOHLD because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 9 2011 @ 01:32 PM
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reply to post by Ophiuchus 13
 


I wanted to post this because of all the hubbub about May 21st being the end of days. Harold Camping seems like he loves Christ and believes whole heartedly that he has heard from him. I read on a thread hes invested 3 million dollars into advertisement which he has no profit through. IDK how true that is but regardless, I just can't believe God would only tell one person such an exact date...it happened in the bible a few times but wouldn't other pastors and Godly connected people feel the same thing?? Why aren't they then??...I feel like God would make it universally aware to all prophets, pastors, preachers etc. etc. It just doesn't make sense



posted on May, 9 2011 @ 01:34 PM
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Originally posted by Artorius
I just can't believe God would only tell one person such an exact date...it happened in the bible a few times but wouldn't other pastors and Godly connected people feel the same thing?? Why aren't they then??...I feel like God would make it universally aware to all prophets, pastors, preachers etc. etc. It just doesn't make sense


I would imagine it is because "God" wants you to work for yourself


And, "God's" thought process is going to be a bit out of reach. Ignorance is not always bliss, here is the proof


--EDIT

Ignorance of the end times!! No other type!
edit on 5/9/2011 by adigregorio because: Clarification



posted on May, 9 2011 @ 01:42 PM
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reply to post by Artorius
 

Excellent question, with a well researched and thought out attempt at an answer. I have always believed that we were not supposed to know. I believe it was set this way for our own protection. Consider that if we did know the date, some people might delay their salvation until the day before his return. The Lord would know that the person was insincere of course, so that person would lose eternity when he might have been saved. We would all like to know the date, but are we better off not knowing???



posted on May, 9 2011 @ 02:39 PM
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reply to post by ICEKOHLD
 


Hey I saw that thread before!!..very well said btw haha. I believe it comes down to preparation. If you are ready then theres no worries if Christ comes back/the Apocalypse happens tomorrow, you will be with Him for eternity. I definitely understand how you feel man about being one with Christ. That is the meaning of the preparation I speak of...there is that grand sense of something brewing for sure based off the weather and current events in the middle east . Don't know exactly when, what, or how but it will be soon and most importantly God is in control.

edit on 9-5-2011 by Artorius because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 9 2011 @ 02:46 PM
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Originally posted by sonofliberty1776
reply to post by Artorius
 

.I have always believed that we were not supposed to know. I believe it was set this way for our own protection. Consider that if we did know the date, some people might delay their salvation until the day before his return. The Lord would know that the person was insincere of course, so that person would lose eternity when he might have been saved. We would all like to know the date, but are we better off not knowing???


Very good point. I think your right on the mark.



posted on May, 10 2011 @ 02:50 PM
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can't prove Christ existed.

can't prove Christ was divine.

couldn't prove it was Christ if he did come back - How would we know, what would he look like?



posted on May, 10 2011 @ 02:52 PM
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reply to post by awake_and_aware
 


Apparently he might be carrying an RPG or a grenade launcher





posted on May, 10 2011 @ 03:34 PM
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Originally posted by awake_and_aware
can't prove Christ existed.

can't prove Christ was divine.

couldn't prove it was Christ if he did come back - How would we know, what would he look like?







Your off topic and looking for an argument. I did not make this thread to argue the existence of Christ (as I stated in the opening line) so take your trolling elsewhere.



posted on May, 10 2011 @ 03:40 PM
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reply to post by Artorius
 


Well how could you ever prove Christ has come back if you can't prove Christ existed to begin with. Furthermore how do you know what Christ will look like?

How would we know it was Jesus and not just some insane preacher on the street?

Even if Christ IS true, i don't think there's anyway of saying "that's him!"

Apologies for my abrupt, unlettered reply.

Peace.



posted on May, 10 2011 @ 03:42 PM
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reply to post by awake_and_aware
 


To be fair that is not the topic of the thread. Whether of not JC was real is moot. The topic is are we to know the "day of return"

Now if you had said: "Can't know the day, because JC wasn't real." Then you would have had something, instead it is veiled attacks on the religion. And if you deny it, calling someones beliefs "not real" is an attack.

I still stick with my original sentiment. We don't get to know because "God" wants us to learn for ourselves.



posted on May, 10 2011 @ 03:48 PM
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reply to post by adigregorio
 


I take your point. But by my very argument.....

How do you affirm Christ's return? The guy with the white robe and the black beard preaching words from the New Testament?

As the OP states:

Are we allowed to know the date of the Lord’s return?


Are we ALLOWED or would it be possible?
edit on 10/5/11 by awake_and_aware because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 10 2011 @ 03:59 PM
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reply to post by awake_and_aware
 


Arguing semtantics changes nothing.

Whether or not the Lord can be ID'ed is moot.

The question is are we allowed to know when he returns. Not, are we allowed to know who he is.


(I can argue semantics too!)

I am not a Christian. I actually have quite a bit of negative emotions regarding that religion. One of the main reasons I came in here, a sad way to offer my apologies from another thread.

And, last but not least, Christians (most I assume) know that their ideas are based on faith. I don't think they need to have me telling them every chance I get. (IE No proof of JC, Can "God" lift rocks, etc) But, I see your point as well. And if it is indeed in "good" as you imply, then I am out of place for gibber jabbering.

(PS I use "God" because it would be rude of me to call Him by the name you folks have for Him, especially since I do not believe the same. So that is a bit of respect (Someone mentioned it came off as assy, super sorry)



posted on May, 10 2011 @ 04:30 PM
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1Now, brothers, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, 2for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.

4But you, brothers, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief. 5You are all sons of the light and sons of the day. We do not belong to the night or to the darkness. 6So then, let us not be like others, who are asleep, but let us be alert and self-controlled. 7For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk, get drunk at night. 8But since we belong to the day, let us be self-controlled, putting on faith and love as a breastplate, and the hope of salvation as a helmet. 9For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. 10He died for us so that, whether we are awake or asleep, we may live together with him. 11Therefore encourage one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing.

What the Bible is saying is, the godless will not know. It is also saying the date is of no concern. It is the times that are of concern. When it happens, all the enlightened who know the Son is the truth, will know it is exactly time. The enlightened will be awake and in control.

Keeping on the path of rightousness is key. If you decide I always have tomorrow, he will then come like a thief in the night. He will cut you in pieces and put you with the hypocrites. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Your Lord is asking you to be rightous all the time. It is not important to know the day. It's important to turn to him with your iniquities and repent. Change your life and walk with him. Walk with him always, don't procrastinate.
edit on 10-5-2011 by addygrace because: color change



posted on May, 10 2011 @ 04:34 PM
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reply to post by adigregorio
 



Arguing semtantics changes nothing.


I'm not arguing semantics. Even if you were "ALLOWED" to know, how would you know? And by what authority grants you "authorisation" for it to be known?


I am not a Christian. I actually have quite a bit of negative emotions regarding that religion. One of the main reasons I came in here, a sad way to offer my apologies from another thread.


I didn't assume so. My arguments don't require anyone to profess their beliefs. If i assume Jesus exists, i still want to know how he could be spotted....



(IE No proof of JC, Can "God" lift rocks, etc)


I'm not trying to argue omnipotence or any religion.


(PS I use "God" because it would be rude of me to call Him by the name you folks have for Him, especially since I do not believe the same. So that is a bit of respect (Someone mentioned it came off as assy, super sorry)


Again, all i'm asking is: How would you be "allowed"? And furthermore, how would you affirm it is Jesus Christ. Any person could self-fulfil the prophecies of the return.

PS.

Can "God" lift rocks, etc


Off topic but It's important to note the only "miracle" is the fact that there are no miracles; the sun doesn't miraculously stop in the sky, the laws of gravity don't cease when a child falls from a building, No person has shown an ability to cure people by touch, time doesn't reverse.




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