Do you really want to achieve enlightenment?

I've never really bought into the idea of it taking hundreds of lifetimes to achieve enlightenment, I always thought it was very possible in this lifetime, all that is required is studying philosophy and metaphysics and meditation and an open mind. But with that said I've been "achieving" enlightenment for about 8 years now. It's not just a new lifestyle choice.

I love the way you say, "just play along". It is easy to say this is just a stage and we are players, but when it hits you that in truth, this is all bull# and we need to play out our role, you grow up. I went bonkers one day when I realized the real truth of this, I could not come down for two days.

Another thing then happens when you then let go of this delusional existence and it messes one up somewhat. When you are free, you become an observer and your consciousness is released. Be careful here. I am a strong man whom has done a lot. Yet one morning I reached out in concern for the downtrodden, in this case abused women. The pain was overwhelming, I almost crumbled. It was as though I were them, an extension of myself.

This release coupled with an understanding that one does not project expectations, only observe and know all is possible, allows odd things to happen. Finding lost items for instance, like manifesting which is really a quantum thing. Here also I found problems of learning. It took me a day to finally re-ground myself into my body after a release and an extension of the conscious part which is somehow our real self. Now I don't judge, I just look inside of all people and find the part I can love.

Originally posted by splitlevel

Originally posted by User8911
reply to post by splitlevel

 

Afterall you live in a world of people and its very lonley being the only one who can see things for what they are.

I know how you feel, there are stages of enlightenment this is the first stage, learning how to live in a society of ignorant fools. You will later come to yet another understanding. This understanding will help you deal with living in society. This understanding is that everything is connected and if you have obtained the gift of enlightenment you must spread the knowledge in an enlightened way, dont be discouraged or let your emotions control you.

reply to post by filosophia


Or maybe this is your hundredth life time!

But what is enlightenment to begin with? How do you define it and to what purpose do you seek it? People have a herd mentality and tend to flock to whatever seems to be the trendiest or most palatable of presentations concerning the quest for enlightenment without stopping to consider why they pursue it to begin with.

This would explain, in part, the multi-million dollar industry based on self-help materials alone. People are drawn to mysterious things they don't understand and they sometimes pay dearly for this if they are ignorant, financially or otherwise (Heaven's Gate, Jonestown anyone?)

I don't believe there's a formula or a 'way'. I think it's a personal journey that each must undertake on their own through keen and clear observation of the world around them, not through rote memorization and regurgitation of someone else's ideas or imitating the endless array of so-called 'gurus' and 'holy' men that populate the landscape today.

I believe enlightenment comes in the most subtle ways from the most unlikely of places when you are least looking for it.

Just my two bits, for what it's worth...

i dont know what else to say except Thankyou Very Much to splitlevel and jimirie. it is a great reminder of the only game worth pursuing.

Yes I want to achieve enlightenment, but I doubt that I would ever done it; simply because I so love my family.....I cannot abandon that one particular mortal trivial..........if my family achieve it with me then I will.

You don't exist. That's enlightenment in 3 words.

reply to post by Imhotepsol


Lol...too bad you still have to pay for your stuff.....live on this rock like everyone else

Originally posted by splitlevel
A lot of people on this site, seem to enjoy the whole idea and staying on the road to possible enlightenment.
With some people im sure they genuinely wish to be enlightened but many others are simply adding the idea of the journey to their lives as nothing more than yet another "lifestlye choice". in otherwords it gives bored people or people who want to appear as interesting to others in their peer group something to talk about and base their identities on, which is irrelivent to me and i understand why peole want to live in this dilusional way.

Self help books are a billion dollar industry, generally telling people everything about themselves they already knew, but often forgot or didnt have the motivation to use these traits for "self improvement".
And so your book shelf is full and still you are no further to reaching enlightenment.
And for many this is irrelivent, the goal is not to reach enlightenment, afterall, what the hell would you do once you reached enlightenment? bang would go your identity as a mystical traveller, you would need to sell all your books and get a new set of friends.

So for those who really do want to be enlightened, I will tell you my experience.
I never read a book of any kind about any subject. This was because I knew by instinct that if there were a book or a teacher ever who had the answer to the meaning of life then everyone would know it and the world would be a utopia. knowing this, i rejected jesus, buddha and anyone else who people proclaim as saviours.
I meditated for years without realising what zen meditation was. i just knew instinctivley only I could awnser my own question.

then one day it hit me, out of the blue. the same feeling you get when you remember something you had forgotten all about. Exept a thousand times greater. You remember who you really are.
For those of you who have built an image for yourselves as mystic travellers and are convinced thats who you are, then the idea of waking up may be quite a disturbing one.
I understand people who want to stay asleep, believe me. I know whats it like to awaken, it took me a long time to reintergrate into daily life without seeing how deluded people around me are. Its not much fun seeing how everyone is living diluded lives and chasing an illusion to be happy. its not an easy place to be on the outside.
I now know who i am but have accepted that to live in society you need to play along, but atleast I know its all just a ridiculous game, but what else would I do otherwise...be a hermit in a cave.

edit on 8-5-2011 by splitlevel because: spelling mistakes

Why not live in a cave? Sounds like you're attached to your technological western lifestyle and making excuses for yourself.

reply to post by splitlevel

This was because I knew by instinct that if there were a book or a teacher ever who had the answer to the meaning of life then everyone would know it and the world would be a utopia.

Isn't it also possible that if a teacher existed in the world who knew all the answers, then only those who are ready to receive those answers would know of that teacher?

I know whats it like to awaken, it took me a long time to reintergrate into daily life without seeing how deluded people around me are. Its not much fun seeing how everyone is living diluded lives and chasing an illusion to be happy. its not an easy place to be on the outside.

If one realizes that this state of delusion is a necessary aspect on the journey towards enlightenment, then it is easy to accept others in the condition one finds them.

reply to post by splitlevel


Im sooo confused on this post from u....you have rejected everything "savior stamped" yet have had your eyes open to the EXACT thing Jesus taught...the lies of religion...the deceit in money and the never dying ambition for MORE...aka the american dream....So my confusion is this...not trying to preach or convert...just needing clarity....If you have found this answer...and seen the lies that abound...then wouldnt that tell you that there was something bigger going on? How are natural state is bombarded all the time by synthetic life desires? I just wonder what hope of justice you could possibly hold to while seeing the Matrix and yet believing there is NO saving grace...No true justice....My friend, if there is not hope...then what is there??

reply to post by mysticnoon


Very VERY well said friend!

reply to post by splitlevel


Westerners of the New Age variety, and some who embrace Eastern practices, tend to approach 'Enlightenment' from a position of 'Spiritual Materialism', reflecting their dominant culture's consumer values. Hence, 'Spirituality' is to be acquired, mastered, and consumed. Often, money must be spent (crystals, psychics, gurus, retreats to ashrams, etc). It goes without saying that the groups I reference are invariably white and middle to upper class.

If you see it as a way to get "high" then enligtenment is not for you.

I don't really get what you're going at OP. Apperently you make a pretty big statement about how futile every attempt to reach enlightment is, promoting not reading books and denying every teacher just playing along... If I had to choose who to deny between Jesus Buddha and you my choice isn't all that hard.

enlightenment is neither this or that
it has no reflection

The one eye cannot see it's own self

"No one person wakes up "

"it is a state of being"

"I am that which I seek "

Originally posted by the_0bserver85
Yes I want to achieve enlightenment, but I doubt that I would ever done it; simply because I so love my family.....I cannot abandon that one particular mortal trivial..........if my family achieve it with me then I will.

to gain insight, is to see that much of human beings pain "mental pain", which includes everything from stress, to envy to hatred and self hate, eating disorders, personality disorders, and many types of even worse mental illnesses. Some of which are said to be partly genetic and so its debatable wheather or not enlightenment can help some of these cases, like scitzofrenia, where people are in a dilision far beyond even the "normal dilusion most of us live in", the search for it can infact make some people a lot worse mentally.
However I do not have the statistics but I am fairly sure that the U.S.A. has by far the largest number of people who to one extent or another are on psychotropic drugs to maintain a level of sanity.
much of their mental problems are brought about throught their ego's and the reason so many americans suffer mentally and look for drugs to cure the condition, which only work temporarily, is because the drug fix is yet another materialistic goal and by its materialistic nature is can only be temporaty as the mind is not a material object to put a band aid over. material fixes only work on material objects. Just as a nice car will make you happy for a while, it doesnt last.

now as far as fearing you will no longer love your family if you gain insight. thats not tue at all.
what happens is you see that your family are all to one extent or another living as you lived, diluded.
You feel sorry for your family but you also love them and can now see the root of what causes them to suffer mentally, as everyone sufferes mentally to one extent or another. think of when people get dirogitory names called to them, they allow their ego to take offence and literally hurt themselves, they believe their ego is their core being, just as if you were sticking a knife into their flesh. to the point where peole who are bullied will sometimes, and now more often than ever, take their own lives. people compare themselves to images in magazines and TV, of a fake perfection and get depressed when they cant measure up etc, they get low self esteem, wind up in physically abusive situations and believe thats who they are an all they are worth. Whilst abusers abuse, because it makes their ego feel powerful to humiliate other people, yet another symptom of the diluded mind and cause for no end of suffering to mankind. you may base your identity on your career, only to lose you job and then have a break down...or lose your partner and have a break down.
Are we not in a culture that promotes "LOVE" as noting more than another material object to be pursuded and ego boost "Oh i love you dear...do you love me too?" etc, etc, no wonder so many realtionships are now just a merry go round of interchangable partners....real love has nothing to do with this B.S. that has been fed to everyone.

this is all caused by the dillusion that outside forces controll who we are.
once you realise this and more importantly you feel it, then you have clarity. once this happens you know that it is the root cause of many of the ills in the world. And when you know this you want to change it, tahts why I am on this message board. believe it or not. its out of love for may brothers and sisters. i am no better than them, no different what so ever, just another person and that is the main message.
if we all got to grips with this unity there would be a better world for all of us to live in.

"Yes I want to achieve enlightenment, but I doubt that I would ever done it; simply because I so love my family.....I cannot abandon that one particular mortal trivial..........if my family achieve it with me then I will."-----------

whatever attracts you will hold you back. you also wont love your family any less, most definitely it will be more.

"Why not live in a cave? Sounds like you're attached to your technological western lifestyle and making excuses for yourself."-----------

why not stay where you are? why should one move? you dont have to prove anything to anyone.

"Isn't it also possible that if a teacher existed in the world who knew all the answers, then only those who are ready to receive those answers would know of that teacher?"----------

sounds right to me

"I don't really get what you're going at OP. Apperently you make a pretty big statement about how futile every attempt to reach enlightment is, promoting not reading books and denying every teacher just playing along... If I had to choose who to deny between Jesus Buddha and you my choice isn't all that hard."-------------

perhaps its as ramana maharshi says;- "everything you've ever learned has to be unlearned before your true state can be realized"

reply to post by splitlevel


sl, what is the experience, if you don't mind me asking, of anyone that spends time in your company? can they feel what you have realized?