'Contrails' Visible 22,300mi Above Earth - With Contrail Enhanced Imagery

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posted on May, 8 2011 @ 01:33 PM
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Originally posted by UrgentInsurgent



Why would you want a grid anyways? Do you think cropdusters spray in grids? Do you think insect control is done in grids? No actual spraying with aircraft like those uses a grid system.
reply to post by firepilot
 


Your examples have the intention to cover the entire ground area.

For weather modification they could spray in grids, because these trails waver out and fill in the open areas. It´s not the same thing, and you know it.



Flight plans are not neccesarily all straight lines, unless ATC grants a direct clearance to destination, and you have a GPS to get you there.


So you are saying that planes go out of their way, and make large detours, just so they can fly these corridors that interect at 90 degree angles, even if it´s not really the direction they need to be going in?

Btw, Bonez and you, as usual. Only that Stars dude now, and the team´s complete. You guys are really passionate about what others think.



Well if some planes go south, and others are going north..well what do you think would happen? Would you prefer the ATC system and routes are restructured, so that large angles are not formed by intersecting aircraft trails?

Do you find it nefarious about street systems being in grids too, often with 90 degree angles?

Go to Skyvector.com Click on charts, and go to enroute high, enroute low, or IFR area..

The only kind of weather modification flights are cloud seeding, and no, it does not involve grids whatsover. i should know, I have done cloud seeding flights and actually know about how it works, from experience.




posted on May, 8 2011 @ 01:39 PM
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Originally posted by adigregorio

Can you explain why clouds didn't move in the picture then?

I say it is a static photo, period. The photo proves this by having stationary clouds, moving sattelite or not the clouds would have moved/dissipated/formed...

Maybe I should stick around? Passing off static photos as evidence, doesn't seem very above board...


You mean this animation?



The clouds look like they are moving to me. What specifically are you referring to?



posted on May, 8 2011 @ 01:43 PM
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reply to post by Uncinus
 


LOL my bad! I should have been more specific. I was referring to the picture posted by the member "Bonz" (SP I am sure)

The picture attempting to "refute" the OP by showing the flight paths. And how they can make "Xes".

I was pointing out that the picture being used to refute, was anything but refuting.

1) Computer manipulated
2) Static Image

I will add a link to the post once I get a chance to find and add it


EDIT-

(This Image)
edit on 5/8/2011 by adigregorio because: As advertised



posted on May, 8 2011 @ 01:44 PM
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It's a computer generated image. The image used for the surface of the earth (including clouds) is a single satellite photograph. Then the gold tracks are computer animations of the recorded positions of all the planes. It's not meant to be a real image, it's a "visualization".

Here's similar for the US:

www.aaronkoblin.com...
edit on 8-5-2011 by Uncinus because: (no reason given)
edit on 8-5-2011 by Uncinus because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 8 2011 @ 01:47 PM
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Originally posted by Uncinus
...It's not meant to be a real image, it's a "visualization".


Why is it being used as an image then?

Second lines are for chumps

Third lines are for more information: I have asked that first question 3 times now, why use a "photoshopped" image as evidence? The ones in the OP have both the originals and the "shopped" versions. Yet when the refuters come, it is manipulated images for the defence only.

All well, I wish I knew more about this subject. I smell alot of fishyness in this thread, but I do not have the required data to "fix" the problem...



posted on May, 8 2011 @ 01:49 PM
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Well if some planes go south, and others are going north..well what do you think would happen?
reply to post by firepilot
 


Well, you would get parralel trails, not a grid.

You would also need planes going east or west.




Do you find it nefarious about street systems being in grids too, often with 90 degree angles?


Sigh, a city layout is not the same as random locations that apperently are located in such positions that paths between them intersect at 90 degree angles.

Especially when I see them in one part of the sky one day, and another the next, going in directions that don´t seem like regular flight paths.



The only kind of weather modification flights are cloud seeding, and no, it does not involve grids whatsover.


You mean the only kind of WM, you know about, or are allowed to talk about. If a secret WM program is going your knowledge is insignificant.

The cloud seeding you talk about is probably aimed at making rain clouds, not a dimming project.



posted on May, 8 2011 @ 01:57 PM
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Originally posted by adigregorio
Third lines are for more information: I have asked that first question 3 times now, why use a "photoshopped" image as evidence? The ones in the OP have both the originals and the "shopped" versions. Yet when the refuters come, it is manipulated images for the defence only.

All well, I wish I knew more about this subject. I smell alot of fishyness in this thread, but I do not have the required data to "fix" the problem...


When planes fly, their positions are constantly recorded by air traffic control, so we know where whey went.

This information is just a lot of numbers. However you can use those numbers to draw lines on a map that show where the planes went. This creates an image. It's just a picture that shows where the planes went.

Looking at this image, you can see that the paths of the planes cross. So the image is very useful for explaining why contrails sometimes cross, or form grids.

Look at Aaron Koblin's site. It has an image that was made by drawing the paths of all the flights recorded in the US in a 24 hour period. You can zoom in on the image. In this case there no background photo, and you can still more or less make out the shape of the US from all the flights. Check it out, zoom in, you'll see lots of places where paths cross.

www.aaronkoblin.com...




posted on May, 8 2011 @ 02:01 PM
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Hey all, thanks for replying, I will try to clarify what I can here.

reply to post by _BoneZ_
 
Hiya Bonez, if you check the time stamp on the contrail enhanced image, you would see it was taken at 1330 local time CA (+8 GMT, 2125 GMT) All shots taken there (aside from the end of the gif image) are in broad daylight. The pictures do have time stamps, I thought they would be self explanatory.

These began forming before daybreak on May 6th, and they remained through the entire day into the next night.
If this contrail in particular was frozen water vapors, as it should be, it would have been recognized by the enhancing software and not appear dark but white or pink, like all the other contrails in the same picture.
Also just a personal note. I am well versed in IFR low, IFR high, SIDs, STARS, so the roadmap in the sky bit I'm well aware of.

I do agree weather modification and chemtrailing are not necessarily the same thing.
By the way, very cool contrail photo, thanks for sharing that.

If you look closely at the animated image, you can see half of this 'X contrail' still being formed as it progresses late into the day - Over the course of over five hours. Normal flights can get from Hawaii to California in the amount of time spent on half of this X to form lengthwise, you can also see that whatever is creating this may not adhere to any sort of flight plan on a fixed path, but are actively forming "with the wind". Aircraft traversing the ocean do not drift with the wind but correct for it and certainly fly faster than what is creating these. I do not think it is an aircraft using any sort of navigation technique going from point a to point b. Yes, of course contrails drift with the wind generally speaking.

Whatever is forming this series of contrails is sticking with this specific section of weather forming.
Oh, and they clearly begin at specific points, if these were normal contrails they should extend out somewhat uniformly beyond the edge of the image rather than abruptly begin forming a contrail miles wide, and they would certainly be enhanced unless they are not at high altitude nor frozen water vapors.

reply to post by firepilot
 
Ok, I never said there was anything sinister here.
And they are closer to 60 degrees rather than 90, actually. Interesting maybe, sinister I hope not!

reply to post by ledzeppelin489
 
Not sure if you're serious but yes, of course I meant visible from 22,300 miles up. Thanks for the clarification though.

Anyway, I'm not saying there's a conspiracy here, nor am I trying to prove they are chemtrails as was earlier said, so going on a bout of chemtrail debunking really is not necessary. As you debunkers have said many times, chemtrails have yet to be proven. My intent is to share what is in my opinion a rare, abnormal contrail formation, and why it is out of the ordinary. For some though, I think the pictures might speak for themselves... As far as debunking is concerned, you whom have been on a crusade to do so, your threads and comments are everywhere here and your points have been heard and considered.

Take care for now and Happy Mothers Day to whom it may apply.



posted on May, 8 2011 @ 02:03 PM
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no, its to hide Planet X (Niburu), get with it!
Or its whatever chemtrailer says they feel like it is.

There is nothing secret about cloud seeding, and no it does not make clouds. Its just trying to get additional precip to come out, and its not even certain it works.

But as much as some of you think there is this vast secret conspiracy, there is never any evidence besides patents and proposals, no photos of aircraft, no idea where these secret aircraft are based out of, no consensus on how, why, etc.

If you ask 10 chemtrailers about their views, you get 10 different answers.

And what did you think about that British clip of their air traffic? I see lots of aircraft intersecting at 90 degree angles. Did you go look at the IFR charts on Skyvector?



posted on May, 8 2011 @ 02:04 PM
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Originally posted by Uncinus
When planes fly, their positions are constantly recorded by air traffic control, so we know where whey went.

You assume to much. From this statement all we can assume is that Air Traffic Control knows where they went. We know what Air Traffic Control tells us.



Originally posted by Uncinus
This information is just a lot of numbers. However you can use those numbers to draw lines on a map that show where the planes went. This creates an image. It's just a picture that shows where the planes went.

Looking at this image, you can see that the paths of the planes cross. So the image is very useful for explaining why contrails sometimes cross, or form grids.

Really? What times did those planes fly over? How soon after one another? What days? Same day?

Seriously? You expect me to look at a time lapse "image" and assume that the grid I see was formed becuse planes flew over the area a month ago, or maybe 6 months! Who knows, since that DATA is not on the FAKE image. (Emphasis not yelling)


Originally posted by Uncinus
... Check it out, zoom in, you'll see lots of places where paths cross.

When did they cross? Was it even on the same day?

All these are pretty pictures. They have a small amount of data on them. Such as, planes fly over the planet. Anything more is speculation, since you can not even pinpoint if a plane landed at a spot or flew over it.

Jesus



posted on May, 8 2011 @ 02:09 PM
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reply to post by Uncinus
 
Ahhh, now see this explanation makes a lot of sense!! Thank you, I would have never thought it to be ships. That would explain why they were created so slowly. Wow, but still, to leave behind something that measures how many miles in width and linger for over 12 hours, still pretty interesting I think.

Perhaps Chemtrailers need to start looking at ships with a suspicious eye, now?

Thanks for your weigh in. I love to see knowledge and experience come together to find answers to questions. Bravo.


Edit to add: I do like this ship explanation, but it looks like whatever is making it is moving with the weather as it is creating it, which is odd. Even looking at that somewhat elementary illustration below, that ship is not moving with the weather, the exhaust is subject to wind while the ship keeps a steady course unlike what appears in the OP animated image.
edit on 8-5-2011 by Sek82 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 8 2011 @ 02:17 PM
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Originally posted by adigregorio

Originally posted by Uncinus
When planes fly, their positions are constantly recorded by air traffic control, so we know where whey went.

You assume to much. From this statement all we can assume is that Air Traffic Control knows where they went. We know what Air Traffic Control tells us.


If you don't trust ATC, then would you at least trust, say, the timetables of scheduled flights between cities? Say the flights listed on expedia.com. They can't make that up, or people would not be able to fly from place to place. It matches up with what ATC records.




Originally posted by adigregorio

Originally posted by Uncinus
This information is just a lot of numbers. However you can use those numbers to draw lines on a map that show where the planes went. This creates an image. It's just a picture that shows where the planes went.

Looking at this image, you can see that the paths of the planes cross. So the image is very useful for explaining why contrails sometimes cross, or form grids.

Really? What times did those planes fly over? How soon after one another? What days? Same day?

Seriously? You expect me to look at a time lapse "image" and assume that the grid I see was formed becuse planes flew over the area a month ago, or maybe 6 months! Who knows, since that DATA is not on the FAKE image. (Emphasis not yelling)


Originally posted by Uncinus
... Check it out, zoom in, you'll see lots of places where paths cross.

When did they cross? Was it even on the same day?


This picture below shows all recorded in one 24 hour period - all on the same day. It's representative of what a typical day's flights are in the US. It shows that flight cross. You can compare the image with the flights listed on any travel site to see that it is a pretty good representation of actual flights.


edit on 8-5-2011 by Uncinus because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 8 2011 @ 02:25 PM
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Originally posted by Uncinus
If you don't trust ATC, then would you at least trust, say, the timetables of scheduled flights between cities? Say the flights listed on expedia.com. They can't make that up, or people would not be able to fly from place to place. It matches up with what ATC records.


Alright, on that map you have can you point out the 4:00 flight to NYC from LA? Which blue line is that? Oh, I won't tell you the flight carrier just point out each line for each carrier. Need the 4:00 flight, PM or 16:00, please!

Uh oh! That data isn't there!!!! So you can NOT use this "picture" as proof of the grid mentioned earlier. All this picture proves is: Planes fly across the planet. ANYTHING more is speculation.

ATC has that data I mentioned, and like I said before we go off of what they tell us. And they didn't give you or me the data that proves/disproves the grid. Just a pretty picture



Originally posted by Uncinus
This picture below shows all recorded in one 24 hour period - all on the same day. It's representative of what a typical day's flights are in the US. It shows that flight cross. You can compare the image with the flights listed on any travel site to see that it is a pretty good representation of actual flights.

That is a little more data! Now we know that planes fly across the planet, and we can estimate how many flew over the US in a 24 hour period.

IT STILL DOES NOT PINPOINT. I still can not tell if a plane flew over, or landed (stopover, or whatever it is called.) It is still just a pretty picture, though it has more data than before. It doesn't disprove/prove the grid mentioned earlier. Though we can SPECULATE that planes flying over COULD have created the grid, it is no where near proven.

Critical thinking skills is what I am using right now. A picture paints a thousand words, but the words I see from these do not answer the question I ask.



posted on May, 8 2011 @ 02:25 PM
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Originally posted by Sek82
I would have never thought it to be ships.

That "X" is not from ships. It is from contrails that are at or near the altitude of the clouds. That "X" moves in perfect sync with the clouds and jet stream. How someone decided to call it being from ships is beyond my comprehension.



posted on May, 8 2011 @ 02:27 PM
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reply to post by UrgentInsurgent
 


I'm not a dude, and you are being obtuse.
A grid is stupid because of the excess of whatever that would be in the intersections. Try it yourself with salt......on a dark piece of paper, pour a thin stream of salt, enough to leave a trail. Now make a "grid" by making lines at 90 degrees. Or 60 degrees if you prefer triangles.
See how there is more salt at the intersections? That's waste, if you are striving for complete coverage. Even if the wind would blow (blow on your grid), there will be extra.
Now just make lines, like crop-dusters really do. Forward and back in parallel lines. No waste. Add wind drift and natural expansion, much more even coverage.
So all this "grid", "X", and whatever else people say are "chemtrails" is just plain old stupid.
As to planes flying, why don't you educate yourself and look up how planes are routed. Learn something. Look for aviation charts. Think about how plane are navigated.
You obviously don't know now. See my signature? It's why I use it. "Chemtrailers" don't seem to want to actually learn, they only want stuff handed to them that they can reject because they don't know enough about a topic from "chemtrail" sites. How can I say this? Because you all ask the same thing, have the same arguments, and spout the same "chemtrailer" script, and you don't seem to learn anything between posts. If you don't understand something, it means you have something to learn. Try it. Don't understand what you find? Ask questions. Look for real experts, you know, the people who have spent a lifetime learning or doing what you are talking about. Like meteorologists, pilots, ATC.......real experts. They know what they are talking about. Is Carnicom a pilot? Anybody in "What in the World are They Spraying" a meteorologist? Why or why not? Motives are important. Carnicom and other "chemtrailers" make a living off of people's belief in "chemtrails". Meteorologists make their living studying weather and the atmosphere. Pilots make their living flying. ATC make their living making sure planes are on route and safe. Who to trust about knowledge of things in the sky caused by planes.....????



posted on May, 8 2011 @ 02:31 PM
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reply to post by adigregorio
 


Since the point was just to demonstrate that flight do cross paths, then I'm not sure why you want to pinpoint a particular flight. It can be done though. Here's a flight from New York to LAX

flightaware.com...

See the "Activity log" below, that shows all the previous flights for a couple of weeks (and historic data is available if you subscribe to their service).

I'm sorry, but could you explain the point you are trying to make? Are you saying that flight paths don't cross?



posted on May, 8 2011 @ 02:33 PM
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Originally posted by _BoneZ_
That "X" is not from ships. It is from contrails that are at or near the altitude of the clouds. That "X" moves in perfect sync with the clouds and jet stream. How someone decided to call it being from ships is beyond my comprehension.


I can understand how you might think that if you've never heard of ship trails before. But could you at least quickly read up on them before rushing to conclusions?

earthobservatory.nasa.gov...



A bank of clouds off North America’s west coast featured a series of white trails in early October 2009. The Moderate Resolution Imaging Spectroradiometer (MODIS) on NASA’s Terra satellite captured this true-color image on October 5, 2009. Although the white trails look vaguely like contrails left behind by airplanes, they actually result from ship exhaust.

The exhaust trails’ appearance—whiter than those of the surrounding clouds—results from them having smaller, but more numerous cloud droplets. Compared to the surrounding air, ship exhaust contains more particles, and each particle can act as a nucleus around which water vapor condenses. Because the available water is divided up among a greater number of particles, the resulting ship tracks consist of cloud particles that are smaller and more abundant than those of the surrounding clouds.


(Edit: Maybe this pic will help illustrate how the ship trails form?)
edit on 8-5-2011 by Uncinus because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 8 2011 @ 02:36 PM
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reply to post by Uncinus
 


I feel (human) that the picture was being used to disprove the ideas of the OPost, and some other posters.

While I am in the camp of "Contrails" (IE I don't think they are spraying us with chemicals) That doesn't mean I won't devils advocate


You were not the original poster of that image, and you have been awesome with your posts! Not that the original poster of said image isn't awesome...(Anyone have a ladder for this hole?)

Anyway, back to the picture. All I wanted to do is make sure that everyone knew that it wasn't:

1) A "realtime" picture
2) Concrete evidence that these "grids" are made by planes (Or "Xes")

However, using those critical thinking skills from earlier...it seems fairly logical that the planes would be causing the "Xes" or "Grid". No evidence though, just my stinky ass--err opinion!



posted on May, 8 2011 @ 02:43 PM
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reply to post by adigregorio
 


Well, the original "X" was caused by ships, not planes, so you were right there



posted on May, 8 2011 @ 02:47 PM
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reply to post by adigregorio
 


adigregorio....Hello. I'm in Palos Verdes, I see you live in Fullerton. Know LA very well, as I grew up here. Have lived in many places since, and have a full life of experience as a result....also, a long career flying for airlines...so, my aviation knowledge is extensive.

You asked about ATC (Air Traffic Control) and seem to not realize just how precise things are nowadays, in the recording of historic activity. In fact....it was amazing to me, to see (just in the last year or so) that such detailed info is being compiled by private companies, from the FAA radar data (and GPS info).

I have referenced www.flightaware.com... many times.....it has a WEALTH of information contained, there...you asked about, say......a flight from NY to LA? I think you said the "4:00" flight....let's find one.....:

Going to the site, look for the "FORGOT the FLIGHT NUMBER?" box....and enter the cities. Let's use 'KJFK' for New York, and 'KLAX' for Los Angeles, OK? Now, click "SEARCH".

We find a menu of flights....randomly picking American Airlines flight 181, departed KJFK @ 1645. (Actually, as I type this...it is scheduled to depart.....my local time is 1240 PDT, so it's 1540 EDT now....)

flightaware.com...


BUT, let's look at the history of that same flight, yesterday (7 May)....:

flightaware.com...

OK..open that link, and see the depth of information there. Go to the right, and look for "[color=#3BB9FF](track log & graph)"...click it to open.

This is it, here: flightaware.com...

Do you see all the detail, there? Minute-by-minute....can you interpret it? Take your time, it makes sense once you pay attention. Have questions, I can answer.....





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