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Peace with Hamas means no Peace for Israel

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posted on May, 8 2011 @ 12:06 PM
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reply to post by backinblack
 


There is a difference between ethnic and religious....

For instance, Judaism doesnt recognize a separation between Church and State, but the Modern State of Israel does...This makes the modern state a SECULAR state, where religious beliefs have no bearing on state policy. This is something entirely western, and roman (through christianity) in origin.

Islam and Judaism share this one thing in common; religion is institutionalized in order to fully become apart of peoples lives.

Now, since Israel s NOT a religious state, while Hamas (ISLAMIC resistance party) and Hizbollah (party of ALLAH) ARE entirely religious, as their names clearly suggest, than religion is ENTIRELY appropriate and relevant when discussing Palestinian politics, but not do when discussing Israel...

Comprende?

All one needs to do is learn what Islamic jurists teach if they want to understand modern Palestinian and Arab League rhetoric. Now, Muslims believes that Islam is destined to conquer the world. Because this is so, Islam always has its eyes on this one goal; in order to effect this goal they have to approach each situation they find themselves in practically. If the Umma is strong, than they use all out war. If it is weak, than they use subterfuge, which involves making temporary truces, "peace treaties" etc. Islam history is laden with such examples.

Read the book "the legacy of Jihad".




posted on May, 8 2011 @ 12:09 PM
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reply to post by Peruvianmonk
 


Alright. And lying is something politicians of all colors do; especially ones religiously motivated (Hamas may be an acronym, but in Hebrew it simply means "lawlessness")....

Do you know how many times Hamas promised a "cease fire" than began firing hundreds of missiles into Israel a month or two later, in violation of the cease fire? Do you know how often they lie? Do you understand the political value of lying?



posted on May, 8 2011 @ 12:37 PM
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reply to post by dontreally
 


Both sides have broken ceasefire agreement's.

It is well known the Israel broke the ceasefie in the lead up to Operation Cast Lead. The rocket attakcs had dropped to 1-2 month, fired by other militant organisations in the Gaza Strip. Israel then decided it was a good time to attack a Hamas meeting.

www.guardian.co.uk...

If this is a competition then Israeli official lies are as numerous, probabley more so, than Hamas or any other Palestinian organisation.

The Shatilla Massacre- lies continus to this day about Israeli actions (led by Sharon) in allowing the Phalange army to massacere Palestinians.



posted on May, 8 2011 @ 12:50 PM
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Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by gem_man
 


Israel is a completely SECULAR state. What on earth are you talking about? The country still functions on the Sabbath - no national day of rest on Shabbat - so how exactly is this a country that respects Judaism?

Christians and Muslims are accorded the same religious rights that Jews are. If youre a religious Jew, you get Saturday off. If youre christian or Muslim you get sunday or friday off..... And actually, some muslim governments in their history forced Jews to clean the streets and son Shabbat.

I dont think i have ever heard anything more ludicrous than Israel being a religious country...Its completely leftist and Liberal ie; look at it major institutions, Hebrew University, Bar Ilan University, Tel Aviv University....All the intelligentsia are secular liberals. Look at its government. Israel has yet to have a truly religious, conservative Jewish prime minister or president. Theyve all been secularists.


Well then, no reason for insisting Hamas recognize Israel as a "JEWISH STATE". I mean IF they are truly secular.



posted on May, 8 2011 @ 02:04 PM
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Originally posted by sonofliberty1776
Don't worry the islam shills will be here to explain to us how we are totally in the wrong and had no legal right to kill OBL. And, by the way, it is all Israel's fault anyway.


Well that's your mothers job to teach you not to discriminate against religions...Something you learn while growing up, respect. My mom would slap me on the mouth if I called a Muslim a towel h*** or a Jew a k***. But that's just me, my mother taught me some to have respect for others.

---

Another 'dontreally' thread....90% of the threads I read of yours is you trying to justify Israels atrocities against Palestine, and present the Palestinians as bunch of radical terrorist who shouldn't be given a nation. And in every one of your threads, you have to pick a argument with the FIRST pro-Palestinian poster you see that contradicts what you say. Why do you insist on causing such a ruckus?

But let me get to the point, and get out of here before this turns into world war 3. Islam is a very sensitive and sacrament religion, would you agree? Good. Have people been saying our execution of the Osama raid was unlawful, and we should have captured him instead of blatantly assassinating him? Good. Quote from your link.



Khaled Meshaal, head of the Palestinian Islamist movement Hamas, on Thursday criticised the method used by US special forces to kill Al-Qaeda chief Osama bin Laden and his burial at sea.


Seems to me that Hamas was more mad about how they killed him more so then killing him. Obviously, raiding a compound of a very significant man in the Arab community, and then just blatantly assassinate him while unarmed, will cause this kind of uproar. Actually, it's illegal, so Hamas is actually totally justified.

Quote from your link:



"Arabs and Muslims are human beings and the West should treat them as such, regardless of whether they are partisans or opponents of Osama bin Laden."

edit on 8-5-2011 by BiGGz because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 8 2011 @ 03:18 PM
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reply to post by BiGGz
 


Wish I could say the pro Palestinian threads are any different.

Eliad.



posted on May, 8 2011 @ 05:05 PM
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Not getting into this argument with irrational and religious fanatics because it will continue for WEEKS.

To me, the only solution to this problem that would stop the bitching on both sides, is a rational one.
edit on 8-5-2011 by BiGGz because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 8 2011 @ 07:09 PM
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reply to post by BiGGz
 


Is calling me an irrational religious fanatic a part of this solution?



Something you learn while growing up, respect.


I refer you to the words that you wrote merely a few hours ago.

But I agree, the polarity of opinions on this topic is only setting us back. Those of us who truly understand this conflict are ambivalent, rational and restrained, rather than the usual "Israel is evil"/"Palestinians are terrorists" riff raff.

As always, with respect,
Eliad.



posted on May, 8 2011 @ 07:27 PM
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Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by backinblack
 


There is a difference between ethnic and religious....

For instance, Judaism doesnt recognize a separation between Church and State, but the Modern State of Israel does...This makes the modern state a SECULAR state, where religious beliefs have no bearing on state policy. This is something entirely western, and roman (through christianity) in origin.

Islam and Judaism share this one thing in common; religion is institutionalized in order to fully become apart of peoples lives.

Now, since Israel s NOT a religious state, while Hamas (ISLAMIC resistance party) and Hizbollah (party of ALLAH) ARE entirely religious, as their names clearly suggest, than religion is ENTIRELY appropriate and relevant when discussing Palestinian politics, but not do when discussing Israel...

Comprende?

All one needs to do is learn what Islamic jurists teach if they want to understand modern Palestinian and Arab League rhetoric. Now, Muslims believes that Islam is destined to conquer the world. Because this is so, Islam always has its eyes on this one goal; in order to effect this goal they have to approach each situation they find themselves in practically. If the Umma is strong, than they use all out war. If it is weak, than they use subterfuge, which involves making temporary truces, "peace treaties" etc. Islam history is laden with such examples.

Read the book "the legacy of Jihad".



Umm.. sorry but your wrong. Israel was specifically founded for "Jews". The "Law of Return" was specifically for Jews. Anyone claiming to be a Jew can immigrate. Yet Palestinians who were expelled from their homes or land during Israels border expansion are afforded no such immigration rights.

Citizenship in Israel can be either Arab or Jew. However, Nationality can only be held by Jews. In 1972 the Supreme Court ruled that non-Jews cannot qualify for nationality rights in the state of Israel because there is no Israeli nation separate from the Jewish people.

I could go on and on about this. But I just wanted to state a few facts. Not to derail the original topic.



posted on May, 8 2011 @ 07:50 PM
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This thread should be retitled "Peace with Hamas means no Money for Israel"



posted on May, 8 2011 @ 08:42 PM
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Originally posted by TXRabbit
This thread should be retitled "Peace with Hamas means no Money for Israel"


And "Peace with Hamas means no more settlements for Israel"



posted on May, 8 2011 @ 09:41 PM
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reply to post by gem_man
 


Do you know anything at all about zionism or Jewish History? Israel was created to be a SAFEHAVEN for the Jews who had historically sufferred under the oppression of Christian Europe and than the Cossaks, communists etc....It was designed to solve the issue of antisemitism - to protect Jews from further abuse from gentiles.

Clearly though there is not a thing they can do to escape it.



posted on May, 8 2011 @ 10:00 PM
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Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by SpeachM1litant
 


The man who killed 3,000 people on September 11th is a religious hero.



I wasn't aware Netanyahu or Bush were thought of this highly in the Arab community... oh you mean the other guy? That beardy hide and seek loving cave dwelling fellow, you know, thin nose, fat nose, kidney, no kidney... can't keep up with him, what a card... the one who snuffed it on the 66th anniversary of Hitlers death, right?.... yeah he dunnit... sure he did.



posted on May, 8 2011 @ 10:03 PM
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reply to post by dontreally
 


Yeah, Christian Europe. What a drag. I mean, it's not like you started it, right?

www.jewsagainstzionism.com...

Oh. My bad again. Oops.



posted on May, 8 2011 @ 10:57 PM
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reply to post by Pr0t0
 


So the Jews were also behind the crusades? Inquisition? Let me guess. The "zionists", or "judeans" of the 15th century spain used the dominican friars to persecute, kill, forcibly convert, and eventually evict hundreds of thousands of Jews so 500 years later they could use it as an excuse to take palestine from the Arabs?

Oh..and i bet you also think the Jews really did kill Simon of Trent, and they really do kill gentil children to use their blood in matzah bread, and they also really did cause the great plague, poisoned wells, etc.......

All the crimes of Christian Europe against the Jews, the least of which was forcing them to live in abject poverty, in Ghettos (wallled sections in the dirtiest part of town) was again a clever zionist ploy...Right? To get world sympathy???

The greatest of all evils is turning the victim into the culprit. There is nothing more morally objectionable than that. And unfortunately the poor Jews are constantly subjected to this disgusting injustice. Anyone who thinks clearly will not believe the Nazi propaganda in their papers. They will not believe a word that came out of the same Nazi Germany that killed 6 million Jews and 3 million others. This Nazi Germany which ingrained germanic pagan vaues which sees brute strength and power, and barbarianism as a virtue, would thus undoubtedly permeate their culture and society with fiction to build the collosal monster they wanted to build.

Only IDIOTS believe this idiotic idea that Zionists waged "war" as if that meant anything at all to begin with. Wha power did the zionists have to begin with? The Jews of Eastern Europe were being brutally oppressed by the Cossacks and Communists. Where was their power base? Why on earth would predominately christian Europe be threatened by so called "zionists"!? Anyone with a working brain and who truly cares about truth will understand that this is propaganda; the same propaganda that the middleages produced that said Jews kill gentile children to make matzah with their blood, despite the biblical commandment against murder and the levitical commandment against eating blood....Yet this didnt stop the ignorant masses from killing Jews. Didnt stop the damascus blood libels of the 19th century that resulted in the deaths of hundred of Jews.. Ignorant, arrogant morons who put "winning" over truth will commit the most horrendous crimes, and despots know this and use these suggestible zombies to execute their agendas.



posted on May, 8 2011 @ 11:22 PM
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One word in that post sums up the entire Israeli attitude; "were".

The past is the past but you can't let go. Forever the victim of some heinous wrongdoing, but now you have the arms of a superpower and have yourselves committed the most morally reprehensible atrocities of the last few decades will you admit that you're the aggressor? No sir. Forever the victim. And when you can't deflect from your White Phosphorous raining down in Palestinian school yards, you look to history to show when great grandpapa Avi was once spat on by a passing Nazi. Pathetic. Who genuinely cares about what my foolish ancestors or your foolish ancestors did to one another. We all have the chance to write the future and not dwell in the past, but that's too much to ask for Israel. That's why I can't resist. I know you'll bite. Forever the victim. But this time only of your own blinkered hindsight.

If Israel had any intention of a peaceful end to the conflict it would welcome the reunification of the Palestinian parties and seek a peace treaty, but no. Nothing could be further from what Israel wants so next time you attempt to gain a vote of sympathy by using examples from centuries past remember we can all find a point in time when our ancestors were persecuted; everyone. Be nice neighbours and sign and stick to a ceasefire treaty.



posted on May, 8 2011 @ 11:36 PM
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reply to post by dontreally
 



All the crimes of Christian Europe against the Jews, the least of which was forcing them to live in abject poverty, in Ghettos (wallled sections in the dirtiest part of town) was again a clever zionist ploy...Right? To get world sympathy???


Sounds a lot like Gaza..

Isn't that a coincidence..



posted on May, 9 2011 @ 03:16 AM
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reply to post by backinblack
 


Is that supposed to be a reply to his point, or the usual deflection?

If you're only able to argue your points regardless of the arguments made to you, what's this discussion really worth?

And that's not to say that it doesn't sound similar. Can't deny that it does.

Just seems like you're trying your best to avoid saying "Hey, you're right, that probably wasn't a Zionist plot".

With respect,
Eliad.
edit on 9-5-2011 by Eliad because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 9 2011 @ 03:30 AM
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.....lets face it folks, the middle east will never see peace.



posted on May, 9 2011 @ 03:35 AM
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Originally posted by Eliad
reply to post by backinblack
 

Is that supposed to be a reply to his point, or the usual deflection?
If you're only able to argue your points regardless of the arguments made to you, what's this discussion really worth?
And that's not to say that it doesn't sound similar. Can't deny that it does.
Just seems like you're trying your best to avoid saying "Hey, you're right, that probably wasn't a Zionist plot".
With respect,
Eliad.
edit on 9-5-2011 by Eliad because: (no reason given)


If I was replying to you it may be different but the thread author has never been one to debate..
Their bias is immense as is their changing stance..

One minute it's a secular state, next it was set up solely for jews..

They are truly not worth debating so I merely point out certain bits of interest..




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