It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Good. Bad. Grey. (Intro)

page: 1
0
<<   2 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on May, 7 2011 @ 07:57 AM
link   
So. I am trying something new here, as I have never been one to post that often on here. What I am attempting is a series of sorts. This is a series that I would encourage people from any walk of life, any culture, and any belief to participate in. Not because I want more views. Not because I like to prove people wrong. And not because I am bored. It is, however, because I like to think. And I like for other people to think. As I have seen it, there are not many people now who think and do not simply spew what they are being told. As a result, I am attempting a series on what I have been thinking about lately - Christianity.

I have had quite the time while I have been away from ATS, and I have been thinking a lot about nearly everything I "knew". Initially, it was so that I could back my thoughts. The more I thought, though, the more I realized - I don't actually believe this. My beliefs are a bit different than what I've been told by so many people. So I started searching, in order to find out what I believe. To most, my conclusion on my beliefs is a contradiction - I believe in God, in the Christ, and in the Bible, and everything that those three say. The fourth basic part of my beliefs is heresy, to most of those who believe in the first three - I do not believe in Christianity. I find it interesting (and rather pathetic) that most people who call themselves Christians have nothing to do with the Christ. Many have tried to cover up the truth, and have even attempted to erase it. Where they cannot cover it up, they make their own perception(s) and preference(s) seem as truth.

This series has one main purpose - to make the reader(s) think. If I had to pick a second purpose for this series, it would be to see what people had to say on these matters - their perspectives, so to speak. A third purpose - to show the truth, rather than allow people to continue being convinced of lies and deceptions.

Each part will consist of what I have seen as a biblical truth, and will be listed as a separate thread. The topic, or biblical truth, in each will be the starting sentence in its thread. Each part will not be the same; each will have a different topic. As such, they are all bound to be different lengths and have differing amounts of supporting details. Please feel free to send a private message to me if you know of a topic that you may have questions about, and I will try my best to answer it. I may not answer right away, but I will answer, in time. What I can say, though, is that I will research your question(s) with whatever resources I have, including my mind. If it turns out to be a topic that I would like to use as another part to this series, I will try my best to let you know ahead of time, and will likely ask you about using it, before actually making it another part in the series. Feel free to post and/or send a message.

I encourage you, the reader, to read all parts of this series and to keep up with new additions to it.

With that, we begin.

-----------------------

(Part 1 is next)
edit on 5/7/2011 by bobbyboy because: Relevance




posted on May, 7 2011 @ 08:22 AM
link   
Just before anyone starts damning Christianity for all of it's flaws, remember two very simple things. Firstly, the only part of the bible that is undisputedly the word of God unmolested and untouched is the 10 commandments. God gave those to Moses on a stone pre written.

Secondly in relation to this, God, whom is perfect has entrusted his words to the hands of men who are not perfect.

In other words, just because the bible is full of contradiction and laced with stories of what we perceive of intolerance rigid and unfair rules it does not mean that God does not love us.

Have a look at this video below. Here is God, working in the real world healing real people and stopping bloodshed between 2 faiths. This is all done through the mother of our saviour. Why? because in this case, she is the only one that people on both sides will accept. God is far from stupid and he is far from disconnected and uncaring.



Peace and love be with you all



posted on May, 7 2011 @ 08:22 AM
link   

edit on 7-5-2011 by markosity1973 because: double post



posted on May, 7 2011 @ 08:28 AM
link   
the only reason for these type threads are to cast doubt. if you do not have faith the reason is because you have never Asked for any.

Matthew 21:22 ESV " And whatever you ask in prayer, you will receive, if you have faith.”

Holy Bible:

John 14:13 Christ Jesus " Whatever you ask in My name, this I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. "

John 15:7 Christ Jesus " If you abide in Me, and my words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. "

1 John 5:14 " And this is the confidence that we have toward him, that if we ask anything according to his will he hears us. "

John 14:13-14 Christ Jesus " Whatever you ask in my name, this I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask me anything in my name, I will do it. "
edit on 7-5-2011 by steven704 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 7 2011 @ 08:40 AM
link   

Originally posted by steven704
the only reason for these type threads are to cast doubt. if you do not have faith the reason is because you have never Asked for any.

Matthew 21:22 ESV " And whatever you ask in prayer, you will receive, if you have faith.”

Holy Bible:

John 14:13 " Whatever you ask in my name, this I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. "

John 15:7 " If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. "

1 John 5:14 " And this is the confidence that we have toward him, that if we ask anything according to his will he hears us. "

John 14:13-14 " Whatever you ask in my name, this I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask me anything in my name, I will do it. "


Yes, and those passages right there are lies. How many times through history did people of a like mind get together in prayer and ask Jesus to do something? How many times did Jesus actually do the thing? Check this, I belong to a local town message board, it is filled with Demon hating Jesus loving Christians. Post anything of a secular nature and you will get Satan's and Demons thrown at you, and little posts that say, "I am asking Jesus to melt your heart and let him in," and one even told me that he was asking Jesus to hold me over the pits of Hell, so that I could then fear him. Jesus is made up, and never, ever answers prayers, for if he did, why then people would have a Supergodman to do their bidding, and punish all of us sinners like we so richly deserve in their little minds.



posted on May, 7 2011 @ 08:46 AM
link   
reply to post by steven704
 


did i say that i was here to cast doubt? did i say that i have no faith?

i already told you the reason(s) for this thread - why do you feel the need to cover up what i say and replace it with your own perception? is it because you do not agree with it? is it because it doesn't agree with your comfort level? is it making you a bit antsy, perhaps?

cuz that's what truth does to people when they've grown up around ignorance and arrogance, and have chosen to accept it without question, rather than to seek the truth through it. God alone knows how to work things for good, He alone will be the One who who give an account to, and He alone answers prayers, however He decides - who are you, to try and replace Him?



posted on May, 7 2011 @ 09:01 AM
link   
reply to post by autowrench
 


while i do not agree on the passages being lies and the Christ being made up, i do agree with the rest of it.

the Christ was given to us, by God, as a physical showing of His love, and to show us exactly what His love is, rather than the love that the world claims is true. he was and is real, but people constantly ignore what he said and they only tend to pay attention to that which they like. what little bit they admit as "convicting" quickly dwindles within their interest level, because they have no desire to be wrong. they want to continue in their sin, and they show a willingness to drag others down with them, with no care or concern for what they are really doing.

autowrench, i kinda get your perspective on this. i cannot truthfully say that i understand it, but i get the general idea of it, and honestly - i pity humanity, for the mess which they have caused. i have been part of it in the past, and so i ask God for advice on my every move and action, so that they may be good; rather than what i think is right, i go with what i know is good. if you wish for me to clear up anything that you have heard, and that you think is false, i will do my best to tell you the truth on whatever you ask. for that which people have done and said to you, as well as thought about you - i am deeply sorry. not that i can make up for any of their actions, but that i can at least share with you what knowledge i possess. i hold no faith in christianity, but in God, the Christ, and the Bible. christianity is not of God, it is of man, and it will fail.



posted on May, 7 2011 @ 09:18 AM
link   
reply to post by markosity1973
 


you're approaching this from a limited, human perspective - christianity is flawed, because people have allowed a religion to form and it cages truth. the Bible holds no contradiction, as it is the word of God, and God has no contradictions within Himself. you are right, though, in saying that it does not mean that God does not love us. yes, it was written by human hands, but do you not think that it needed to be so? i mean, how else would humans understand the words that God speaks? if a human hears God, and knows that it is He that speaks to him, then that human tends to start to understand things. if a person is able to understand what God says, and can communicate that to people, by human means - would God use that to give His word to man, or would He leave us in the dark about truth?

as for your comment about mary - she was the one that God had planned, since the fruit was bit into, to carry His son, the Christ. past that - she's human. there is nothing, that the Bible indicates, to say otherwise. why do you make her out to be anything more than human, if the Bible does not say she is? also - there are not only two sides (reference to "both sides"). and yes, i agree completely with that near-end comment - "He is far from disconnected and uncaring". if He was, His heart would not ache for those who choose death over love.



posted on May, 7 2011 @ 09:26 AM
link   

edit on 7/5/2011 by Sauron because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 7 2011 @ 09:36 AM
link   
reply to post by bobbyboy
 


Truth: Demons know more than humans, naturally.

Many people seem to be under the impression that Satan and his demons - also known as "fallen angels" - are stupid. Might I bring some things to your attention, if you are under that impression -

1) Most demons have knowledge they have gained over many generations. A human typically has one generation that he or she will stick to, and one time frame; one era that had its own difficulties and specific events. While a human usually has that one generation, a demon typically has many. As such, that demon would have knowledge of many events in the world, would know what exactly happened to bring about those events, would know the motivation behind most - if not all - human behavior, would know the weaknesses of many people, would know the strengths of many people, and to summarize it all - would know nearly everything there is to know about the physical world. That is all assuming that this demon has the mind of a typical human. Note this - any human, if given the time to travel the world and get to know these things, has the capacity to know them. If a human had one body to live in for eternity, he or she could travel and know eveything that I just stated - and much more. A demon does not have the mind of a human. It can comprehend an immense amount more than that which a typical human seems to be able to comprehend. Not only that, but it can also understand what it knows.

2) Demons are also known as "fallen angels". Meaning - they once were heavenly angels, but for one reason or another, decided to rebel. As a result, they were thrown into hell. Chances are, they still know whatever they knew as heavenly angels. I can assure you that not as many people would be willing to call an angel - that dwells in heaven - stupid.

3) Demons know what they are going to do when everything comes to an end. They know they will fight the angels and God, and that they will lose. The interesting thing is that they still will fight. Though they know they are going to lose, they keep doing what they were doing before. The same can be said of some humans, but not many. Many humans will give up once they know something is a losing battle. Demons have that sense of purpose; humans usually do not. Humans, instead, are usually concerned with where they are going to get or find food, what their next job will be, where they will go, what they will do, and so on. Humans, as it seems, are mainly concerned with short-term results. If a human is solely focused on the short-term results, I see no reason to think that he or she knows his or her purpose.

If you happen to think that I do not have any backing for this - consider this: Demons can invade a human's mind; they make every movement, every thought, and everything that human does to be inhuman - while under the demon's control, or possession. Can a human do the same to a demon? Perhaps, but I've never heard of it happening, so I'm saying "no". Another idea to note is that demons have been a subject of human worship before, and the same idea is still active. Some humans still worship demons. Do any demons worship humans? Not to my knowledge, nor do I see any indication that says otherwise. So I would say "no" to that question.

If you are looking for biblical backing on this, refer to -

1) Revelation 9:20 - This shows that some humans will worship demons, even in what many call "the end times", which describes an account of what is to happen when everything is destroyed.

2) Revelation 16:14 - This plainly states that demonic spirits can perform signs as well.



posted on May, 7 2011 @ 09:37 AM
link   
reply to post by bobbyboy
 


Truth: Jesus is not God.

Speaking on the "End Times", Matthew 24:36 (NIV) shows this: "But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father". This is something that I, personally, have never heard anyone speak on. To me, this blatantly states that Jesus does not know when he will be returning to the earth. Now, if Jesus was simply "God in flesh", one would think he would have knowledge of when he would be returning to the earth. Jesus, however, was not simply "God in flesh", but was the Son of God. He had supernatural abilities and knowledge, but he was not the Almighty. As such, only God - the Father - knows when Jesus will be returning.



posted on May, 7 2011 @ 09:37 AM
link   
reply to post by bobbyboy
 


In terms of theology, another common misconception is that Lucifer led the rebellion of the Angels. The truth is Azazel led the rebellion; a real nasty fella with the face of a cherub and the body of a man. Lucifer's story is more prominently known because it is the most tragic. He [Lucifer], God's first and favorite Angel did not begin the war, nor did he fight in it. He bided his time, watching, waiting to see which side would be victorious. He doubted God and so his loss of faith cut God deeper than any rebellious action.

Imagine getting your ass kicked and having your best friend just standing there letting it happen. If you win, he runs over and gives you a high five, if the other guy wins he pats them on the back and walks off. Not cool.

Many will argue that the war was over the Angels' jealousy of mankind's free will. This doesn't make sense though, because if Angels didn't have free will, then how could they go to war. Anywho...

I think Gabriel and Lucifer have the best story arcs in this tale. The tragedy of Lucifer (mentioned above), and the stories of Gabriel, the angel that can get away with murder in heaven (or get away with not murdering here on Earth). Story goes that God sent Gabriel down to smite a small village that wasn't living up to their worshipping potential, and Gabriel refused. God gets angry, as he does from time to time, and casts Gabriel out. Michael (Mîkhā'ēl) gets sent in to do the dirty work in his stead (the kiss ass of heaven), but some time later, God's soft spot for Gabriel takes control and he is allowed back into heaven, making him the only angel that was ever bannished from heaven and then allowed to return (twice actually, for a seperate account that I can't recall).

But the whole idea of God and the Devil is a bit simplisitic too. God is the devil, and the Devil is God. They are two sides of the same coin. The idea of Good & Evil is purely perspective.

Another misconception is this: "When you die you go to heaven or hell". No one goes to heaven or hell. Heaven is for His Angels, Hell is for the rest of His crowd that he's decided to remove from his "light". When you die, your spirit (energy) becomes a new (recycled) part of the Universe. Heaven and Hell are kharmatic ideals. Do good and good will happen, do evil and yada yada yada ( though sometimes the free will of others can & does affect you. How you handle this interference reflects also on your kharma, and so on and so on. In the end everyone will be joined with "God" as all things return to the source. Think a reverse big bang. This includes the fallen and evil spirits as well. Basically you'll meet God the same time that Hitler and Bush do. Kind makes you feel special doesn't it?

I do find it interesting that nearly every culture on earth have ancient accounts of being visited by a "God"/Entity with the name Michael (or some variation of it), and that he always takes the role of some divine messenger in these stories. These same cultures also have similar stories of Angels/Giants/Beings being cast down into the sea.

Oh.... and Satan isn't Lucifer alone. Satan means "the Adversary and/or the Accusor". Any being, divine or mortal, that gets in the way of one's faith is technically Satan. But these are all just technicalities, easily forgiven. You want to get all complex; you should delve into the Angels that have never seen "Heaven", and their sole purpose is to watch the gates of Hell. A scary bunch. I'll have to dig my book out of storage some day. You've got me going now

edit on 7-5-2011 by Mactire because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 7 2011 @ 09:55 AM
link   
reply to post by bobbyboy
 


replace Him? never would i carelessly say or think such a thing.

Faith is a gift. these threads based on mens perception, thoughts and ideas are leaning on the ' understandings ' of men. Unless you are laying down scripture, the thread will only become a breeding ground for opinion.



posted on May, 7 2011 @ 10:01 AM
link   
reply to post by autowrench
 


Look. i really don't know about the hearts of ' other ' men.. as there is Only GOD who knows a hearts faithfulness. you can hate me and call the Word of GOD what you will. but these are ' your ' choices alone.. same as the rest of you reading these words.
Unless you've the faith.. you alone can only know. and you alone will answer to GOD for every blasphemy you've mustered.

May He give us all faith.



posted on May, 7 2011 @ 10:01 AM
link   

Originally posted by bobbyboy
reply to post by markosity1973
 


you're approaching this from a limited, human perspective - christianity is flawed, because people have allowed a religion to form and it cages truth. the Bible holds no contradiction, as it is the word of God, and God has no contradictions within Himself. you are right, though, in saying that it does not mean that God does not love us. yes, it was written by human hands, but do you not think that it needed to be so? i mean, how else would humans understand the words that God speaks? if a human hears God, and knows that it is He that speaks to him, then that human tends to start to understand things. if a person is able to understand what God says, and can communicate that to people, by human means - would God use that to give His word to man, or would He leave us in the dark about truth?

as for your comment about mary - she was the one that God had planned, since the fruit was bit into, to carry His son, the Christ. past that - she's human. there is nothing, that the Bible indicates, to say otherwise. why do you make her out to be anything more than human, if the Bible does not say she is? also - there are not only two sides (reference to "both sides"). and yes, i agree completely with that near-end comment - "He is far from disconnected and uncaring". if He was, His heart would not ache for those who choose death over love.


My friend,

Faith and religion are two separate things. Faith is the living part of the religion, the belief in your heart in the unseen and unfathomable.
Religion is the ideas of man on how to channel that faith. Yes it is flawed, but when the faith is strong religion is not a cage, but a liberator.

I am not going to get caught up semantics over Mary but know this, if you watch the video you will see wonders and miracles caught on film.

Personally I don't care what people think of her and what you see - whether it be heavenly messenger satan's bride or anything in between. Either way something supernatural and beyond the realm of science has and does occur when she appears and goes to prove that there is a power greater than us at work and by default that God must be real.



posted on May, 7 2011 @ 10:08 AM
link   
reply to post by bobbyboy
 


" did i say that i was here to cast doubt? did i say that i have no faith? "

" i hold no faith in christianity, but in God, the Christ, and the Bible. christianity is not of God, it is of man, and it will fail. "


what exactly will fail according to you?

are you seaking of the New Testament of Christ?

The Word of Christ is The Word of GOD. This is Christianity And this is very real.



posted on May, 7 2011 @ 10:13 AM
link   

Originally posted by bobbyboy
reply to post by bobbyboy
 


Truth: Jesus is not God.

Speaking on the "End Times", Matthew 24:36 (NIV) shows this: "But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father". This is something that I, personally, have never heard anyone speak on. To me, this blatantly states that Jesus does not know when he will be returning to the earth. Now, if Jesus was simply "God in flesh", one would think he would have knowledge of when he would be returning to the earth. Jesus, however, was not simply "God in flesh", but was the Son of God. He had supernatural abilities and knowledge, but he was not the Almighty. As such, only God - the Father - knows when Jesus will be returning.


Again. here you are spewing lies about the Son of GOD. He certainly IS GOD.



posted on May, 7 2011 @ 10:19 AM
link   
reply to post by steven704
 


in reference to how the culture back then viewed father and son, yeah, you're right. but there is a difference between the Christ and God, and it's one that is not to be ignored, if you are indeed speaking with truth. did you even read the reference i put there? your "argument" is pretty dull, if you seek to quiet the truth on this. it's a thin sheet, and easily torn. do you deny that only God knows when the Christ will return, and that the Christ himself does not know?



posted on May, 7 2011 @ 10:23 AM
link   
For 25,000 years a divine feminine was the focus of the world's religions. I'm curious as to where she went and why she was oppressed? The Bible aside from Mary casts females in the role of whores.witches and temptresses. We are told a woman caused the fall of man. I believe women are much more important to our origins and future race than causing the fall of man.



posted on May, 7 2011 @ 10:24 AM
link   
reply to post by steven704
 


christianity will fail, plain and not-so-simple. what do you mean by -
"are you seaking of the New Testament of Christ?"
- ?

the words which the Christ spoke were those that the Father told him to speak, so they were God's words, spoken through Jesus.

i get that christianity is VERY real. just like i am VERY real. and christianity and i don't along VERY well. reason? i don't like that a belief system can hide behind a pure mask, all the while taking out its targets, yet calling it "God's will". it's a system of hypocrites, just like the ones Jesus preached against.



new topics

top topics



 
0
<<   2 >>

log in

join