The Flaws I See In Religion (Long Read)

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posted on May, 6 2011 @ 05:47 PM
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WARNING: LOGICAL CONTENT

In my opinion the overall belief that some all powerful, all knowing entity is the creator of the universe, and if we devote our lives to worshiping this entity we will be rewarded is borderline insanity. The purpose of this thread is to examine every flaw that I see within religion, and I will do my best to avoid singling out one religion but instead broadly focus on most if not all religions as a whole, but to be completely honest most of my points focus on Christianity.

Religion is based almost entirely on geography- If you were born and raised in China where almost every single person around you is a part of one religion, what are the odds that you will make the decision to become a part of another religion? Sure when you're older you could read up on a religion and decide you want to convert, but if you spent your whole upbringing following one religion, what are the odds that you will just drop that religion and choose another?

Most if not all religions are contradictory- They state that you can only worship this god/religion, and any other god/religion is false. So in a way they cancel each other out.

The Bible is just plain wrong- According to the Bible, Earth is only around 5000 years old. Carbon dating, fossils, and dozens of other techniques can tell us that the Earth is MUCH older than 5000 years. The idea that humans were alive at the same time as dinosaurs is laughable. On top of that hysterical belief, the church that based their knowledge off the 'word of God' spent hundreds of years and man hours suppressing anything that went against their flawed beliefs. People were taught that the earth was at the center of the universe and all stars were equidistant from the earth. Surely the man that created the universe would know how it is structured, but I guess this could be attributed to corrupt members of the church spreading lies. Still, imagine where humanity could be if knowledge was never suppressed and people were not afraid to speak against the church out of fear for their lives. The Bible also claims that if you pray for something, your prayers will be answered, but that's just a lie. The Pope himself could spent a whole week in solitary confinement doing nothing but praying for God to end poverty, end wars, put an end to deadly diseases, etc., but nothing will ever come from it. Any person who is a member of a religion can pray for hours on end, and their prayers will not be answered. Sure, some small little event may lead them to believe that their prayers were answered, but that sounds a lot to me like a self fulfilling prophesy, they are out looking for their prayers to be answered, so the first thing remotely close to their prayer will be associated as Gods intervention. On top of those heaps of lies, God killed a total of 2,270,365 people within the Bible, and Satan killed a whopping 10 people. Maybe Satan wasn't such a bad guy after all, huh?

Being punished for following the wrong religion is unfair and no logical, understanding, just God would do such a thing- There are dozens of religions out there, so how can a God punish me for not choosing the right one? According to most religions it's a matter of faith and believing that theirs is the correct one, so how am I supposed to know which one is correct? Some pastor tells me Christianity is correct, so should I just take his word and spend the rest of my life following the teachings of a book? Should I base my religion off of what the other people around me believe? Which religion I believe is the most beneficial to humanity? Which religion has the most followers worldwide? There's no way to know which is the right one, so you could be setting yourself up for hell in the afterlife right now by following the wrong religion, even if you believe it to be the right one.

Religion is a coping mechanism used for people who are afraid of death- Believing that we will one day die and completely cease to exist is unbearable, completely unthinkable, so religion is used as a form of denial to counteract the fact that humans die. IMO, when we die, we're dead, and that's the end of our perception. When our brain stops working we stop working, because we need our brain to use our senses, to think, to understand what is happening around us, so when our brain stops working, then that's it for us. Don't be scared though, be thankful that you were the one sperm cell to make it to the egg out of the millions. Be thankful that every single event that took place, starting from the Big Bang, to the right combination of stars going supernovae and spreading their radiation and atoms across the universe, to the exact amount of particles being attracted to each other in our solar system which formed planet earth, to the right chemicals forming a single celled organism in the primordial ooze, to the first fish who decided to see what all the hubbub is on land, all the way to your great-great-great-great grandparents deciding to have a child at the right moment. If all of those events did not take place, you just would not exist, so be thankful that you have the opportunity to experience life and spend what little time we have here living on this planet that some of us take for granted every day.

Humans were stupider and more gullible 'back in the day'- If I began telling everybody that I communicated with an entity named Zeebo, and I speak to him late at night in the dark when I'm alone, but nobody else can hear him, not even me, I would be looked at as insane. I could claim that if they do not devote their lives to Zeebo, they will be painfully tortured by Zeebo himself, but instead of a religion forming, a restraining order would most likely be filed and I could possibly be jailed. In fact, I would probably be thrown into a mental institution and be seen as completely psychotic. Things didn't fly like this back in the day, if somebody was told that a man spoke to God and we need to worship him or we will burn for eternity, they didn't call his sanity into question, instead they believed him and hopped on the bandwagon.

Higher powers are just the simple solution- Throughout time man has always wanted to have the answers to questions, and that's exactly what higher powers are. We like to believe we understand how things work, and if do not know the answer we create one. The sun? No that's not a thermonuclear reaction millions of miles away, that's the god of heat. Rain? That's not a natural phenomenon, the rain god created it because we danced around and chanted. Those might seem silly to us living in this time period, but people will look back and think the same about us. Creation of the Universe? No the Big Bang wasn't a natural phenomenon, a mysterious, powerful entity created it. Death? No our brain doesn't stop functioning and we are no longer conscious beings, we live on in a state that no living being can access or provide evidence to back up.

There is NO PROOF!- It sickens me that people devote their entire lives worshiping a religion that there is literally no proof to back up. It's complete blind faith, and it astounds me that people believe such a wild concept without even a shred of evidence other than a book. For anything to be taken seriously in the scientific or even the logical-thinking community, there must be evidence. Does this not apply to religion? Is there some double standard that prevents the invisible, omnipotent entity from being called into question? Near death experiences are used as evidence for the afterlife, but when a person dies massive amounts of '___' are released, which creates epic hallucinations. That bright light you're seeing that you believe to be heaven? Sorry to burst your bubble Johnny Pastor, but you're just hallucinating in your last moments of existence.




posted on May, 6 2011 @ 06:00 PM
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whoever believes in religion is a fool...

its about faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and knowing that His Word is the source of truth.

This truth is foolishness to those who are going to perish.



posted on May, 6 2011 @ 06:12 PM
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reply to post by STEADFast
 





whoever believes in religion is a fool...


In my experiences that's actually true most of the time, not all though. It's mainly the idiots that subscribe to that belief system because sometimes it's the only theory about the creation of the universe that they have learned, usually by forced learning through church. Either that, or they're too uninterested in the universe they live in to try to understand it. They don't take the time to study astronomy, it's boring to them, they prefer a God snapping his fingers and WHAMMO!, lions are living alongside dinosaurs, megalodons are swimming alongside tuna fish, etc. However many intelligent people actually take a few minutes out of their day to consider the idea of a God, the afterlife, and all that jazz, until they hit a point where it becomes too flawed and illogical for them to believe in. I've noticed that the atheist population has been skyrocketing lately, which is a good sign to me.



posted on May, 6 2011 @ 06:22 PM
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I see your signature. What's the stats on mushrooms?

Anyway, I believe in God. I don't believe in organized religion...they've missed the message.



posted on May, 6 2011 @ 06:36 PM
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reply to post by AmrikazNightmar3
 


How can you believe in something with no proof to back it up? Check this Carl Sagan video out, it sums up my thoughts:



Also I couldn't find any stats for shrooms, sorry.
edit on 6-5-2011 by TupacShakur because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 6 2011 @ 07:07 PM
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reply to post by TupacShakur
 


I used to listen to music like this.

My friend, I was an outspoken atheist for a long time. I already know quite a bit about Carl Sagan. I used to say God was Santa Claus for adults. The Bible doesn't make sense from a logically stand point and it never will.

"I believe in God, only I spell it Nature." – Frank Lloyd Wright

As one of your fellow atheists have said.

I think Jesus had the right idea. He understood what the others had not (i.e. the Old Testament) The golden rule, "Do unto others as you would want them to do to you", pretty much sums it up. You want to be loved right? You want to be cared for right? Don't we all? You don't want to be judged? I believe God is love. That is all.

I claim no organized religion and I think we both can agree that they are corrupt. I see no problem with love, so why and try to deny me my God? And these are things I learned, or am trying to learn, from a very wise person. I'm learning, but it's a constant battle. It's easy to type you love others, but it is a task.

Enough about me though. I hope you achieve/find whatever it is your looking for.



posted on May, 6 2011 @ 10:23 PM
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All religions are idiotic. They are all man-made and man's attempts to justify himself to God. It's retarded to think anyone can do anything at all to make themselves righteous enough for God. Men judge "good VS bad", God judges "perfect VS imperfect".



posted on May, 6 2011 @ 10:38 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


I don't understand? I mean, I'm with you as far as what you just posted. I don't care for religions, any, but I do believe in God. Do you believe that too?

Your avatar of a cross, and mood being repentant are throwing me off.



posted on May, 6 2011 @ 11:34 PM
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Originally posted by STEADFast
whoever believes in religion is a fool...

its about faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and knowing that His Word is the source of truth.

This truth is foolishness to those who are going to perish.


But! How do you know what he said? And who he said it to? The entire New Testament was written by a Roman family, who made it all up. Check these links before you answer this:

10 Christ-like Figures Who Pre-Date Jesus
listverse.com...

How the Jesus Myth was Created
home.iae.nl...

The World's Sixteen Crucified Saviors
www.infidels.org...

Is The Bible Plagiarized From Other Religions?
www.comereason.org...

Myths surrounding Jesus' birth
www.religioustolerance.org...

101 Clear Contradictions in the Bible
www.islamway.com...

THE "TRUE AUTHORSHIP OF THE NEW TESTAMENT
reuchlina.tripod.com...

WHO WROTE THE NEW TESTAMENT?
www.angelfire.com...



posted on May, 7 2011 @ 12:02 AM
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reply to post by autowrench
 


Does that take away from the message?



posted on May, 7 2011 @ 05:06 AM
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Originally posted by AmrikazNightmar3
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


I don't understand? I mean, I'm with you as far as what you just posted. I don't care for religions, any, but I do believe in God. Do you believe that too?

Your avatar of a cross, and mood being repentant are throwing me off.


Because Christianity is NOT "another religion". It has nothing in common with religions, Christianity is "redemption". Every other religion in the world has rules of dos and don't dos, all are man's ways to justify himself to God.

Christianity is about what God did for us, Him searching us out and taking us exactly how we are. There is a link in my sig: "Do You HATE religion as much as I do"? (Or something to that effect.)



posted on May, 7 2011 @ 11:40 AM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


Thank you for clearing this up for me. I'm on the road to figuring things out and have far to go, but I think I'm on the right path.

If that's what Christianity means, then I could see us being on the same page.

I will take a look at your link. Thanks again, my friend.



posted on May, 7 2011 @ 12:45 PM
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Originally posted by AmrikazNightmar3
I see your signature. What's the stats on mushrooms?

Anyway, I believe in God. I don't believe in organized religion...they've missed the message.


What message? How can you define God but religion cannot?

I'd propose that no man can define God, or prove whether a deity exists. You can't extract objective morals from simply observing reality. It's a conjuring trick from abstraction.

ALSO

I'm very much enjoying the Theist (NOTUrTypical) arguing against yourself (The Deist)

I find it amusing that someone can move from the Deist position to the Theist, to claim to know what God's thoughts, wishes and desires of any given lifeform are. I find that amusing.

A belief in God is one belief, a belief in the being's thoughts, desires, emotions and commands takes quite an extraordinary ammount of faith.
edit on 7/5/11 by awake_and_aware because: (no reason given)
edit on 7/5/11 by awake_and_aware because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 7 2011 @ 01:04 PM
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reply to post by awake_and_aware
 


That we should love one another as we love ourselves.



posted on May, 7 2011 @ 01:08 PM
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reply to post by AmrikazNightmar3
 


i don't disagree with that goal.




posted on May, 7 2011 @ 01:11 PM
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reply to post by awake_and_aware
 


You bring up good points. If you haven't noticed I'm at the crossroads, but if I was to believe, this one feels right, so I'm trying.

I'm always open to others opinions.



posted on May, 7 2011 @ 02:05 PM
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Originally posted by awake_and_aware

Originally posted by AmrikazNightmar3
I see your signature. What's the stats on mushrooms?

Anyway, I believe in God. I don't believe in organized religion...they've missed the message.


What message? How can you define God but religion cannot?

I'd propose that no man can define God, or prove whether a deity exists. You can't extract objective morals from simply observing reality. It's a conjuring trick from abstraction.

ALSO

I'm very much enjoying the Theist (NOTUrTypical) arguing against yourself (The Deist)

I find it amusing that someone can move from the Deist position to the Theist, to claim to know what God's thoughts, wishes and desires of any given lifeform are. I find that amusing.

A belief in God is one belief, a belief in the being's thoughts, desires, emotions and commands takes quite an extraordinary ammount of faith.


Deism and Theism

In Richard Dawkin's "God Delusion" he does admit that the universe does indeed "appear" to have been designed and he attempts to explain why it "appears" this way from a Darwinian perspective. Certainly when one considers, for example, the human body, the eye and even consciousness itself, it does seem to "appear" to be the product of a very elaborate and intricate "design."

The three main arguments for the existence of the gods (or a singular god) would appear to be the argument from design, the argument from "religious experience" and the argument from religious hypnosis and indoctrination; the latter being more of a sceptical argument.

The argument from Religious Experience

The argument from religious experience can essentially be dismissed due to the electro-chemical nature of the brain and the fact that mystical experiences can be produced by scientists administering '___', '___' or other psychoactives; further such experiences can be shown to be entirely subjective; a white American conservative Christian nationalist for example may have dreams and visions of a white American nationalistic Jesus and feel that their faith is confirmed, just as the Sadhu may have dreams and visions of Shiva, just as the African Christian may have dreams and visions of a black African Jesus. This is really one of the "dangers" of religious fanaticism, since the religious fanatic may well be absolutely and totally convinced of the correctness of their diablolical religion. Similarly religious schizophrenics may well genuinely have audio and visual hallucinations of devils or gods appearing to them and communicating with them, but this does not establish the objective existence of such beings.

The argument from "Religious Hypnosis and Indoctrination."

This is probably the most easy to dismiss, since a child who has been hypnotised and indoctrinated since birth to believe in, for example, that the Aztec Sun God "Huitzilopochtli" requires constant human sacrifice offerings to receive his blessings, may well come to "truly" believe in such a god and may well even have dreams and visions of the God, just as a person who watches a horrific movie may well have dreams which involve the plot of the movie; such is the nature of consciousness. Most of the bizzarre and utterly irrational religious beliefs which religious fanatics genuinely believe in can be explained by a process of religous indoctrination and hypnosis and the "normalisation" of the irrational, where in many societies it is perfectly "normal" to find that "most" people have bizarre and irrational beliefs and that those who reject such beliefs are considered "abnormal" or even heretical and blasphemous.

The argument from Design

Of all the arguments for the existence of the gods, is generally the argument from design that Richard Dawkins and other philosophical humanists devote most of their time to attacking, although the barbaric immorality and bigotry of the gods of the world's major religions is also a major issue. The "argument from design" is essentially the central argument of the Deists; it is simply that the human life and the universe "appear" to be a product of rather intricate design.

I was listening to an interview with Richard Dawkins where he stated that he had to admit to the possibility that human beings "may" well be the product of genetic engineering and that they "may" well have been designed, but he was not referring to the design of the "gods" or a "god" as religious fanatics understand the terms; he was merely referring to intelligent beings who may have genetically engineered human beings and that they "may" have been from other planets, however this is purely a "speculative" argument regarding possibility, not a statement of his "belief," and of course he also raised the question of how such intelligences could have evolved and made the point that this does not imply a Grand Designer, since this belief leads to the question of who created the designer's designer, ad infinitum. I also suspect that life on earth is a product of genetic engineering by intelligent designers, but again this is just speculative. Further since it is entirely probable that we live in a "multiverse (a cosmos of many universes or "parallel worlds")" it may well be the case that our designers are "metaphyiscal" to our universe, however by metaphysical I only mean that they are not part of our physical universe, not that they are "not physical."

From Deism to Theism

Attempts by Deists to create a "natural theology" have generally been little more than observations of science and nature. "Theology" of course literally means the "study of God or the gods" and of course since the gods do not lend themselves to empirical observation, this is not at all a "study" of the gods but rather theology is simply the study of the anthropomorphic ramblings of ancient and modern religious fanatics. It is at the point where the Deist begins to "define" the gods and to describe their laws and their morality where the Deism ends and the religious fanaticism of Theism begins. To the modern American Christian, their deity could be generally described as an American Nationalist, an evangelical anti-Communist, a consumerist, an imperialist and an ideological Capitalist, etc. This tendency to attempt to claim to have knowledge of the unknowable is simply epistemologically fraudulent; thus "Theology" could be generally defined as the study of human stupidity.

Religious Beliefs, Attitude and Behaviour

Unfortunately there is a relationship between religious beliefs, and human attitudes and behaviour; if we believe for example that the priimitive, savage, bigoted, human-nature hating and genocidal Bronze Age war god of the Bible is a definition of absolute goodness, then this will affect our attitudes and behaviour, and thus the history of Christianity has been a history of war, bigotry, tyranny, slavery and human misery which has not created "religious utopia" but hell on earth; all of which seems to be the will of the Biblcial deity, or rather of the authors of the diabolical texts of the Bible. Thus what is "good" to a humanist becomes "evil" to a religious fanatic and vice versa and thus the religious "hell on earth" that we find is a natural consequence of such inverted thinking.

I think that even if there are "gods" or "designers," they clearly designed human consciousness with intelligence and reason, however religion in general seems to be an insult to human intelligence and reason, and thus it could be argued that religion is a heresy agains the gods of nature (i.e., human beings).

Lux
edit on 7-5-2011 by Lucifer777 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 7 2011 @ 03:37 PM
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reply to post by Lucifer777
 


Was this directed at me?



posted on May, 7 2011 @ 03:45 PM
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Originally posted by awake_and_aware
reply to post by Lucifer777
 


Was this directed at me?


I was just generally rambling about the difference between Deism and Theism.

Deism and atheism are just harmless interpretation of reality, neither of which can be proven or disproven, however when constructing a "moral" philosophy both Deists and atheists are limited to human reason and human intuition, whereas for the theist, generally their morality is affected by "revelations" which are just the anthropomorphic ramblings of ancient and modern religious fanatics who have claimed to be speaking on behalf of the gods; many of whom today would probably be instituionalised in psychiatric institutions or considered to be genocidally insane human-hating bigots, tribalists, racists, etc..

Lux



posted on May, 7 2011 @ 03:53 PM
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reply to post by Lucifer777
 


Well then i guess it's at the benefit of everyone else.

I am a fan of Hitchens, and i have studied the philosophy of religion. From Socrates to Bertrand Russell....Many of the concepts you'd mentioned were known to me.

I know the difference between Theism and Deism - I did mention my amusement at the arguments earlier in the thread.

Thanks for posting anyway - I like those clear cut refutations. Very concise.
edit on 7/5/11 by awake_and_aware because: (no reason given)





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