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I Don't Think That Modern People Actually Believe That God Exists

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posted on May, 8 2011 @ 10:57 AM
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Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by NorEaster
 


God is in a placeless place means here and now = nowhere. I am very serious. It is all poetry and there is nothing to understand.
Tell me, what do you think the ramifications of 'my beliefs' are?


edit on 7-5-2011 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)


There are only the ramifications they have on you (and anyone else that is affected by you) that involve choices you'll (and they'll) make or not make in this corporeal life as a result of those beliefs. If eternal life replaces corporeal life, then the ramifications can include your expectations and the impact that those expectations will have on that aspect of your existence. This will be the case with anyone you've affected with your beliefs. If these expectation cause you or anyone you've affected to be vulnerable to predation within this realm or the eternal realm (should it exist) then that will be an added ramification. I suppose that there are many potential ramifications that branch out from each of these broad categories, with many reasonable ramification potentials branching from them. I think that the concept of ramification is pretty well established.
edit on 5/8/2011 by NorEaster because: (no reason given)




posted on May, 8 2011 @ 11:03 AM
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Originally posted by NorEaster
I don't. I never really considered the possibility of it until I started looking into how most people fit the notion of God into their own lives. How many times have you heard someone say.

"Well, that's how I see God. You believe what you believe and I'll believe what I believe. No one really knows, and no one can ever really know, so I have my way of looking at it all, and it works for me. I think that God's okay with however a person chooses to deal with stuff like that."



Sorry, but I'm not going to believe what a book translated, reinterpreted and fixed hundreds of times has to say, if there really is a god who love us all then He WILL understand my position, why else would he give us free will?



posted on May, 8 2011 @ 11:28 AM
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reply to post by SaberTruth
 


I completely agree with you on this. Faith-based assertions have infected every aspect of the human being's effort to determine the parameters of reality, and lately, it's been the wizards of voodoo metaphysics that have been doing the most damage. I'm assuming that it's due to the fact that advances in technology have begun to debunk their treasured knowns, and this is the beginning of the death throes of those knowns. That doesn't mean that the religionists will win the day, but it does mean that physics will have to step back and develop a little humility if it'll survive wit its credibility intact.

Everyone's talking about how there is such a search for answers right now, and the assumption is that it's because of fear and widespread unrest. I disagree. Fear and widespread unrest has been the only constant for humanity on this planet, and this moment of unrest certainly doesn't stack up to moments like WWII and other periods of unrest. What's driving this search for answers is that the modern world has finally hit the tipping point where what it believes has been debunked by what it knows it has proven to be true with its research and technologies, and while the researchers remain siloed in their focused efforts, the modern human (at large) has begun to realize - even if only viscerally - the impact of it all in a macro sense. And the human brain needs to exist within a logical environment or else it can't properly place itself within the contextual confines of that environment. In short, it can't feel that it's an existential contradiction with everything around it.

Until someone squares this circle, the angst is not going to go away. And no cheesy philosophical word-play is going to satisfy this need. The new definition of real will have to align with the fundamental logic structure that the brain itself is based on, or else it'll "feel" like a cheap contrivance. It won't be a book that's thousands of years old. That's already been the gold standard definition for centuries, and now that definition is failing epically. It won't be some physics card-trick, because weird experiment results don't explain anything. They merely increase the irritation within the human brain.

The next definition won't have the luxury of faith as its enforcer. The new modern world can't even be contained by tanks and troops anymore. Faith and its manifestations (lockstep political action groups, terrorist cells, bald-faced liars exposed from week to week, officially sanctioned lunacy) have crippled its ability to define reality for the majority of modern humanity, and with the Internet, there's no way to reverse that trend. Maybe it was a good thing that the American Right convinced the American faithful that politics was the means to create a heaven on earth? The net effect of that effort destroyed faith as a viable interpretation of reality forever, and likely freed millions from its grasp. Maybe even billions of those in future generations.

You're right. The faith-based assertion is making its last stand, and like anything taking its last stand, it'll get a lot more disturbing and irrational before it finally drops for good. Whenever anyone orders me to believe in something through faith, I can't help thinking of that old cartoon showing a guy getting caught by his wife as he's in their bed with another woman. The caption reads "Honey, c'mon. Are you going to believe me or your lying eyes?". Faith is like fire, and I never forget that about it.
edit on 5/8/2011 by NorEaster because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 8 2011 @ 11:36 AM
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Originally posted by mbartelsm
Sorry, but I'm not going to believe what a book translated, reinterpreted and fixed hundreds of times has to say, if there really is a god who love us all then He WILL understand my position, why else would he give us free will?

I'd just like to point out that when it comes to the documents in the original languages, the standard criteria by which ancient documents are judged to be accurate, the Bible has withstood many attempts to discredit it. We have manuscripts much closer to the time of the originals for the NT than for any other ancient documents. No set of documents has been as scrutinized as the NT, and no other text of the era has as many copies and in many other languages as well. In short, the textual evidence for the accuracy of the NT ms. we have is unparalleled.

Translations do have issues; nobody disputes that. But we continue to discover more about the ancient languages and get a better understanding of the meanings of various words and phrases and customs. There are plenty of free online interlinears for those who don't read Koine Greek, and I'm working on one of my own at bible.fether.net... .

I say all that to make the point that this is not a case of "the telephone game" where the original message is unknown. But there is evidence of dishonesty in attempting to alter the "official" version (United Bible Societies) to advance certain agendas such as making the text appear to favor males. I will try and find some of the posts in my blog that go into the details of all that. And of course there are many more problems with translations, regardless of version. Yes, even the Bible is clouded by conspiracy theories. ;-)

Examples of tampering with the original language text:
betterbibles.com...
www.fether.net...
www.fether.net...

While some may find these things disconcerting, keep in mind that their being exposed means we still have the ability to recover the original. This is very encouraging.

edit on 8-5-2011 by SaberTruth because: added links

edit on 8-5-2011 by SaberTruth because: fix misplaced link



posted on May, 8 2011 @ 11:38 AM
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Originally posted by mbartelsm

Originally posted by NorEaster
I don't. I never really considered the possibility of it until I started looking into how most people fit the notion of God into their own lives. How many times have you heard someone say.

"Well, that's how I see God. You believe what you believe and I'll believe what I believe. No one really knows, and no one can ever really know, so I have my way of looking at it all, and it works for me. I think that God's okay with however a person chooses to deal with stuff like that."



Sorry, but I'm not going to believe what a book translated, reinterpreted and fixed hundreds of times has to say, if there really is a god who love us all then He WILL understand my position, why else would he give us free will?


And you know that He understands anything or perceives anything....how? I agree. What can a book that's been translated, reinterpreted and fixed hundreds of times have to say about anything? Including the true identity of God, or even if such a being exists.



posted on May, 8 2011 @ 12:12 PM
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Originally posted by NorEasterIt won't be a book that's thousands of years old.

The age of a book isn't the issue, but its contents. Truth and fact will stand the test of time.


The next definition won't have the luxury of faith as its enforcer.

Faith is not the same as wish, though some seem to treat it that way. I view faith as a reasonable projection from the known, and by that definition much of what anyone believes to be true would qualify as faith. I cannot prove that the sun will come up tomorrow or know for a fact that the next chair I sit on will hold me up, but I have faith that both are true because of past experience; that is, my faith is based upon reasonable observation.

For me personally, I see evidence of God all over the place. As I explain at one of the links in my signature, the existence of physical things running down leads me to conclude that they could not be eternal, and as non-eternal things they had to have been caused by someone or something outside of the laws of physics; i.e. non-physical. From there I deduce that this First Cause must be intelligent, powerful, vast, and personal. And from there I deduce that this God allows free will in people, which accounts for why things have gone so wrong, and that this God has provided a way for an eventual end to all that is wrong. Of course this is an over-simplification of how I got from A to Z, but I'm just giving my rationale for my personal faith and presenting my case for calling it reasonable and rational.

That said, there is a LOT of corruption in the churches and church history (and as a wise person has said, history is written by the victors). There is more on those issues at my book site: books.fether.net... .



posted on May, 9 2011 @ 08:21 AM
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reply to post by NorEaster
 


There has always been a search for answers. The mind is a machine that produces questions incessantly. As soon as there is a belief that there is something separate the questioning begins.
In deep sleep there are no questions, because there are no-things appearing separate to consciousness. It is just consciousness (some use the word god). In deep sleep there is no question and no answer is required.
When we are awake we see images and we put borders around certain aspects of the whole image and then call that separated out bit, a 'thing'.
The images (things) versus you /or the things to deal with and you having to deal with them is what makes the questions arise. How do i navigate in this world? This is the situation that is believed to be true.
The truth is there is nothing to solve.
The questions will keep coming until consciousness realizes that it is only ever seeing itself.
This self is a jealous god, because until you recognize it, it will keep forcing you to see it. It can not help it, it is the universal intelligence, it does nothing else.
It is shouting wake up. And until you wake up to what you are, life will always be a competition, a struggle for survival, a painful existence, some refer to it as hell.

You come to these threads to wake yourself up. That is why you are here.
The intelligence that you are knows all of this is true, but the mind made beliefs are so deeply laid that you believe that this can't be true. Beliefs are not truth.
Believing is not the same as knowing.


edit on 9-5-2011 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 9 2011 @ 01:40 PM
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Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by NorEaster
 


There has always been a search for answers. The mind is a machine that produces questions incessantly. As soon as there is a belief that there is something separate the questioning begins.
In deep sleep there are no questions, because there are no-things appearing separate to consciousness. It is just consciousness (some use the word god). In deep sleep there is no question and no answer is required.


I would have to disagree with you on this, since this board has definitely had its share of "what did this dream mean?" threads. The brain doesn't shut down during sleep and neither does the mind. There are even methods of "learning" that have proven to be effective involving the leveraging of sleep awareness. All in all, while it's a pretty cool riff, your premise doesn't survive a quick Google search of "dream states" or "sleep+cognitive awareness".


When we are awake we see images and we put borders around certain aspects of the whole image and then call that separated out bit, a 'thing'.
The images (things) versus you /or the things to deal with and you having to deal with them is what makes the questions arise. How do i navigate in this world? This is the situation that is believed to be true.
The truth is there is nothing to solve.


You seem to be bent on trying to convince me that perception is reality, and the truth is that it's not and never has been. Conscious awareness exists, and separations between identified conscious wholes exist. No amount of phraseology is going to alter that primordial fact. As to what this has to do with the thread's premise, I have my own questions.


The questions will keep coming until consciousness realizes that it is only ever seeing itself.
This self is a jealous god, because until you recognize it, it will keep forcing you to see it. It can not help it, it is the universal intelligence, it does nothing else.
It is shouting wake up. And until you wake up to what you are, life will always be a competition, a struggle for survival, a painful existence, some refer to it as hell.


Again, it seems as if you're trying to shoehorn a premise into threads where it doesn't really fit. Put up a thread about your premise and let the board address it. Hijacking unrelated threads is no way to promote an idea.


You come to these threads to wake yourself up. That is why you are here.
The intelligence that you are knows all of this is true, but the mind made beliefs are so deeply laid that you believe that this can't be true. Beliefs are not truth.
Believing is not the same as knowing.


edit on 9-5-2011 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)


I don't come to these threads to wake myself up. I come here to challenge my own ideas and to have my ideas challenged by others.



posted on May, 10 2011 @ 10:30 AM
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reply to post by NorEaster
 


When i talk about deep sleep i am not talking about the dreaming state. When you are in deep sleep you are unconscious, like when they operate on people they are not conscious of what is happening because they are unconscious.
I have never said that reality is perception as this is not my belief.
Misreading, illusions, delusions, add ons, fantasy. Nothing is seen and felt for what it is, it has to be turned into our perception of it.

I could point you toward god, but it seems you are bent on keeping god away.
Whatever makes you happy.

Namaste.
edit on 10-5-2011 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 10 2011 @ 08:23 PM
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Originally posted by Itisnowagain
I could point you toward god, but it seems you are bent on keeping god away.
Whatever makes you happy.

Namaste.
edit on 10-5-2011 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)


Okay.

Well, give Him my regards when you see him next. Let Him know that I'm doing what it is that I'm doing and that we can settle up when I'm done. If this god of yours is who I think it is, then let Him know that I'll be looking for Him when I get off this rock. He'll know exactly what I mean. Believe me.



posted on May, 11 2011 @ 09:50 AM
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reply to post by NorEaster
 


The existence of a deity is an assumption. It's an assumption to think that if the deity did exist, he would be able to understand or "hear" you.



posted on May, 11 2011 @ 10:09 PM
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Originally posted by awake_and_aware
reply to post by NorEaster
 


The existence of a deity is an assumption. It's an assumption to think that if the deity did exist, he would be able to understand or "hear" you.


"He" isn't a deity. "He" is a passed human being. "He" just knows what the faithful have faith in, and "He" knows what they'll be expecting to experience when they walk off on this corporeal phase of life. "He" exists in layers of redundancy, meaning that there's no shortage of these kibds of *ssholes on the other side. Passed people don't change from the people they were before they passed. They just find new ways to prey on other people. Ways that were established a long time ago - at least for the people from this planet that will eventually pass. Imagine the possibilities if you knew that perception - for the faith-based thinker - really can become reality once they've passed.
edit on 5/11/2011 by NorEaster because: (no reason given)




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