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Originally posted by Janky Red
Not one person in this thread has been able to tell me what tool/s in Paul's ideological arsenal, are capable of addressing corporatism??? The answer is none, zero, zilch, because Ron sees business as a net positive and because of his non interventionist perspective corporations will take extreme advantage. There is a naïvety
around here that can boarder on complete denial...
Originally posted by miconATSrender
We have laws that restrict businesses from screwing consumers. But if I am not mistaken, did not the supreme court just rule that there will be no more class action lawsuits. And those commie judges, that are in for life, are appointed by the puppet government. So now its harder for us to get together to make them pay, and to bankrupt them for their crimes.
I thought that all the bailouts that gives all that power to the corporations was voted against by him, over and over and over and over again. So his only tool is his vote, and he is using it. It seems to me he is against corporatism. But if elected would he not have a greater tool? Executive orders would be a good one to use. Hell, all the others use it for evil, we can hope, and his voting record makes me think he would use it for good. Oh and that is the tool they would never want in the hands of a constitutional person.
His stance on noninterventionism is on foreign policy.
But, also, I guess that would apply to not letting the government intervene outside the scope allowed by the Constitution in all things.
In its current form the government is more opposed to BIG business than it used to be....
....In a number of reports written over a few decades, CED recommended that farming "resources" -- that is, farmers -- be reduced. In its 1945 report "Agriculture in an Expanding Economy," CED complained that "the excess of human resources engaged in agriculture is probably the most important single factor in the "farm problem'" and describes how agricultural production can be better organized to fit to business needs.....
CED members were influential in business, government, and agricultural colleges, and their outlook shaped both governmental policies and what farmers were taught. Farmers found themselves encouraged to give up on a farming system that employed minimal outsourced inputs and capital and get "efficient" by adopting instead a system that required they go into debt in order to purchase ever more costly inputs, like fossil-fuel based fertilizers, chemicals, seeds, feed grain, and machinery. The local, decentralized food distribution networks that were previously in place became subject to corporate buyouts, vertical integration and consolidation....
Their plan was so effective and so faithfully executed by its operatives in the US government that by 1974 the CED couldn't help but congratulate itself...
...Of mergers and acquisitions each costing $1 million or more, there were just 10 in 1970; in 1980, there were 94; in 1986, there were 346. A third of such deals in the 1980's were hostile. The 1980's also saw a wave of giant leveraged buyouts. Mergers, acquisitions and L.B.O.'s, which had accounted for less than 5 percent of the profits of Wall Street brokerage houses in 1978, ballooned into an estimated 50 percent of profits by 1988...
THROUGH ALL THIS, THE HISTORIC RELATIONSHIP between product and paper has been turned upside down. Investment bankers no longer think of themselves as working for the corporations with which they do business. These days, corporations seem to exist for the investment bankers.... In fact, investment banks are replacing the publicly held industrial corporations as the largest and most powerful economic institutions in America.... THERE ARE SIGNS THAT A VICIOUS spiral has begun, as each corporate player seeks to improve its standard of living at the expense of another's.
Corporate raiders transfer to themselves, and other shareholders, part of the income of employees by forcing the latter to agree to lower wages. January 29, 1989 www.nytimes.com... New York Times
WASHINGTON -- A recent analysis of the 2007 financial markets of 48 countries has revealed that the world's finances are in the hands of just a few mutual funds, banks, and corporations. This is the first clear picture of the global concentration of financial power, and point out the worldwide financial system's vulnerability as it stood on the brink of the current economic crisis....
www.insidescience.org...
Up for grabs at the negotiating table is worldwide privatization and deregulation of public energy and water utilities, postal services, higher education and state alcohol distribution controls; a new right for foreign firms to obtain U.S. Small Business Administration loans; elimination of a list of specific U.S. state laws about land use, professional licensing and consumer protections, and extreme deregulation of private-sector service industries such as insurance, banking, mutual funds and securities. www.commondreams.org...
Originally posted by daddio
ALL of you seem to be buying into the OP. Do you NOT realize it is a government survey of sorts maybe. See how many people knee jerk react or react at all? This is how the shadow governments gets it's polls and then adjusts it's programs to work better int he future. The OP was obviously set-up for this project. TPTB will see how this goes, if it gets any postings on other sites or gets blogged. Then they will adjust the criteria for the program and resubmit it for more responses.
Why even give this guy the time of day?
Repost this many times over to get people to "understand" what could be and probably IS going on.edit on 7-5-2011 by daddio because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by crimvelvet
No bloody fights just an endless stream of our wealth into the coffers of "a few mutual funds, banks, and corporations"
If you look at my post on JBS Swift, you can see the current government is NOT opposed to big Big business and THAT is my major problem. We have ten corporation now in control of 80% of the world food supply, ONLY THREE beef processors and yet the Department of Justice makes placating noises
However the greedy cartels running the World Trade Organization are STILL not satisfied with part of the cake they want it ALL.
Up for grabs at the negotiating table is worldwide privatization and deregulation of public energy and water utilities, postal services, higher education and state alcohol distribution controls; a new right for foreign firms to obtain U.S. Small Business Administration loans; elimination of a list of specific U.S. state laws about land use, professional licensing and consumer protections, and extreme deregulation of private-sector service industries such as insurance, banking, mutual funds and securities. www.commondreams.org...
Remember it was CLINTON, a democrat who sent the VP of Cargill, Dan Amstutz to as trade negotiator to write the Agreement on Agriculture and it was CLINTON who signed that blasted treaty!
Google Video Link |
Google Video Link |
Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
Originally posted by miconATSrender
We have laws that restrict businesses from screwing consumers. But if I am not mistaken, did not the supreme court just rule that there will be no more class action lawsuits. And those commie judges, that are in for life, are appointed by the puppet government. So now its harder for us to get together to make them pay, and to bankrupt them for their crimes.
Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
Commie judges? Either you don't know what you are talking about or you are intenionally spewing misinformation. The state is not run by the people, it is run by corporations and corporations are legal business entities.
Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
Corporations are prevailent in capitalism, less so in socialism and totally outlawed under communism!
Originally posted by miconATSrender
I thought that all the bailouts that gives all that power to the corporations was voted against by him, over and over and over and over again. So his only tool is his vote, and he is using it. It seems to me he is against corporatism. But if elected would he not have a greater tool? Executive orders would be a good one to use. Hell, all the others use it for evil, we can hope, and his voting record makes me think he would use it for good. Oh and that is the tool they would never want in the hands of a constitutional person.
Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
Which makes him either extremely naive or simply controlled opposition for the corporate puppet state. You cannot say you are against corporations dominating government and in the same breath be pro-capitalism. That may have been possible 200 years ago and before, but it today its oxymoronic absurdism!
We no longer live in small towns in mesopotamia or middle age europe dominated by monarchs and everyone a master of a learned trade. You don't see many blacksmiths, carpenters, painters, stone masons, plumbers, electrians, basket weavers, shoe makers, hat makers working for themselves as sole proprieters. EVERYTHING IS INCORPORATED IN ONE FORM OR ANOTHER!
Originally posted by miconATSrender
His stance on noninterventionism is on foreign policy.
But, also, I guess that would apply to not letting the government intervene outside the scope allowed by the Constitution in all things.
Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
I agree with his foriegn non-interventionalist policies, especially in regard to foreign market imperialism, but that should not disqualify every possible scenario that may REQUIRE some form of intervention for humanitarian purposes.
Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
I also agree that the FED is a problem but I do not agree that we should go back to the gold standard or that we should replace this private central bank with competing private central bank. The solution instead is to fold the FED into the treasury department and allow government to issue its own currency with its own prime rate and thus greatly reduce the need for income taxes.
I also agree we need higher tariffs on american brand merchandis produced in third world countries, if that is what he wants, but not across the board tariffs on everything coming from overseas. That would be a disaster and might even bring us WW3.
Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
The world is not black and white and I do not consider Ron and Rand Paul my savior. He is simply more honest than your typical republican but in no way is he left of the political spectrum. Big government is not necessarily a problem, its what kind of big government we have and this big governemnt is weak as hell and 100% pro corporatism.
Ron Paul says he wants a smaller government. I suppose he doesnt realize what his actions will do to the country. He says he wants to get rid of many government agencies including the DOE, DHS, IRS, FEMA, DHHS, and the federal reserve.. What is he thinking? These are horrible ideas. The DOE oversees the US energy, inspections, research ect. The DHS keeps us safe. FEMA responds to disasters. The federal reserve is a very important body of the government. Doesnt he realize that by abolishing this he will destroy the country?
The federal reserve is what keeps the US government going. We need a strong independent federal reserve. Studies have shown that the more independent that are the lower the inflation rate is. He keeps calling the Fed wrong or that Bernanke doesnt know what hes doing but thats just plain wrong. He also wants to bring back the gold standard but thats another failure too.
He voted against the Sarbanes-Oxley Act. Does he want another Enron scandal ?
He wants to get rid of the income tax and fun the government through tariffs. Thats insane. Tariffs reduce trade and there will not be enough money to fun the government. His idea of a small government does not work in the twenty-first century, maybe in in the 1800's.
He wants to have a national sales tax. There wont be enough money raised to support the government. Maybe if we abolish government to the point that the is almost no it might work, but thats not realistic. Sales taxes are regressive taxes that hurt the middle and lower class and favor the upper class. maybe he doent know that or he is in someones pocket?
He was also against TRAP. TARP was instrumental in saving the US economy and has worked fantastically. Since then the US has made a profit off it and kept the economy together.
QE1 and QE2 have also worked to stimulate the economy. Ben Bernanke can also prove how it has worked and why we needed it. There is proof that it has worked.
Originally posted by miconATSrender
Hi Janky Red
I don't know, I was under the impression he is against any connection between the government and corporations.
If a business fails, too bad, others will buy from the liquidation of it and the next will learn from the mistakes made.
None are too big to fail. But cut the lobby money the hell out. He is for companies but no connection or favoritisms in government.
We have laws that restrict businesses from screwing consumers. But if I am not mistaken, did not the supreme court just rule that there will be no more class action lawsuits. And those commie judges, that are in for life, are appointed by the puppet government. So now its harder for us to get together to make them pay, and to bankrupt them for their crimes.
I thought that all the bailouts that gives all that power to the corporations was voted against by him, over and over and over and over again. So his only tool is his vote, and he is using it. It seems to me he is against corporatism. But if elected would he not have a greater tool? Executive orders would be a good one to use. Hell, all the others use it for evil, we can hope, and his voting record makes me think he would use it for good. Oh and that is the tool they would never want in the hands of a constitutional person.
His stance on noninterventionism is on foreign policy.
But, also, I guess that would apply to not letting the government intervene outside the scope allowed by the Constitution in all things.
“The U.S. Supreme Court dealt a crushing blow to American consumers and employees, ruling that companies can ban class actions in the fine print of contracts,” he said.
AT&T had argued that a federal law that encourages the use of arbitration, the Federal Arbitration Act, trumped a California consumer protection law at issue in the case.
In its ruling, the Supreme Court’s conservative majority agreed.
“The California law in question stands as an obstacle to the accomplishment of the purposes and the objectives of the FAA. It is accordingly preempted,” Justice Antonin Scalia said for the majority in reading his opinion from the bench.
You cannot say you are against corporations dominating government and in the same breath be pro-capitalism. That may have been possible 200 years ago and before, but it today its oxymoronic absurdism!
Google Video Link |
Originally posted by miconATSrender
I don't think him naive for voting against the bail outs.
I don't think capitalism and corporatism are the same thing.
capitalism=private owner for profit
corporatism=control of state by large groups
We can have corporations and government separate and still be successful as a country.
Some of us do live in small towns, and I know people who do have business you listed, except for basket weavers and hat makers. Those I know are DBA not incorporated.
I don't think tariffs would bring on WW3 but our humanitarian actions might.
Agree not black and white, I don't know who started the whole savior religious mantra about Paul. But I do think he would be a good President, and a step in the right direction.
I am just a common man with a common opinion.
I am not trying to imply I am anything more.
Originally posted by Rockdisjoint
reply to post by miconATSrender
Well, idk Ron Paul is a free market person and corporations are anti-free market.
Originally posted by miconATSrender
Originally posted by Rockdisjoint
reply to post by miconATSrender
Well, idk Ron Paul is a free market person and corporations are anti-free market.
So that is what I thought, there is a difference between capitalism and corporatism.
So are people still under the impression they are the same?
capitalism=good
corporatism=bad
Originally posted by Janky Red
Well that's the rub, he can be against that connection intellectually and still be part of the problem.
Look at the core of his idealism, in regards to business it is that the consumers will regulate business
with their purchases. In essence, the idea is "bad" business will be defunded and terminated by angry shoppers, which will in turn regulate business.
Do you think that will work???
I don't know about you, but I do not have the time to determine the "goodness"
of a business every time I go out making commerce.
This same idea would apply to multinational corporations doing business in the States too, which does not give
me very much confidence. Couple this approach with the fact that these entities practice the opposite of what Paul preaches in regards to dealing with them, namely lobbying and influencing government.
So, the government cannot interfere with business, but business, by the very nature of the solution proposed is free to interfere and essentially govern with their wealth and influence.
The supreme court justices who ruled on that class action case were not the commies, they were the
conservatives
even worse is the conservatives decided to trump state law in favor of Federal law... Which is exactly the opposite of what conservative here say they believe in... Pair this crazy attitude with Paul and I worry that
we the people will be completely replaced by "We the Contract"
Originally posted by LexiconRiot
reply to post by crimvelvet
You make valid and scary points. My opinion is base on EPA regulations against dumping and things of that nature. There is a reason that corps want DOE and EPA "defunded."
Yes these agencies have also over reached to affect the American people. Thus they need reform. We can not afford to abolish them though. We don't want to go back to the days of the flaming rivers.
Originally posted by gorgi
Originally posted by The Old American
Originally posted by gorgi
Originally posted by The Old American
Originally posted by kipfilet
No offense meant, but no person with a basic knowledge of modern economics takes Ron Paul seriously.
No offense meant, but no person with a basic knowledge of modern economics can possibly do anything but take Ron Paul seriously.
/TOA
Ron Pauls lack of understanding is astounding. He doesnt know what the Fed does and wants it abolished. Cutting out most government agencies will harm the middle class. NO oversight by the government will allow monopolies and fraud. National defense will be gone. Freedom will then subside.
If Ron Paul got his way he would turn the USA into Mexico or worse, Nigeria.
How about, since you don't believe Ron Paul has what it takes to run the country, you tell us who you think is qualified and why.
I would prefer none of the above. Obama is a little to weak. He gets pushed around a lot. One thing I like about Ron Paul is that he doesnt get pushed around.I understand why people like him for that reason.
/TOA
Originally posted by LexiconRiot
For you fans of "smaller government" please Google Cultural Imperialism and Class Dominance. You would all unwittingly make the middle class the slave class. Less government leave a power vacuum. Who do you think would fill that void? The state governments have proven just as ineffective as the federal. The void will be filled with BIG business. You all love to talk about going back to the way things used to be run.
The Battle of Blair Mountain.
Do we really want to repeat of the bloody history of corporate oppression. At least with the government we have a voice no matter how splintered the political realm gets.