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Smackdown: Police officer 'takes out drunk girl, 15, outside school in violent attack'

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posted on May, 6 2011 @ 08:31 PM
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reply to post by thesolutionisrevolution
 


Thank you for proving my point. By stating in the video you can see, you just drove home what ive been trying to say that people are ignoring. WE saw her movements clearly, because we were watching from a distance.

The officer was NOT, and was behind the female, and chances are could NOT see what she was doing with her hands.

Hindsight is 20/20, and not used when reviewing an officers use of force for EXACTLY that reason.




posted on May, 6 2011 @ 08:31 PM
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reply to post by CastleMadeOfSand
 


Wow, that was truly brutal, these guy really need to just join the NFL, they wouldn't be hurting people like this. Also, a bonus, if they ever sacked a quarterback like that they'd be heroes instead of villains.
Though now that dude is in a coma for whatever reason. Not picking on cops there are good cops, just in those cases that's harsh. He moved him after smashing his head hard in a wall, you shouldn't even move someone after something like that. He could of made it worse and I'm sure he moved his unconscious body for a good reason, I'm, sure that's resisting arrest somewhere
I kid about that to try and make light of these situations. Thank you for informing me of that video, star for you my friend



posted on May, 6 2011 @ 08:32 PM
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Prime example of why I hate cops.... People don't like hearing that, but I see no reason hiding my true feelings, and I don't.



posted on May, 6 2011 @ 08:33 PM
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Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Smackdown: Police officer 'takes out drunk girl, 15, outside school in violent attack'


www.dailymail.co. uk

If you watch the clip from start to end, you will realize she was the one being held down. She must have done something to provoke the other lady to hold her down. Once the officers arrive on scene, the lady who was holding her down was still on the ground. We do not have the full story.



posted on May, 6 2011 @ 08:35 PM
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Originally posted by Realms
Yeah, saw this....there needs be charges brought against the cop. Excessive force at its finest!


I completely agree, I felt outraged and compelled to call and complain about this assault. If anyone would like to call the Phoenix Police Dept. Police Chiefs office listen to the automated message and leave a message after the beep at the end of the call. This is outrageous to be honest.

Police Chiefs Office

(602) 262-6747



posted on May, 6 2011 @ 08:35 PM
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Originally posted by Xcathdra

Originally posted by CastleMadeOfSand

It most certainly does. A 15 year old girl is gonna fly farther than an average person. Her bones are gonna be weaker than an average persons. She's gonna hit the wall harder than an average person. So it's ok to kill her over a "hunch"?


No, it most certainly does not. Also, she did not die and as far as we know, did not suffer any adverse injuries. You cant base your opinion off of hypotheticals or hindsight. This is what I am trying to explain to you. Its what the officer perceived at the exact moment the force was used.

Nothing else can be ontroduced into the review that explores what could have happened to the female. The question asked will be, based on what the officer perceived, was his use of force, his shoveing the girl from behind, allowable under the reasonableness standard? Was his use of that force within departmental policy based on the situation at hand. Was that use of force a violation of her constitutional rights in terms of excessive use of force.

Those questions are asked, and are then answered within the box the officer was in.

That is the standard.. That is what I am trying to get across to people.


Ok. One more time.

Lets say your 90 year old man has just been in a fight, has been drinking, might be hard of hearing and does not reply to you as he's walking away. Does that mean that a cop is justified in throwing this man against a wall at full force simply to get his side of the story?

What ever happened to discernment? Do guys not practice that anymore? If I were the officer in question, I would have put her in a bear hug and brought her down to the ground. Not throw her head into a wall.

That's what I'm trying to get across to you people.



posted on May, 6 2011 @ 08:37 PM
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Originally posted by CastleMadeOfSand
reply to post by Xcathdra
 




This is a standard scenario used to get people to understand that standard. If the guy does not stop and the officer shoots, and it turns out the guy had his wallett in his hands, that fact cannot be taken into account when determining if the officrs actions were justified or not. If the officer does not shoot, and it turns out the guy did have a gun, then the other lesson is applied.


That is understandable, I get it. But the guy who got pulled over KNEW he was getting pulled over. This girl didn't even know what hit her.


Actually when she half turned and saw the cop, she did know what was behind her. Instead of stopping, she continued to make thew attempt to leave the area.

Also, its not clear in the video if she turned around and saw the officer arrive or not. We dont see her completely until the officer comes up behind her and she half turns. For all we know its possible that she saw the officer arrive, which might be why she contonued to leave the area.

Which brings me back to my point - we dont have all of the information, just the video which people think they can base an entire incident off of.

I can show many videos that look like excesive use of force, invlcuding 1 dash cam video which shows an officer shooting a guy in the back and killing him. If it had not been for a second dash cam looking at a different angle, it enever would have been seen the guy had something in his hand and pointed it towards an officer who was off screen in the first.

I bring this up since others brought up the video footage of the kid being planeted into the wall at the movie theatre. The other thing people do is stereotype all situations involving use of force. Just because cops in England took some kids shirt, doesnt mean cops over here will do the same thing.

All professions, including law enforcement, have those people who slipped through the cracks, and absolutely they should be held accountible. All officers should be held accountible for our actions, jsut as all citizens we serve should hold themeselves accountible for their actions.

Taking one incident and saying all cops do this is no different than me stating that all of the cop haters i this thread are no talent A*s clowns and should be beaten down on general principle for their ignorant and uneducated view of the law.

Most if not all will disgaree with my last statement, and you should, because it should not apply to everyone in this thread.



posted on May, 6 2011 @ 08:37 PM
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Originally posted by Section31

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Smackdown: Police officer 'takes out drunk girl, 15, outside school in violent attack'


www.dailymail.co. uk

If you watch the clip from start to end, you will realize she was the one being held down. She must have done something to provoke the other lady to hold her down. Once the officers arrive on scene, the lady who was holding her down was still on the ground. We do not have the full story.


That other lady was her mom.



posted on May, 6 2011 @ 08:41 PM
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reply to post by Xcathdra
 


If she was walking away she posed no threat and was trying to escape confrontation. She should have been followed unconfrontationally until it was discovered whether she posed any harm to others or herself. People approaching her should have been directed away as necessary. She in no way deserved to be humiliated or had exposure directed towards her. Whatever she had done in the first place should have been taken into consideration. Her friend or whoever it was had her down and had tried to calm her. It's hard to know without audio I know. To me after she got up and was trying to leave she was in a state that she just wanted to leave and not want to be confronted. Pray you never get in this situation because you will always be harmed by some dogooder
. In this the cop because that's how he was trained to respond. Whatever her problems or situation was she deservered dignity and respect as a human being. She was unarmed obviously and if any of you disagree I hope you too get beat up by the police.



posted on May, 6 2011 @ 08:42 PM
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reply to post by CastleMadeOfSand
 


It is going to be contingent on whats going on, and will be a case by case basis. What type of fight was he involved in? Again, in this case we dont have all of the info, other than an intoxicated male was involved in a fight. The cimple fact that he is 90 and was involved in a fight tells me he is not the typical 90 year old male that we stereotype to.

The fact he is intoxicated is another factor to take into consideration.

Is the person armed? Knife, gun, glass bottle etc?

If I give loud clear verbal commands and he refuses to stop, I might employ a different method to get the person attention, but agian that is based on what I, and only what I perceive.

In the case of the q5 year old girl, its what that officer perceived, not what we think he should have done with the benefiet of 20/20 hindsight.

This is what I am trying to get you to understand. Its entirely posible another officer could ahve arrived first and used a different method to take her into custody. Again, we can explore those hypotheitcals all we want, but it wont change any of what occured or how it is reviewed.

What did the officer perceive at the exact moment he used force..

That is the question and the set of bincoluars we get to view that incident through.



posted on May, 6 2011 @ 08:42 PM
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Actually when she half turned and saw the cop, she did know what was behind her. Instead of stopping, she continued to make thew attempt to leave the area.


He was 3 steps away when she turned. Look at the pics I posted.




I bring this up since others brought up the video footage of the kid being planeted into the wall at the movie theatre. The other thing people do is stereotype all situations involving use of force. Just because cops in England took some kids shirt, doesnt mean cops over here will do the same thing.

That was Seattle Washington. Not UK.



Which brings me back to my point - we dont have all of the information, just the video which people think they can base an entire incident off of.

Just imagine how bad you guys would be if we didn't film you?



posted on May, 6 2011 @ 08:45 PM
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reply to post by michial
 


How do you come to the conclusion she posed no threat? She is intoxiacted and jsut got done assulting a teacher. Whats to say she doesnt attack the first person she comes into contact with?

Secondly, she was told to stop, and she refused.

Out of curiosity, and I have seen this in a few threads now where people suggest the person who committed an offense should be handled differently, at what point would it have been acceptable for law enforcement to approach and take her into custody?

You do understand that if she had the ability to see what was coming at her, that she could have injured the officer, or even herself by being able to resist in a different manner.

Our goal is the end and encounter as quickley, safely and using the least amount of force neccissary (which is again officer discretion based on the situation). If we give the person a heads up, and have sayu another 5 officers arrive on scene, there is a chance that will inflame the situation even more, and cause her to resist that much more, and with more officers, there is also the chance of injuries occuring to her.

Again, hindsight is 20/20 and not allowable when reviewing a use of force while playing the what if game.
edit on 6-5-2011 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 6 2011 @ 08:48 PM
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Some stupid girls got drunk and starting fighting, the police officer stopped the fight using non-lethal force.
I don't see any problem here. I think the officer did exactly what was his duty to do, to keep the peace.

Maybe if the kids mommy and daddy had taught her how to treat people and not to drink at 15 then she wouldn't have got a beatdown from officer bauldy.

"Move along, nothing to see here."



posted on May, 6 2011 @ 08:49 PM
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reply to post by Xcathdra
 




If I give loud clear verbal commands and he refuses to stop, I might employ a different method to get the person attention, but agian that is based on what I, and only what I perceive.


So you are conceding that his use of force was excessive, and had another officer been involved, would have ended differently. You are saying he is in the wrong. Thank you! My point has been proven.

Good night all.

.......Please don't blanket all cops as being bad. There are far more good ones out there than there are ones like the officers in the videos posted. We need the good cops on our side when and if the SHTF.



posted on May, 6 2011 @ 08:50 PM
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reply to post by Xcathdra
 


I can see why hindsight can't be taken in to consideration at the time, I think it also helps what I was trying to say though. Just say which I'm assuming, she didn't have a weapon after he walked her off, and she sustained injury to her brain. He would still probably get away with it, for being right at the time. Then his life goes on while she deals with the consequences for his actions. I think since hindsight is 20/20 that we should take more caution in those situations. I do get that in some of those it can be life or death.

Regardless if he was right or wrong, he excessively pushed her in to that wall, I just don't think being drunk at 15 is a good reason to explain to your kids one day, why you have seizures all the time. & just like she could of had a weapon, she could of had brain damage. I don't want you to get me wrong though, I know from personal experience that a situation can seem cool and calm. Then change in the blink of an eye, people can be very masterful at trickery. I just wonder if he realizes what he almost did, and that maybe he made the wrong choice to be so excessive. Maybe he didn't mean to hit her in a wall that hard I don't know I'm not him.

I just worry sometimes that some cops, are wired from having to put their life on the line in dangerous situations. & maybe that can overflow on to the less violent offenders. Just like all cops aren't the same, neither are all us citizens, it's a shame we can't have the benefit of the doubt though. It can cost you your life, I get it, just in this case, It nearly could of cost this girl her own.

Respectfully

TSIR



posted on May, 6 2011 @ 08:50 PM
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This is one of the most socially disgusting videos I have ever seen. First we have the drunk teenager who is VICIOUSLY abusing another teenage girl. I mean seriously, what the ****. We have the woman in pink who is TOTALLY incompetent. "Oh, maybe if I ask politely they will stop." And to top it all off, the grand finale, the power trip "take justice into my own hands" cop. Is this REALLY what America has come to? Is this who we have become?!

I'm going to go be physically ill now. That is the only appropriate response to this video.



posted on May, 6 2011 @ 08:52 PM
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Originally posted by CastleMadeOfSand
reply to post by Xcathdra
 




If I give loud clear verbal commands and he refuses to stop, I might employ a different method to get the person attention, but agian that is based on what I, and only what I perceive.


So you are conceding that his use of force was excessive, and had another officer been involved, would have ended differently. You are saying he is in the wrong. Thank you! My point has been proven.

Good night all.

.......Please don't blanket all cops as being bad. There are far more good ones out there than there are ones like the officers in the videos posted. We need the good cops on our side when and if the SHTF.



Wow you're really arrogent to take that attitude.
That stupid drunk 15 year old kid will sue the police force for more money than you earn a year, the police officer will lose his job and his family will be ruined. Why? Because some people got offended by reality.



posted on May, 6 2011 @ 08:53 PM
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Originally posted by SpookyFox
Some stupid girls got drunk and starting fighting, the police officer stopped the fight using non-lethal force.
I don't see any problem here. I think the officer did exactly what was his duty to do, to keep the peace.

Maybe if the kids mommy and daddy had taught her how to treat people and not to drink at 15 then she wouldn't have got a beatdown from officer bauldy.

"Move along, nothing to see here."


If she had been a few more inches closer to the wall, it would have been lethal. You are new here so I will bite my tongue this time.

But you are right, there is nothing to see in your post. So move along.



posted on May, 6 2011 @ 08:55 PM
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reply to post by CastleMadeOfSand
 


People can film me all they want provided it doesnt interfere with my job or place anyone in danger by their actions.

We are wired from head to toe with audio and video, so the assertion that we would behave differently is based on nothing but an inaccurate stereotype that assumes all officers misbehave.

Tasers have audio / video recording on them.
Some departments are also moveing to body cameras in addition to our mics.
We have cameras / audio in our vehicles.
Some departments are testing audio / video on our duty wapons.

We have people recording us, as in this case...

What more do you want? The simple notion that a camera will deter an officer from doing there job is incorrect. If anything ,you will most likely see more incidents that you will perceive as an excessive use of force, when in reality its not. All I can do is provide the info where you guys can look and see what criteria is used, and compare that to how you guys reach your conclusions.

You say officers should be held ot a higher standard and I agree. But to not allow an officer to explain their side of the story before you guys drag him out and put his back to a wall is hypocritical to say the least.

To complain about aqn officers use of force while making comments that the officer should be killed? Howe exactly is that not an excessive use of force, in addition to their civil rights violation of no trial, no due process before punishment is handed out. I think thatys where some of you guys lose sight of the issue.

The cop was not punishing the girl, he was taking her into custody. Huge difference.

As a civilian, you actually have greater protections than what we do.

In addition to being read Miranda, we are also read our garrity rights. Because we have a chain of command, we can be ordered to provide information that can incriminate ourselves. Failure to obey the command of a superior can result in our trmination, even if its to protect our right against self incrimination.

So yes, we are held to a higher standard.



posted on May, 6 2011 @ 08:55 PM
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Originally posted by SpookyFox

Originally posted by CastleMadeOfSand
reply to post by Xcathdra
 




If I give loud clear verbal commands and he refuses to stop, I might employ a different method to get the person attention, but agian that is based on what I, and only what I perceive.


So you are conceding that his use of force was excessive, and had another officer been involved, would have ended differently. You are saying he is in the wrong. Thank you! My point has been proven.

Good night all.

.......Please don't blanket all cops as being bad. There are far more good ones out there than there are ones like the officers in the videos posted. We need the good cops on our side when and if the SHTF.



Wow you're really arrogent to take that attitude.
That stupid drunk 15 year old kid will sue the police force for more money than you earn a year, the police officer will lose his job and his family will be ruined. Why? Because some people got offended by reality.


That's laughable

I can see your stay here at ATS will be a short one!
Check your inbox.




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