satan the messiah??, page 3
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reply posted on 18-8-2004 @ 11:32 PM by thethrall_nb
Originally posted by soothsayer
Now, I cannot provide Biblical accounts or texts relating to Satan/Lucifer being the angel of light, the bringer of fire and music... those are in other texts not recognized by the Church, or they are cross examinations of other myths and legends, but as for Satan being God's right hand man...

It is a matter of simple deduction.

God's gift to mankind was free-will... the ability to choose and do what we want. Angels do not have this, they must do as God tells them, every single one.

That is, of course, with the exception of Satan.

How else can one explain how Satan decided to overthrow God, and start a rebellion? How else can it be said that Satan thought himself better than God, if he had not the free-will to think so?

Satan had free-will and freedom of thought, and had the ability to act out his own agenda.

Now, then, another point, with Satan being equal to God...

Satan was able to convince and lead an equal share of the angelic hosts in this rebellion. How? We already know angels do not posses free-will... how then were the angels divided? Satan had to exercise his powers over them, excert his will... which flies right in the face of excepted doctrine... Satan had command over the angels.

Does this not make sense?

Now, then, we have a dilema... if Satan did not have free-will, then God told him to rebel, to take half the angels with him... if Satan did not have free-will, that means everything Satan was held accountable for in the Bible is merely Satan following orders, from the Garden of Eden to Job to the temptation of Christ, and all points in between.

Did I mention Job? Another point as to the equality...

God took council with Satan. God condemned a man, a faithful man, to a life of death, despair, and misery, all because God and Satan had a bet. God could not just command Satan away, God could not have just told Satan he was wrong... God had to prove it to Satan. Why? If Satan was a lesser being, why would God have to prove, why would He even have to except a challenge, from him?

It is because they are equals, both God and Satan represent the ying/yang duelistic natures. In my opinion, God is the female, Satan the male... but that's on a different post...

OH! About my being unable to give biblical accounts of Satan/Lucifer being light/fire/music... I can easily show you where it states Satan is the Angel of Judgement, if that helps...

On a side note...

Anyone ever notice Satan is just the "Prince" of Darkness? Who is the "King" of Darkness then? Surely not God...

Another side note...

Satan and Lucifer ARE the same being, if you read the King James Bible... and since Lucifer means "Light Bringer"... hmm...



It's not merely a matter of being "equals".. so much as it is of being two parts of a whole.... there can be no light without darkness, nor darkness without light.


reply posted on 19-8-2004 @ 08:50 PM by dbrandt
Originally posted by soothsayer
The God of this World

They could draw some support for this opinion from the New Testament. In the story of temptation in the wilderness, the Devil offers Jesus 'all the kingdoms of the world and the glory of them' (Matthew, chapter 4), with clear implication that the gift is his to make. In St John's gospel (12:31) the Devil is called 'the ruler of this world', and St Paul calls him 'the god of this world' (2 Corinthians 4:4). And the belief that this evil god of Yahweh could have been supported from another passage in St John (8:44), where Jesus tells the Jews that their Father is not God but the Devil.


[edit on 19-8-2004 by soothsayer]




In the first reference satan was trying to get Jesus to bypass the cross. In the others, yes, satan is a being with "power". satan is not God or a God but desires to be. He is a "god" in the sense that he can infiltrate and try to deceive mankind and mess with us. Sometimes successfully and other times not successfully. The last one is very blunt. If you have not come back to God the Father in the way He has given us then you belong to satan. satan still has you deceived. God the Father tells us, christians will share evrerything in creation. If you refuse to leave the side of satan, you will share it what he has coming, hell. It's very blunt and people don't like that. But it also leaves no middle ground.

I don't care for a football game that ends in a tie. God and satan will not end up in a tie. Jesus won the game for us, there is a loser and he's a very poor sport.


reply posted on 20-8-2004 @ 12:51 AM by ShawNee922
The author thinks he is crazy, he aint seen chit yet, heh

I Read all the posts and don't know where to start so I will just print some random thoughts that your posts stirred in me ....



"...He threw out several verses and such to further support his claim, but the one that really took my breath was Rev. 22:16 --where Jesus says "I am...the Morning Star." ( Lucifer is also called the Morning Star!) "

....

Where does Lucifer get called the Morning Star?? ... That is not true...

This is the verse you are referring to? >
Isa 14:12 -
How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!


Son of the dawn of time is what Lucifer is called here NOT morning star...


Ezekiel goes on to tell us that Lucifer "walked amongst the stones of fire" .

Stones of fire = planets ....
Lucifer and his band of renegade cherubim traveled from planet to planet via a shuttle(the same sort that led moses) ...

The bible even tells us the name of the planet Lucifer lived on, Rahab.. It blew up from its core and create the asteroid belt...Ya, the asteroids(halle bop, haley comet, etc) follow the same orbit that Rahab once traveled around the Sun....

Ps 89:10 - Show Context
Thou hast broken Rahab in pieces, as one that is slain; thou hast scattered thine enemies with thy strong arm.

Isa 51:9 - Show Context
Awake, awake, put on strength, O arm of the LORD; awake, as in the ancient days, in the generations of old. Art thou not it that hath cut Rahab, and wounded the dragon?<(Rahab destruction changed certain constellations)

note- genesis 6 refers to the offspring of the union between sons of god(literally made by the hands of elohim) and earth women as " men of old" ...
They were the offspring of Lucifer and his renegade scientist buddies...

.....


The garden of eden is the human body... Adam the subconscious mind and eve(help meet) the conscious mind...

As for Satan , make no mistake about it ,, Satan was a MURDERER from the beginning...
The original sin in the garden is one of 'procreation' among creatures with mutated genes.... Death is a Universal(FATHER) mandate of procreation... " When you eat you will surely die" ....

Again, Satan was a murderer from the beginning ... SATAN is not a person Satan is a mutation of genes, or the adversary of life ...
-1Co 5:5 - Show Context
To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
Lu 13:16 - Show Context
And ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan hath bound, lo, these eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the sabbath day?

I liken the relationship between the elohim and satan to one between medical researchers and disease...

......

I hear a lot of talk about "god" in this thread but nobody has attempted to translate it ...
Elohim is the word for god and it is PLURAL ...
Those who came from the sky crossed their own DNA with an already 'evolving' species here on Earth....
Cro-Magnon is the result of this experiment...

If you study the relationship between neanderthal man and Cro-Magnon you will see a mirror image of the relationship between giants and man.

The Father spoken of by Christ is the Universe, a living breathing, THINKING entity,
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
Define word?
A vessel that projects thoughts into the World....
verbal thought ....
In the beginning was the THOUGHT, and the thought was with 'god' and the thought was 'god' ...

god is a evolutionary creation of the Universe, who in turn created humans and this is the transgression against the father, or Universe.. Life WILL evolve, creatures already evolved have no place contaminating life that is in the process of Evolving under the Fathers eye . In doing so they condemn the genes of those life-forms who are striving to be as their superior ancestors to a mutation known as cancer... The genes of neanderthal man strived to become as those of the Nephilim thereby turning cancerous and bringing extinction to the species...

Now, when you eat you will surely die means little if you could eat and still live 1,000 years and then only you die for your 'sin'... BUT if it is referring to your whole entire species dying off, well, that is a lot more severe....(note- lifespans began decreasing)

" my spirit shall not always strive with the man, for also he is flesh... Yet his days shall be 120 years..."

Layman terms, " the bad news is that the genes of the man have been mutated, the good news is it will take upto 120 years for the mutation to kill that man.... "


..Jesus told the most religious men on Earth, men who knew the god of Abraham intimately, point blank...

"you have NEVER known my father " ... He did not say sometimes you do, sometimes you don't, he said you have NEVER known my Father...They are worshipping an imposter..

The truth is that damn near everytime Jesus opened his mouth he was speaking of the Universe, and its solar systems. " in my fathers house their are many mansions" OR " In the UNIVERSE there are many life supporting planets"

Almost all of the book of john speaks on the Universe....

"


Jesus even called one of his disciples a " PLANET" ... " upon this STONE(peter)... "

" i go to prepare a place for you" was jesus telling people that the sub-atomic partices and atoms(romans 1:19ish) that make a flesh body belong to the father or the Universe, The Universe uses these particles to help it expand and create new solar systems.... Upon his physical death his particles will be released and finally allowed to go and do their thing... Those who follow his ascension procedures will join him there, we will be as ONE solar system..
note- our particles are just a part of what creates solar system, there are other parts as well...
" Joh 10:16 - Show Context
And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring"


Those who do not follow the procedure will find their intellect in a black hole(hell), to be used to fuel a Sun that will one day support life producing planets....( black holes are probably producing Suns and not swallowing them)

I think it becomes clearer EXACTLY why they crucified him when u look at it in this light... They were worship a tangible being whose image was like their own and whom they could imitate, while Jesus was endorsing the notion that the Universe was a living entity that had dominion over ALL ...


Lucifer proclaimed, " I WILL ascend into the highest heaven" ....

To a human the highest heaven is the place where their 'god' resides...

To a 'god' the highest heaven is the heart of the man....the heart resides in our intellect, not the chest as has been taught. When your heart breaks the pain is in your mind not your chest)

Lucifer proclaimed," I WILL convince the mans intellect that I am the most high."

And then they wrote the Bible...

Every church on every corner in America is worshipping LUCIFER and they don't even have a clue about it .... or in clearer terms , they worship Anti-Christ,,, that is to say," (he)in place of christ .."

They await the return of a flesh man who is a long time gone... They will get their wish though, a man is coming who will claim to be Jesus, His real name will be Lucifer ...

REV 10:1 And I saw another mighty angel(direct reference to gen 6) come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire posing as christ)

REV 10:2 And he had in his hand a little book open the bible) and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot on the earth,

REV 10:3 And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices.

REV 10:4 And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not.

REV 10:5 And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven,

REV 10:6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:

REV 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

REV 10:8 And the voice which I heard from heaven spake unto me again, and said, Go and take the little book which is open in the hand of the angel which standeth upon the sea and upon the earth.

REV 10:9 And I went unto the angel, and said unto him, Give me the little book. And he said unto me, Take it, and eat it up; and it shall make thy belly bitter, but it shall be in thy mouth sweet as honey

REV 10:10 And I took the little book out of the angel's hand, and ate it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter.

REV 10:11 And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.



For the record- Jesus was born into the false jew religion(worship of ET's) but he was a gnostic, his teachings that were left out the bible clearly show this..

He rebuked the jews and their religion and then they killed him for it....No government killed him, simply because he had no beef with any government..
Altho,
Herod had a beef with him but that was only because herod was born at gaza, the land of the giants, who are the sons of the Elohim(GOD) that Jesus would grow up to warn mankind about...


ok, i am tired, and therefore done for now.... lol

~peace


reply posted on 20-8-2004 @ 10:53 AM by frayed1
"Where does Lucifer get called the Morning Star?? ... That is not true...

This is the verse you are referring to? >
Isa 14:12 -
How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!"

Shawnee, I did not say the Bible called Lucifer 'the morning star'. The only verse I refered to was the Rev. verse that quoted Jesus. Do you have a Jewish/Hebrew dictionary ? The def. of 'morning star' is supposed to include Lucifer. ( after I had read the Sollog site, I asked a friend 'who would you say is called the morning star?' and the response was 'Lucifer'. So I'm not the only one who thought that sounded familiar.)

The main thrust of my post was to inquire if anyone had heard of the Sollog guy, or had seen his web site.

Stoneskull, Don't be so hard on the old prof. it's been 30 years and I was quoting from memory. But the back of my KJV, that was published in Mich. by Zondervan Pub, (showing no particular author for the back section) says "Hebrew and Aramic was the oringnal language of the gospel.....must have soon after been translated into the Greek, the Hebrew form fell out of use, as most Christians spoke Greek.....all 4 gospels were published under the name of "Diatessaron" , about this time all four seem to have been trans lated into latin, soon after into Syriac, and then into Egyptian dialects." Sounds like the old prof fell some where in there with this publishers after- word.

Again, my main thrust was to make the point that translations often lose some things. For instance Shawnee thought I had said the Bible called Lucifer the 'Morning Star' when said ( Lucifer is called the Morning Star).
See how that got lost, without even being translated!!



[edit on 20-8-2004 by frayed1]

[edit on 20-8-2004 by frayed1]
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