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Human Sacrifice in the Old Testament (No, not Abraham!)

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posted on May, 6 2011 @ 09:22 AM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


*Ahem*


And Jephthah vowed a vow unto the LORD, and said, If thou shalt without fail deliver the children of Ammon into mine hands,
Then it shall be, that whatsoever cometh forth of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return in peace from the children of Ammon, shall surely be the LORD'S, and I will offer it up for a burnt offering.
So Jephthah passed over unto the children of Ammon to fight against them; and the LORD delivered them into his hands.


Yahweh seems to have no problem with the arrangement and seems to fulfill that end of the bargain.




posted on May, 6 2011 @ 09:27 AM
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reply to post by eight bits
 


If one man,only one,can save his soul because of my words then i will not stop talking...God is very real,you can see him in every aspect of your life if you choose to.
Gods message is love,not hate...the actions of men are his actions,and God is simply showing you a road,you can decide for yourself...The right way will not be easy,there will be those who will curse you,and persecute you,but in that times we remember that God gave his son to save us!
We are souls,bodies are just material possessions,they can take everything you have,but they can NEVER take your faith,because God has given us the possibility of free choice.
Read Bible,but not with your minds,but your hearts,if you seek the truth the truth will be revealed to you.

God is love



posted on May, 6 2011 @ 09:29 AM
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reply to post by AlwaysStoned
 



Originally posted by AlwaysStoned
reply to post by madnessinmysoul
 


Ok,i understand from your post that you have refused to take my words of good will and do some research,it is always easier to find what fits your little reality...


I've actually done a lot of research. If anything, I tend to be more informed on these matters than most Christians.



So you say science and brains are more important that what is right,


...I never said that science is somehow more important than what is right...I said that science and reason are good things. Of course, even good things can be used for ill purposes. I can take a roast turkey and taunt starving children with it...which would be horrible. Or I could give the roast turkey to the starving children. Which would be good. The roast turkey is good either way.



i ask you,how much pain and suffering science have bring to this world?
Human testings,animal testings,nuclear power,weaponry...drugs,do i need to go further?


Medical advances from that testing, the thousands of homes powered by nuclear reactors, the life saving drugs that are developed, the fact that we can feed billions of people, the internet (which you have no problem with), the increased life spans...I mean, we've doubled the human life in two generations. Hell, we know more about the universe now than at any point in history.

Oh, and drugs are pre-science. Opiates were known of at the very least prior to Alexander the Great...but I'm not 100% sure when they were first introduced.



Science


It works.



Please understand i am not writing this because you insulted me or Bible,i am writing all of this because every man is Gods and he loves us all,and he wants our souls to be saved.


So you're just here to preach instead of to discuss the issue I brought up?



100s of millions christians didn't die for nothing,


Well...I'd say not that many people have died in the name of Christianity...so...I'm guessing some of them died for their countries, families, friends, some passed peacefully in their beds, who knows what they died for.

And that would still be an argumentum ad populum. It doesn't matter how many people die for a cause, it does nothing to validate it.



the prophecy has been fulfilled and is unfolding in front of your eyes,you just have to choose to see it,and turn to Christ:


Not really...so...um...citation needed.



I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.


John 14:6


Um...should I quote every other holy book at you?


I was a non believer,a hater,of God,but i have begged for wisdom and i have been blessed.
Love is the only way


I'm a non-believer...but I don't hate your deity. Why? Well...for the same reason I don't hate unicorns. I'm a non-believer.



posted on May, 6 2011 @ 09:31 AM
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reply to post by AlwaysStoned
 


Love is all great...except it resides in the brain. The website you linked me isn't actually any sort of scientific study. Care to actually find a piece of proper scientific literature to back something up?



posted on May, 6 2011 @ 09:35 AM
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reply to post by madnessinmysoul
 



Yahweh seems to have no problem with the arrangement and seems to fulfill that end of the bargain.


I can read. The Lord didn't command the sacrifice to be made. And there is no indication God accepted it either.

Did you miss the part about fire from heaven in the OT times for a "sign" of God's approval of a burnt offering?



posted on May, 6 2011 @ 10:28 AM
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Madness


Wow, more straw manning. What I'm saying is that the deity accepted the initial bargain...which could have included a goat for all we know.

Really? So, in your view, the Hebrews did not believe in an omniscient God? And so, God was in some suspense as to who would come out of Jephthah's house first? Interesting.

However, back to the point. If you have a straight explanation of how God didn't accept Jephthah's holocaust, then please just tell it, otherwise, let us celebrate our agreement that God didn't accept a human sacrifice.


... but it does not interfere as it does in the Abraham narrative.

Of course not. In Genesis, God directed Abraham to sacrifice Isaac, and then countermanded his direction. In Judges, Jephthah is the one doing all the directing.

There surely was no "bargain." As you point out, Genesis settles that that sort of bargain simply isn't on offer. There was, however, the vow, and of course Jephthah kept it, but not because God made Jephthah keep his vow, anymore than his gods made Oedipus put out his eyes, or her gods made Antigone accept entombment alive.


AlwaysStoned

Sorry, I wasn't able to put together how what you wrote had anything to do with my post. Maybe you meant to reply to somebody else?



posted on May, 6 2011 @ 12:58 PM
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Actually, conscripted service for virgins were common in Israel just as it is in many religions today where parents encourage one of their children to dedicate their lives to God.

"And he made the laver of brass, and the foot of it of brass, of the lookingglasses of the women assembling, which assembled at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation." - Exodus 38:8

"And she vowed a vow, and said, O LORD of hosts, if thou wilt indeed look on the affliction of thine handmaid, and remember me, and not forget thine handmaid, but wilt give unto thine handmaid a man child, then I will give him unto the LORD all the days of his life, and there shall no razor come upon his head." - 1 Samuel 1:11

Now for the language lesson. The word in Hebrew that was originally translated into Lament by the Latin Vulgate is תּנה or tânâh (taw-naw'). It actually means to ascribe praise and honor or celebrate. The word has grossly been mistranslated. The only reason "lament" shows up in Strongs is because of the Latin Vulgate. Ask someone who speaks Hebrew.

Here's what God thinks about blood sacrifice of humans.

"Thou shalt not do so unto the LORD thy God: for every abomination to the LORD, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods." - Deuteronomy 12:31



posted on May, 6 2011 @ 04:39 PM
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And what is your point madness?

You spend SO much time bashing Christianity and the Bible, it's quite ridiculous. I hold the belief that you want to believe so very badly, but your "logic" just won't let you.



posted on May, 6 2011 @ 08:21 PM
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reply to post by graphuto
 


I am getting the same feeling...he doesn't believe...but doesn't hate him,but why would have someone twist His word to spread lies if one does not believe,the problem is you must accept God in your soul.
Everything material is just keeping us away from that.

for madness:
Science can be used in a good way,but it NEVER was,and never will be,because the greed of the human race,and the need for material possessions is keeping us away from God...
Think about it,how many people didn't even bother to read Bible because they heard that it is a lie,a myth...

I think these are the end times that the Bible is speaking of,and this is your last chance to accept God and his forgiveness

Peace

edit on 6-5-2011 by AlwaysStoned because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 6 2011 @ 09:22 PM
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reply to post by madnessinmysoul
 


Actually, thank you. That was a great observation.

"The people of Berea were much nicer than those in Thessalonica, and they gladly accepted the message. Day after day they studied the Scriptures to see if these things were true." - Acts 17:11 CEV



posted on May, 6 2011 @ 11:10 PM
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reply to post by CodeRed3D
 


Thank you for that passage,it really made my day...i think that people reject Jesus and salvation because it is easier to live our lives filled with sin and hate,forgiveness and love are a hard task.



posted on Jun, 7 2011 @ 03:15 PM
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I think we should all be aware that Jephthah made that vow after the Spirit of the LORD came on him.


Judges 11v29
Then the Spirit of the LORD came on Jephthah


The argument that this was a lesson to be learnt about making vows is invalid. This isn't the only human sacrifice to Yahweh in the old testament anyway



posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 06:30 AM
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Originally posted by BrokenCircles

Originally posted by Schkeptick
Not you again! What is your problem? Why don't you just ignore the Bible if it bothers you so much?

That statement works the same even if it is reversed. You ready? Watch this-

Not you again! What is your problem? Why don't you just ignore this member's posts if they bother you so much?

Oh come on! If he was ignored, he would start a thread wanting to know why other atheists got a response, but he was ignored! Then his head would explode...



posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 07:15 AM
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Originally posted by AlwaysStoned
I will completely ignore your statement as it is obviously false,for God loves us so much that he sent His son to die for our sins.
If you do a little research you will find that the Bible has fulfilled its prophecies and people are still in this day,persecuted,and insulted for what they preach and believe,and that is love,for God is love.
Satan hates love and loves fear,he is the ruler of this material world.
100 millions of lives where given for you to know this truth and be saved,it is for you to accept it or reject it...
I hated God,and i loved sin...thanks to Him my eyes are opened now and i try to give my heart to Him.

I am saying this not because i think its right,but in my heart i know,and my mission is to spread the good news.
God loves you


A sermon fitting well to Ouroboro'ism. It's based on something biting it's own tail (for the philosophically advanced: Circle-reasoning):




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