NEWS: Vatican Warns Modern Feminism Dangerous

Without actually using the words "Modern Feminism" the actual Vatican document does define modern feminism in the following quote:

2. Recent years have seen new approaches to women's issues. A first tendency is to emphasize strongly conditions of subordination in order to give rise to antagonism: women, in order to be themselves, must make themselves the adversaries of men. Faced with the abuse of power, the answer for women is to seek power. This process leads to opposition between men and women, in which the identity and role of one are emphasized to the disadvantage of the other, leading to harmful confusion regarding the human person, which has its most immediate and lethal effects in the structure of the family.

What do you think they are talking about?

The use of the words modern feminism is a good summary of what is being said above.. and throughout the document issued by the Vatican.

Gazz

Originally posted by UM_Gazz
Without actually using the words "Modern Feminism" the actual Vatican document does define modern feminism in the following quote:

What do you think they are talking about?

Gazz

I think that the document is discussing that certain aspects of todays society are prone to create an antagonistic relationship between the sexes, and it's something to be careful about. You really have to read the document as a whole. Here is something towards the end, more of a conclusion to things that were discussed earlier in the document:

"Therefore, the promotion of women within society must be understood and desired as a humanization accomplished through those values, rediscovered thanks to women. Every outlook which presents itself as a conflict between the sexes is only an illusion and a danger: it would end in segregation and competition between men and women, and would promote a solipsism nourished by a false conception of freedom.

Without prejudice to the advancement of women's rights in society and the family, these observations seek to correct the perspective which views men as enemies to be overcome. The proper condition of the male-female relationship cannot be a kind of mistrustful and defensive opposition. Their relationship needs to be lived in peace and in the happiness of shared love.

On a more concrete level, if social policies � in the areas of education, work, family, access to services and civic participation � must combat all unjust sexual discrimination, they must also listen to the aspirations and identify the needs of all. The defence and promotion of equal dignity and common personal values must be harmonized with attentive recognition of the difference and reciprocity between the sexes where this is relevant to the realization of one's humanity, whether male or female."

I really don't think this is the horror story everyone is making it out to be.

Bush is against same sex marriage
Kerry is against same sex marraige
So am I

There is no way to prove that the movement of feminism gives homosexuality movement a boost of anyway. Feminism actually creates an environment where people of two different sexes work together. It is just one of many civil rights movement in the US during the last 50 years that is working its way into our daily lives.

To many other countries, the idea of women are below men are still exists. Take the Middle East for instance, girls cannot go to school after the age of 13. In Asia, women do not have any protection from the law against everything, from spouse abuse to workplace abuse.

Vatican and the world is a step behind the US in terms of civil rights movement. I think it is good that Vatican is against this because it creates like a check and balance system. This ensures that we of the opposite view don't go too far.

This matter is really confusing but Vatican is not making sense of out the it by issuing this statement.

After years of sexual abuse scandals the Vatican now chooses to complain that a womans' role in western society today may be not be ideal.

Way to go guys. Talk about get your priorities straight.

.....and talk about state the obvious - even if your conclusions are totally up the wall, if not out-right stupid and stupidly irrelevant.

Of course women have an unsatisfactory place in western society today, mainly because despite 30yrs of claiming the genuine equality that is their undeniable right it still does not exist.

....and before any smart-mouth idiot does the usual dumb commentary with the usual 'I'm only joking, haven't you got a sense of humour' cover this is my daughter, my wife, my sister, my mother, my grandmother we're talking about.

Why should their life-opportunities and their potential be diminished just because of their gender......and (if you want a selfish angle on it) why should I put up with the women in my life achieving less than they might just because of their gender.

Sexism is an issue that's of great importance for men and women. True equality benefits us all.



[edit on 31-7-2004 by sminkeypinkey]

Originally posted by sminkeypinkey

Why should their life-opportunities and their potential be diminished just because of their gender......and (if you want a selfish angle on it) why should I put up with the women in my life achieving less than they might just because of their gender.

Sexism is an issue that's of great importance for men and women. True equality benefits us all.



[edit on 31-7-2004 by sminkeypinkey]

Hey - did you read the document? Or how bout even the whole thread.

You seem to have missed something, but if you only read the other assumptions posted, I can see where you are getting the wrong idea from.

Feminism has destroyed the traditional family already.

Pope just wake up or something?

Does it really mater that it did? We are on a Journey to somewere and I cannot say weather the destruction of traditional family is good, or bad for humanity, but I can say kids these days are more arrogant and independant than ever before. I am not sure thats bad either. Women not fullfilling the traditional mother role is certainly changing society. Society does not appear to be getting better either heh.

X

I have to say that the same interpretation I am getting from this documents is women do not argue and fight your husbands or men stay quiet and do not fight for power being a too feminist is not acceptable for the church whoa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!I am going to burn in hell.

This is the interpretation I get. This is my opinion and for what I can read on other members post in this thread I guess I agree with them.


[edit on 31-7-2004 by marg6043]

Originally posted by Xeven
Feminism has destroyed the traditional family already.

...I cannot say weather the destruction of traditional family is good, or bad for humanity, but I can say kids these days are more arrogant and independant than ever before. I am not sure thats bad either. Women not fullfilling the traditional mother role is certainly changing society. Society does not appear to be getting better either heh.

Excuse me...feminism has destroyed the family?? Women were successfully heading and supporting families before anyone ever thought of feminism.
IMHO, the need for two income parents is impacting families. We are not talking here of the high-achiever couple without children, where the woman strives to rise as high as she can in her chosen profession.
We are talking about the parents who need to both work to have a decent quality of life for them and their children.

Therefore, Marg, I tend to go along with your thoughts.
Nah, you're not going to hell. Firstly, I don't think you're a bad person. Secondly, guess who created hell?

Thanks, I am so humble by your coments, at least we can agree on something.

INTRODUCTION

1. The Church, expert in humanity,,,

Vatican letter

Pride before a fall. . .

Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe

Originally posted by Xeven
Feminism has destroyed the traditional family already.

...I cannot say weather the destruction of traditional family is good, or bad for humanity, but I can say kids these days are more arrogant and independant than ever before. I am not sure thats bad either. Women not fullfilling the traditional mother role is certainly changing society. Society does not appear to be getting better either heh.

Excuse me...feminism has destroyed the family?? Women were successfully heading and supporting families before anyone ever thought of feminism.
IMHO, the need for two income parents is impacting families. We are not talking here of the high-achiever couple without children, where the woman strives to rise as high as she can in her chosen profession.
We are talking about the parents who need to both work to have a decent quality of life for them and their children.

Therefore, Marg, I tend to go along with your thoughts.
Nah, you're not going to hell. Firstly, I don't think you're a bad person. Secondly, guess who created hell?

Oddly enough I think we agree! Chicken came before the egg? Ponder that one

[edit on 31-7-2004 by Xeven]

Originally posted by marg6043
Thanks, I am so humble by your coments, at least we can agree on something.

Politics aside, we are both women.
It seems we almost always agree about women issues. I have thoughts about the reality of women in a male-dominated world, but that is another story for another time.

Text Black
Honestly,this is my first post on here but this story is even to ridiculous for me to let pass without making a few comments so here goes.
1. If the Vatican would do some "scientific" research to try to explain some of the stupid ass dogma's that the Church trys to cling to some might see that even the scientific communtiy has regretfully come forth with some eviedence that may point to higher estrogen and testosterone levels in HUMAN BEINGS you know HOMOsapiens.
2. I am a female. I am not satan. I didn't get to vote on alot of policies that have been put here by the Catholic Church and yet I still see this was printed as ligitimate news somewhere in some paper and the sad thing about it is some people willl never even begin to understand what this statemnet means because they will never take the time to research who ,what , when, where, and why for themselves and just take what they have been programmed to believe and build a life on that.
3.Directly for the Catholic's (and don't even start the whole I do not support this issue thing with me, either your in or your out) and your "Pope", Try another angle 'cause this one is not very effective due to the fact that Women do not have near as much political, ethical, or Religous influence as you are trying to give us credit for. Hell, next we'll be held accountable for giving birth to children with higher I.Q's than your precious church and the member's whom so faithfully follow All Your Fine Upstanding examples of Humanism. And in that case we better all run for it now because my 7 year old is more accepting than the Catholic's, as well as other's, of what makes us unique and individual and important in this chaos we label "life".
Anyway, I will hop on down now and for those of you who may even wonder who I am I am a 29 year old high school dropout who was raised in the south by a northern family so more or less I became the "Bad Seed" a long time ago. Half of my family were Catholic but I was not raised with any particular religious veiws and I may not be grammatically correct all the time but I do still have a brain and they come in all shapes and sizes just like people. It looks to me like alot of people would do well to just try to think about that for awhile.........................


Oh, NO! SHE WON'T BE QUIET>>>>SHOULD WE KILL HER, LOCK HER UP, OR WATCH HER>>>>?????????????????????????????????????

[edit on 31/7/2004 by justus]

[edit on 31/7/2004 by justus]

Justus,

You are so right, I raised my daughter to never be ashame to be a women and to fight for her rights and to be as smart as opinonated as she can be and no to let anybody to take her rights away.

Justus your are a mother and you should be proud of yourself, for the single reason of being a women and raise your son like I have raised mine to respect women so they can get respect back. Go girl

[edit on 1-8-2004 by marg6043]

Originally posted by Relentless


Hey - did you read the document? Or how bout even the whole thread.

You seem to have missed something, but if you only read the other assumptions posted, I can see where you are getting the wrong idea from.

- um, the Vatican claimed women's characteristic traits: 'Listening, welcoming, humility, faithfulness, praise and waiting.'

Now if you see a gender-blind equality in that feel free.