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Unconditional Love and God
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reply to post by mathematic
What you say is interesting...im going to request you guys read a story i have read a few times now called "The egg" its about the universe being a "God" Fetus.
What you say is interesting...im going to request you guys read a story i have read a few times now called "The egg" its about the universe being a "God" Fetus.
Originally posted by UnknownPhilosopher
reply to post by Akragon
Intersting you say this. Most people dont think to look at that. It is typically taken for granted. He doesn't ever claim to god but claims to be of god and the son of god which we all claim. As well many argue that he said he was the messiah, which we all know was a form of political and spiritual leader but not god himself. I am glad you brought that up (without throwing too much of my own beliefs in there). Its a very important aspect to consider.edit on 5-5-2011 by UnknownPhilosopher because: (no reason given)
I've heard many things about him. I've read he was the first born spirit, but those are also the same people who have claimed he was God. One thing you can't do when reading the bible is assume. The man never once made that claim. He did say he is the son of God. He even corrects the jews in once instance when they said, "we condem you because you make yourself God" in reply he says " you condem me because i said i was the son of God?"
To each their own belief, i will not judge another soul. There are certian things we can know are true about him. He did not lie, nor did he sin (at least not in the bible or during his ministry ) he did not assume anything of anyone. So why should we not give him the same respect? He never once made the claim to be God, so i can't assume he was God in the flesh any more then any other man. Though he knew things no other man did, he understood exactly what was right in every situation when dealing with people. He loved everyone without prejudice.
If God is love, then theres no doubt he was sent by him. So if this is the case he also proved that the after life exists... This is the "saving grace" he gave to the world. The realization of the existance of life after death. Which is truely amazing when you think about it.
Still the fact remains he was not God, only a part of him.
sorry about the little rant
reply to post by Akragon
I enjoy your perspective and openmindedness. Definately no need for apologies.
I enjoy your perspective and openmindedness. Definately no need for apologies.
Originally posted by mathematic
Here's what I struggle with.
One thing we know that's true is that the universe is evolving, and constantly progressing toward a higher state. With this knowledge, how can my infinitesimal life span relative to that of creation, condemn me to an eternity anywhere?
Be it heaven or hell, I don't see anyway that I can be confined to an eternity with out the opportunity to explore existence. If my eternity is determined by the decisions I make in my miniscule life, then so be it. It's destined. No free will.
Your struggle is my struggle as well. I could never understand how a god of justness, piety, and reason, had such an irrational setup for mankind.
reply to post by UnknownPhilosopher
(i know its quite long but its the story i was telling you guys about.)
The Egg
By: Andy Weir
You were on your way home when you died.
It was a car accident. Nothing particularly remarkable, but fatal nonetheless. You left behind a wife and two children. It was a painless death. The EMTs tried their best to save you, but to no avail. Your body was so utterly shattered you were better off, trust me.
And that’s when you met me.
“What… what happened?” You asked. “Where am I?”
“You died,” I said, matter-of-factly. No point in mincing words.
“There was a… a truck and it was skidding…”
“Yup,” I said.
“I… I died?”
“Yup. But don’t feel bad about it. Everyone dies,” I said.
You looked around. There was nothingness. Just you and me. “What is this place?” You asked. “Is this the afterlife?”
“More or less,” I said.
“Are you god?” You asked.
“Yup,” I replied. “I’m God.”
“My kids… my wife,” you said.
“What about them?”
“Will they be all right?”
“That’s what I like to see,” I said. “You just died and your main concern is for your family. That’s good stuff right there.”
You looked at me with fascination. To you, I didn’t look like God. I just looked like some man. Or possibly a woman. Some vague authority figure, maybe. More of a grammar school teacher than the almighty.
“Don’t worry,” I said. “They’ll be fine. Your kids will remember you as perfect in every way. They didn’t have time to grow contempt for you. You wife will cry on the outside, but will be secretly relieved. To be fair, your marriage was falling apart. If it’s any consolation, she’ll feel very guilty for feeling relieved.”
“Oh,” you said. “So what happens now? Do I go to heaven or hell or something?”
“Neither,” I said. “You’ll be reincarnated.”
“Ah,” you said. “So the Hindus were right,”
“All religions are right in their own way,” I said. “Walk with me.”
You followed along as we strode through the void. “Where are we going?”
“Nowhere in particular,” I said. “It’s just nice to walk while we talk.”
“So what’s the point, then?” You asked. “When I get reborn, I’ll just be a blank slate, right? A baby. So all my experiences and everything I did in this life won’t matter.”
“Not so!” I said. “You have within you all the knowledge and experiences of all your past lives. You just don’t remember them right now.”
I stopped walking and took you by the shoulders. “Your soul is more magnificent, beautiful, and gigantic than you can possibly imagine. A human mind can only contain a tiny fraction of what you are. It’s like sticking your finger in a glass of water to see if it’s hot or cold. You put a tiny part of yourself into the vessel, and when you bring it back out, you’ve gained all the experiences it had.
“You’ve been in a human for the last 48 years, so you haven’t stretched out yet and felt the rest of your immense consciousness. If we hung out here for long enough, you’d start remembering everything. But there’s no point to doing that between each life.”
“How many times have I been reincarnated, then?”
“Oh lots. Lots and lots. An in to lots of different lives.” I said. “This time around, you’ll be a Chinese peasant girl in 540 AD.”
“Wait, what?” You stammered. “You’re sending me back in time?”
“Well, I guess technically. Time, as you know it, only exists in your universe. Things are different where I come from.”
“Where you come from?” You said.
“Oh sure,” I explained “I come from somewhere. Somewhere else. And there are others like me. I know you’ll want to know what it’s like there, but honestly you wouldn’t understand.”
“Oh,” you said, a little let down. “But wait. If I get reincarnated to other places in time, I could have interacted with myself at some point.”
“Sure. Happens all the time. And with both lives only aware of their own lifespan you don’t even know it’s happening.”
“So what’s the point of it all?”
“Seriously?” I asked. “Seriously? You’re asking me for the meaning of life? Isn’t that a little stereotypical?”
“Well it’s a reasonable question,” you persisted.
I looked you in the eye. “The meaning of life, the reason I made this whole universe, is for you to mature.”
“You mean mankind? You want us to mature?”
“No, just you. I made this whole universe for you. With each new life you grow and mature and become a larger and greater intellect.”
“Just me? What about everyone else?”
“There is no one else,” I said. “In this universe, there’s just you and me.”
You stared blankly at me. “But all the people on earth…”
“All you. Different incarnations of you.”
“Wait. I’m everyone!?”
“Now you’re getting it,” I said, with a congratulatory slap on the back.
“I’m every human being who ever lived?”
“Or who will ever live, yes.”
“I’m Abraham Lincoln?”
“And you’re John Wilkes Booth, too,” I added.
“I’m Hitler?” You said, appalled.
“And you’re the millions he killed.”
“I’m Jesus?”
“And you’re everyone who followed him.”
You fell silent.
“Every time you victimized someone,” I said, “you were victimizing yourself. Every act of kindness you’ve done, you’ve done to yourself. Every happy and sad moment ever experienced by any human was, or will be, experienced by you.”
You thought for a long time.
“Why?” You asked me. “Why do all this?”
“Because someday, you will become like me. Because that’s what you are. You’re one of my kind. You’re my child.”
“Whoa,” you said, incredulous. “You mean I’m a god?”
“No. Not yet. You’re a fetus. You’re still growing. Once you’ve lived every human life throughout all time, you will have grown enough to be born.”
“So the whole universe,” you said, “it’s just…”
“An egg.” I answered. “Now it’s time for you to move on to your next life.”
And I sent you on your way.
(i know its quite long but its the story i was telling you guys about.)
The Egg
By: Andy Weir
You were on your way home when you died.
It was a car accident. Nothing particularly remarkable, but fatal nonetheless. You left behind a wife and two children. It was a painless death. The EMTs tried their best to save you, but to no avail. Your body was so utterly shattered you were better off, trust me.
And that’s when you met me.
“What… what happened?” You asked. “Where am I?”
“You died,” I said, matter-of-factly. No point in mincing words.
“There was a… a truck and it was skidding…”
“Yup,” I said.
“I… I died?”
“Yup. But don’t feel bad about it. Everyone dies,” I said.
You looked around. There was nothingness. Just you and me. “What is this place?” You asked. “Is this the afterlife?”
“More or less,” I said.
“Are you god?” You asked.
“Yup,” I replied. “I’m God.”
“My kids… my wife,” you said.
“What about them?”
“Will they be all right?”
“That’s what I like to see,” I said. “You just died and your main concern is for your family. That’s good stuff right there.”
You looked at me with fascination. To you, I didn’t look like God. I just looked like some man. Or possibly a woman. Some vague authority figure, maybe. More of a grammar school teacher than the almighty.
“Don’t worry,” I said. “They’ll be fine. Your kids will remember you as perfect in every way. They didn’t have time to grow contempt for you. You wife will cry on the outside, but will be secretly relieved. To be fair, your marriage was falling apart. If it’s any consolation, she’ll feel very guilty for feeling relieved.”
“Oh,” you said. “So what happens now? Do I go to heaven or hell or something?”
“Neither,” I said. “You’ll be reincarnated.”
“Ah,” you said. “So the Hindus were right,”
“All religions are right in their own way,” I said. “Walk with me.”
You followed along as we strode through the void. “Where are we going?”
“Nowhere in particular,” I said. “It’s just nice to walk while we talk.”
“So what’s the point, then?” You asked. “When I get reborn, I’ll just be a blank slate, right? A baby. So all my experiences and everything I did in this life won’t matter.”
“Not so!” I said. “You have within you all the knowledge and experiences of all your past lives. You just don’t remember them right now.”
I stopped walking and took you by the shoulders. “Your soul is more magnificent, beautiful, and gigantic than you can possibly imagine. A human mind can only contain a tiny fraction of what you are. It’s like sticking your finger in a glass of water to see if it’s hot or cold. You put a tiny part of yourself into the vessel, and when you bring it back out, you’ve gained all the experiences it had.
“You’ve been in a human for the last 48 years, so you haven’t stretched out yet and felt the rest of your immense consciousness. If we hung out here for long enough, you’d start remembering everything. But there’s no point to doing that between each life.”
“How many times have I been reincarnated, then?”
“Oh lots. Lots and lots. An in to lots of different lives.” I said. “This time around, you’ll be a Chinese peasant girl in 540 AD.”
“Wait, what?” You stammered. “You’re sending me back in time?”
“Well, I guess technically. Time, as you know it, only exists in your universe. Things are different where I come from.”
“Where you come from?” You said.
“Oh sure,” I explained “I come from somewhere. Somewhere else. And there are others like me. I know you’ll want to know what it’s like there, but honestly you wouldn’t understand.”
“Oh,” you said, a little let down. “But wait. If I get reincarnated to other places in time, I could have interacted with myself at some point.”
“Sure. Happens all the time. And with both lives only aware of their own lifespan you don’t even know it’s happening.”
“So what’s the point of it all?”
“Seriously?” I asked. “Seriously? You’re asking me for the meaning of life? Isn’t that a little stereotypical?”
“Well it’s a reasonable question,” you persisted.
I looked you in the eye. “The meaning of life, the reason I made this whole universe, is for you to mature.”
“You mean mankind? You want us to mature?”
“No, just you. I made this whole universe for you. With each new life you grow and mature and become a larger and greater intellect.”
“Just me? What about everyone else?”
“There is no one else,” I said. “In this universe, there’s just you and me.”
You stared blankly at me. “But all the people on earth…”
“All you. Different incarnations of you.”
“Wait. I’m everyone!?”
“Now you’re getting it,” I said, with a congratulatory slap on the back.
“I’m every human being who ever lived?”
“Or who will ever live, yes.”
“I’m Abraham Lincoln?”
“And you’re John Wilkes Booth, too,” I added.
“I’m Hitler?” You said, appalled.
“And you’re the millions he killed.”
“I’m Jesus?”
“And you’re everyone who followed him.”
You fell silent.
“Every time you victimized someone,” I said, “you were victimizing yourself. Every act of kindness you’ve done, you’ve done to yourself. Every happy and sad moment ever experienced by any human was, or will be, experienced by you.”
You thought for a long time.
“Why?” You asked me. “Why do all this?”
“Because someday, you will become like me. Because that’s what you are. You’re one of my kind. You’re my child.”
“Whoa,” you said, incredulous. “You mean I’m a god?”
“No. Not yet. You’re a fetus. You’re still growing. Once you’ve lived every human life throughout all time, you will have grown enough to be born.”
“So the whole universe,” you said, “it’s just…”
“An egg.” I answered. “Now it’s time for you to move on to your next life.”
And I sent you on your way.
reply to post by UnknownPhilosopher
Not at all, God won't violate the sovereignty of man. And He will not force you to love Him. That's not love. The most loving way to create us is with a free will, with that ability some would chose not to love Him back.
If God truly shows pure and perfected love for all of his creations (satan and his demons included) should all be saved since there is no conditon to receiving Gods love thus meaning their is no condition for being saved.
Not at all, God won't violate the sovereignty of man. And He will not force you to love Him. That's not love. The most loving way to create us is with a free will, with that ability some would chose not to love Him back.
In 2 Kings 10:18-27, Judges 21, Joshua 6, Deutoeronamy 3, 1 Chronicles 21 God orders the murder thousands since they are not his people (even though He created them) and that they worship another god. These are just a small handful of cases in which God doesn't practice Unconditional Love but the exact opposite.
No, no, no... Read Genesis 6 and you'll know why the flood came, and why God commanded the Jews to wipe out every man woman and child of certain tribes. Understand who the Rephaim were as well as the Nephilim. These people were NOT His children, they were the demi-god offspring of fallen angels and human women.
Isaiah 26:14 speaks of them, and tells us that they can never be resurrected.
They are dead, they will not live; they are shades, they will not arise; to that end you have visited them with destruction and wiped out all remembrance of them."
The spirits of the Rephaim and Nephilim are the evil spirits/demons. If you don't understand Genesis chapter 6 you won't understand much of the Old Testament.
reply to post by UnknownPhilosopher
It's as least as likely they are different.
I don't believe that Jesus was referring to the same guy. What do you think?
It's as least as likely they are different.
I don't believe that Jesus was referring to the same guy. What do you think?
Originally posted by happykat39
While I am, for all intents and purposes, a Christian I do have a somewhat unconventional belief about salvation. Consider that there are many religions in the world and most of those are based in lands where a lot of people will not get the message of the bible. Many of those people will be very good people and pretty much follow their religion's version of the 10 commandments. I do not believe that a truly loving God will condemn them all to eternal hell just because they never had a chance in this life to study the bible and accept Christ as their savior. I believe that they will be given that chance after death and only those people who are truly evil and unwilling to repent their sins will be sent to eternal damnation.
I agree happykat..
(I'm a Christian Universalist).
William Barclay on Universalism
Vicky
For a god that give unconditional love, why does he put so many conditions on that love.
eg. ten commandments for starters (that's 10 conditions straight away)
eg. ten commandments for starters (that's 10 conditions straight away)
reply to post by NOTurTypical
What are you getting at? I fail to see what that has to do with gods unconditional love for us. I'm not speaking of mans love for god.
What are you getting at? I fail to see what that has to do with gods unconditional love for us. I'm not speaking of mans love for god.
Originally posted by NOTurTypical
In 2 Kings 10:18-27, Judges 21, Joshua 6, Deutoeronamy 3, 1 Chronicles 21 God orders the murder thousands since they are not his people (even though He created them) and that they worship another god. These are just a small handful of cases in which God doesn't practice Unconditional Love but the exact opposite.
No, no, no... Read Genesis 6 and you'll know why the flood came, and why God commanded the Jews to wipe out every man woman and child of certain tribes. Understand who the Rephaim were as well as the Nephilim. These people were NOT His children, they were the demi-god offspring of fallen angels and human women.
Isaiah 26:14 speaks of them, and tells us that they can never be resurrected.
They are dead, they will not live; they are shades, they will not arise; to that end you have visited them with destruction and wiped out all remembrance of them."
The spirits of the Rephaim and Nephilim are the evil spirits/demons. If you don't understand Genesis chapter 6 you won't understand much of the Old Testament.
I understand a great amount of the old testament. The fact is, even the demons were his creation. The people (including the demons) were not leading lives that he saw fit, so the extermination commenced. In a very simplified version, god killed his own creation because they were not doing as he wished. He essentially broke the very commandments he placed upon his "chosen people". Thou shalt not murder.
edit on 6-5-2011 by UnknownPhilosopher because: (no reason given)
reply to post by NOTurTypical
However, I do find it interesting that you use the names that were given to the watchers in the book of enoch. Which is no longer part of the cannanized bible read today.
( Very interesting read by the way )
However, I do find it interesting that you use the names that were given to the watchers in the book of enoch. Which is no longer part of the cannanized bible read today.
( Very interesting read by the way )
reply to post by Akragon
Thou shalt have no other god before me.
Sorry that is very much a condition.
Sorry that is very much a condition.
Originally posted by acrux
reply to post by Akragon
Thou shalt have no other god before me.
Sorry that is very much a condition.
no less a condition to love than proving your love is true by not breaking these rules...
reply to post by UnknownPhilosopher
I'll say it again.. The Nephilim and Rephaim were NOT a creation of God. They were the demi-god offspring of the fallen angels and the daughters of man (Adam). It says God found Noah "perfect in his generations", the Hebrew connotation is a genetic one for perfect, as in "unblemished". Noah was chosen to build the ark not for any righteousness, but because his DNA wasn't corrupted with the seed of Satan.
The entire reason God commanded Joshua to wipe out every man, woman, and child of certain tribes was because of this problem that happened AGAIN after the Egyptian captivity. Genesis 6 says it happened again after the flood. And there will be genetic manipulation again here in the last days. Daniel says that as well, and Jesus said "But as the days of Noe [were], so shall also the coming of the Son of man be." (Matt. Ch. 24)
That is why the Nephilim and Rephaim cannot be resurrected, they are NOT God's creation, they are hybrids, and it is happening again, this is the verse from Daniel that will characterize these last days:
Daniel 2:43
In order for there to be a "mingling" of a seed with the "seed of man", it has to be a seed that is not human.
god killed his own creation because they were not doing as he wished.
I'll say it again.. The Nephilim and Rephaim were NOT a creation of God. They were the demi-god offspring of the fallen angels and the daughters of man (Adam). It says God found Noah "perfect in his generations", the Hebrew connotation is a genetic one for perfect, as in "unblemished". Noah was chosen to build the ark not for any righteousness, but because his DNA wasn't corrupted with the seed of Satan.
The entire reason God commanded Joshua to wipe out every man, woman, and child of certain tribes was because of this problem that happened AGAIN after the Egyptian captivity. Genesis 6 says it happened again after the flood. And there will be genetic manipulation again here in the last days. Daniel says that as well, and Jesus said "But as the days of Noe [were], so shall also the coming of the Son of man be." (Matt. Ch. 24)
That is why the Nephilim and Rephaim cannot be resurrected, they are NOT God's creation, they are hybrids, and it is happening again, this is the verse from Daniel that will characterize these last days:
"And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay."
Daniel 2:43
In order for there to be a "mingling" of a seed with the "seed of man", it has to be a seed that is not human.
Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by UnknownPhilosopher
god killed his own creation because they were not doing as he wished.
I'll say it again.. The Nephilim and Rephaim were NOT a creation of God. They were the demi-god offspring of the fallen angels and the daughters of man (Adam). .
that makes no sense...if he there parents were both creations of god then they themselves were children of god...in earthmother theory the geneticly created Liger is amazing it shows that mother nature is willing to bind two similar beings together to create a new one in witch case so was god or he wouldnt allow angels and men to breed...just as other races and species cant breed.
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