The Paradox of the Left/Right Political Divide and the Denial of Conspiracies

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posted on May, 7 2011 @ 08:59 AM
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reply to post by bhornbuckle75
 





I've never been an Ayn Rand fan at all, yet you make some damn fine points. I guess you did a really good job of proving that when you strip away all the BS philosophical differences both Left and Right can end up agreeing on some very fundamental issues. Bravo!


Thanks.

Once you realize all the money the American people are hemorrhaging flows to the Banksters and the Banksters are using that money to BUY the media, politicians, universities and "grassroots" organizations, you then realize the Left/Right divide is artificially created to keep us from spotting our true enemy.

If you are savvy about what is happening beneath all the propaganda, Atlas Shrugged part I will seem VERY true to life even though it was written more than a half century ago. This is why the puppet media MUST bash it.

The last thing the banksters want is savvy left leaning people to look at the movie objectively because it points out who our real enemies are.

Think about it the REAL Christian ethic is about brotherhood and charity is that really so different from what the left is about?

The Banksters have to dig pretty deep to find things to get the left and right to fight about.

For example my parents were died in the wool Republicans. Dad studied to be a Lutheran minister. His roommate in college was Pastor for our church. Yet both my mother (1917-1981) and grandmother were FOR legalizing prostitution and abortion. WHY??? because they were aware of the horrors created by coat hanger abortions and defacto white slavery.

So yes without the media stirring up the fight, I think the left and right would find we have a lot more in common than we think.

I am a die-hard Capitalist but I would love to see corporations kept to a maximum size of maybe 1000 to 10,000 employees.

Why? Because the FACTS show small businesses, under 500 employees, are the most innovative and productive. Small businesses produce 13 times more patents per employee than larger firms. They are also the companies where the owners are most likely to interact directly with their employees as people. When Mr. Big Shot has met Joe Sixpack and his wife and kids, when HE hands Joe his paycheck every week, then Joe will tell Mr. Big Shot when there are problems on the plant floor and Mr. Big Shot will help Joe and his family when tragedy strikes. (based on personal experience)

Also I would love to see more employee owned corporations. Again it is a win-win situation. If you OWN the company you are going to take a greater interest in it, you are going to tell the Corporate Raiders to go to Hades and since you are part owner there is no need for a union.

As far as I am concerned employees holding stock bought with their wealth is REAL capitalism. It is a far cry from a banker lending fiat fairy dust to a corporate raider so he can put together a leveraged buyout and when he gets control tears apart the corporation because the equipment and land is worth more than the business is worth as a going concern. That is nothing but fraud and theft and should have been outlawed from the get go. It is also one of the reason the USA is now in a world of hurt. I knew a guy in Boston who literally packed up US factories and shipped them overseas for a living!

Again are my "Capitalistic" ideas all that distasteful to the left leaning moderates?

REFERENCES:
small business:
economics.about.com...
www.texaswideopenforbusiness.com...

Leveraged buyouts:
rismedia.com...

en.wikipedia.org...
www.econlib.org...
www.nytimes.com... New York Times
lawprofessors.typepad.com...


www.sourcewatch.org...




posted on May, 7 2011 @ 12:28 PM
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reply to post by crimvelvet
 


Actually I agree with your capitalistic ideals. Personally, I dream of the return of the cottage industry. With automation, I think it is the future.

As long as you don't go preaching free market ideology.



posted on May, 7 2011 @ 12:53 PM
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Star and Flag


I have witnessed the government grow bigger and more expensive day by day. It’s time for both political parties to put aside partisanship. These battles slowly whittle our individual liberties away and socialism just keeps chiming along. Regardless of Democrats or Republican.

We now elect people to boss us around, and it costs us 45% of our income for their services.

It’s now us VS them. We need a government to serve "we the people," not to command us.

I have been accused of being partisan. Some partisans have not yet figured out that you have to open your eyes to see.

It sometimes looks like Anarchy VS Tyranny in a one party society.



posted on May, 7 2011 @ 12:55 PM
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Originally posted by wonderworld


We now elect people to boss us around, and it costs us 45% of our income for their services.


Wow. That's lot. I pay about 25% at the end of the year. How are you getting 45%?

en.wikipedia.org...:Income_Taxes_By_Country.svg



posted on May, 7 2011 @ 01:09 PM
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Originally posted by incrediblelousminds

Originally posted by wonderworld


We now elect people to boss us around, and it costs us 45% of our income for their services.


Wow. That's lot. I pay about 25% at the end of the year. How are you getting 45%?

en.wikipedia.org...:Income_Taxes_By_Country.svg


I didnt mean me, specifically, just over all costs. I figure 31% on the high side but if you look at the whole picture it appears like more, and most feel it at times.

I'm not listed on your chart anyways but was interesting seeing it.



[edit by]edit on 7-5-2011 by wonderworld because: (no reason given)
edit on 7-5-2011 by wonderworld because: picture format and to add comment



posted on May, 7 2011 @ 01:11 PM
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Originally posted by wonderworld

Originally posted by incrediblelousminds

Originally posted by wonderworld


We now elect people to boss us around, and it costs us 45% of our income for their services.


Wow. That's lot. I pay about 25% at the end of the year. How are you getting 45%?

en.wikipedia.org...:Income_Taxes_By_Country.svg


I didnt mean me, specifically, just over all costs. I figure 31% on the high side but if you look at the whole picture it appears like more, and most feel it at times.




Which is it? First you said "it costs us 45% of our income for their services.", and now you say it's not much higher than 31%.



posted on May, 7 2011 @ 01:13 PM
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reply to post by wonderworld
 


Actually the truth is taxation is closer to 50% when you add sales taxes, value added taxes, sin taxes, luxury taxes, fuel taxes, communications taxes, energy surcharge taxes, not to mention licenses, fees, registrations, permits, etc.

Likewise mandatory insurances are in essence a tax, they are involuntary and in essence like most taxes provide you with nothing of real or specific value in return.

So taxation is in fact well over 50%.



posted on May, 7 2011 @ 01:18 PM
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Originally posted by incrediblelousminds

Originally posted by wonderworld

Originally posted by incrediblelousminds

Originally posted by wonderworld


We now elect people to boss us around, and it costs us 45% of our income for their services.


Wow. That's lot. I pay about 25% at the end of the year. How are you getting 45%?

en.wikipedia.org...:Income_Taxes_By_Country.svg


I didnt mean me, specifically, just over all costs. I figure 31% on the high side but if you look at the whole picture it appears like more, and most feel it at times.




Which is it? First you said "it costs us 45% of our income for their services.", and now you say it's not much higher than 31%.



Did you look at the chart I put up?

This looks worse: The national debt (as of 1/1/11): $14,025,215,218,709

Each American's share of the debt: $48,382



posted on May, 7 2011 @ 01:23 PM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by wonderworld
 


Actually the truth is taxation is closer to 50% when you add sales taxes, value added taxes, sin taxes, luxury taxes, fuel taxes, communications taxes, energy surcharge taxes, not to mention licenses, fees, registrations, permits, etc.

Likewise mandatory insurances are in essence a tax, they are involuntary and in essence like most taxes provide you with nothing of real or specific value in return.

So taxation is in fact well over 50%.



I agree and didnt mean to drift the thread to Partisan economics. It's funny how a little comments gets attention, when I wasnt really going there, but still interesting.



posted on May, 7 2011 @ 01:32 PM
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Originally posted by wonderworld


Did you look at the chart I put up?

This looks worse: The national debt (as of 1/1/11): $14,025,215,218,709

Each American's share of the debt: $48,382


That still doesnt answer my question as to why you first stated you pay 45% in income taxes, then you said 31%. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I read that as backpedaling. Those numbers I just quoted really dont relate to your initial claim.

Also, there is nothing 'partisan' about my line of questioning. I suspect that is just an attempt on your part to be, well, partisan.
edit on 7-5-2011 by incrediblelousminds because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 7 2011 @ 01:57 PM
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Originally posted by incrediblelousminds

Originally posted by wonderworld


Did you look at the chart I put up?

This looks worse: The national debt (as of 1/1/11): $14,025,215,218,709

Each American's share of the debt: $48,382


That still doesnt answer my question as to why you first stated you pay 45% in income taxes, then you said 31%. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I read that as backpedaling. Those numbers I just quoted really dont relate to your initial claim.

Also, there is nothing 'partisan' about my line of questioning. I suspect that is just an attempt on your part to be, well, partisan.
edit on 7-5-2011 by incrediblelousminds because: (no reason given)


You didnt read what I said. I never once said 45% income TAXES, no where on this tread. You are reading more in to it than was actually there. Are you from the US?



posted on May, 7 2011 @ 02:10 PM
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It’s horrifying knowing that movement calling for Government accountability by the Tea Party prompted the FBI to initiate a extensive surveillance programs, and in some cases the National Guard was ready to respond. I was convinced that American were finally beginning to see through the veil of scripted partisan lectures, designed to instill fears and perpetuate the superficial battle between a left and right.

It is part of the grand plan of this scheme.



posted on May, 7 2011 @ 02:15 PM
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Well, they say there is no such thing as bad publicity, and to quote Capt Mal of Serenity, "there is a piece of the truth in that". Us conspiracy theorist are getting to be more and more of a popular group.

It is hard to believe that the U.S. doesn't have a viable third political party, but that is what as needed. Maybe we can start the Conspiracy Party. "People, you know you have been bamboozled, isn't it time to join the Conspiracy movement". Or we could see about buying the "X Files" slogo, "The truth is out there".



posted on May, 7 2011 @ 02:25 PM
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Originally posted by wonderworld


You didnt read what I said. I never once said 45% income TAXES, no where on this tread. You are reading more in to it than was actually there. Are you from the US?


I did read what you wrote. You said they tax 45% of our income. Yes, I have lived most of my life in the US. What does that have to do with anything?



posted on May, 7 2011 @ 02:31 PM
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Originally posted by poet1b

Well, they say there is no such thing as bad publicity, and to quote Capt Mal of Serenity, "there is a piece of the truth in that". Us conspiracy theorist are getting to be more and more of a popular group.

It is hard to believe that the U.S. doesn't have a viable third political party, but that is what as needed. Maybe we can start the Conspiracy Party. "People, you know you have been bamboozled, isn't it time to join the Conspiracy movement". Or we could see about buying the "X Files" slogo, "The truth is out there".


I love your theory but I'm afraid the puppet masters behind the scenes are too big to fail, fall, etc. It’s all finely orchestrated. If we all were to rise up we would see the same thing as we see in Libya, Yemen, Iraq, Ect. They would enact martial law, execute all executive orders and probably start shooting if we tried to over-throw the government for a 3rd party democracy.



posted on May, 7 2011 @ 02:34 PM
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Originally posted by wonderworld
It’s all finely orchestrated. If we all were to rise up we would see the same thing as we see in Libya, Yemen, Iraq, Ect. They would enact martial law, execute all executive orders and probably start shooting if we tried to over-throw the government for a 3rd party democracy.


But I thought the dominant theory espoused here on ATS was those 'uprisings' are not legitimate, but merely Al Queda and the CIA working in cahoots to destabalize governments unfreindly to western banking interests.

You're postulating they are legitimate uprisings seeking democratic reform?



posted on May, 7 2011 @ 02:37 PM
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Originally posted by incrediblelousminds

Originally posted by wonderworld


You didnt read what I said. I never once said 45% income TAXES, no where on this tread. You are reading more in to it than was actually there. Are you from the US?


I did read what you wrote. You said they tax 45% of our income. Yes, I have lived most of my life in the US. What does that have to do with anything?


O.K since I dont wish to argue with you about what % we pay to keep the federal and state government running I'll simply agree you dont pay 31% , 45% or 50%. I also never asked for your tax statements or wished to know how much you paid in.



posted on May, 7 2011 @ 03:24 PM
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Originally posted by wonderworld
It’s horrifying knowing that movement calling for Government accountability by the Tea Party prompted the FBI to initiate a extensive surveillance programs, and in some cases the National Guard was ready to respond. I was convinced that American were finally beginning to see through the veil of scripted partisan lectures, designed to instill fears and perpetuate the superficial battle between a left and right.

It is part of the grand plan of this scheme.



and hence we see another oxymoron from just THAT !

govts had to buy more, contractors had more to sell.

extra expenses were generated.

added costs to the very things that was being protested !!

it's tough to beat the system......whatever ya do causes another dog to chase his tail !

they have it ALL figured out !



posted on May, 7 2011 @ 03:59 PM
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Originally posted by incrediblelousminds

Originally posted by wonderworld
It’s all finely orchestrated. If we all were to rise up we would see the same thing as we see in Libya, Yemen, Iraq, Ect. They would enact martial law, execute all executive orders and probably start shooting if we tried to over-throw the government for a 3rd party democracy.


But I thought the dominant theory espoused here on ATS was those 'uprisings' are not legitimate, but merely Al Queda and the CIA working in cahoots to destabalize governments unfreindly to western banking interests.

You're postulating they are legitimate uprisings seeking democratic reform?


Well to be honest, I dont know if the Rebels in Libya are actually Insurgents. I'd like a head count to see how many support Gaddafi, not those in fear of him.



posted on May, 7 2011 @ 04:25 PM
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reply to post by xuenchen
 


These were peacefull protests, some of the costs were to arrest people reading the pledge of allegiance. They werent out throwing rocks or grenades.





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