The Paradox of the Left/Right Political Divide and the Denial of Conspiracies

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posted on May, 6 2011 @ 03:11 PM
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reply to post by marg6043
 


Thanks marg6043, you know what they say, if at first you don't succeed try, try again.

It is for the most part about trying to plant seeds and set an example.

Both of which take time and consistency to achieve.

You likely won't effect too many people in the middle of a heated debate, but the words might eventually sink in when they get done trying to break down the wall with their noggin and find the wall is doing much better than their head is.

Thanks for joining in and sharing.





posted on May, 6 2011 @ 03:49 PM
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reply to post by WayfaringStranger
 





.....Conspiracy theorists are patriots, and wouldn't be necessary if the mainstream media did their jobs instead of taking dictation and passing it off as "news and analysis."

I am a "conspiracy theorist" -- and proud of it.


Very neatly put. Star for you.

Unfortunately Conspiracy theorists ARE targeted as mentally unstable. According to Clare Swinney if you mention 9/11 was an inside job or some other Conspiracy Theories in the hearing of your Doctor you just might find yourself in a psychiatric ward!

Clare Swinney a journalist, was held for 11 days and doped to the gills for maintaining the attacks of 9/11 were orchestrated by criminal elements inside the US Administration.

There are comments from others who were also labeled ‘delusional’ and committed for mentioning political Conspiracy Theories so this was not just an isolated occurance. A nurse who works for the government here in the USA mentioned this is also true here in the USA on another website.



THE TRUTH ABOUT PSYCHIATRY FROM OUT OF THEIR OWN MOUTHS

“We can choose to use our growing knowledge to enslave people in ways never dreamed of before, depersonalize them, controlling them by means so carefully selected that they will perhaps never be aware of their loss of personhood.”

Carl R. Rogers, former president of the American Psychological Association

“Through strong, painful impressions we capture the patient’s attention, accustom him to unconditional obedience, and indelibly imprint in his heart the feeling of necessity. The will of his superior must be such a firm, immutable law for him that he will no more resist it than he would rebel against the elements.”

Johan Christian Reil (who first coined the word psychiatry) 1810.

“We must aim to make [psychiatry] permeate every educational activity in our national life… We have made a useful attack upon a number of professions. The two easiest of them naturally are the teaching profession and the church; the two most difficult are law and medicine.”

John Rawlings Rees, a British psychiatrist and co-founder of the World Federation for Mental Health, when defining psychiatry’s goals 1940

The family is one of the major obstacles to improved mental health, and hence should be weakened, if possible, so as to free individuals and especially children from the coercion of family life.”

One of the entrenched “policies” of psychiatry from the International Congress on Mental Health, London 1948. clareswinney.wordpress.com...-456


You can then connect the dots to this from Sourcewatch:

...The Rockefeller family sponsored research and donated sums to universities and medical schools which had drug based research. They further extended this policy to foreign universities and medical schools where research was drug based through their "International Education Board". Establishments and research which were were not drug based were refused funding and soon dissolved in favor of the lucrative pharmaceutical industry.

In 1939 a "Drug Trust" alliance was formed by the Rockefeller empire and the German chemical company IG Farben (Bayer). After World War Two, IG Farben was dismantled but later emerged as separate corporations within the alliance. Well known companies included General Mills, Kellogg, Nestle, Bristol-Myers Squibb, Procter and Gamble, Roche and Hoechst (Sanofi-Aventis). The Rockefeller empire, in tandem with Chase Manhattan Bank (now JP Morgan Chase), owns over half of the pharmaceutical interests in the United States.

It is the largest drug manufacturing combine in the world. Since WWII, the pharmaceutical industry has steadily netted increasing profits to become the world's second largest manufacturing industry; [3], [4] after the arms industry....

Auschwitz was the largest mass extermination factory in human history. However, few people are aware that Auschwitz was a 100% subsidiary of IG Farben. On April 14, 1941, in Ludwigshafen, Otto Armbrust, the IG Farben board member responsible for the Auschwitz project, stated to board colleagues:


"our new friendship with the SS is a blessing. We have determined all measures integrating the concentration camps to benefit our company."


Thousands of prisoners died during human experiments, drug and vaccine testing....

After WWII, IG Farben attempted to shake its abominable image through corporate restructuring and renaming. So great has been their success that the public has no idea that it many of the men responsible for such atrocities, were able to carry on their work even after the collapse of the Nazi regime. Namely, a medical paradigm that relies almost exclusively highly toxic drugs. Such men were in control of the large chemical and pharmaceutical companies, both well before and after Hitler. The Nuremberg Tribunal convicted 24 IG Farben board members and executives on the basis of mass murder, slavery and other crimes. Incredibly, most of them had been released by 1951 and continued to consult with German corporations. The Nuremberg Tribunal dissolved IG Farben into Bayer, Hoechst and BASF, each company 20 times as large as IG Farben in 1944. For almost three decades after WWII, BASF, Bayer and Hoechst (Aventis) filled their highest position, chairman of the board, with former members of the Nazi regime..... www.sourcewatch.org...



posted on May, 6 2011 @ 05:37 PM
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reply to post by Rising Against
 


I just feel that no president for decades has changed anything for the good, just strict inhumane drug laws, and more warfare than any other period of human history. so im not sure what "change" we are talking about here.


It is basically impossible to change anything that the people above the president do not want changed, or they shoot you in the head, and kill the person that shot him.

Besides, to the rest of the world, US is a tyrant, so I will never put my name beside anything with USA in it, besides where I live. It's likely in our lifetimes the world is going to shut USA up for good, or try to, either way its not gonna be good.



posted on May, 6 2011 @ 05:41 PM
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reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
 





I'm not so certain I agree with your assessment about Alpha males and female.

Not in regards to genetics at least.

I do agree the Alpha male and female is not often found....


When I was talking of genetics I was speaking of the species as a whole. You get Alphas in lions, wolves, coyotes, humans or any other social species. You do not get Alphas that is "leaders of the pack" in tigers because they are solitary.

Of those animals who do form packs, you get two types. The first is one dominant male and a group of females and sub-adult offspring. In this case all adult males are driven off or killed. In the second type the dominant male will allow submissive adult males (sibs or sons) to live.

Humans belong to the second type which means there is a "submissive gene" in our make-up. The elite of whatever era have breed for submissiveness. Serfs, Slaves, feudalism or similar "class" systems made sure the unwashed masses knew their place and did not get "uppity" If you believe Proto's All Roads Lead to Rome you could say the elite have been breeding submissiveness into the human race for 2000 years or more on an intentional basis.


Is leadership learned???

Yes I think so. From what I have seen very dominant human males often produce submissive offspring or they drive off their adult offspring. It is probably why the elite send their kids away to be educated. A dominant male is going to have a bit of a problem raising another dominant male unless he is very very self-aware.

I saw the challenges in my family between my father and brother but being female I never took part. Actually I just quietly went my own way and kept my mouth shut, much easier


While on the subject of Alphas I would like to bring up the subject of the pseudo-Alpha. I really really hate these people because they are SOooo dangerous.

The pseudo-Alpha is not a real leader. He wants the position of authority because he is ego tripping. He often has the charm and charisma to grab a leadership position from a real leader but is usually lazy, shallow and not particularly intelligent.

I have seen a lot of these people in social organizations and in industry. They alway leave a mess behind for others to clean-up but they always charm their way out of any blame. Unfortunately I think these pseudo-Alphas often show up in politics.



posted on May, 6 2011 @ 06:28 PM
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Originally posted by crimvelvet
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
 





....So many people claim we had no foreknowledge of Pearl Harbor or 9/11.

This is a completely false claim due to those lost pieces of history many are too lazy to sift through....


Someone did do the sifting through history. I do not know if what he is saying is true because I have not chased down the original documents but it is certainly an interesting read.

Days of Infamy and

We can even see the same tried and true formula shown in the article being implemented today. I cover it in Napolitano sets stage for False Flag Terrorist Attack



I referenced that the way I did because I've sifted through hoardes of information.

The evidence is quite plain to me in regards to both Pearl Harbor and 9/11.

And I am a member of Freedom Force International as well.

Owning thousands of books and cross-referencing them does tend to give one a truer perspective.

I will not allow lies of Government to stand unquestioned.

But neither will I allow lies to be told upon Government unquestioned.

The formula for all False-Flag Operations is the Hegelian Dialectic.

Abstract, negative, concrete.

Introduce an abstract idea.

Create a negative hype and decry repercussions.

Then it happens and cements that those in power were right all along.

Even if they used deniable assets to work their terrorism.



posted on May, 6 2011 @ 06:29 PM
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reply to post by ~Lucidity
 





We are? Playing sports and the nonsense we're seeing today? I don't see much of a correlation.

Neither I nor my sisters nor my children were trained for this from childhood. This is much too broad a statement, and I'm thinking this is a different beast.


I do children's entertainment and spend a lot of time at schools, preschools and churches. If you are alert you can see the "team building" in action.

I can not count the number of times I have heard a preschool teacher say "OK, all the reds form a line by this tree.... or something similar and seen a bunch of toddlers form a line holding hands while other toddlers in the play area ignored them.

Remember you have removed these kids from their mothers and families and substituted a group, their class, as their pseudo family. The urge to "belong" especially in the young is a very strong urge because it means survival.

This urge to belong to your family and community has been deliberately grafted onto other groups. Your class in school, your sports team and later your political party.

Nicole Johnson noted

...Their plan was so effective and so faithfully executed by its operatives in the US government that by 1974 the CED couldn't help but congratulate itself in another agricultural report called "A New US Farm Policy for Changing World Food Needs" for the efficiency of the tactics they employed to drive farmers from their land.[5]

The human cost of CED's plans were exacting and enormous.

CED's plans resulted in widespread social upheaval throughout rural America, ripping apart the fabric of its society destroying its local economies. They also resulted in a massive migration to larger cities. The loss of a farm also means the loss of identity, and many farmers' lives ended in suicide...

www.opednews.com...


People need groups to belong to whether family and community or sports teams and political parties. Today we do not really have "communities" not like we used to,churches are now looked upon with contempt, and you are lucky if you stay with a job for as many as five years. Because of this the groups you see yourself as belonging to have increasing importance. It doesn't matter if I move from Florida to Oregon I can still be a Dolphins fan and I can still be a democrat.

I know where of I speak. I moved over forty times in my first thirty years. I am a member of the NSS and it held a very important spot in my life, a guarantee of belonging no matter where I went. Finding the local chapter and attending the next meeting was alway very high on my to do list when I moved to a new location.

Understand I am not saying this is THE factor but I do think it is A factor.



posted on May, 6 2011 @ 06:47 PM
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reply to post by crimvelvet
 

Really interesting. And about the toddlers who ignored them too. I guess being different starts early.

Also, in reading this it came to me that perhaps being part of a "group" or being "agreed" with or acting out of character to be "liked" simply isn't as important to some as to others. Maybe they're better self-soothers or can find other things to occupy these voids that don't follow traditional lines?

As for the church thing, where I live if you don't belong to one, you are looked upon with disdain and suspicion. You're not doing what's "normal" or "expected.

edit on 5/6/2011 by ~Lucidity because: liked not like



posted on May, 6 2011 @ 06:47 PM
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Originally posted by crimvelvet
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
 


When I was talking of genetics I was speaking of the species as a whole. You get Alphas in lions, wolves, coyotes, humans or any other social species. You do not get Alphas that is "leaders of the pack" in tigers because they are solitary.


Okay, I was clarifying, I do not believe in eugenics and ignorant stances on genetic manipulation.

I did not believe you meant that.

But it is better to address it and clarify it then to assume.


Originally posted by crimvelvet
Of those animals who do form packs, you get two types. The first is one dominant male and a group of females and sub-adult offspring. In this case all adult males are driven off or killed. In the second type the dominant male will allow submissive adult males (sibs or sons) to live.


Of course.


Originally posted by crimvelvet
Humans belong to the second type which means there is a "submissive gene" in our make-up. The elite of whatever era have breed for submissiveness. Serfs, Slaves, feudalism or similar "class" systems made sure the unwashed masses knew their place and did not get "uppity" If you believe Proto's All Roads Lead to Rome you could say the elite have been breeding submissiveness into the human race for 2000 years or more on an intentional basis.


I've read ProtoplasmicTraveler's thread.

Prefering Greece over Rome I stayed out of the thread.

In all due respect to him I do not enjoy wading through a quagmire.

Although I know Rome as well as Greece the latter is more preferential to my ideas.

I do not concur about submissiveness being bred into society over the last 2,000 some odd years.

Nor do I concur about submissiveness being a gene in our human make-up.

Again, it is environmental, the caste system of society being a larger model for the familial unit.


Originally posted by crimvelvet
Is leadership learned???


Yes it is learned.

And sometimes it is something we're born with.

Not in the genetic sense.

But through our spirit, intelligence, and willpower.

Sometimes our soul comes to our body, a simple vessel, knowing certain leadership skills.


Originally posted by crimvelvet
Yes I think so. From what I have seen very dominant human males often produce submissive offspring or they drive off their adult offspring. It is probably why the elite send their kids away to be educated. A dominant male is going to have a bit of a problem raising another dominant male unless he is very very self-aware.

I saw the challenges in my family between my father and brother but being female I never took part. Actually I just quietly went my own way and kept my mouth shut, much easier


Yes, a dominant male does see difficulty, raising another dominant male.

And that first alpha acts accordingly.

My stepfather was what you called very very aware.

Mission Creep : Agenda of An Alleged "New World Order" and Those Doing Their Bidding [WRAP]

The above writing contest entry, the winning contest entry, tells of my stepfathers role in teaching me.

To paraphrase it here though he sent me chasing after a meaningless ghost.

Called the New World Order from the age of 6 years old to keep me occupied.

By the age of 25 I figured out there is no such thing because it is a game of Chinese Whispers.


Originally posted by crimvelvet
While on the subject of Alphas I would like to bring up the subject of the pseudo-Alpha. I really really hate these people because they are SOooo dangerous.

The pseudo-Alpha is not a real leader. He wants the position of authority because he is ego tripping. He often has the charm and charisma to grab a leadership position from a real leader but is usually lazy, shallow and not particularly intelligent.

I have seen a lot of these people in social organizations and in industry. They alway leave a mess behind for others to clean-up but they always charm their way out of any blame. Unfortunately I think these pseudo-Alphas often show up in politics.


I've seen the psuedo-alpha and Barack Obama is one of them.

Followed by yes-men who whisper in his ear how great a man he is and how magnificent his actions.

But alas the Emperor Wears No Clothes and no one is listening to that voice.



posted on May, 6 2011 @ 07:04 PM
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Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas

Originally posted by crimvelvet
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
 





....So many people claim we had no foreknowledge of Pearl Harbor or 9/11.

This is a completely false claim due to those lost pieces of history many are too lazy to sift through....


Someone did do the sifting through history. I do not know if what he is saying is true because I have not chased down the original documents but it is certainly an interesting read.

Days of Infamy and

We can even see the same tried and true formula shown in the article being implemented today. I cover it in Napolitano sets stage for False Flag Terrorist Attack




[color=ffff000]The formula for all False-Flag Operations is the Hegelian Dialectic.

Abstract, negative, concrete.

Introduce an abstract idea.

Create a negative hype and decry repercussions.

Then it happens and cements that those in power were right all along.

Even if they used deniable assets to work their terrorism.



Perhaps much like the agendas in the Israel / Israel's Enemies Hegelian Dialectic.

The world sees many false flags on all sides in the Middle-East .... BOTH end up profiting somehow !

the MSM tweeks the stories with the "Tri-View" trick ...... TV and newspapers always show:

1. pictures
2. words that don't match the pictures
3. captions that match "none of the above"

it's a classic "view".



posted on May, 6 2011 @ 07:09 PM
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reply to post by Lono1
 





There have been prominent figures throughout history attempting to educate us to this illusion of freedom, and somehow they all end up silent:


Well said.

While making that list do not forget three of my favorites:

Congressman, Louis T. McFadden, who brought formal charges against the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve Bank system, The Comptroller of the Currency and the Secretary of United States Treasury for numerous criminal acts, including but not limited to, CONSPIRACY, FRAUD, UNLAWFUL CONVERSION, AND TREASON.... He was Shot at twice and then poisoned.

Congressman Lindbergh: "Here was a Man" who fought the Federal Reserve and asked "Why Is Your Country at War?" The printing plates for his book were destroyed in 1918 by several government agents. Lindbergh also brought Articles of Impeachment Against the Federal Reserve (Congressional record – Feb 12, 1917) and in 1932 his grandson was kidnapped and murdered. (He had already died of a brain tumor earlier.)

Justice Martin Mahoney's "court rejected the bank's claim for foreclosure, and the defendant kept his house." Mahoney, went even further threatening to prosecute and expose the bank. He died less than six months later "in a mysterious accident that appeared to involve poisoning"

And a hundred years later we are STILL saddled with the blasted banking vampires sucking the life out of our country.



posted on May, 6 2011 @ 07:23 PM
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reply to post by jackflap
 




Hey phatpackage! Good to see you posting and asking the high quality questions.


Thanks!



but I hope it will not offend


We all know what ATS is about so no offense taken!



You have recognized and seen both sides of the coin so to speak


Yes I see some of the topics on ATS as conspiracies (e.g drug companies treating symptoms & not providing cures, JFK, Port Arthur, Whitlam etc etc) else I would not be on ATS! and yet I see most of the topics labelled conspiracies as not being conspiracies so therefore I cop both labels at various times and actually have some sympathies for both sides.



Why do both fields of thought seem to mimic the other in the end?


Good question. I think it basically comes down to human nature. If someone feels attacked they will counter attack to the extreme opposite. Maybe like a "online boxing match".



We can agree to disagree right?


Exactly right! I think that is an ATS strength where now more than ever people of differing opinions can get together and express opinion. As long as people see it is entertainment, I think that is the key. I look at ATS to learn something and have fun!

I have read threads where people claim ATS is losing it's way and "not like what it used to be" just because there are many new members who are not "hard core" conspiracy theorists and deny many conspiracies. I don't know if that is what the OP is alluding to (only they can say).

Skepticoverlord also recently made a similar observation to what I am talking about



Why is that when we see a rise in diversity of opinion, a segment of ATS members automatically assume some nefarious reason?


This is where the insults on both sides come from. The conspiracy theorists feel like it is almost another conspiracy that is happens. One side denies the conspiracy and then the other labels and the favour is returned. I actually think since more mainstream members have joined it actually makes ATS even better as the diversity of opinion makes for very interesting and sometimes funny and educational posts!

I don't think it is always (maybe sometimes) a straight out Left/Right perspective. I have seen here many users who would appear left wing and then make very right wing style posts. The lines are really blurred now!

Thanks for taking the time to reply!



posted on May, 6 2011 @ 07:38 PM
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reply to post by romanmel
 







Originally posted by ~Lucidity
reply to post by crimvelvet


There's one group who defines everything as black or white, left or right, and so one. But what I would just love to know is why some people don't. Why do we see a different picture than they do?

I realize that I'm in my own head and know I make an effort to understand the partisan way, but I can't. Not really. I'm not wired that way. So what is it that makes us different? What caused it?




Critical thinking is a rarity.

Embrace your gift.


Thank you for giving a clear concise answer.

A similar question has bugged the life out of me for years.

I could never understand why the people I worked with could not "connect the dots" to solve a problem when I could see the problem and solution so clearly. In meetings I would have to lead them by the hand and explain each dot and how it lead to the next FRUSTRATING!!!!



posted on May, 6 2011 @ 07:53 PM
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reply to post by ~Lucidity
 





...Also, in reading this it came to me that perhaps being part of a "group" or being "agreed" with or acting out of character to be "like" simply isn't as important to some as to others....


Yes I think that is very true.

I was about eight or nine when I made the decision I rather be my own person than conform to a group just to be liked. I can remember sitting at the kitchen table and having a long discussion about it with my Mom.

(Gee, I guess you were right about learning to be a leader, or at least independent SpartanKingLeonidas)



posted on May, 6 2011 @ 07:53 PM
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Great thread, Proto! Once again you hit the nail on the head, about this whole Osama Bin Laden fiasco. For the record, I am still having a hard time following what took place in Pakistan? Instead of going into a long laundry list about my reservations with the official story, I will try and stay within the restraints of the topic at hand. The Left/Right paradigm is a divide and conquer method by those in power. In that respect, people are like mushrooms; feed them crap and keep them in the dark. Keep everyone on edge and suspicious of their fellow man. Regardless of political leanings or loyalties, there is no such thing as a stupid question or theory. Usually the people that get upset or aggravated by a simple question are the one's without a reasonable answer?

Now, there are some who are delusional and there is no such thing as a right answer to them. However, I believe most people are rational, and the ones who make up the crackpot delusional types are a small fraction of society. Even if someone is stubborn in what they believe, or are steadfast with their self conceived views of the world; people have no right to ridicule or ostracize them for it. Living is a learning experience for all. If we did not question things or investigate our surroundings a little closer, humanity would still be in the Dark Ages. If people want to remain in a box provided by the political parties, more power to them.

However, if some want to emancipate themselves from the chains of political indoctrination, what is the the harm in that. If I remember correctly, our Founding Fathers would have been scoffed at, ridiculed, and quite possibly executed for their thoughts and beliefs about government business in England? Now, they are lauded as heroes and merchants of innovation and human progress. Like then and today, people have legitimate questions and concerns about the affairs of government. Walking the so-called party line has done nothing to alleviate the serious crisis at hand. The economy is on the verge of collapse, government is near insolvency, wars are being waged, and that goes along with other pitfalls to contend with. It is going to be through innovation, and the smarts of those willing to think outside the box to make any reasonable attempt at thwarting disaster. No one would go into a boxing match with both hands tied behind their backs? Why should we let our politicians and bureaucrats tie our hands behind our backs with party party politics or misplaced loyalties? Perhaps, a small dose of political atheism is just what the doctor ordered? Things seem to be off on numerous fronts, and it should not take a Republican or Democrat to see it.
edit on 6-5-2011 by Jakes51 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 6 2011 @ 10:02 PM
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Originally posted by xuenchen
Perhaps much like the agendas in the Israel / Israel's Enemies Hegelian Dialectic.

The world sees many false flags on all sides in the Middle-East .... BOTH end up profiting somehow !

the MSM tweeks the stories with the "Tri-View" trick ...... TV and newspapers always show:

1. pictures
2. words that don't match the pictures
3. captions that match "none of the above"

it's a classic "view".


That's just it though, no one country has the rights to the Hegelian Dialectic, each uses it.

However, the difference is how, why, and what they use it for.

A majority of them are using it in tandem together towards one singular goal.

And the motive of course is profiting off of it.

This was the motive of 9/11, a release of funds from Congress, forming new organizations.

Changing F.E.M.A., a civilian/military institution, into an active cabinet position.

The Department of Homeland Security.

It is not an actual "Law Enforcement" organization.

Instead it heads all of them combined under Presidential power.

This is one of the missing keys of information people keep missing when it comes to motive.

When investigating, whether as Law Enforcement, or as conspiracy theorists the principle is the same.

Motive, means, and opportunity.

Motive, financial gain, power gain, restructuring of organizational controls.

Means, during "training missions", loose cannons, overlooked F.B.I. evidence.

Opportunity, F.E.M.A. sits quietly and passively until a disaster, unless it is training.

Currently I'm working on a mega-thread in the 9/11 forum area to outline all of this information.

It will all be under the umbrella of fraud, financially, and ignoring the how, focusing on the why.

T.S.A. : Birth of A Monster, Coup Against American Rights, F.E.M.A. Started and D.A.R.P.A. Finished

One other thread I did this similarly on is the one above.

People keep focusing on the wrong, dead wrong, aspects of the investigation.

The HOW is the easiest part of the puzzle.

The WHY is what must be focused on and pulled apart.

When investigating, it is who, what, why, when, and how, you must look at every angle.

As far as the Mainstream Media, I do believe it is a part, but not necessarily willingly.

Of course some newspapers and television news puppet and parrot back the official story.

Of course some newspapers and television news puppet and parrot back the lies.

Of course some newspapers and television news puppet and parrot back the truth.

It is not just towards a simplistic end through tricks and tweaks though.

It is the usage of the differences of society in order to divide and conquer viewpoints.

Our perspectives are what are targeted in order to cause us to argue, complain, or disagree.

A simpler example is of course the same name as a Glenn Beck book.


Quote from : Wikipedia : Overton Window

The Overton window, in political theory, describes a "window" in the range of public reactions to ideas in public discourse, in a spectrum of all possible options on a particular issue.

It is named after its originator, Joseph P. Overton, former vice president of the Mackinac Center for Public Policy.


Both Overton and Beck stole this from Hegel though.

Well, maybe not stole, appropriated and borrowed.

We as humanity through different nations are targeted though.

This is a part of the negative aspects of the Hegelian Dialectic's usage.

"Problem, Reaction, Solution" by Jose Gude


The Hegelian Dialectic is quite simple and ordinary once you understand it.


Quote from : Wikipedia : Dialectic : Hegelian Dialectic

...

The formula, Thesis-Antithesis-Synthesis, does not explain why the Thesis requires an Antithesis.

However, the formula, Abstract-Negative-Concrete, suggests a flaw in any initial thesis—it is too abstract and lacks the negative of trial, error and experience.

The same applies to the formula, Immediate-Mediated-Concrete.

For Hegel, the Concrete, the Synthesis, the Absolute, must always pass through the phase of the Negative, that is, Mediation.

This is the actual essence of what is popularly called Hegelian Dialectics.

...


I was taught this principle by my Vietnam era Marine stepfather.

He taught me using it in tandem with Martial Arts and teaching me self-defense.

It was quite simple.
edit on 5/6/11 by SpartanKingLeonidas because: Adding Depth and Insight Into the Post.



posted on May, 6 2011 @ 10:16 PM
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Originally posted by crimvelvet
reply to post by ~Lucidity
 





...Also, in reading this it came to me that perhaps being part of a "group" or being "agreed" with or acting out of character to be "like" simply isn't as important to some as to others....


Yes I think that is very true.

I was about eight or nine when I made the decision I rather be my own person than conform to a group just to be liked. I can remember sitting at the kitchen table and having a long discussion about it with my Mom.

(Gee, I guess you were right about learning to be a leader, or at least independent SpartanKingLeonidas)


Learning to lead and leading are very similar.

Both can be frustrating and lonely.

Leadership is one of the loneliest positions in the world.

Because you never know who is going to try to use you.

So, friends are at a premium, you count them as very few.

I was taught to never succumb to peer pressure if it was for menial reasons.

As in cigarette smoking, drinking to be social, or to "be in a clique".

Those are those idiotic social distractions and people who follow those cliques are simple people.

As a teenager I stood up on a moving school bus and screamed for the others boys to get their God-damned (not the word) drugs away from me, and made myself a target, for standing my ground, for standing for my beliefs, for standing up against a social peer group who was trying to get me to join in on their idiocy, my perspective of course, against my will, trying to get me to "run with their group", and I would have ended up in jail.

They were not quite as bright nor quite as quiet as they assumed they were as I am hypersensitive.

As well I am hyper-vigilant.

Always have been and always will be.



posted on May, 7 2011 @ 12:13 AM
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reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
 


that is a great "snap shot" of the main theme of Hegelian philosophies.

it takes two to tango (or three, or four, etc !).

the Israel and their enemies dilemma is a bit unique.......many "operations" simultaneously occurring in a limited area.

and I always thought Beck's twists were familiar !

thank you



posted on May, 7 2011 @ 12:20 AM
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reply to post by crimvelvet
 


I've never been an Ayn Rand fan at all, yet you make some damn fine points. I guess you did a really good job of proving that when you strip away all the BS philosophical differences both Left and Right can end up agreeing on some very fundamental issues. Bravo!

Now how do we get the rest of America to realize this?

Reminds me of a how recently the Supreme Cort basically snuck a decision past us all that overturned something like a hundred years of precedent, Allowing Mega Corporations the freedom to openly fund whatever candidate they want with as much money as they care to spend. I remember that a poll was taken afterwards that showed a HUGE majority of both Republicans and Democrats alike were completely against the decision.



posted on May, 7 2011 @ 12:36 AM
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Just had an idea... perhaps a suitable way to fix our broken political system, would be to separate state and corps. They should have two separate non interchangeable currencies. A civil currency for political campaigns, civil projects, government etc... (issued by the people to government), and the dollar for business, the free market, etc.....

I really haven't thought this through at all, feel free to change it up, and offer suggestions/criticism. It seems to me this would fix a large amount of our problems though. Maybe create new ones idk.



posted on May, 7 2011 @ 07:25 AM
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Originally posted by xuenchen
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
 


that is a great "snap shot" of the main theme of Hegelian philosophies.

it takes two to tango (or three, or four, etc !).

the Israel and their enemies dilemma is a bit unique.......many "operations" simultaneously occurring in a limited area.

and I always thought Beck's twists were familiar !

thank you


I was discussing a different thread on Muslim's and a European ATS'er was surprised as an American, that I knew anything about the Hegelian Dialectic, but being a well-rounded individual, I see it as a surprise more people do not.

I will say too few American citizens are educated on such things though.

Israel has had enemies for thousand of years and the things happening today are petty.

The entire Middle East has been at one stage of war or another forever.

Guess What I Got For Christmas? The Complete Infidel's Guide to the Koran

The above thread is the one where he and I had that discussion.

As you can see by the title my parents choice of Christmas gifts is sometimes unique.


I was definitely surprise to say the least.

And it does take two to tango.


Treason Via Proxy : It Takes Two To Tango, Refuse To Dance, and Stop the False Flag Operation

The people who pull off False-Flag Operations cannot do it without patsies and fools.

Personally, I believe Lee Harvey Oswald was just such a man, in the middle.

When speaking of False-Flag Operation's I always reference Arlington Road.

Arlington Road Trailer


They do not just happen overnight nor by accident they are planned for years.

And the people who they subject to their idiocy are targeted for their viewpoints.

Finding some "left-wing" or "right-wing" fringe person or element is the goal.

Are You "Right-Wing Fringe", or "Left-Wing Fringe" and How Will They Push You

To use that person as a stooge or element as a springboard.

This is why I tell ATS'ers not to be so adamant about their stances and or perspectives.

And I suggest people walk away from violent and hate-filled rhetoric.

Instead, opening a non-profit, and a policy think-tank will be much more powerful.

Continue down that hate-filled path and your name will become a household watch-word.

No one wants to be remembered for being an Oswald, McVeigh, or Osama bin Laden.

Not one person I know at least.
edit on 5/7/11 by SpartanKingLeonidas because: Adding Depth and Insight Into the Post.



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