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The Paradox of the Left/Right Political Divide and the Denial of Conspiracies

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posted on May, 6 2011 @ 10:23 AM
Think conspiracy theorists are loopy, tinfoil-wearing, "woo"-believing bastards?


con·spir·a·cy (kn-spîr-s)
n. pl. con·spir·a·cies
1. An agreement to perform together an illegal, wrongful, or subversive act.
2. A group of conspirators.
3. Law An agreement between two or more persons to commit a crime or accomplish a legal purpose through illegal action.
4. A joining or acting together, as if by sinister design.


Conspiracy: An agreement between two or more persons to engage jointly in an unlawful or criminal act, or an act that is innocent in itself but becomes unlawful when done by the combination of actors.


So, still think conspiracies in high levels are unlikely?

Obama and pharma companies meeting behind closed doors? Cheney and oil Execs meeting in secret? Bush Sr. and the Bin Ladens meeting on the morning of 9/11? Bohemian Grove, etc, etc, etc.

You think these powerful people meet to play a game of hungry hungry hippos? Obviously, they do not get together in secret to bring good on us plebeians, right? If they did, they'd be shouting it out for all to praise their magnanimity! How naive/mentally dependent on the gov/paid shill can someone be to not see this by now?

By the way, if at this stage in the game you still believe in the Dem/Repub left-right garbage and the false choice elections give us, then you are either a paid shill, enriching your$elf from others' misery or frightened to the point of retardation.

Truth hurts but someone has to unleash it. Dammit.

posted on May, 6 2011 @ 10:40 AM
The best way to defend yourself from both the left and the right is to determine just who has all the money and who is keeping that money from you.

Then chose the side that is more likely to give you at least a little money and vow to change that side. Don't chose a third party that will never ever win an election. That is the path to division and failure.

Who isn't paying you what you are worth?
Who is cheating your government out of fair taxes and your people's work force out of jobs?

Another way to defend yourself is by repeating over and over the true facts.

The U.S. unemployment rate isn't 9.7%, it is really 16.7% with people looking for full time jobs.
49% of all new U.S. jobs are low wage $9 to $13 per hour. McDonald's had 1 million applicants.
U.S. corporate profits are up 65% the highest in history, yet workers feel underpaid.
China and Russia feel that the U.S. consumer can't purchase, so they are about to dismiss the U.S. dollar.

posted on May, 6 2011 @ 11:19 AM
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

You know it might, but the truth is it's not just the politicians that are sorely needing to be changed but many of the laws...

The top couple on my agenda are the Federal Reserve Act.

The UN-Constitutional interpretation of the Commerce Clause.... The wheat grown for home use by a farmer affects interstate commerce and therefore can be regulated by the FEDERAL government???? Give me a break, that is the most absolute bovine feces I have ever heard!

The use by the President of Executive Orders to short circuit the legislative branch of government.

The repeal of several treaties - NAFTA, WTO to begin with.

Limiting ALL government employment to a MAX of 1% of the work force. After all if 1% of the work force can feed the entire nation, producing 46% of the world’s soybeans, 41% of the world’s corn, 20.5% of the world’s cotton and 13% of the world’s wheat AND account for 16% of the GNP, we do not need 17% of the work force employed by the Federal government to regulate us now do we?

And last the ability for the voters to RECALL elected officials.

posted on May, 6 2011 @ 11:21 AM
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

You're opinion is dead on. I find the manner in which the political class addresses the American people offensive, to say the least. I am a conservative libertarian, and I hate the republican/democrat paradigm. I look at issues with a right/wrong mindset as opposed to left/right or a Republican/Democrat mindset. I think the people that are hell bent on supporting a party only because that is their "team" are the main reason that we are in the trouble that we are in. When someone votes for a politician without basing their vote on principal or what they honestly believe in they weaken our country even more. When politicians in congress vote the party line instead of voting for legislation based on their principals and beliefs they weaken our country. The question is how do you fix it? The problem can't be solved through the same voting process that got us here in the first place, at least I don't think that it can.

posted on May, 6 2011 @ 11:21 AM

Originally posted by crimvelvet
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

...."The problem" is people tend to want someone to follow instead of leading themselves and others.

I certainly agree with you there.

As I see it the source of the problem is fourfold.

First is genetics. We are social creatures so not that many leaders (Alphas) are born to begin with. If everyone was an "ALPHA" we would not be able to coporate as well as we do.

I'm not so certain I agree with your assessment about Alpha males and female.

Not in regards to genetics at least.

I do agree the Alpha male and female is not often found.

Personally, I see the "Alpha" as something created, if you will, through environment.

Meaning, people go through different experiences, and they tend to lean towards it or not.

In wolf packs there is a social pecking order if you will.

The alpha, beta, gamma, delta, and omega are the classifications.

Quote from : Wikipedia : Alpha (Ethology)

In social animals, the alpha is the individual in the community with the highest rank.

Where one male and one female fulfill this role, they are referred to as the alpha pair (the term varies when several females fulfill this role – it is extremely rare among mammals for several males to fulfill this role with one female).

Other animals in the same social group may exhibit deference or other symbolic signs of respect particular to their species towards the alpha.

The alpha animals are given preference to be the first to eat and the first to mate; among some species they are the only animals in the pack allowed to mate.

Other animals in the community are usually killed or ousted if they violate this rule.

The term "alpha male" is sometimes applied to humans to refer to a man who is powerful through his courage and a competitive, goal-driven, "take charge" attitude.

With their bold approach and confidence "alpha males" are often described as charismatic.

While "alpha males" are often overachievers and recognized for their leadership qualities, their aggressive tactics and competitiveness can also lead to resentment by others.

The term "alpha female" is used to refer to females that possess similar traits.

The status of the alpha is often achieved by means of superior physical prowess.

The individual in the alpha position usually changes when another challenges it to a fight, in some species to the death, and wins.

Consequently, alphas may have to fight individuals in their own group several times to maintain their position throughout their lifetimes.

In species where the fight is to the death, alphas rarely reach old age.

In some species, a nomadic individual may approach the alpha, successfully beat him, and thus become the new alpha.

When this occurs in the lion community, the new alpha usually kills the previous alpha's cubs.

In addition, several lions may share alpha privileges in what is usually called a coalition.

The social group usually follows the alpha to the hunt and to new breeding or resting grounds.

The alpha is thus sometimes seen as deciding the fate of the group.

If two groups of the same species find themselves competing for the same ground, they may let the alphas fight, letting the outcome decide which group stays.

The same is true in humans, albeit not many people recognize this, nor do many want to.

It is something I have studied all of my life through psychology, sociology, and an interest in animals.

Not to mention being raised by a Vietnam era Marine who was my stepfather.

An alpha-male if I've ever seen one.

I am an alpha-male 100%.

To get to this status though I have lived through every stage of all of the classifications as well.

On the male side of course but I have observed it in females just as much as in males.

My stepfather taught me conflict de-escalation skills through the use of the animal kingdom.

So, I've learned the "alpha-role" in every tangible meaning, through every animal.

The list is too long to go into which ones were covered.

Let me say it is safe to say both predator and prey and how they interact and the survival of species.

Now, add to this, all aspects of warfare, Government, Law Enforcement among other things.

I can and always do spot all other alpha's whether they want that or not and take action accordingly.

Here on ATS I see it in the digital sense through personalities coming across the computer screen.

In real life it has lead to some hairy situations but I have survived all encounters.

The alpha-male/alpha female status in society is a large part of why division happens easily too.

Especially when it comes to the Government, Military, Intelligence Agencies, and Law Enforcement.

It is as well why we as conspiracy theorists cannot let go of events like 9/11 due to seeing it.

Whether we officially recognize that as a part of it or not we see the social interactions of the cover-up.

Through the eyes of the "alpha" in a microcosm of different details and perceptions.

I had a local friend who I was discussing the events of 9/11 ask me if I had watched "Loose Change".

He asked this, he is an alpha, by the way, because of my perceptions of the conspiracy.

To say he was shocked that I'd never viewed "Loose Change" or any other docu-drama about 9/11 is an understatement, he thought it was just because I followed the conspiracy theory community, which to his credit, was his biggest mistake with me, something I remedied by a simple explanation of the details of my life.

Having been a conspiracy theorist now since the age of 6 and now currently 37 shocked him.

So many people claim that title but do not value it and or do not delve into it or live it.

I claim it, I live it, I breath it, but not as a "tin-foil hat" wearing nutcase like some.

But because I was raised as one for a purpose for something much greater than just to theorize.

Originally posted by crimvelvet
Second, John Dewey, Father of modern progressive education and a co-founder of the American Fabian Society, determined how to change the American school system into a system that would produce "co-dependents" and NOT independent thinkers.

I'm not so sure John Dewey was the only influence upon that as much as Melvin Dewey.

The father of the Dewey Decimal System but I do recognize John Dewey as well.

The Fabian Society is a large part of it as well as much as the Hegelian Dialectic.

Through these people and associations as well as political views we as humans are just a number.

At least as far as politicians and their masters are concerned.

This is where I both disagree and refuse to be put into that box as "just a number".

I am not just a number.

Neither am I just a white man.

Nor am I just an American citizen.

The boxes we place ourselves in define who we are and I refuse to be put into a box.

Until it is a pine-box buried six feet under with myself buried.

Buried face down so the world can kiss my ass goodbye.

I've lived the "co-dependent" life and let me tell you it sucks to no end.

And I will never live it that way ever again.

One of the first things out of my mouth when addressing a future lifemate is I want a relationship.

I do not need one.

Breaking the cycle of co-dependency is something I try to attain daily.

I am as independent as they come and I do it for a reason.

A family is something that I see as a luxury and not only that potentially a detriment.

A weapon to be used against me by those who would harm and or kill me.

Remember, with Greeks, betrayal comes from within, the Trojan Horse and all.

A family is something I want but do not need because I've only had myself to count on.

While yes I've lived within a family mine was nothing to inspire creating a new one.

I am much happier being single than I've ever been as a couple.

I know teamwork but I've rarely seen it work as a family unit and I prefer solitary life.

I will work within a team as necessary, if necessary, but only if it is necessary.

One of the few things I am grateful for with my family is it taught me to think and be independent.

In spite of those labels society tried and failed to place upon me.

In spite of those educational values pushed into my head where thinking was not allowed.

In spite of peer pressure and the ignorance of following the crowd.

I have stood my ground and survived and will carry on and eventually settle down into a family.

Knowing damn good and well my family may well end up like Randy Weaver's family did.

But not if I can help it.

I am headed towards a different path then Weaver stupidly followed.

For you are talking to a future politician, a future United Nation member, a future world leader.

Originally posted by crimvelvet
Third, there has been a movement to convince parents it is necessary to provide an "ultra-safe" environment for their children. People are now afraid to allow kids on their property for fear of a lawsuit. Heck you do not dare let a kid feed a calf, pet a goat, chase the pigs, climb the fruit trees, explore the cave or ride you horse without a release signed and witness by a lawyer AND a multi-million dollar insurance package! Unfortunately wrapping kids in cotton and sitting them in front of the boob tube or a computer instead of having them interact with reality, has produced a society that cannot distinguish between reality and illusion

Hell, I've done each and every one of those things, and many more.

Most children "played war" in the woods for fun.

My brother and I played war in the woods for survival training.

Other children gave up and went home and we dug in and cleared paths.

Screw lawyers and their lawsuits and cotton-wrapped momma's boys.

Let me bleed and get bruises, gashes, and stitches.

My parents, more so my stepfather, taught me to lock all the doors and windows.

They also taught me to gouge eyes, go for the jugular, and kick in the balls if cornered.

I had a 22 rifle in my hands at age 9 and could pop a nail from 75 yards on a shed.

The left/right paradigm does not concern me, it infuriates me, makes me worry for others.

Originally posted by crimvelvet
And most recently, any kid who show "anti-social" behavior is labeled and doped to the gills.

These are the smart kids who are bored out of their skulls because the course work has been dumbed down, these are the kids who question, these are the kids who are the independent thinkers. These are the kids who are our future leaders.

How come every time I turn over a rock the slimy thing that crawls out is named Rockefeller....

I am so glad my parents weren't foolish enough to fall for those gimmicks.

A.D.D., A.D.H.D., bi-polar, these are labels, nothing more, for pushing drugs.

Plasticized drugs with side-effects dosed into children to induce a stupefied living coma.

Can't handle the child during school?

Have the Principal bring the parents in for a teacher conference and explain Ritalin.

Can't handle the aggressive boy or girl?

Put them in sports but tell them EVERYONE gets a trophy.

Can't handle the outspoken youth?

Label him or her as troubled and take overcautious measures.

For he or she might be on the verge of becoming a bell-tower sniper.

The reason the Rockefeller name, as the Bush name, Clinton name, or Morgan name is linked to all of these different things is because they are the ones pushing doping up the children, dumbing down America, and having us put ourselves into cages through becoming "just a number", the R.F.I.D. chip program with a digital slave collar, and as well making the world into the perfect vision of what society should be according to the Secret Societies.
edit on 5/6/11 by SpartanKingLeonidas because: Adding Depth and Insight Into the Post.

posted on May, 6 2011 @ 11:53 AM
reply to post by Jobeycool

I believe this government but they are playing way to much dangerous politics and are becoming untrustworthy.

I used to trust the government too. Then about six years ago I heard they wanted to RFID tag all my animals and I would have to report to the government within 24 hours every time I went on a trail ride with my neighbors.

I started investigating the "rumour" and as Klassified's movie character did I "looked through the glasses" and was horrified by what I found.

Nothing is as the news media would have us believe. We are deliberately lied to and deliberately harmed by the traitors in Washington.

I wrote a series of posts about the Traitors in the White House HERE

Once you realize we are sheared like sheep on a periodic basis by the elite who wish to remove the wealth we have accumulated. That we are just "Free Range Slaves" the evidence just about jumps out and bites you on the nose.

Heck it doesn't take much to see the current economic collapse was deliberately orchestrated as I show in the posts I reference. However you first have to want to LOOK and you have to do so with an open mind.

Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened.

Sir Winston Churchill

posted on May, 6 2011 @ 11:57 AM
reply to post by phatpackage

Man you would make a good politician ..... but anyway. It's yes or no answer. are those terms I mentioned as offensive as the ones you mentioned that are labelled at the conspiracy community!

Hey phatpackage! Good to see you posting and asking the high quality questions. I know you replied to Proto but I hope it will not offend if I give my two cents to this very good post.

You have recognized and seen both sides of the coin so to speak and that is what I believe this thread has been about. For me anyway. You are cognizant of the fact that for anyone casting a label at someone or someone's group, there is an equal and opposite label being applied to them and their group as well at the very same time. Most people do not realize this especially when the debates are heated.

No, it's not alright to label those who disagree with you as anything but there is a way to find out why various labels appear between two or more sides of an issue. I believe we have to raise the quality of our own questions. to better understand where the differing view points have arisen. If we can put ourselves in their shoes as they say, we can begin to understand one another better.

There are conspiracy theorists who will not accept the official story and never will. There are those that accept the official story no matter what they are told. I believe raising the quality of our own questions will lead to the answers that elude us.

Conspiracy minded people seem to always hearken to past events when presented with an official story. They remember the times when the official story that was given was far from the truth and who benefited from such falsehoods. This mind set comes from studying the past and realizing that governments can at times be misleading, but even when there is no conspiracy at all these people do not acknowledge it and they continue on with their circular logic.

Those that accept the official story seem not to consider the past as much. They tend to look at the surface of the matter and see that it is seemingly correct. Just because things have gone on in the past doesn't mean that it can happen today. They seem to always accept what is being presented to them. When debated those people will vigorously protect the official story. Even when given absolute proof of a matter, they don't acknowledge it and they continue on with their circular logic.

Let's ask why it comes to this then? Why do both fields of thought seem to mimic the other in the end?

We are told that without differing viewpoints things would be pretty boring. Variety is the spice of life. Different strokes for different folks. This is where our train of thought leads us at this juncture. With our hands in the air exclaiming oh well, we just disagree. There is no consensus and both sides are left scratching their heads in confusion. Meanwhile, right or wrong, the beat goes on.

I don't believe that I've ever wondered why both sides end up in the same camp, but we accept it just the same. There's nothing you can do about that. We can agree to disagree right? This result is the result that is very predictable and both sides can be counted on to end up there.

Both sides want to make their points heard and both sides want their points to be accepted by the majority. Will that make either side correct? I believe there is a sense of accomplishment when and if the majority seems to take your position on a matter and in the eyes of the majority the matter is settled and the truth has prevailed. Chalk one up for your team.

Has the might makes right mentality been infused into our brains so as to be second nature? Is it that important for our ideas on a matter be accepted?

It doesn't seem to matter how either side wins the majority. Ambiguous information, deceptive tactics, consistent illusions and coercive strategies are all at both sides disposal and are unleashed in seemingly critical matters. It seems to me that both sides are guilty of holding on to their beliefs desperately sometimes, without entertaining any other possibility.

This leads me to my prior post where I mentioned that people really do want to be told what to believe. So much so that they demand it and will not accept the curtain going down on the play they are viewing and will see it to the end. They know the script and will not deviate.

I believe it is necessary to understand first and foremost what our shared values are and I believe there would be a consensus among everyone. We all want to survive, have food and everything that sustains us. This seems to me like a good place to start.

Do we really need everyone to believe our side to sustain the above shared value? Is this very basic need threatened by the other side? We may be lead to believe that through campaigns and subtle illusions that have been created for the very purpose of instilling fear of exploring another idea that is contrary to the initial impressions on an issue that you have embraced. Remember that first impressions are important because we tend to support our initial feelings and reactions to, in a way, justify them.

Now we must go back I believe. Back to what we learned at a very young age and see if our way of thinking and resolving issues is being affected by what our decision making processes have been molded to incorporate and allow to be contemplated. Is it fear of changing that way of thinking and has it been linked to much grander absolutes that threaten the above shared value? Can we in fact realize that we are allowed to explore new avenues of thought, without any fear of retribution or discontinuation of the above shared value? I believe we are all grown ups here and we are capable of that.

Now when the other side is considered can you in fact see merit in it? Are you able to understand why there is another viewpoint? Can you understand the reasoning and has the other side made it clear enough? Are you able to acknowledge that it is right or wrong or a possibility? Can you elaborate why you feel that way and present it coherently? Can we as a people trust ourselves enough to put our own resolution on a matter without disrupting that one shared value?

The following is my way of thinking on issues that come up. It is conspiratorial.

I believe a lot of times that the issues we are presented with are already predetermined. We are predictable and we can be counted on to remain complacent no matter what they have determined for us. The majority has before hand been groomed to understand the end result that will arise from this issue and they welcome it. With this, I wonder what else have we been told to welcome in the future and embrace as the inevitable end result? Can it be changed?

So by raising the quality of our questions we can in fact begin to understand the other side better. We can question our own conspiracies and we can question the official story. Taking the official story at face value, for me anyway, will not happen unless all of my quality questions have been answered without claiming national security as the end all answer.

There are a lot of factors that go into this division strategy. Social engineering is a paramount project at this time and has been for some time in my mind. They create for us no real way to interpret an explanation by communicating finality and leaving far too many questions.

To discover the deception in the messages we must put aside view points and study the intentions that will result from the issues that have been granted finality by the majority. You see, they too can be predictable.

When we find ourselves misunderstanding one another to major degrees and confusion is king we must step back and realize how predictable we are being and understand that the issues raised are formulated in such a way as to make comprehension between the purposely forged divisions unattainable.

edit on 6-5-2011 by jackflap because: changed thead to thread and except to accept

posted on May, 6 2011 @ 12:20 PM

Originally posted by crimvelvet

We are TRAINED from childhood to be members of a "team"

We are? Playing sports and the nonsense we're seeing today? I don't see much of a correlation.

Neither I nor my sisters nor my children were trained for this from childhood. This is much too broad a statement, and I'm thinking this is a different beast.

edit on 5/6/2011 by ~Lucidity because: (no reason given)

posted on May, 6 2011 @ 01:03 PM

Originally posted by TerryMcGuire
And then we come down to elections. And they give us "THE CHOICE". And we choose and in this expression of freedom, of our free will, we choose. And in choosing we become a defender of that choice because then we are defending ourselves.

I will repeat this. Mostly for myself because I have never realized this before.

When we choose, we choose who we are . Every choice we make defines us to ourselves. And it is the nature of the self, to defend itself, to seek continuance.

And the cycle just continues and continues and continues.
AND THIEY KNOW THIS. They have allowed this false either/or thing to go on because they understand the cycle and how consciousness is attuned to it.

Well I have voted since 1972, and you know what. I AM DONE WITH IT.

I can feel the shackles falling from my shoulders as I seek to defend myself.

posted on May, 6 2011 @ 01:18 PM
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

....So many people claim we had no foreknowledge of Pearl Harbor or 9/11.

This is a completely false claim due to those lost pieces of history many are too lazy to sift through....

Someone did do the sifting through history. I do not know if what he is saying is true because I have not chased down the original documents but it is certainly an interesting read.

Days of Infamy and

We can even see the same tried and true formula shown in the article being implemented today. I cover it in Napolitano sets stage for False Flag Terrorist Attack

posted on May, 6 2011 @ 01:57 PM
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Society is brainwashed. I hate to say it, but it’s true.

There seems to be a lot of people screaming “conspiracy theory” whenever an argument arises that doesn’t fit nicely with what they have chosen to believe, regardless of the vast amounts of supporting evidence. Today, many “conspiracy theories” are truly conspiracy “fact”, and as more and more people are beginning to wake up to the reality – it is only natural that first they go through a state of denial. I know I did. This stage too shall pass.

It’s like one of those crazy images from the late 80s early 90s, the 3-D stereograms? You look and look- you squint, step back and still you can’t see it. Then, finally you do.

And then, you can’t not see it. It’s there for good, and it won’t go away.

I don’t watch TV anymore. Don’t misunderstand, it’s not because i don’t enjoy it. It’s because I (like others) enjoy it so much that it diverts me from the important things happening in the world. I love “House”. Hugh Laurie’s portrayal of the gratingly sarcastic but brilliant “Sherlock Holmsian” character is second to none.

And Heroes? I loved “Heroes”. The supernatural powered fight between good and evil was excellent entertainment to keep my attention away from the facts. But that’s all it was.

The real heroes are the volunteers, the special few that dedicate their lives to making the world a better place for mankind. The true scientists of the world, like Nicola Tesla, who work towards goals like free energy for all, are the real heroes:

"Science is but a perversion of itself unless it has, as its ultimate goal the betterment of humanity. ... What we want is closer contact and better understanding between individuals and communities all over the earth, and the elimination of egoism and pride... Peace can only come as a natural consequence of universal enlightenment."

Nikola Tesla, 1919

Firefighters, rescue workers, true journalists, soldiers (though often misguided by the powers that be), famine relief volunteers- all heroes by any definition of the word. You know the type. People that have the courage to make the safety of others their foremost priority, and they put their lives on the line daily to further that cause.

Most of them work for little or no pay at all.

The real villains (and they are out in force) are the Banksters. The Fat Cat predators and those of their ilk like J.P. Morgan, whose true colors were revealed in his remarks to Tesla, before pulling project funding at Wardencliffe Tower:

“If this will allow unlimited energy out of the air, where do you put the meter?”

These villains that are devoutly committed to deliberately sabotaging humanitarian efforts are the real “Evil”, because they want a price tag on everything.

Our reliance on the almighty “dollar” is directly responsible for the majority of crises that we as a society face. The “Dollar” is the supreme motivator by which all other motivations blindly follow, regardless of intelligence or logic. It is the great distractor.

The “Dollar” gets officials elected. Once elected the officials must repay the supplier of “campaign funds” with “favors”. These favors, be they either an appointment to a governmental position, or a vote in the suppliers interest, amount simply to legalized bribery. The interests of the people are circumvented, and the interests of the dollar are furthered.

The vast majority of “The People” are so distracted by the pursuit of ‘just enough’ dollars to remain sheltered and fed, that their free time is non-existent. Working exhaustive hours to attain these “dollars” keeps the majority from being a real threat to the status quo, by keeping [the people] from having enough time to find out what really motivates the ‘career politicians’ they vote for.

We regularly put the fate of ourselves and our country into the hands of the lesser of two evils without any research into what they actually “do.” We just blindly, and foolishly trust what they say, because we are too busy spending the miniscule amount of free time we have left relieving work stress (or trying to) through the participation in, or use of “big money”, elitist owned distractions like TV, Sports, liquor, drugs, etc.

This is exactly how our “masters” want it. We are only allotted enough free time for “stress relieving” not for “goal achieving”. We are slaves.

Today, I stand before the world a changed man. I no longer consider myself a republican, nor do I claim allegiance to the “democratic” party. I no longer have faith in the phony “left/right” illusion of choice paradigm.

To quote Jesse Ventura-

“Politics today is a lot like Pro Wrestling. When the cameras are on, it’s all flash and threats of ass kicking from both sides of the aisle, but when the lights turn off they are all friends and hang out together.”

They both support issues, together, that further the interests of the corporations, not the people.

Carrol Quigley, Bill Clinton's Mentor at Georgetown, verifies this himself in a passage from his book Tragedy and Hope:

The argument that the two parties should represent opposed ideals and policies, one, perhaps, of the Right and the other of the Left, is a foolish idea acceptable only to the doctrinaire and academic thinkers. Instead, the two parties should be almost identical, so that the American people can "throw the rascals out" at any election without leading to any profound or extreme shifts in policy.

We are not supposed to be ruled by the politicians. They are supposed to serve us. Our Government was founded “By, of, and For the People”. There have been prominent figures throughout history attempting to educate us to this illusion of freedom, and somehow they all end up silent:

Jim Morrison:

"If my poetry aims to achieve anything, it's to deliver people from the limited ways in which they see and feel."

Abraham Lincoln:

"As I would not be a slave, so i would not be a master. This expresses my idea of democracy. Whatever differs from this, to the extent of the difference, is no democracy.

Mahatma Gandhi:

“The moment the slave resolves that he will no longer be a slave, his fetters fall. Freedom and slavery are mental states.”

John Lennon:

"We must always remember to thank the CIA and the Army for '___', by the way. Everything is the opposite of what it is, isn’t it? They brought out '___' to control people."

Dr. Martin Luther King:

“Cowardice asks the question, 'Is it safe?' Expediency asks the question, 'Is it politic?' But conscience asks the question, 'Is it right?' And there comes a time when one must take a position that is neither safe, nor politic, nor popular but because conscience tells one it is right.”

John F. Kennedy:

"The very word 'secrecy' is repugnant in a free and open society; and we are as a people inherently and historically opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths, and to secret proceedings."

Resorting to calling someone anything (conspiracy theorist, birther, racist, nutjob) without researching the facts is simply juvenile.

Painting someone with a label when their arguments are sound, is what is called "ad-hominem". It’s a propaganda term that means when you can’t logically attack someone’s argument, you attack them personally. It is denial, pure and simple.

If, after review of indisputable proof, the only recourse is to call someone "nutjob", it is because acceptance of the indisputable proof would mean the utter destruction of your "reality tunnel" or of the commonly accepted paradigm.

Isolation, Anger, bargaining and depression come next.

But after that comes realization and acceptance.

And with that realization and acceptance comes a sick feeling.

And with that feeling is born a passion and drive to fix whats wrong, and the courage to bring it about.

Then you are compelled to do something about it. Like me. (Unfortunately, doing “something” about it might force you to miss your favorite TV shows.) And then others may call you a “nutjob” too.

But as more wake up, this too shall pass.

Remember, minds are like parachutes, they work better when open

posted on May, 6 2011 @ 02:08 PM
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Timely topic, ProTrav....S&F

I embrace the names you have detailed for us conspiracy theorists as badges of honor...why not? Protesting will not resolve the matter. If one has decided to take the path of truth over PC babble he MUST put on his ego raincoat. You are going to get ridiculed and taunted. Accept it or consign yourself to silence. As for me, I'll not be silenced. I may loose my fashionable standing amongst my peers (assuming I ever had any), but I'll be at peace with myself, knowing I didn't cave in to PC public opinion over TRUTH.

We have many here on ATS now who are "pro-government line" types who post threads supporting BigGov in every issue and poopooing any contra take on the official line. The plot is always the same. They demand proof or evidence that substantiates absolutely the conta story. If evidence is offered, they say it is not acceptable. When asked for evidence that government's story is correct, they don't answer.

A good example of this type thread is currently under way. In this thread the OP spends 12+ pages doing what I described above. The OP is unreachable and it is a waste of time to debate such as this, IMO. See:

I have no proof that this or any other thread is started by dis-info agents. It doesn't matter. Once ID'd for what they are doing, just pass them by. Time is short and we have others who are willing to listen and eager to learn. Carry on!

posted on May, 6 2011 @ 02:09 PM
reply to post by bhornbuckle75

....I remember a time when Conservatives and Liberals alike could meet on common ground. When both parties were horrified at things like the JFK assassination....when people of all ilks could debate things like Roswell and not have it turn into a Left VS Right debate.

I think that honestly at the heart of this problem is this Us Vs Them attitude that seems to be running rampant. ....I guess its just a sign of the times. A reminder to just how much stress and worry is in the world right now.

The problem for the elite is the internet which now lets us exchange ideas easily. If the rank and file Conservatives and Liberals ever quit fighting and TALKED to each other they just might find they have a lot more in common than they think AND they have a common enemy: the banking/corporate Cartel that runs this country.

Before everyone jumps on me with both feet read the WHOLE message since I am going to push a HOT BUTTON

I have not read the book but I just went to see Atlas Shrugged. Any Rand was very pro-capitalist but in this movie she tears strips off the large corporations who are colluding with the government to protect their profit margin and using the government and tame researchers to suppress much needed technology. (Sound like the real life of today doesn't it?)

When you take the left vs right crap out of the picture, are any of us supporting that type of nonsense??? Isn't this exactly what Proto and I and SpartanKingLeonidas complaining about???

I am a capitalist but I HATE the big multi-nationals. This movie really helped clarify the difference between real capitalism - innovation and productivity financed by real wealth and the "pseudo-capitalism" we see today exemplified by corporations like Monsanto.

Yet the "Liberal" aka "banker owned" media is doing their darnedest to kill the movie just as they trashed the novel.

The first and biggest lie that is constantly being thrown in our faces is equating our current banking/corporate/ Cartel with "Capitalism" when nothing could be further from the truth. Capitalism died the day the Federal Reserve Act was signed into law and bankers could lend created on the spot counterfeit money to those they favor.

Gresham's Law, commonly stated as: "Bad money drives out good" is what we have seen for a hundred years as the bankers counterfeit fiat currency has driven out "capital" based money. No wonder the bankers OWN us!

posted on May, 6 2011 @ 02:28 PM
reply to post by notonsamepage

I have been loud since day one, because of it I lost all my friends and the respect of others, only thing they wanna do is to talk # and watch trash tv.

Now I'm alone shouting like idiot...

Yes it is darn lonely out there when you dance to a different drummer. That is what TPTB are counting on. The peer pressure to conform. On the other hand those of us who do NOT CONFORM especially as children can become leaders in the future and that is what TPTB is really worried about.

One or two good friends even if they are "pen pals" or the internet equivalent can help a lot.

posted on May, 6 2011 @ 02:34 PM
reply to post by crimvelvet

There's one group who defines everything as black or white, left or right, and so one. But what I would just love to know is why some people don't. Why do we see a different picture than they do?

I realize that I'm in my own head and know I make an effort to understand the partisan way, but I can't. Not really. I'm not wired that way. So what is it that makes us different? What caused it?

edit on 5/6/2011 by ~Lucidity because: (no reason given)

posted on May, 6 2011 @ 02:35 PM

Originally posted by crimvelvet
reply to post by notonsamepage

I have been loud since day one, because of it I lost all my friends and the respect of others, only thing they wanna do is to talk # and watch trash tv.

Now I'm alone shouting like idiot...

Yes it is darn lonely out there when you dance to a different drummer. That is what TPTB are counting on. The peer pressure to conform. On the other hand those of us who do NOT CONFORM especially as children can become leaders in the future and that is what TPTB is really worried about.

One or two good friends even if they are "pen pals" or the internet equivalent can help a lot.

You are sooo correct!

Jesus Christ is followed by millions now, but during his life he had only twelve followers and they all denied Him in His time of oppression. Truth will ALWAYS out!

posted on May, 6 2011 @ 02:37 PM

Originally posted by ~Lucidity
reply to post by crimvelvet

There's one group who defines everything as black or white, left or right, and so one. But what I would just love to know is why some people don't. Why do we see a different picture than they do?

I realize that I'm in my own head and know I make an effort to understand the partisan way, but I can't. Not really. I'm not wired that way. So what is it that makes us different? What caused it?

edit on 5/6/2011 by ~Lucidity because: (no reason given)

Critical thinking is a rarity.

Embrace your gift.

posted on May, 6 2011 @ 02:58 PM
I originally got into conspiracies hard core around 2002, and realized all the evils done to the people sanctioned by their government. At the time GW was in office along with the Neo cons so it would be easy to simply have said it was the republicans. But as you unmask all of the crimes and corruption you start to notice that it isn't so much a party issue as societal issue. Digging up the pasts of Clinton, GHW and Reagan I realized that it became sort of a game of good cop bad cop depending on which direction of the center you chose to label yourself in. My next realization was that to truly label yourself as something in turn pigeonholes you to the group at large and sways your option (or biases) without even knowing, towards a partisan slant. I refuse to label myself after that and take sides. Admitingly, I fall on the left spectrum in most cases, but I have long come to the conclusion that no represented official regardless whether they fit towards my views could be counted on as long as the system remained the same.

When Obama was in the running, I seen so many progressives bask in the joy of believing they had someone that represented them after years of "oppressive GOP control". I was HIGHLY skeptical due to my years of research on TPTB at the type of contributions and exposure that he received. This relatively unknown senator with few years at office over night became the darling of the left, and I asked how was that possible. He seemed a master at politician speak, cooing sweet sounding words to the public without substance. I knew at that moment that he was a trojan horse. 2000, 2004 elections made me truly cynical about elections and their validity. 2008 was different in that there was no question who won (Mccain being a weak opposite, and droves of democrats, leftists and progressives that voted). But the democracy suffered just as much, because taken were the hopes and dreams which soon morphed into apathy and cynicism.

Now after my time reading and researching I have come to my own conclusion that no President elected will ever be able to change things the way we hoped as a people. That job is left to us, the people and that time will come once this society based on shallow material gains falls in shambles hopefully to be reborn more locally, more justly and ethical through the necessity of survival.
edit on 6-5-2011 by Chewingonmushrooms because: (no reason given)

posted on May, 6 2011 @ 03:02 PM
reply to post by romanmel

Gift in some ways....curse in others? The tool that's being used against us? But as Aeons said in the another thread along similar lines...

Originally posted by Aeons
Remember - being a geek used to be a BAD thing. Then, one day, geeks were running the World.

Making a particular group look like the underdog can have unintended consequences.

You never know....

posted on May, 6 2011 @ 03:07 PM
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

As usual you nail it to the spot, love your thread.

That is why as soon you post some information that is more than just opinions people will stop and perhaps take the time to think, so far is now working for me in some threads on the latest conspiracy, the death of Bin laden . . . or not

So far I am just getting ignored

edit on 6-5-2011 by marg6043 because: (no reason given)

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