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The Paradox of the Left/Right Political Divide and the Denial of Conspiracies

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posted on May, 6 2011 @ 05:43 AM
reply to post by PixelDuster

......Last time I visited a voting booth, there was nowhere to enter a write-in... only the two unseemly choices were available on that digital abomination.

But getting involved in the community... now that's a good thing!

Perhaps I could help educate those who need it... those who think there's only this way or that.....

Now there is where you can make a difference.

My community also had the "digital abomination" but after the Diebold voting machine fraud came to light went back to paper ballots.

This is where an individual armed with accurate information can make a difference!

Researchers find (more) severe flaws in Diebold voting machines
By Ryan Paul | Last updated: 4 years ago

A group of Princeton computer scientists has published a study that examines flaws and vulnerabilities in Diebold's AccuVote-TS voting machines. Complete with a video that demonstrates the ease with which the electronic voting machine can be compromised, the study provides chilling insight into the serious risk of election tampering and fraud created by modern voting technology. The vote-stealing demonstration software developed by the computer scientists "can modify all of the records, audit logs, and counters kept by the voting machine, so that even careful forensic examination of these records will find nothing amiss."

The study reveals that "[m]alicious software running on a single voting machine can steal votes with little if any risk of detection," and that the software can be installed on a voting machine in only a minute by anyone that has physical access. The study also discovered that Diebold's AccuVote-TS systems can be targeted by self-propagating viruses "that can spread malicious software automatically and invisibly from machine to machine during normal pre- and post-election activity." The computer scientists conclude that defects are present in the hardware of the AccuVote-TS as well as the software. Although some issues can be mitigated by software updates, the machines themselves will have to be replaced in order to eliminate some of the problems identified by the study....

posted on May, 6 2011 @ 06:12 AM
reply to post by iterationzero

....when you become a shill for a political party that, ultimately, is controlled by the same people behind the "other" party, you've become part of the problem.

THAT is the core bit of information that needs to get out!

Most people get so involved in "identifying" with their "team" they fail to see that the financial backers of BOTH teams are exactly the same!

Here is something we farmers discovered (Thank you Gizela) when dealing with a very deceitful government.

Welcome to Naisinfocentral and Animal Disease Traceability

The Delphi Technique is the method being used to squeeze citizens out of the process. This is a must read if you feel being controlled in any meetings. The Delphi Technique is a pre-determined outcome.

How many of these 17 statements fits what the USDA is doing to the NAIS Opponents????

Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

by DCDave

Strong, credible allegations of high-level criminal activity can bring down a government. When the government lacks an effective, fact-based defense, other techniques must be employed. The success of these techniques depends heavily upon a cooperative, compliant press and a mere token opposition party.

1. Dummy up. If it's not reported, if it's not news, it didn't happen.

2. Wax indignant. This is also known as the “How dare you?” gambit.

3. Characterize the charges as “rumors” or, better yet, “wild rumors.” If, in spite of the news blackout, the public is still able to learn about the suspicious facts, it can only be through “rumors.” (If they tend to believe the “rumors” it must be because they are simply “paranoid” or “hysterical.”)

4. Knock down straw men. Deal only with the weakest aspects of the weakest charges. Even better, create your own straw men. Make up wild rumors (or plant false stories) and give them lead play when you appear to debunk all the charges, real and fanciful alike.

5. Call the skeptics names like “conspiracy theorist,” “nutcase,” “ranter,” “kook,” “crackpot,” and, of course, “rumor monger.” Be sure, too, to use heavily loaded verbs and adjectives when characterizing their charges and defending the “more reasonable” government and its defenders. You must then carefully avoid fair and open debate with any of the people you have thus maligned. For insurance, set up your own “skeptics” to shoot down.

6. Impugn motives. Attempt to marginalize the critics by suggesting strongly that they are not really interested in the truth but are simply pursuing a partisan political agenda or are out to make money (compared to over-compensated adherents to the government line who, presumably, are not).

7. Invoke authority. Here the controlled press and the sham opposition can be very useful.

8. Dismiss the charges as “old news.”

9. Come half-clean. This is also known as “confession and avoidance” or “taking the limited hangout route.” This way, you create the impression of candor and honesty while you admit only to relatively harmless, less-than-criminal “mistakes.” This stratagem often requires the embrace of a fall-back position quite different from the one originally taken. With effective damage control, the fall-back position need only be peddled by stooge skeptics to carefully limited markets.

10. Characterize the crimes as impossibly complex and the truth as ultimately unknowable.

11. Reason backward, using the deductive method with a vengeance. With thoroughly rigorous deduction, troublesome evidence is irrelevant. E.g. We have a completely free press. If evidence exists that the Vince Foster “suicide” note was forged, they would have reported it. They haven't reported it so there is no such evidence. Another variation on this theme involves the likelihood of a conspiracy leaker and a press who would report the leak.

12. Require the skeptics to solve the crime completely. E.g. If Foster was murdered, who did it and why?

13. Change the subject. This technique includes creating and/or publicizing distractions.

14. Lightly report incriminating facts, and then make nothing of them. This is sometimes referred to as “bump and run” reporting.

15. Baldly and brazenly lie. A favorite way of doing this is to attribute the “facts” furnished the public to a plausible-sounding, but anonymous, source.

16. Expanding further on numbers 4 and 5 (e and f), have your own stooges “expose” scandals and champion popular causes. Their job is to pre-empt real opponents and to play 99-yard football. A variation is to pay rich people for the job who will pretend to spend their own money.

17. Flood the Internet with agents. This is the answer to the question, “What could possibly motivate a person to spend hour upon hour on Internet news groups defending the government and/or the press and harassing genuine critics?” Don't the authorities have defenders enough in all the newspapers, magazines, radio, and television? One would think refusing to print critical letters and screening out serious callers or dumping them from radio talk shows would be control enough, but, obviously, it is not.

posted on May, 6 2011 @ 06:38 AM
reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

....I know how tempting (seductive) it is to take sides and defend our 'chosen' team. I fight it in myself all the time and not as successfully as I'd like.....

This is another key point.

We are TRAINED from childhood to be members of a "team" We are taught team sports. There is considerable pressure brought to bear on kids to join "extra-curricular school activities" (try getting into a good college without that as part of your high school record esp. if you are white middle class and male) Even if you do not play you are expected to show up and support the "team"

As a freshman in college I was REQUIRED to go to all the football and basketball games. At the companies I worked for we had "TEAM BUILDING" training.

This is a subtle method for putting us into a box as voting adults, since as you have notice we then want to defend our "team"

posted on May, 6 2011 @ 06:49 AM
The 'revolution' will occur only once BOTH sides become disillusioned. And that is taking place as we speak.

There was once a time when Politicians represented their local people very well. They knew local issues, listened to the concerns of their neighbors, and answered to their fellow citizens upon their return home.

Representative Government Works. What we have now is not that.

Once the system eats itself, the true leaders will reemerge, and we'll go on about our business.

There's an old African proverb that sums it up best: A real leader lives in the smallest hut.

posted on May, 6 2011 @ 07:25 AM
reply to post by davidgrouchy

So you are saying it is alright for one side to label the other but not the other?

posted on May, 6 2011 @ 07:30 AM
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Man you would make a good politician ..... but anyway. It's yes or no answer. are those terms I mentioned as offensive as the ones you mentioned that are labelled at the conspiracy community!

posted on May, 6 2011 @ 07:50 AM
Good thread S&F

I just turned 18 and can vote now, But I never will. Waste of time and I don't even have faith that they count them.

Plus, it's not the president that is the problem, it is the people that control them.

posted on May, 6 2011 @ 07:54 AM
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

I have to agree. Conspiracy Theorists have gotten a black eye BECAUSE they are claiming too many/too much CONSPIRING is going on. You cannot claim every thing that happens is a conspiracy, or it's like yelling 'Wolf", So quit it with the fake Conspiracy stories so we can maintain some measure of credibility amongst The Real cospiracies.

posted on May, 6 2011 @ 07:57 AM

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
What I am suggesting is taking the emotion out of it, and instead replacing it with honest to goodness questions.

If you find someone with an alternative theory has a theory that offends you, the first question you might want to ask is why does it offend you, because the truth is we live on a planet plagued by war, starvation, theft, murder, disease and fraud, so these things shouldn't be strangers to you.

Become curious. Become genuinely curious!

I have a bit of a spiritual belief that the people who come into our lives serve as mirrors in which to view ourselves. The people I 'tangle' with most here on ATS are the people who are most like me. When I see something in someone else that I have an immediately negative response to, I ask myself - what is it, about me, that I'm seeing and not liking here? Most times it's someone who I see as "harsh", straightforward, confronting and controlling.
Hey! That's me!

But once I realize why my feathers are ruffled, it's much easier to become curious about what they're really saying. Once that initial reaction is recognized, I can put that aside and get to the meat of the disagreement.

Very interesting thread, Proto! I think, ultimately, being here and having discussions with other people, especially those with whom I disagree, helps me learn more about myself than anything else and that's what it's going to take to turn this country around. Self-knowledge. The more aware we are of how we respond to people whose beliefs are different, the more we can fill in the Great Divide that threatens to ruin this country...

Not sure how much this post has to do with the topic, but it's something I wanted to point out.

posted on May, 6 2011 @ 07:59 AM
it's because each side is conditioned to hate the other side while not realizing that both parties act for the same team. It would be like if the Browns fans and the Steelers fans found out that their rivalry makes money for the same owner. Not a huge disappointment but when you transfer this to government and political issues it becomes more dangerous.

posted on May, 6 2011 @ 08:13 AM
reply to post by Jrocbaby

I just turned 18 and can vote now, But I never will. Waste of time and I don't even have faith that they count them.

I turned 18 also and I have to admit, I jumped at the chance to finally be able to vote. I really do think It's great that I, you, we are at an age now where we can actually have the chance to go out and choose someone to represent us or have an opinion voiced in our own democratic way. Not everything will go our way sure, and that's just life, but at least we have the option to change things when the time comes or make opinions known. You know many don't actually have the choice at all, we should be grateful for it.

Call me crazy also, but I actually have faith in the system and in that my, and everyone else's, vote does indeed count.

A lot of people, a growing number It would seem, claim It's one big waste of time, or that their vote simply wouldn't matter If they did vote and so on but these are seemingly baseless claims made from opinions originating from false facts and swayed information. I really couldn't disagree more with the claim that that It's one big ol' waste of time.

This being so, I voted Yes for AV reform yesterday - something which is projected to lose and lose badly. But I still took the time to go out and vote because IMO, It more than matters, if only It's on a personal level. And I can know that even if there is a huge conspiracy and no ones vote is even counted (despite thousands of normal, everyday people counting them), I still gave my opinion on how I think the system should be run instead of disregarding it completely because It seems as though It wouldn't matter.

Anyway, just my opinion..

edit on 6-5-2011 by Rising Against because: (no reason given)

posted on May, 6 2011 @ 08:25 AM

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by TerryMcGuire

I sure can appreciate how you feel.

Politics for many Americans is really no different than the NBA, or NFL, as long as their team is dominating the board they are happy.

They will make excuses for it's failures, often by assigning the blame in the form of a conspiracy by the 'other' party, and even dance in the streets to celebrate it's successes, and gloat too.

Our politicians might as well be gladiators in a Roman Colleseum the way too many Americans view and participate in the process.

Thanks for posting.

I don't even know where to start with this mess. First, the majority of America falls somewhere in the middle, politically speaking. We don't vote straight ticket. The difference is that the outspoken are those that are very partisan in their beliefs. That is very much like the views expressed here. You have some that are outspoken and, like it or not, everything is a conspiracy and nothing will convince them otherwise. Just like a hardcore Conservative will never be convinced that any liberal leaning policy is good.

Let's take OBL, since it's the current conspiracy bomb. Did they kill him or did they take him alive and say they killed him? Personally, I don't care either way. They can have him locked up in some secret compound enduring 24 hour torture as far as I'm concerned. But that's where the questions end for me. He was either killed or taken prisoner and announced as dead on 5/1/2011. The rest of the conspiracies surrounding OBL are all garbage to me, but if someone ends up proving beyond the shadow of a doubt that I am wrong, then I will accept it.

This is where the statement that no amount of evidence will satisfy the conspiracy theorist rings true. If I, or anyone else, were to provide the same proof that the CT'ers are 100 percent wrong about OBL, that evidence would immediately be called fake and dismissed. Around here the only evidence that get to be taken as solid proof is the evidence that lends itself to the CT'ers belief on the subject. Anything else is ignored or ridiculed, which is why the world at large sees Ct'ers as nuts.

Now let's take it out to the broad level and I'll tell you what ATS has told me that the U.S. Government has done just in the last six months, although they seem to be incapable of doing any of it without ATS exposing the "truth".

Made mass killings of various species of animals via HAARP or some other device

Sprayed chemicals all over the U.S. via airplane "chemtrails" to do everything from reduce the population to just make people sick.

Caused a variety of earthquakes via HAARP, including the Japan earthquakes and subsequent nuclear reactor meltdown.

Hidden a massive UFO fleet behind the moon or behind a comet.

Faked an entire President's existance (when all Presidential candidates are vetted prior to office)

Faked the death of OBL

Controlled the weather via HAARP or some othe b.s. (no rain = chemtrails or HAARP. Rain = same dang thing.)

This just off the top of my head! I'm not saying that we have anything near an open government, but some of the above claims are just plain dumb. It really doesn't help when CT'ers make posts that begin with "PROVEN" and then post some news article from a website nobody has ever heard of. What makes that news story any less fabricated than anything else other than it supports the CT'ers belief on the subject? Absolutely nothing.

Yet people that do listen to the "MSM" are called sheep for taking in the facts given, and deciding that there is no conspiracy. What about the people that blindly follow the conspiracy angle on everything and say they never believe a word from the MSM? Are they not the same "sheep" that are simply following a different sheppard?

posted on May, 6 2011 @ 08:43 AM
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Hi Protoplasmic! Ahhh... A voice of reason in a sea of confusion. I started to read through these posts but wanted to reply before my thoughts were jumbled and other replies brought further ideas and possibly confused the whole issue for me.

Thank you for wording what I have felt for many years yet was never able to put quite succinctly. I've tried to engage others in debate about this very issue and understand the divides we have allowed. There are so many; race, politics, status, and so on, and so on, and so on. There are also sub-categories of divisiveness within each that allow us to separate ourselves from co-workers, friends and family. I think this has been a carefully contrived plan.

Now, how do we take back what is rightfully ours? How do "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity" end this stranglehold of us against them? This is a start. Talking about it. Thank you Protoplasmic!

Where do we go from here? Do we start small and just be more open and approachable with all the strangers we meet? Do we take to the streets and demand change? I've been inspired by the many people in Egypt, Libya, Syria, etc... to make my voice be known, but I would also like to do so in an intelligent way that can't be crushed under the heavy boots of our Democracy. I'm open to any and all suggestions.

posted on May, 6 2011 @ 09:02 AM
Great post OP.

...bookmarked and saved in case I need to explain this to someone else again as I already have...

Anyway, as of recently, the figureheads on the news lately have ramped up thier "conspiracy tin foil hat nut-like" insults to a point where it makes it beyond clrea that they are more than aware of the threat we pose to thier beloved establishment.

If everyone or at least the vast majority of people would realize this, we could finally take a great leap forward and get to the truth (or have martial law put into place)... either one would serve the purpose of waking people up anyway...

posted on May, 6 2011 @ 09:07 AM
reply to post by Rigel Kent

Oh please, I really do want more on this tidbit. Toss us a link wouldya?

The fact that George Bush Senior personally groomed Bill Clinton for presidency seems to fly over most ppls heads. Their relationship was about as sordid as it gets in politics and they both represented different parties.

posted on May, 6 2011 @ 09:15 AM
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

....Some would say it long ago became evident the government has no interest in informing us, but rather programing us.....

I think it would be more correct to say that those who run the government from behind the scenes are intent on programing us and deceiving us. This has been going on for at least one hundred years or more.

If you have not yet read Nicole Johnson's article History, HACCP and the Food Safety Con Job do so now and book mark it for future reference.

It is probable one of the most eye opening reports I have read on just how our country is actually run. The report is well documented with pages 6 through 10 listing 38 references. Since the issue is food and not a hot button topic it is very useful for illustration purposes when talking to the "Left" or the "Right"

Look at how she documents the formation of a "Steering Committee" the Committee for Economic Development, established in 1942, who then take on the task of determining US domestic policies. Once the policies are agreed upon they are then implement without any input from the voters or "Stakeholders" I find it mind boggling that decisions made by this group in 1945 are significantly affecting my live NOW. I find it equally astonishing to see how long range and steadfast their planning and implementation actually is. We are talking generations here folks!

She documents the coordinated efforts to implement the agreed on agendas not only through government policy but through our education system and even what research scientist pursue.

...Some of the report's authors would go on to work in government to implement CED's policy recommendations....

...CED members were influential in business, government, and agricultural colleges, and their outlook shaped both governmental policies and what farmers were taught. Farmers found themselves encouraged to give up on a farming system that employed minimal outsourced inputs and capital and get "efficient" by adopting instead a system that required they go into debt in order to purchase ever more costly inputs, like fossil-fuel based fertilizers, chemicals, seeds, feed grain, and machinery.....

the Keystone Center, an establishment think tank with representatives on its board from Monsanto, DuPont, Shell, Coca-Cola, Dow, General Electric and the Rockefeller Foundation, to name a few. The organization's 2001 report "The Keystone National Policy Dialogue on Trends in Agriculture" observes that "Agricultural policy in many respects supported the concentration of farming into larger and fewer units. Some would say agricultural policy is biased toward bigness." [8]

Echoing the plans laid out in CED reports, the Keystone report states that "Agricultural research programs have supported farm consolidation by focusing on substituting capital for labor, rather than developing knowledge and production systems that enable operators of modest-sized farms to enhance their incomes by using management and skills to minimize capital expenditures." [9] It was no accident that research programs at agricultural colleges favored one group at the expense of another.

The Keystone Report also clearly indicates that a focus on a less capital-intensive system would have been financially beneficial for smaller farmers, stating

"Hundreds of millions of public dollars have been invested in research to improve the efficiency of capital-intensive systems, while virtually nothing has been invested in low-cost systems. If this research imbalance were to be addressed, management-intensive systems might in many cases exceed the efficiency of capital-intensive systems. That would improve the competitiveness and income of moderately scaled, owner-operated farms, and counter the trend toward concentration. But this and other research approaches currently get relatively little attention in publicly funded research programs. Changing the research focus is a prerequisite to revitalizing small and medium-sized farms."[10]

The current level of economic concentration we see today is the result of careful strategic planning....

For those who are not already aware of it, our news media is nothing but a propaganda machine for the bankers and has been in their control for a hundred years:

U.S. Congressional Record February 9, 1917: J.P. Morgan interests bought 25 of America's leading newspapers, and inserted their own editors, in order to control the media.

JP Morgan: Our next big media player? (April 13, 2010) ...JP Morgan controls 54 U.S. daily newspapers,and owns 31 television stations...

posted on May, 6 2011 @ 10:01 AM

Originally posted by LexMustReturn
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

I have to agree. Conspiracy Theorists have gotten a black eye BECAUSE they are claiming too many/too much CONSPIRING is going on. You cannot claim every thing that happens is a conspiracy, or it's like yelling 'Wolf", So quit it with the fake Conspiracy stories so we can maintain some measure of credibility amongst The Real cospiracies.

Maybe you could give us some examples of what REAL conspiracies are and some examples of FAKE conspiracies?

However what you have done is neatly put all people with a alternative theory into a collective group, that I am guessing you assume is a collective like the fictional Borg on Star Trek that are some how wired together in some kind of mutual communication process.

By the way when it comes to the countless events where official stories have gaping holes in them and not everything adds up who do you imagine should be the beauty paegant Judge that deterimes what is not a conspiracy and what is?


posted on May, 6 2011 @ 10:04 AM
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

I agree that if we don't get past party politics and come together as a nation, our country will fall, that's for sure. I posted something similar on my facebook the other day, but much shorter. My message was basically:

Our country is more divided than it's ever been, and don't think it's by accident. The oldest trick in the book is divide and conquer! The problems that we have in this country are not Democrat problems, or Republican problems. They are American problems. And if we don't all stop fighting each other and see that, our government is going to lead us right into WWIII.

edit on 6-5-2011 by nikiano because: (no reason given)

posted on May, 6 2011 @ 10:06 AM
Boy, these threads take off so fast it's hard to catch up!

A week or so ago, sorry, can't remember which cable channel it was on (does it matter?), the talking heads were actually promoting the idea that "conspiracy theorists" are mentally unbalanced and something needs to be done! Pass a law! Lock em up!

I qualify as a "conspiracy theorist" because I personally find most conspiracies are well thought out, backed up by facts (beginning with inconsistencies with the "official" story), and frankly some of the best citizen research on the planet. Some "conspiracies" are better documented than others, some are so far out they don't actually qualify as "conspiracies" OR "theories."

When confronted by a conspiracy-skeptic, the first question I ask is, "Well, do you believe everything the government tells you?" The answer is usually an indignant, "Of course not." Then I ask, "Well, then do you believe the government sometimes LIES to the people?" Reluctantly, "Yes, sometimes." Then I ask, "Does the government ever cover-up its corruption and crimes?" Again, reluctantly, because they sense the trap springing, "Yes," they grudgingly admit, "sometimes." Because no matter how skeptical they appear, I've never met anyone who would answer, "Yes, I believe everything the government tells me, no, the government never lies, and no, the government never covers-up its corruption and crimes." Who in their right mind would!?

Which means that, deep down, everyone is a "latent" conspiracy theorist. Conspiracy theorists don't claim that the government always lies, just...sometimes. Often enough, though, to not believe every word the government says as a knee-jerk reaction.

Conspiracy theorists are patriots, and wouldn't be necessary if the mainstream media did their jobs instead of taking dictation and passing it off as "news and analysis."

I am a "conspiracy theorist" -- and proud of it.

posted on May, 6 2011 @ 10:14 AM
When it comes to a face to abolish this paradox, Ron Paul I feel has the means to do so.

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