The Paradox of the Left/Right Political Divide and the Denial of Conspiracies

Originally posted by SpeachM1litant
Great thread, really well though out and for it's short length it was very intellectually simulating. However I do think that you are "beating a dead horse" in the sense that no matter what we say, people won't change there minds about the tought questions which are posed as a threat to any official story. These same people would still brandish this thread as either a conspiracy theory or a bunch of words written by a traitor. - That's just my cynical 2 cents.

They very well might, but I won't be guilty of not trying, and neither will many others.

Movements, genuine movements start with one, then just a couple of people who believe, and encourage others to do the same.

Much like the Macarena it's a dance, that becomes a wave, when people put thought and energy into it, and just like societies often change, because people are social and like to fit in, it just becomes about establish a different and better standard.

In our push button world of on demand instant gratification that seems impossible, but alas it takes time to create a master piece.

What would the sisteen chapel look like if Michael Angelo said no it can't be done?

Originally posted by TerryMcGuire
And then we come down to elections. And they give us "THE CHOICE". And we choose and in this expression of freedom, of our free will, we choose. And in choosing we become a defender of that choice because then we are defending ourselves.

I will repeat this. Mostly for myself because I have never realized this before.

When we choose, we choose who we are . Every choice we make defines us to ourselves. And it is the nature of the self, to defend itself, to seek continuance.

And the cycle just continues and continues and continues.
AND THIEY KNOW THIS. They have allowed this false either/or thing to go on because they understand the cycle and how consciousness is attuned to it.

Well I have voted since 1972, and you know what. I AM DONE WITH IT.

I can feel the shackles falling from my shoulders as I seek to defend myself.

I am 100% in agreement with the OP here, even though I find myself occasionally being suckered into the left/right argument on occasion, as old habits are hard to break. It's difficult sometimes trying to get someone to open their eyes. I guess it's not my job and I need to continue to move away from the temptation..

As for not voting, I have a what if (at the risk of jinxing the thread by dropping a politician's name here): What if someone like Ron Paul somehow got the nomination? If we are all on the same page here, I would think his name would be high on the list of candidates who are most like us philosophically. Republican in registration only. Would it not be prudent to make an attempt to straighten out the mess we're in with diplomacy and peaceful means and VOTE? It's at least worth the try. I believe we are at a very obvious crossroads that could lead to dire consequences if the country doesn't choose wisely. I don't want to see bloodshed or watch our economy collapse into chaos, so if someone doesn't grab the tiller, I am afraid we'll be living in even more interesting times than we are now.

Sorry to be a downer, but I think everyone needs to be engaged, now more than ever.

Cheers!

Then I guess i should re-evaluate part of my statement. Change is the catalyst for the discussion, rather than the discussion a catalyst for change.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


And there is people who get born into this bs and don't know how to think. It's not only our fault what we have today, the Gov formed us they said we had to listen and we did now we are screwed with debt, they are still doing it as we speak.. Ofc..

I blame everyone who doesn't ask real questions

I blame everyone who just wanna sit on their bum and watch fantasy tv

I blame on pissed scared people who tend to hit and kick people who doesn't wanna take it any more of this bs

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

How can you believe that the government would not conspire against the people, when you obviously believe to the point of constant accusation that the other party you are not in, is constantly conspiring against your party and it’s leader?

Damn.. that is a brilliant point. Thanks.

reply to post by notonsamepage


I hear you friend, the schools and media do a great job at conditioning Americans towards acceptance and compliance, and not providing them with enough tools, skills, and real history and knowledge to effectively question.

The system is designed that way on purpose.

It's why it's up to each one of us to try to fill in the gaps and educate ourselves, and keep on learning everything we can.

Thanks for posting.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

How can you believe that the government would not conspire against the people, when you obviously believe to the point of constant accusation that the other party you are not in, is constantly conspiring against your party and it’s leader?

Damn.. that is a brilliant point. Thanks.

Your quite welcome friend, and some would say there is a very sound and profound logic involved in that question.

I think a lot of us get so wrapped up in the heat of the moment and debate that it gets easy to overlook and miss the obvious at the times.

Pointing that out as a seperate observation outside the heat of a debate might help a lot of people come to the realization.

Thanks for joining in.

reply to post by notonsamepage


I just blame myself for not being as loud as I should be about the things I believe.

reply to post by AwakeinNM


Ya know, I've been thinking about that post since I put it up. Reconsidering? Most of my life I have voted third party. Well, half. I've voted for Paul twice and others along the way.

Last night we watched "Brewsters Millions" an old movie where Richard Pryor plays a guy who runs a mayoral campaign whose slogan is "vote for none of the above." a joke certainly, but.

So I think I will vote but never again for the choice they offer. I will write- in only. Paul will never get the repub nomination and if he did it would only be because they wanted it to happen and then what good could he do.

What I'd like to see is a third party called "The Write-in Party." as far as I know, we still have the right to write in any one we want. Let the demopubs run who ever they want who cares. Let's bypass the whole thing of regulations other than constitutional requirements and fling the doors wide open. Let's let everybody run on The Write-in Party ticket. Let's have a slug fest.

We' need ballot counters to read all the names written in. Man what a fiasco that would be if we all wrote in our votes. There's enough of us. "Vote Outside the Boxes. Right In your Vote"

It's way past my bed time. My wife is asleep and I'm on my iPad. I'm despretly grasping at straws here but you know what they say? Desperate times call for desperate measures.

I'll vote write in.

Only [.

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow


I have been loud since day one, because of it I lost all my friends and the respect of others, only thing they wanna do is to talk # and watch trash tv.

Now I'm alone shouting like idiot waiting for something so big that it will change everyone, but how when where?

And yeah great thread traveler.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


You're starting to make me believe in psychics as you've read my mind again!

Seriously though... well said!

reply to post by TerryMcGuire


Trust me I completely understand the sentiment, the same for the "I just won't/don't vote" folks, the only problem that I see with such a thing, even if it was a huge movement, is that the elections are really decided by the electoral college.

I am sure if there was just a vast majority that went with the "None of the above" candidate and they still voted in their chosen Republicrat or Demopub, it would be the catalyst for revolution if only people would step out of their own individual comfort zones. I just fear that the masses even under that scenario would still have their priorities out of whack, "March on the capitol? Tonight, right now? But Glee's supposed to be a good one tonight."

They have eroded away our education system, poisoned the food, flouridated the water, and bombarded us with so much TV "Programs" that the majority just don't have the ability to think anymore.

Great Thread,as always PT! S&F for you! I now tend to avoid any political debates.Voting is meaningless and when anyone of us point this out people begin to ridicule you.I like the idea that Leo came up with a think-tank it could work.The paradox we find ourselves in is derived from the sports-fan mentality and the fact that we have a culture where refusing to admit you are wrong is frowned upon.This has to stop because it limits self knowledge which to me is a great crime.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


So very true, as usual a well thought out and presented thread,
of course they are all in the samae boat together and only masquerade their differences in front olf us the people.
The fact that George Bush Senior personally groomed Bill Clinton for presidency seems to fly over most ppls heads. Their relationship was about as sordid as it gets in politics and they both represented different parties.

PEACE,
RK

Never ever waste your vote. I'm not sure about US politics but in the UK every spoilt paper is counted and announced along with the votes cast for each candidiate.

So imagine the fallout if the majority of votes cast were "none of the above" ie spoilt.

So if you disagree with all the choices choose none but make sure it is counted. It will not be counted if you stay at home.

If you really want to make splash write on the ballot paper "NONE OF THE ABOVE" because if every spoilt paper had that written on it you can be guranteed the press would find out. With so many spoilt papers there will be an investigation as to why they are spoilt at which point they would uncover the message........

How could any politician stand up and say "the people have voted for me" in that situation without the press panning them!

Late to the thread, but I'm going to post what I wrote for a thread of mine today, which more addresses a few of the consequences of these patterns and habits we've fallen into, as you've described them, Proto. This relates to ATS directly, but is really universal, and, at this point, somewhat of a skipping record to many of us who don't toe that line.

See, I think a huge part of the problem is that people who toe the line don't know what to do with those of use who don't. They try to throw labels and names at us, but they don't stick. They honestly probably don't know where we're coming from. It frustrates them. And so they look for new things to label us with, and conspiracy theorist happens to be one of them. One of the kinder ones, at that (liar, fake, disinfo agent also come to mind).

Anyway, here are my thoughts on some of the effects and maybe the start of a solution. Ha.


Partisanship and the bickering it breeds is killing us. It makes us lose focus of the real priorities and issues as it derails countless discussions and take our eyes off what the real problems and their root causes are. It prevents compromise and solutions. We're arguing with each other and stalling progress as this country crumbles.

Not picking on anyone in particular, because this kind of thing is all over the board and all over the web and other media, and all over the world. People are making big bucks making it their careers too.

But do you realize how much more powerful a message you can send just by couching things in a more generic way? How much more attention and focus you could get? Words and tone matter. For example, think about thread titles.

Compare This: Barrack Obama Demands .."Believe What We Tell You"

To This: Our Conspiring Government Demands, "Believe What We Tell You"

or

Compare This: GOP cuts food stamp funding as unemployment soars

ToThis:Congress cuts food stamp funding as unemployment soars

How many more people would come to your thread if the title doesn't automatically turn at least half of them off?

Sure, one way gets you the attention of those who will come to fight with you on the same level, but is that what you really want? And it also attracts those who already think the way you do. That's kind of boring, no?

How many more would sit up and take notice and make connections and retain continuity of the issues and see what's happening instead of being trapped in this endless, spiraling vortex of partisan bickering and insults.

How many more people would contribute to the discussion of the issue?

Seriously, this kind of thing dilutes both the message and the seriousness of what is happening and is effectively paralyzing we the people—as intended by nefarious forces. They love us divided and feuding among ourselves as they merrily do whatever the hell they please.

STOP helping them divide us!

I issued a challenge to ATS in my thread, but almost nobody came And I think I know why.

Why not start a political party called NOTA ie None Of The Above. Spread word......required funding - zero

Id start a seperate thread on this matter but I have not yet made 20 posts.
Democracy is not democracy. In otherwords you dont have a choice, your told you have a choice but you dont, if the choice is between coke and pepsi, as I believe Ventura recently pointed out, then you have no "real" choice at all.
In hypnosis this method of tricking people into accepting a suggestion or command is known as "a double bind".
example...If you want someone to have lunch with you, you may as them this
"Are you free for lunch tomorrow?" this statement however gives the subject a "real choice" and they can say yes or no.
However in a double bind, you dont want the subject to make a choice, but you cant be seen to force them into bending to your will, so you trick them into thinking they made a decision by giving them two choices with the same outcome, for example.
"Are you free for lunch tomorrow at 12 at the italian resteraunt, or we can make it 1 instead at the chinese place, the choice is yours"....
In this senario your more likley to get the subject to take option A or B because there is a persieved choice in having two different options, but to you its all the same outcome, you get the date.
This is what western polotics is, its the same in the UK as in America. There is no fundimental difference in any of the political groups that get into power and its always a two horse race between coke and pepsi.
Most people dont bother voting due to this fact, most peole thankfully are not as stupid as the media would like us to believe, however even rationally minded people can get suckered into falling into line, as many rational people did in the aftermath 9/11 and supported ridiculous wars without any evidence to support invading the middle east. This is what happenes when peole are emotionally manipulated. the thing is all these tricks are used in hypnosis, not stage hypnosis but the hypnosis of everyday life, the stuff that they dont tell you about. The perception of brain washing and manturian candidates is exactly what TPTB want you to have when it comes to hypnosis, as in far fetched, but the reality is that we are all in a waking hypnosis all the time, right now. To wake up is not to leave the matrix but to see it for what it is and to see ourselves for what we are. I could go into this further and actually give some answers but I would need to start a new thread and cant do until I fullfill my 20 posts.

I love getting the remark "wearing the tin foil hat again?"

It makes me think that I am like Magneto

What the hell, may aswell carryon posting to this thread.
As I have only ever lived in western contries I cant speak for the rest of the world, but in the west, we are all in a waking hypnosis. The funny thing is even people in europe who are still under this condition can look over and laugh at how much deeper the hypnotic state is of most of the U.S. population, or atleast thats the perception as seen through the mass media shown here, mind you I did live in the U.S. for a time and yes they are far more under the anestetic than most people, but have no doubt we are all in a waking trance.
I already mentioned the double bind method of mass hypnosis but there are so many other tricks also being used...The main thing you need to know about hypnosis is that the human mind is made up of two basic parts. Logic and emotion. The scary thing is that emotion will override logic every time. Hypnosis speaks directly to the emotional mind, thats why people find themselves in debt, in and out of relationships that dont work and generally unsatisfied with life. this is because we do not act rationally for most of the time, even though we think we do. Take a look at the housing crash for example, now consider how big that crash is, now think how rational was it for banks to loan mortgages that were many, many multiple the times what the borrowers would ever be able to pay back and how rational was it for people who worked as waitresses was it to accept such loans? The point is none of this mess was rational, it was all emotional, just like making a house smell of freshly backed bread as a trick to help sell the house, which actually workes repeatedly or had done back when people were buying them...this is hypnosis. its everywhere, everyday, and if you think your not in a trance state, then think about the choices you make every second. Why you choose to dress a sertain way? Why you even like a particular type of music over other types? Why do you feel passionaley over particular issues and may even argue or be willing to fight for them? Etc, etc, etc, When you start to deconstruct who you are, you will realise your not who you think you are. The personality also known as the ego is an imaginary construct. You created it in response to your enviroment and more importantly in response to what you were taught, the ideals given to you and the names you were called, the compliments the insults and your own name, one chosen by your parents and not you, but a word that much of your persona has been built around, john, mike, jim, osama, george, Barak etc etc. Once you strip all the layers away you get to the other side of who you really are, or in buddhism your original face.
This is what I believe is the true message that christianity really was teaching also, but the message has been so muddied and hijacked that it lost its real meaning years ago.
Once you see your original face, you realise that all the differences between you and me are an illusion and that the barrier that seperates mankind is ego. Remember even if you believe in heven, the bible states that your soul is not your personality, its something seperate, your sould is something pure so it cant pooissible be your personality with all its shortcomings and flaws. think about it would you want to share heven with even the best people, because even the best people have flaws and according to religion heven is perfect, so that means no egos can get in. that means that we are all closer to each other than we think we are, including to our brothers and sisters in the arab world, china, africa ect. We all laugh and cry and bleed. The people at the top of the pyramid want us to go deeper and deeper into trance and bury or true faces under thicker and thicker layers of ego, they do this all the time by playing on our emotions and giving us endless choices for things we dont need, like a billion brands of crap and gadgets that are not freeing us or making us any happier. And the biggest trap of all, the social network phenominom, where ego is now a fully fledged cult and if im right will lead to even more division and isolation, loliness and bipolar disorders, which Im sure it is doing already. Once you concentrate on how different you are from your brother, you isolate yourself from him. Once your isolated your alot easier to control. That is what governments do to control you. So wake up and look at your true face and youw ill find its no different from mine and if we all tried this we would all wake up and there might be a chance for humanity then.