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The Paradox of the Left/Right Political Divide and the Denial of Conspiracies

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posted on May, 5 2011 @ 11:44 AM
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Here we are again in America faced with another major event with the government’s reported death of Osama Bin Laden, reported in such a way that has left many of us, some would say too many of us, with more questions than there are answers for.

In recent years what was a small, but steadily growing portion of Americans now labeled routinely as conspiracy theorists has swelled in ranks to the point that now when such events are announced by the Government, often in the very same announcement the Government spokesman takes proactive measures to label anyone who might doubt the official story or have questions the Government prefers not to answer as Conspiracy Theorists.

The inference is obvious, Conspiracy Theorists are simply contrary to be contrary, and they, their questions, and observations should not be taken seriously.

Words like tin-foil hat, paranoid, anti-government, anti-Semite, Islamic sympathizer and others are often bandied about to describe those falling under the ever widening umbrella of conspiracy theorists.

Invariably as the debates on the internet, in the coffee shops, on the busses and trains, and office water coolers ensue the typical refrain by those who believe the official story verbatim is “Not everything is a conspiracy you know.”

However more often than not it’s when partisan politics begin to enter the fray that it starts becoming impossible for Americans to ask quality questions and have a quality discussion.

It is to partisan politics I now want to speak and the paradox, the fallacy that they breed in their tireless debates about the government would never conspire against the people. Not this government under this president and this party.

Immediately the accusations begin to fly, you must be in the ‘other’ party, that ‘lost’ the last election.

You must not like the President as they insert a host of imaginary reasons, from their accent to their zebra skin neck tie, to everything in between that have absolutely nothing to do with the issue and event being questioned.

As they begin to answer questions then with other questions, questions about why you are asking questions in the first place, this inevitably leads to the absolute statement…

You know darn well no amount of proof or quality of answers would satisfy you.

The inference is you are simply on a witch hunt, you are on a witch hunt because you don’t like the politician at the helm, and that’s because you belong to the other party, the other party that is presumed to be constantly conspiring against the party of the president in power.

Conspiring to defeat the Presidents agenda, conspiring to sully his reputation, conspiring to regain power, and believed to be willing to stop at next to nothing in such a conspiracy to such an end, and as such, your reluctance to believe the government’s official story, is now all about a conspiracy not to.

A partisan conspiracy not to!

Both parties are the same, and both parties use the same tactics when it comes to deflecting away from the hard questions many concerned Americans have to ask, and excusing why they have no quality answers for those questions in the process.

Such people are in fact now conspiring to that end now, to excuse a lack of quality information, to dismiss inconsistencies and holes in the official story, to slander anyone who wants to ask.

But here is the rub.

These are all people who don’t believe that the Government would ever conspire to deceive the people, even though they are all people who believe that at least one of the two parties that make up government would conspire against the other, at the expense of the American people.

So here is my question for those of you who love to play the partisan divisive card of left/right politics.

How can you believe that the government would not conspire against the people, when you obviously believe to the point of constant accusation that the other party you are not in, is constantly conspiring against your party and it’s leader?

I call that a Paradox, and while many people who think this way and employ these tactics will routinely say not everything is a conspiracy, how come you always say not believing or questioning the official story is a conspiracy hatched by the other party?

Is America really well served by the people questioning one another on motives when it comes to real questions regarding real events that the government has failed to deliver enough quality information to satisfy a growing number of independent and critical minds?

I don’t think it is, and it’s that horrible division within America and the rancor it breeds, and the chaos it creates within the masses that makes it so easy for the government to in fact conspire against the American people in the vacuum these enmity filled debates create.

Question the official story of the Republicans you are a traitor, question the official story of the Democrats you are a Conspiracy theorist.

To bad people who have questions can’t just be Americans who have questions.

The nation is doomed if we can’t get our out of control, heavily in debt government embroiled in a half dozen declared and undeclared wars under control and accountable to the people.

The sad thing is that it’s not the Government preventing that, it’s ourselves as we conspire for the sake of a leader or a party and allegiance to it, to thwart our fellow Americans in their attempts to get quality answers and hold the government accountable.

Americans need to rethink the left/right divide, the word games, the labels and the stereo types, and start dealing with the real issues, and we need to do it before it’s too late.

Trust me Republicans and Democrats if you really believe the other party is conspiring against yours all the time, there is absolutely no reason either party once in power, wouldn’t conspire against the American people too.




posted on May, 5 2011 @ 12:07 PM
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And then we come down to elections. And they give us "THE CHOICE". And we choose and in this expression of freedom, of our free will, we choose. And in choosing we become a defender of that choice because then we are defending ourselves.

I will repeat this. Mostly for myself because I have never realized this before.

When we choose, we choose who we are . Every choice we make defines us to ourselves. And it is the nature of the self, to defend itself, to seek continuance.

And the cycle just continues and continues and continues.
AND THIEY KNOW THIS. They have allowed this false either/or thing to go on because they understand the cycle and how consciousness is attuned to it.

Well I have voted since 1972, and you know what. I AM DONE WITH IT.

I can feel the shackles falling from my shoulders as I seek to defend myself.



posted on May, 5 2011 @ 12:17 PM
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reply to post by TerryMcGuire
 


I sure can appreciate how you feel.

Politics for many Americans is really no different than the NBA, or NFL, as long as their team is dominating the board they are happy.

They will make excuses for it's failures, often by assigning the blame in the form of a conspiracy by the 'other' party, and even dance in the streets to celebrate it's successes, and gloat too.

Our politicians might as well be gladiators in a Roman Colleseum the way too many Americans view and participate in the process.

Thanks for posting.


+4 more 
posted on May, 5 2011 @ 01:02 PM
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Star n Flag
So true
It's becoming almost impossible to have a debate at times

It's funny, I tend to agree with the liberals when a republican is in power and I agree with conservatives when a Dem is in power.

But while their party is in power they often have no dissenting voice.
While Obama was having a speech at a convention with his supporters some got up and sang a song to free Bradley Manning, this was at Obama's own convention where his supporters paid thousands of dollars to attend.

However..... they said themselves whether Obama frees Mr. Manning or not and stop torturing him or not they will still vote Obama in 2012.
What can this country do when even the dissenting voice within the active party will continue to support them?

There was a time when only conspiracy theorists were labeled as conspiracy theorists, now every form of skeptics are called this now, the word has truly evovled, or de-evolved if you will, into meaning anyone that is even slightly skeptical about an official story.
Surely mobsters and mass murderers wouldn't lie to us right? Of course not, to believe so is insanity.

Now if you follow Canadian politics the same paradox is being exported over there, Canada right now is truly being americanized with this same paradox.

The U.S. has never been as divided as it is now and that should be a major concern but it is not.



posted on May, 5 2011 @ 01:11 PM
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reply to post by ModernAcademia
 


Excellent thoughts my friend, it used to be Americans prided themselves on dissent, it was the American thing to do, to question, to challenge, even make demands.

No more, now you are either being unpatriotic or a conspiracy theorists.

No attempt is made to address your questions or concerns, instead they are met by slapping a label on you and dismissing you in a deragatory and denigrating fashion.

Sadly Americans have come to cheer this. Wow they told him, they shut that guy up, that's the way to deal with people who aren't 'with us', and therefore must be 'against' us.

A house so divided simply can not stand.

In many ways we are in a verbal civil war where the weapons are words and slanders, scorn and accusation against one another, and while we play that out in the trenches the politicians basically act with no oversight, no transparency, no accountability and in increasingly dictatorial ways.

While the politicians themselves incite a lot of the rhetoric and provide a lot of the talking points their supporters then parrot, often with no real understanding of what they are parroting, it is us average citizens who carry it to the divisive extreme that we do.

Thanks for sharing.



posted on May, 5 2011 @ 01:25 PM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


Well, to be fair to Government, they tend to be naive and expect people to trust them.

They also expect people to simply do thorough research to understand the complicated issues.

They also expect people to simply ignore the host, or hoardes, of lacking intellectual information.

I am speaking of course of American Idol, Big Brother, and Survivor.

And any other selected non-news type shows, radio broadcasts, or types of information.

They expect us to watch C-Span, MSNBC, or C.N.N. and just take those for their face value.

Little do they realize the short attention span of American citizens or perhaps instead they know.

Dry, boring, and often redacted or censured materials, or even sterilized information.

Which tells us nothing unless you have the patience to piece together all of the puzzle pieces.

That rise in the community of "conspiracy theorists" is nothing more than growing curiosity.

Tin-foil hat?

I wear none.

Paranoia?

I have none.

Anti-Government?

I am anti-corruption within Government.

Anti-Semite?

No, I hate no one, except liars, cheats, and thieves.

Islamic sympathizer?

No, I support human beings, no matter their religion in not being pushed around by bullies.

That is quite simple though as to why I stand for those things.

I am a bully-buster and I teach others how to bring down bullies without becoming one themselves.

Both sides of the political aisle, Republican's and Democrat's, tend to be bullies, politically.

They see their side as the right side and everyone else as the wrong side.

This is why I do not subscribe to either side but stick to my side as a registered Independent.

Neither will I join the Tea Party either, another huge mistake, infiltrated from stage one.

And far, far too many of those self-proclaimed "conspiracy theorists" want violent revolution.

Which is why I tend to not associate with them either due to their activities being watched.

It is high time that we as a community grow the Hell up and become something much more powerful.

Something more than a mere attraction for hate-mongers, fear-mongers, or ignorance-mongers.

It is high time we become a political force for good through forming a non-profit and think-tank.

Or else it will be too late far too soon and we will be nothing more than a memory.

Another catchphrase like "Wikileaks", another mistake, another lunatic fringe, like Julian Assange.

We cannot condone negative and illegal actions or we will get nothing but negativity and death.

Our Government, any Government for that matter, can point to that as a reason for funding.

As well manpower through bodies which will gladly beat in the heads of those protesting with batons.

Political and combined, unified power, this is the only way we will get anything resolved.
edit on 5/5/11 by SpartanKingLeonidas because: Adding Depth and Insight Into the Post.



posted on May, 5 2011 @ 01:32 PM
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reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
 


They have more ways to divide the populace and confuse it than you can shake a stick at, that's for sure my friend.

I agree it's going to take people coming together on the same page to turn the tide and rescue the nation from the widening abyss, but I am not sure how that can happen with the quality of people in leadership positions and the corruption that runs rampant through the system.

I fear the only way we will ever be one at this stage, is our mass incorporation into a thought and speech controlled police state and sadly it is going that way.

I don't really see any difference in policies between Bush and Obama, but I do see how some people will support Obama doing something that they would criticize Bush for, and people who criticize things Obama does that they would have supported Bush in doing.

So I fear it's really just become about personality cults and hero worship and little more, opening the door to who ever is in power just following the corporate mandate and wishlist that the entities who control the infrastructure, banking, oil and food supply want followed.

As long as they have a popular leader who's personality is the key factor, they can more or less force anything on the population and proven over and over that they can and will.

Step number one towards a solution is identifying the problem though.

Thanks for joining in my friend.



posted on May, 5 2011 @ 01:35 PM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


Thanks, Proto, well said and well written!

And I can only agree. The situation seems to be getting worse and worse. I am at a loss to explain it... I can only think it must be increased propaganda of both the explicit type you describe in concert with more subtle forms (or not so subtle) constantly served up by the various media most listen to, media designed to pacify and promote an unhealthy desire to let others do their thinking for them.

I can't say for sure that's the cause as I don't watch TV or listen to non-music radio, but I am nevertheless compelled to think that such is the case.

I have been noticing that disturbing posts on my Facebook wall relating to partisan politics appear more frequently... they will post a most enlightened viewpoint, and then turn right around and post something that takes my breath away - and not in a good way! I guess I don't really know these people nearly as well as I thought.

What I find disturbing on a more underlying and foundational level is how amazingly few people realize that in the bright light of day that there really is no left and right to be upset with, that it is all a single morass of rather wealthy thugs all fighting against us for power and control, all for the benefit of themselves and more importantly their masters. Can they not see that it is like buying a car at the Mercury dealer instead of at the Ford dealer? It's the same car.

It scares me. It makes me want to leave!


Originally posted by TerryMcGuire
[...]
When we choose, we choose who we are . Every choice we make defines us to ourselves. And it is the nature of the self, to defend itself, to seek continuance.
[...]
Well I have voted since 1972, and you know what. I AM DONE WITH IT.

I can feel the shackles falling from my shoulders as I seek to defend myself.


Excellent insight, Terry!

I too am, as of last November, done with it.

I will no longer participate in the charade.

Various folks have been telling me that more and more people are "waking up." I guess this is true or the PTB wouldn't be so inclined to malign us so vigorously. Our numbers must scare them, but there are still a lot more folk than we who are seemingly inextricably locked into the false mindset and concept of "how it works" - and the intense emotions therein as duly described in the OP.
God help us all.

Peace,
Pixel



posted on May, 5 2011 @ 01:35 PM
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What really bothers me about this is that we cannot have the discussions that NEED to happen. It seems that, instead of searching for the truth, there are (usually 2) groups of people who are looking to convince others their position is right.

I still don't have a firm position on the OBL killing and when I ask questions, I get labeled, just on the basis of my questions. What I want is the truth, which I am not naive enough to think we'll ever have in full, but what I get are rumors, assumptions, suspicions and mis-quoting... It becomes more confusing than it needs to be!

I don't believe everything is a conspiracy, but I KNOW our government isn't always honest with us (duh) and that there are legitimate conspiracies within our government, but I can't just believe it without a little evidence!

We shouldn't be divided here on ATS. We should be talking about what has been said and by whom. But instead, when I bring questions up, people just accuse me of loving Obama or trusting everything the gov't says.
Can we not ask a simple question or ask for a source without being labeled and tossed into one "camp" or the other???

Bah! Sorry - frustration shows.



posted on May, 5 2011 @ 01:39 PM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


"The problem"?

It is not easily identifiable.

At least not on the surface.

However, "the problem", as I see it, is a lack of self-leadership.

People cannot and will not lead themselves.

They would rather not step up into the podium due to a lack of courage.

They would rather not step up into the podium due to a lack of morals.

They would rather not step up into the podium due to a lack of ethics.

So few, too few in fact, could stand toe-to-toe with the corruption, and not be bought.

I am the only person I can speak of in this regard due to my own experiences.

"The problem" is people tend to want someone to follow instead of leading themselves and others.



posted on May, 5 2011 @ 01:47 PM
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reply to post by TerryMcGuire
 


What you're speaking of is the false dichotomy of two choices.

You're either good or evil.

You're either Christian or Muslim.

You're either Republican or Democrat.

For far too long two choices were given.

And for far too long, much too long, people have bought this hook, line, and sinker.

People tend to tell me I have two choices and I tell them differently.

I always tend to make the choice that upsets their delicate balance of lies.



posted on May, 5 2011 @ 01:51 PM
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reply to post by PixelDuster
 


Great post and I don't think there is any escaping that media manipulation plays a huge part. One station is conservative, the next is liberal, the next is independent middle of the road, and they tend to create the talking points on subjects and issues most Americans then focus their conversations on or around.

When they do any serious questioning it's about the over all motives, honesty, integrity or morality of one politician or one party, rarely if ever the government itself.

Still at the end of the day most of them run the same official stories up the flag pole and salute, with some ready made label to attach to people who don't.

It really is a form of mass programming that starts with the government then extends to the media, and then on to our own cliques within society.

It's not a very open minded process, and not even a happy one, as the government, then the media and then the individual tends to sell everything with either anger or fear.

I know what you mean about some people where you think wow, they get it, and then when a big event comes along their perception and take on it, really makes you scratch your head and say oh no, they fell right back into the trap and the box.

We need better education and a truly independent non-biased media, how we are going to get it?



Thanks for joining in.



posted on May, 5 2011 @ 01:57 PM
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reply to post by ModernAcademia
 


That is the problem though in society.

They do not realize we are divided.

Whether we're addressing the concerns of America or any other nation for that matter.

A division, the recognition of such, would mean there was unity to begin with.

The last time unity was tried outside of Government control men were killed.

Whether I refer to John F. Kennedy or Martin Luther King Jr. the role is the same.

Government does not want unity unless it is under their thumb and controlled.

This is the main push for the alleged War on Terror is to keep people divided.

Citizen verses terrorists.

Citizens verses unlawful combatants.

Citizens verses citizens who do not know their rights.



posted on May, 5 2011 @ 02:00 PM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


It seems to me that these groups try to coerce and recruit more members than the opposing group or groups. They seem to be seeking a unified consensus on their particular processes and patterns. To actually disseminate their own modality far and wide while shamelessly or unknowingly imposing on every ones individual sovereignty.

We find that each group has its own ambiance or familiarized traits that we can readily associate with them. We also find that there is a commonality among them as well. They all seem to have a plan at the ready to bring about a brighter future for everyone and they all seem to have solutions to our perceived problems that we are told we are plagued with. All of them blame these current problems as being the fault of the other groups.

The systems that make up their principals and rules are enforced throughout their campaigns. The decisive use of these disciplines are calculative and their ambition and determination is clearly distinguishable between the groups. We find suddenly that the seemingly limited groups are not afforded the privilege of having the same resources at their disposal as the more seemingly influential groups.

Even though the struggling group or groups may hold the very keys we are consciously or unconsciously wishing for and know deep down would be advantageous for all, we are forced into submission by a might makes right mentality that has been ingrained and enforced in us throughout our whole lives. This is undeniable and should be mulled over carefully by those who are now able to explore such avenues of thought.

So in the end we see that our votes or decisions are not really our own. They are controlled very precisely and carefully to give us the illusion of freedom to choose a group and cast our vote for. Which is meaningless drivel compared to the drive of the mighty in their conquest. Your vote counts!



posted on May, 5 2011 @ 02:08 PM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


I feel for you BH, you are probably one of the most reasoned and open minded people on the board, and I sure see myself how you have to struggle at times to not get labelled and cast into a camp.

A lot of discussions to end up as just heavily polarized affairs, where labels, insults, starring and anti-starring, all are just mindless things, where the quality of debate just gets lost in a grudge match, between opposing camps.

Come in smack in the middle and begin to lean one way or the other, and that label will get slapped on you quicker than you can say boo.

Stay in the middle, and often some one will go hunting down your past posting history and define what camp they feel you should be in.

No matter how they have to misconstrue or paraphrase to do it.

It does get increasingly hard, and I know I am guilty of it myself sometimes on highly polarized topics.

I think we all could probably benefit from putting more effort into trying to stay objective and fair towards one another.

Great post.



Thanks for sharing.



posted on May, 5 2011 @ 02:10 PM
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reply to post by PixelDuster
 


I cannot concur with stopping voting.

Voting is not the end of our responsibility as citizens.

It is just the beginning after being informed.

If you find the two sides of the same coin detestable do something different.

Register as an Independent and vote your conscious.

But to cease voting is mere folly and leaving your voice unheard.

Get more involved in your community too.

These are the things which will turn the tide.



posted on May, 5 2011 @ 02:17 PM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


This happens everywhere whether we're speaking of ATS or offline.

It is the sign of a non-intelligent person who does not think but flocks.

They flock to their friends side of things, they flock to ignorance instead of intelligence, they flock to other sheep instead of shepherds. I've been personally fighting this type of ignorance of others all of my life. You will rarely if ever find people who can have civilized discussions unless you dig to find truly intelligent people. Too many people tend to deflect instead of understand other people's positions in life. They tend to lash out instead of discuss things in a civilized manner.

Whether we see eye to eye we as a society need to understand other people.

Or else we are not only ignorant ourselves we are the problem and not the solution.

If you are not a part of the solution, you are a part of the problem, you are in fact the problem.

Too many people forget that they fight for their position and create animosity.

Labels and viewpoints are far too often the leading problems verses actual problems.



posted on May, 5 2011 @ 02:25 PM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
 


They have more ways to divide the populace and confuse it than you can shake a stick at, that's for sure my friend.

I agree it's going to take people coming together on the same page to turn the tide and rescue the nation from the widening abyss, but I am not sure how that can happen with the quality of people in leadership positions and the corruption that runs rampant through the system.

I fear the only way we will ever be one at this stage, is our mass incorporation into a thought and speech controlled police state and sadly it is going that way.

I don't really see any difference in policies between Bush and Obama, but I do see how some people will support Obama doing something that they would criticize Bush for, and people who criticize things Obama does that they would have supported Bush in doing.

So I fear it's really just become about personality cults and hero worship and little more, opening the door to who ever is in power just following the corporate mandate and wishlist that the entities who control the infrastructure, banking, oil and food supply want followed.

As long as they have a popular leader who's personality is the key factor, they can more or less force anything on the population and proven over and over that they can and will.

Step number one towards a solution is identifying the problem though.

Thanks for joining in my friend.



Imo, part of the problem is that in the run up to an election, the people are presented with political arguments. The problem with that is that TPTB are masters at using a lot of words to say nothing specific, and also that experience shows that they lie and spin and lie and spin in these electoral run ups. We also know that they don't answer questions fully or directly. Basically, people are asked to make a political decision, when in fact they can't based on the disinfo provided to them. So in the end, by default, people fall back on personalities and facile comparisons of the false dichotomy.

My thinking is that people should take a different 'marker' for selecting their candidates. For example, 'integrity' and 'transparency'would be relevant and topical issues to explore and use as a gauge for assessing potential candidates. It's time the game was changed, and the people DO have the power to do that.

It's time the people started making DEMANDS of their candidates, irrespective of political dichotomies, and start voicing and asserting what they WANT instead of only passively accepting the crumbs thrown to them as options by those in power.



posted on May, 5 2011 @ 02:25 PM
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reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
 


Thanks, SpartanKingLeonidas.

I understand your message and yet I am torn.

I may well follow your suggestion, however it is my feeling that my voice somehow doesn't relate to the result. Not sure that we the people actually do any electing, except maybe locally... are they not chosen beforehand by the elite?

I hope this is not derailing, I'd hate myself.

Last time I visited a voting booth, there was nowhere to enter a write-in... only the two unseemly choices were available on that digital abomination.

But getting involved in the community... now that's a good thing!

Perhaps I could help educate those who need it... those who think there's only this way or that.

Peace,
Pixel



posted on May, 5 2011 @ 02:30 PM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


I think that these are really big problems that you are discussing about. but you are not talking about any useful way to solve these problems. It won't work when you say " Americans need to rethink the left/right divide, the word games, the labels and the stereo types, and start dealing with the real issues, and we need to do it before it’s too late. "

you should find an applicable way to make people think. call me if you find out.

IMHO : people like to live as simply as they can. they like to trust in some one from the beginning till the end. they think of no review. some times they don't even want to think. there is no way to wake some one pretending to sleeping.

PS : I have tried to contact you by U2U. please answer my questions. your friend.





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