I was a skeptic . Now I'm a believer

Originally posted by subby
Conversely, I used to be a confirmed believer and subsequent investigation has changed me to a suspicious skeptic.
There are a lot of hoaxers and deluded people that can be very convincing. So how do we sort the falsehoods from the truths? Evidence, of course, which is what you are declining to provide.

Concerning many aspects of the ufology, I agree with you. Most alien crap is a smokescreen. I don't rule out (ancient) visits, but those more on an incidental scale. Most sightings are earthly of origin. On one side the TPTB in the form of the USA and Russian with their co-operations and on the other side the Germans. Not those in occupied Germany. If you want to know more about these "Nazi UFOs", just search the forum or the web. I've been researching them for quite a while and found lots of (in)direct confirmation, even here on ATS. They play, though largely ignored, a key role in the conspiracies concerning TPTB, judgment day, Niburu, etc, etc...

Originally posted by subby
Conversely, I used to be a confirmed believer and subsequent investigation has changed me to a suspicious skeptic.
There are a lot of hoaxers and deluded people that can be very convincing. So how do we sort the falsehoods from the truths? Evidence, of course...

I find myself in the same place, following a similar road to get here. It was a gradual process. The more and more I researched, the less and less sure I was. There is no pivot point or border making my time as a believer and where I am now, convinced that we are not being visited. I do sincerely believe that we are not alone and hope we are one day visited. And I do have the hope that in my lifetime we'll see a landing, a signal, something, definitive proof we are not alone.

i've seen a on 2 occassions things that i cant explain in the sky. to this day im still not sure if it was extraterrestrial or man made, but once thing i am sure of is that, it moved unlike any aircraft i have ever seen.

Originally posted by Soylent Green Is People
reply to post by skem64

 

When it comes to trying to identify strange lights in the sky, I don't think there is anything wrong with saying "I don't know what those lights are" rather than jumping to the conclusion that "Those lights are ET craft".

Do you actually believe that all UFO sightings are just lights on the sky? Or (more probable), you just have not read of the much more convincing cases?

How do you dismiss multiple-witness accounts, when several people independently describe a solid object, lacking standard propulsion and airfoils, relatively close to them, moving in incredible ways? How do you dismiss the many radar-visual cases, where that same thing is corroborated by radar?

Despite what many on here seem to think, it is possible to be a 'skeptic', and still believe that some small percentage of UFO sightings actually are likely to involve extra-terrestrial technology. There are many reasonable people around, credulity still intact, who have no particular belief or interest in Roswell, abductions, contactees, crop circles, mutilations, etc., and yet who still believe that the weight of the evidence points towards the Earth being visited by, at a minimum, Von Neuman probes from other civilizations. I wish people would drop all the exopolitics/reptilian crap and take a more reasonable approach to all of this. There really is a quite cozy middle ground, where all arguments can, in fact, be backed by reasonably strong evidence.

Originally posted by skem64
reply to post by Version100

 

Hi Version....I was quite glued to his every word actually and watched it with "fascination". That's not to say I believed him out of hand, in fact I'm still on the fence (a bit). But what does bring some credibility to it all is the fact he was a prodigy and did build a rocket when he was only 11yrs old. And when he met Stephen Hawking and confessed his mathematical formulars came to him in dreams, Hawking told him that he too received his formulars by way of dreams.
My point being.....if all that is true, then why not the rest of his stuff?

But all that said I can't help wondering why the US has not already ruled the world. I mean all that was many years ago, surely they (the US) has had enough time to recreate this super rocket engine and cancel out the need for fossil fuels. And when we consider the invasion of Iraq and Afganistan and the pipe line from the Caspian Sea to the Mediterranean Sea...well, why would they (the US) do all that if they didn't need the oil?

As for the Alien "connection" I might add that Gary McKinnon (the guy who hacked in to the Pentagon), mentions something about a file he came across refering to "non-terestials"

David Adair never met Stephen Hawking.

A kid whom makes the local newspaper because he made a model
rocket does not, in any way, equate to all that crazy, deluded, stuff
he claims.

No serious researchers are interested in him because his story, like
so many others, is really childish and has ZERO evidence to back it.
(a newspaper story about him making a model rocket as a kid is not
evidence of any of his claims)

These stories have spread like wildfire only because of the internet
and, unfortunately, because so many foolish and uneducated people
think that an ability to google answers quickly makes them wise.

David Adair's story is literally incredible, meaning it has no credible
elements.

I sincerely hope that your critical thinking skills will win in the end
and you will see how utterly stupid his story is.

UFOs could be anything, aliens, natural phenomena, religious
manifestation, glitches in a programmed reality... Anything.

But guys like David Adair are nothing more than static that makes
it even harder to actually find the true answers.

Originally posted by Version100

Originally posted by skem64
reply to post by Version100

 

Hi Version....I was quite glued to his every word actually and watched it with "fascination". That's not to say I believed him out of hand, in fact I'm still on the fence (a bit). But what does bring some credibility to it all is the fact he was a prodigy and did build a rocket when he was only 11yrs old. And when he met Stephen Hawking and confessed his mathematical formulars came to him in dreams, Hawking told him that he too received his formulars by way of dreams.
My point being.....if all that is true, then why not the rest of his stuff?

But all that said I can't help wondering why the US has not already ruled the world. I mean all that was many years ago, surely they (the US) has had enough time to recreate this super rocket engine and cancel out the need for fossil fuels. And when we consider the invasion of Iraq and Afganistan and the pipe line from the Caspian Sea to the Mediterranean Sea...well, why would they (the US) do all that if they didn't need the oil?

As for the Alien "connection" I might add that Gary McKinnon (the guy who hacked in to the Pentagon), mentions something about a file he came across refering to "non-terestials"

David Adair never met Stephen Hawking.

A kid whom makes the local newspaper because he made a model
rocket does not, in any way, equate to all that crazy, deluded, stuff
he claims.

No serious researchers are interested in him because his story, like
so many others, is really childish and has ZERO evidence to back it.
(a newspaper story about him making a model rocket as a kid is not
evidence of any of his claims)

These stories have spread like wildfire only because of the internet
and, unfortunately, because so many foolish and uneducated people
think that an ability to google answers quickly makes them wise.

David Adair's story is literally incredible, meaning it has no credible
elements.

I sincerely hope that your critical thinking skills will win in the end
and you will see how utterly stupid his story is.

UFOs could be anything, aliens, natural phenomena, religious
manifestation, glitches in a programmed reality... Anything.

But guys like David Adair are nothing more than static that makes
it even harder to actually find the true answers.

Thank you for clarifying. Star!! (do they still have that here? lol!)

Actually, this very "static" REALLY bears taking a critical "look" at. Much more than just an intelligent and interested look, but rather a brutal and cold medley that is as impartial as the weather with respect for "human interest"

I BEG the intelligent minds here within this forum to train your most precious commodity, your minds, with the type of skills YOU really deserve. I have the precise type of mind, with respect to my genuine overblown curiosity for this fascinating phenomena, that most members here have. The only difference is that the subject has come to mean so much to me, that I truly INSIST on, at very least attempting to educate myself to critical thinking guidelines that are indeed "alien" (forgive the pun, just had to!) to my normally excitable and driven human nature and mental processes. Don't ever take something for granted, no matter how much you WANT to believe. If you do, all truth is out the window because you have turned the very real science of Ufology into a religion. That's a HUGE mistake and ONLY serves to bring the whole thing down a notch.

No one likes a great UFO and other "secret" stuff read more than me. I could read John Lear's and David Adair's stuff all day because it's FUN and it makes me feel like I have a "secret insight" into realms beyond the imagination. The problem is that NONE of these people can substantiate ANYTHING they claim. Why?

The Human Mind is perhaps the greatest untapped commodity that we are presently aware of. It may in fact be responsible for the very reality that part of itself resides within. Who knows? The bottom line is that we all owe ourselves a debt of respect for just being here and for being precisely who we are. We can best begin to repay that debt by realizing that endless authors and spokes people can tell EXTREMELY fascinating and rich stories that they KNOW we desperately want to believe. The only difference comes down to whether they label what they write fiction or nonfiction. Reading as much a differentiation on the side of book binding is NOT an example of research or critical thinking.

Originally posted by MasterOfSparkz
Don't ever take something for granted, no matter how much you WANT to believe. If you do, all truth is out the window because you have turned the very real science of Ufology into a religion. That's a HUGE mistake and ONLY serves to bring the whole thing down a notch.

I believe what you said above, is absolutely what was at the heart of WingedBull's claim (as well as the claim on page one of this thread) that, the OP was never a skeptic in the first place. (or that they are not a TRUE believer now, either can be true).

To ignore science is a fundamental principle of dogma, and to ignore dogma is a fundamental principle of science. Neither of the 2 can exist in the same brainspace.

However, that said, a true believer is not one who WANTS to believe, it simply never entered their imagination that anything else could possibly be. Which is why 13 pages of angst over distinguishing skeptic versus believer ever began in my opinion.

Originally posted by WingedBull

Originally posted by skem64
Yes, but when those Lights move at incredible speed or hover without a sound, surely they have been manufactured by someone somewhere.

How would you know that?


I don't but then my post didn't say "I know.." .

Originally posted by skem64
And when these Lights interfere with fighter aircraft controls and missile launch capabilities, then it's not enough to shrug your shoulders and say," I don't know what those lights are"

And why not?

Human nature?

reply to post by Version100


I'm still on the fence....You say Adair never met Hawkins and you trash his credentials but when I google him it appears he was a consultant to NASA.



www.mail-archive.com...@listserv.aol.com/msg47994.html

Originally posted by skem64
reply to post by Version100

 

I'm still on the fence....You say Adair never met Hawkins and you trash his credentials but when I google him it appears he was a consultant to NASA.



www.mail-archive.com...@listserv.aol.com/msg47994.html

I have no idea what the broken link you put up is but David Adair
has no credentials and never worked for NASA.

What University did he attend and what degrees does he have ?

What position did he hold at NASA ?

If anything he says is true, why isn't he dead for talking about it ?

You need to ask the real questions before you believe these guys.

Originally posted by tpg65
Today has been an epithany. After years of sitting on the fence , I now believe 100% that we have been visited by Alien races since the dawn of man.
I also now believe that tptb in the U.S. have been back engineering captured spacecrafts for decades and that they already have lightspeed and sybmbiotic engine technology.

Now the sad part .
Disclosure will never come in our lifetime ( not unless our interstellar brothers , show themselves for all to see), because for disclosure to come from tptb , they will have to admit to decades of lies and cover ups and that is never going to happen.

I'm not going to share how I have reached my conclusions , because I believe that each one of us must seek the truth for ourselves .
All I will say is , good luck with your search .

Once you have seen the truth , everything else falls into place

Peace to all

Don't take this the wrong way, but since you won't reveal how it is you have come to your conclusion, and I can not be entirely happy for your realization; reaching a truth through false experiences is not in my eyes, necessarily a positive (I am not calling you a liar, or ignorant, I am merely speculating on all posibilities of paths that lead you to your conclusion).

However, that being said, it is good to see that none-the-less your mind has been opened.

Originally posted by iamanocean
...However, that being said, it is good to see that none-the-less your mind has been opened.

Belief in alien visitation does not necessarily mean having an open mind or a closed mind. Some people who have a blind belief in alien visitation could be just as close-minded as a stubborn skeptic.

Neither of them would consider alternate possibilities to explain an particular event other than what their pre-conceived notions tells them. I know some true skeptics who are more open minded than some blind alien visitation believers. Being open minded is a two-way street.

Originally posted by skem64
Human nature?

Could you explain what you mean by that?

Originally posted by WingedBull

Originally posted by skem64
Human nature?

Could you explain what you mean by that?

I mean it's Human Nature to be curious

Originally posted by tpg65
reply to post by Aprch

 

I completely agree .
The U.S government has an hidden agenda and it will stop at nothing to achieve it , even if it means killing it's own people .

Regards

I think "their" agenda is that we use the god damned oil until the people who own the oil decide they've had enough financial gain from that resource, then we can start on "their" advanced discoveries, as oil gets rarer and it's barrel price goes stratospheric they are gona end up owning every thing in the world before we get a new energy source.

Originally posted by subby
Conversely, I used to be a confirmed believer and subsequent investigation has changed me to a suspicious skeptic.
There are a lot of hoaxers and deluded people that can be very convincing. So how do we sort the falsehoods from the truths? Evidence, of course, which is what you are declining to provide.

Can you elaborate on this "subsequent investigation" that changed you in to a "suspicious skeptic".

As posted, I am a believer but to be fair, if anyone can convince me otherwise, I'm prepared to listen. But I fail to see how anyone can provide "evidence" of something that doesn't exist. Anyway, show me some of the stuff that changed your mind.

Originally posted by skem64
I mean it's Human Nature to be curious

But is jumping to a conclusion based on any number of pre-established biases really curiosity?

Originally posted by skem64

Originally posted by subby
Conversely, I used to be a confirmed believer and subsequent investigation has changed me to a suspicious skeptic.
There are a lot of hoaxers and deluded people that can be very convincing. So how do we sort the falsehoods from the truths? Evidence, of course, which is what you are declining to provide.

Can you elaborate on this "subsequent investigation" that changed you in to a "suspicious skeptic".

As posted, I am a believer but to be fair, if anyone can convince me otherwise, I'm prepared to listen. But I fail to see how anyone can provide "evidence" of something that doesn't exist. Anyway, show me some of the stuff that changed your mind.

Well, visiting this very forum regularly provides enough evidence of hoaxes and delusions.
Plus, it's a subject I've been researching for 20 years or so. I've also worked as a mental health professional for 10 years, so have a good knowledge of delusional thinking. Asking for solid proof seems only sensible to me; extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, after all.

UFO Watchdog has some interesting information.

The 'Hoax' forum here is a good read too.

Originally posted by subby

Originally posted by skem64

Originally posted by subby
Conversely, I used to be a confirmed believer and subsequent investigation has changed me to a suspicious skeptic.
There are a lot of hoaxers and deluded people that can be very convincing. So how do we sort the falsehoods from the truths? Evidence, of course, which is what you are declining to provide.

Can you elaborate on this "subsequent investigation" that changed you in to a "suspicious skeptic".

As posted, I am a believer but to be fair, if anyone can convince me otherwise, I'm prepared to listen. But I fail to see how anyone can provide "evidence" of something that doesn't exist. Anyway, show me some of the stuff that changed your mind.

Well, visiting this very forum regularly provides enough evidence of hoaxes and delusions.
Plus, it's a subject I've been researching for 20 years or so. I've also worked as a mental health professional for 10 years, so have a good knowledge of delusional thinking. Asking for solid proof seems only sensible to me; extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, after all.

UFO Watchdog has some interesting information.

The 'Hoax' forum here is a good read too.

Would you apply this thinking to the millions of Christians around the world ? and if not , why not ?

Originally posted by tpg65

Originally posted by subby

Originally posted by skem64

Originally posted by subby
Conversely, I used to be a confirmed believer and subsequent investigation has changed me to a suspicious skeptic.
There are a lot of hoaxers and deluded people that can be very convincing. So how do we sort the falsehoods from the truths? Evidence, of course, which is what you are declining to provide.

Can you elaborate on this "subsequent investigation" that changed you in to a "suspicious skeptic".

As posted, I am a believer but to be fair, if anyone can convince me otherwise, I'm prepared to listen. But I fail to see how anyone can provide "evidence" of something that doesn't exist. Anyway, show me some of the stuff that changed your mind.

Well, visiting this very forum regularly provides enough evidence of hoaxes and delusions.
Plus, it's a subject I've been researching for 20 years or so. I've also worked as a mental health professional for 10 years, so have a good knowledge of delusional thinking. Asking for solid proof seems only sensible to me; extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, after all.

UFO Watchdog has some interesting information.

The 'Hoax' forum here is a good read too.

Would you apply this thinking to the millions of Christians around the world ? and if not , why not ?

I am an atheist.